[Cute]

We know this can be subjective so for now its based on the aggregated ranking of the top 5 Code S players.
We're working on setting up an objective scoring system for next year based solely on results.

Text: Kez
Photos: Dot
Design / Coding: Cute

[ToRSpookToR]

i have probs missed it but how do you work out the power ranks?

[ROCCAT_Savior]

Fairly accurate for the most part but you've left out some really strong players such as Poker who I would rate above a few of the players in that top 10. Good work though, very nice layout, obvious that you've put a lot of work into it.

Also pet needs to be higher

Quick Comments

	ToRSpookToR:	yeah for sure
	iM tgun:	Given it's a year-in power ranking, that affected decisions of pet

[FlashDrakE]

Originally Posted by Savior.777

Fairly accurate for the most part but you've left out some really strong players such as Poker who I would rate above a few of the players in that top 10. Good work though, very nice layout, obvious that you've put a lot of work into it.

Also pet needs to be higher

Agreed with pokerface, guy is really strong zvt and zvp. He hasn't had as many good tournament placings as these guys so I don't think he deserves to be in the top 10 yet though.

[nGenLight]

Guys who think players deserve to be placed higher must realise that this power rank is an objective view of the overall results/skill of the entire year 2012, not "Skill level right now". Guys like Pet would be way higher if he didn't bust out of no where towards the last quarter of 2012. Likewise someone like Pokerface's skill level is extremely high, but doesn't have the great results in important tournaments to show for it.

2013 is the year of Champi for HOTS. I've never even double clicked the HoTs icon on my desktop -_-

[iM MaFia]

STRONGLY Disagree with power ranks

Quick Comments

NOM:

what Mafia said :s

[SLCN.NXZ]

If I wrote this I would agree with every placing except perhaps Rossi, having not seen enough of him. Jazbas might've been on and off but simply by results he came through where it mattered. I think had pokerface not had to disappear for school he'd be here but he did so . He did have a strong mid 2012 and is coming back up again now but I think him, alongside a few other players barely missed out. Also I think only people you could make an argument for pet being above is like... Light? And that's only for the end of the year, I don't know if there's an up and comer thing but he should get it.

But yeah power ranking are actually almost identical how I would do it, given input from other pros. Also pig came 2nd at acl Gold Coast, Mafia finished 5th/6th. (If I remember correctly). Says pig finished 5th in his write up.

EDIT: OOPS WHEN I SAID 2nd I MEANT THIRD!

[AuXCoolpuff]

The ranking is fair, can't wait too see next year

[nirvAnA]

Power Ranking was done by asking the 5 Code S players (glade,pig,mafia,tgun,light) for their top 10 list. Results were then aggregated by Kez who wrote the text for it. I think they are very accurate, closest spot was of course the #2 spot it could have gone to either pig or you. Kez probably based it on tournament results where PiG has a top 3 finish in every ACL this year? You should ask him about it.

Great job guys! Cute you are amazing!

Pet: http://www.sc2sea.com/showthread.php?t=5542

Quick Comments

ROOTPetraeus:

code s what?

[x5_dot]

Fantastic work Cute! The power ranks look spot on to me (though pig also got third at acl good coast :P). Loved the format and especially loved Tgun's description!

Also looking forward to seeing Part Two of the magazine

Quick Comments

Cute:

Thanks again for the photos!

[iM MaFia]

Originally Posted by nirvAnA

Power Ranking was done by asking the 5 Code S players (glade,pig,mafia,tgun,light) for their top 10 list. Results were then aggregated by Kez who wrote the text for it. I think they are very accurate, closest spot was of course the #2 spot it could have gone to either pig or you. Kez probably based it on tournament results where PiG has a top 3 finish in every ACL this year? You should ask him about it.

unless glade and pig both picked top 3 in this order 1. mg 2. pig 3. mafia then it would still be a tie so how u guys worked out that pig deserved 2nd is super biased

Quick Comments

	SLCN.NXZ:	pig put himself 1st
	TtSYF.tRoy:	Ofcourse PiG did ;) imo T5 accurate but i would place Mafia 2 PiG 3.
	nirvAnA:	I edited my previous post you quoted for more clarity

[breadfan]

I'm really looking forward to next year's power ranking results!

I think that generally, this is a pretty good top 10. And what it means is that next year, tournaments can be weighed by power (number and rank of power ranked players attending) and it will really become a solid ranking system.

[TheGentleman]

Ok so I'm goon to nip this one in the bud. The discussion on power ranks should be MOVED TO ANOTHER THREAD in the interest of keeping this one clean. I will start a new thread now for it seem as people wish to discuss it. Remember to keep the discussions in that thread civil.

Quick Comments

	iMSystem:	Don't
	Pandan:	That sounds like over-moderation 101

[iM SundeR]

A discussion about power ranks in a thread named Power Ranks should be moved to another thread?

On a discussion forum, sometimes it's best to just have people talk things out uninterrupted, and moderate anything that isn't civil and might be offensive.

UHF you've gone to a lot of effort, good work.

[TheGentleman]

This I see is more as an announcement thread and is on front page news so it would be good to keep it clean. But people have gotten passionate about this topic in chat already so I see this move as necessary to keep this thread clean.

I'll have a chat to nirvana later and if he disagrees with my move I'll revert it.

[Stallion]

the one thing i have about that UHF list is how much points was eachworth cos if someone else chose how many points per events if could finish in a different order. As it is i don't see why people are making a big deal about it, its simply peoples points of view for example my top ten wuld be glade,pig=mafia, tgun,light,ninja,rossi,jaz,what zergs am i missing doesn't matