[eCKo`Tazerenix]

Hi guys, I'm a mid masters NA, mid diamond KR Protoss and I can't for the life of me deal with mutalisks. Once I get onto 2 base it almost feels impossible to move out of my base. Once I secure a third the zerg constantly is counter attacking and harassing with mutas in different places, in one game i had archons everywhere and still couldn't leave my base.

Does anyone have any pointers on what I can do against mutalisks? I feel like i'll just have to open single or double stargate every single game against zerg as mutalisks are so strong.

Here are 3 replays:
http://drop.sc/52956
http://drop.sc/52955
http://drop.sc/52954

Please and thank you.

[zeffrin]

I'm lower level player than you, but I reckon that just means you can get storm out much faster than I do, and you'll need to tell me whether that's before the mutas overwhelm the stalkers and can take on cannons... but...

I love storm for zerg, muta wont hang around long if you're storming them, zerglings and banelings become useless. Of course I make error sometimes and get HT for hydras but then they actually get tonnes of roaches and I can't deal with them.

So on the tangent we find ourselves... I'm going to stop doing that, now I need to figure a good balance between sentries and getting to storm

[eCKo`Tazerenix]

Yea, I think i need to tech to storm a lot quicker, I think one of my main problems is staying on stalkers for far too long. I also feel like I might need to get stargate before robo :/

[nGenLight]

You need 3 bases against Muta.

If you opened gateway/robo. You need to take an early third (9min) and prepare for mutas at every base with cannons before the Mutas arrive.

If you opened stargate, just pump phoenixes, take a later third (12-13min).

Quick Comments

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[mGGSouth]

Copy and paste at multiple forums FTW!

[stalking you]

pretty much Light just owned this thread

[TCPNishy]

Even if you do pump phoenixes after opening Stargate... Can't a zerg overwhelm the phoenixes if they are putting all their econ into mutas? Yes you can micro them to death but also committing heavily to phoenixes could leave you open to roach/hydra tech switches?

But I'm guessing this is relying on keeping a zerg contained with the phoenixes and not allowing a 3rd base and cutting their drone count in order to hinder their ability to be able to support such a tech switch.

[mGGDaedalus]

Originally Posted by Nishy

Even if you do pump phoenixes after opening Stargate... Can't a zerg overwhelm the phoenixes if they are putting all their econ into mutas? Yes you can micro them to death but also committing heavily to phoenixes could leave you open to roach/hydra tech switches?

But I'm guessing this is relying on keeping a zerg contained with the phoenixes and not allowing a 3rd base and cutting their drone count in order to hinder their ability to be able to support such a tech switch.

Only if you wait for the zerg to mass like 20 mutas, if you pump phoenixes and move out fairly quickly they'll never get enough mutas to deal with the phoenix, and with your phoenix speed they can't retreat. And that's a lot of gas wasted for the zerg

[TCPNishy]

Solid point Josh, that helps a lot

[nGenLight]

@Nishy: Just drop another stargate?

Note: if you do open gateway/robo, make sure you rush hallucination right after warp gate tech to see exactly what they are doing before the 9 minute mark (key expansion timing).

[thomas]

if you open forge fast expand into stargate straight away its hard to deal with as zerg who goes muta ling. but theres a timing you have to push with gateway units after the 4 initial phoenixes or Void rays

[JordsKeen]

-Its 12 pheonix to stop muta ever working isn't it?
-Light, how do you know they are going muta?.... halluc scouts early spire and you go make 3rd base right away?
-What time do zerg get lair for muta?

[faithHunter]

Originally Posted by xGKingLight

You need 3 bases against Muta.

If you opened gateway/robo. You need to take an early third (9min) and prepare for mutas at every base with cannons before the Mutas arrive.

If you opened stargate, just pump phoenixes, take a later third (12-13min).

How many cannons should you make in each expansion? Do you make 2 cannons for each 4 mutas or something? And is it better to just leave a couple of stalkers and/or Archons in each expansion to deny muta harass?

[xGKingdelete]

Originally Posted by neozxa

How many cannons should you make in each expansion? Do you make 2 cannons for each 4 mutas or something? And is it better to just leave a couple of stalkers and/or Archons in each expansion to deny muta harass?

there isnt really a specific amount of cannons you need because there's a point where no reasonable number of cannons can stop mutas on their own. at that point they just buy time for your main army to scare the mutas away. i usually dont go past 5-7 cannons near each mineral line.

you can think of cannons as a mineral sink. since you'll be going for blink stalkers, archons, high templar, you're going to have a lot of extra minerals. use them to rebuild probes and to build gateways and cannons.

i personally leave one ht with some cannons at each mineral line to defend.

[inFeZa]

Light knows best.

Also i like to get a few archons near my cannons too as the mutas stack to kill cannons quickly and archons are devistating against stacked mutas. one shock can change their health colour drastically.
then later on i like to leave a templar to have a storm ready try and catch them off guard.

Another thing i like doing is if i go robo i look for any signs of mutas ie fast lair, a lot of lings etc to prepare for it because going robo and pushing out while a flock of mutas goes for your main is not nice.

[FaDeNotoriouS]

Do what light said

and storm/blink/archon comps own mutas so easily just use hulluc to scout spire then tech to temps asap

[syfChadMann]

Poo build yo.