[MCKL]

hi, im having problems with Mass muta, and Baneling.
i do understand most terran go for, biomech like Marines and Tanks
but the amount of Muta harassing my Main. how do i actually stop that?
do i get Thor and turret each in my base to stop?

and when i move on i got baneling in front of me..
should i go helions,thor and marauders? would that be good?
or would i improve in my turret and marines placement when i move on for a push?



thank you so much for all the info and tips given

[Aean(:]

Its best to include a replay, because you may be losing to something else (macro etc).
Upon moving out:
1 - Locate the enemy's army; you dont want to get caught off guard and have banelings/lings coming at you before your sieged
2 - Siege before you reach their creep - you never want to engage randomly on creep!
3 - Leap frog the tanks, unsiege one from the back and move it forward. Repeat
4 - When the engagement occurs, select your tanks and shift-attack the banelings

If they just outrun you it means you didnt do enough harassment or got way too behind in the eco.

*They wont harass you with their mutas if your attacking them
*If they have a large ball of mutas, keep a thor or two in your army. It prevents them from target firing your siege tanks
*Try prevent them from getting a mass of mutas in the first place

Ofcourse im assuming your low-tier. Im pretty bad at tvz anyway :{

Quick Comments

nirvAnA:

Aean version 2.0 ftw?!

[pikk0n]

Hmm... wouldn't it be a good time to counter? A thor and some rines + lots of turrets can keep the mutas busy long enough while you creep your army forward. This is assuming of course that you aren't VERY VERY far behind in terms of macro and econ. In most games where the zerg harrasses the terran with mass mutas, the mutas are forced to fall back when the terran's army has pushed far enough and has killed most of the zerg's ground forces. The ground army will be significantly smaller if the mutas are in such large numbers so your tank creep can be done in a more aggressive manner. As long as the orbital commands survive, mules' OPness should save ya and get you back on even terms.

[DemisodaSPR]

Add thors. Idra says so.

[PiG]

Hi MCKL you should really add a replay to your post so people can give you proper advice! This is an incredibly complex game and to properly describe everything happening you would need to write an essay. Chances are there's alot of things you aren't noticing!

To add replays look on the right hand side of any sc2sea page and find the Replays archive from here you can follow a few links to upload your replays and then post the link in your thread!

Chances are there are problems with your earlygame letting the zerg get ahead in economy. You really need to pressure zerg players and macro properly yourself to stop this happening. Make sure you are never:

1) Supply blocked
2) Queing up more than 2-3 units in a single building (4-6 with reactor)- add more production instead
3) Never stop building scvs! (up to 30/base, max 80)

Personally in TvZ I like to just have 1 turret in each mineral line and try to finish the game with a tank marine push around the 10-15 minute mark. If it goes longer then yes I will leave a thor in my main base and build many turrets! As long as you always have a turret in each mineral line by 11:00 you should be ok! But you have to attack before they get too many mutalisks!

[nextbigthing]

in my tvz match up as terran, i usually go 1:1:1 build and my main objective is nv let the zerg player rest and drone up...

i only scan a zerg base on my 3rd available scan or after my starport to c wad hes teching up to... after tt, i will juz place more rax or factories depending on wad im facing... if i c banelings and c him having many spine crawlers and queens or roaches, i usually go bf hellions and some marauders( a few marines to kill off overlords)..

while i push out, i will get a viking and clear the skies for overlords... after my 1st push, be it alot of dmg done( usually it is) or very little, i will go 2-3 medvex drop, 1 full of hellions at the main, 2 wif mm to the natural as a distraction mainly( as i always assume his armies will be nearer to his natural...

usually dis will end the game but when the zerg player holds off, push out wif ur marine hellion tanks which u had macro up while doing the drops... rmb to take a 3rd as if dis preassure doesnt works in higher game play, u can build more rax and factories to up ur preassure...

of cos throughout the game u hav to hav ur game sense and scout for example hidden expansions, etc which i will nt mention..,

ps: im high lvl plat and recently i juz familiarised myself wif dis build and its giving me nice winning streaks=)

glhf!

[ke_ivan]

I think what the Aean(: said is absolutely correct. In mid-game, depending on the unit composition you might want to add a few turrets (i usually have 2-3) and a few marines in the mineral line. Thors help against big waves of mutas, but aren't as mobile so you will have to park one at a good location to defend your base. i almost always go marine/tank/medivac with one or two thors.

When dealing with banelings, you should have stim and your siege tanks in siege mode in the correct position. Stutter step back behind the tanks or just run behind them and you should be ok. if they catch you unsieged though...

On a side note: is the thor 250mm cannon a good alternative to siege tanks? it's not used a lot. Jinro used it against immortals, but I have this feeling that those cannons do massive amounts of damage to roach/ling. They have a range of 7, considered spell damage and act as a sort of slow fungal growth for terran (stun ability) and benefits from vehicle weapons upgrades. All three races have spell casters that negate 250 mm strike cannon. Wouldn't it be useful to stun say stalkers or roaches and let your marines kill them? Just Sayin'... lol i'm so sorry i said that (reference Day9 joke).

[Aean(:]

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=241247 This will probably help

[ROOT`iaguz]

If it's Muta/ling/bane you're having troubles with, well that's just standard play. It's not countered by thinking "well I'll get THIS unit and THAT unit instead, whoa". It's countered by playing marine/tank/medivac like a ******* boss.

You have to do 10,0000 things correct in this matchup all at once, like constant production, upgrades, proper timings, micro, positioning, multitasking, keeping one eyeball firmly planted on the minimap so you don't miss your army getting mobbed by random zergs, dropping occasionally (maybe), expanding, building all your workers, building all your supply depots, splitting tanks so they don't all get owned by banes, splitting all your marines so they don't get owned by banes, keeping your shit tight so the muta flock doesn't randomly pick off tanks, remembering to expand, clearing creep, clearing towers, knowing where the Zerg's army is so you can make as much ground as possible before you have to start siege-leap frogging, understanding positioning, understanding when he's going to get hive tech and arsefuck you with it, dealing with infestors properly, adding more structures, not losing all your shit, shift clicking your siege tanks on his banes to clear them fast so you don't lose all your marines.

All at the same time basically. There's probably something gone wrong with that if you're having trouble with standard play.

[Nemo]

As Aean(: and PiG said, you should post a replay. Without it and on such a standard strategy, people can only give you a "guide" that you can found on many places already. Morover, when playing classic that's the execution that will determine the outcome and your execution can only be really seen in a replay.

I would have gladly looked at your problem but for now I cannot add anything at what have been said already.

[Dox]

99% of the time I lose this matchup because I get caught out with my tanks unsieged moving across the map. It requires so much goddamn patience, it drives me insane. I find the best way to cover that ground is by doing a half-assed drop to lure the Zerg back into his base before you set up shop outside.

[ke_ivan]

Originally Posted by Dox

99% of the time I lose this matchup because I get caught out with my tanks unsieged moving across the map. It requires so much goddamn patience, it drives me insane. I find the best way to cover that ground is by doing a half-assed drop to lure the Zerg back into his base before you set up shop outside.

Agree with dox. To move forward, you need to do something for them to move away. At lower levels, our army management is probably crap, so it's actually easier to move armies through drops and harass. Once you drop, you should prepare your army to move forward, but keep eyes out for a ling counter attack.

[Rolex]

Make sure you're ready for the mutas. Scan/scout to see where your opponent's lair tech is at. The initial harrass usually consists of about 5 mutas and 1 turret and your marines should cover this. As the muta flock grows so should your air defense - 3 to 4 turrets for 8-10 mutas and a thor for muta numbers of +10. The challenging part is knowing when and how much to invest - keep your eye on the number of mutas.

Zerg will always engage you while you're in transit because its an instant win for them. Just like all the other posts have mentioned, take your time. Scan the area in front of you if you need to and send small groups of marines to clear creep. It's difficult for any race to break a terran line so make sure you're set up and positioned well.

[Malik]

Originally Posted by MCKL

hi, im having problems with Mass muta, and Baneling.
i do understand most terran go for, biomech like Marines and Tanks
but the amount of Muta harassing my Main. how do i actually stop that?
do i get Thor and turret each in my base to stop?

and when i move on i got baneling in front of me..
should i go helions,thor and marauders? would that be good?
or would i improve in my turret and marines placement when i move on for a push?



thank you so much for all the info and tips given

the main thing is to prevent the zerg from gaining an economic lead which would allow them to embark on this kind of strategy as the zerg dosent have enough gas to make mutalisks in large numbers as well as banelings. I cant really say much without a replay but I would look towards the early game as you may be letting the zerg get too much of an economic advantage meaning that the trouble isnt the muta bling composition it is that the zergs economic position allows them to make units at a faster rate than you can. As the TvZ/ZvT matchup is effectively a battle of attrition (i.e. the game is usually decided by relative economic positions and the ability to make units) though this is not a universal creed.

So heres wat i want you to do go to a reply and watch it but look at how much pressure u put on ur opponent in the first 10 minutes of the game and then look at how many bases and drones vs scvs there is. If the zerg has more than a 1 base advantage and has a large number of workers (or a big stack of money ^^) then you are behind and the issue is that u havent placed sufficent pressure on the zerg and you units that they acctually make are irrelevent (unless they go for mass drone = loss).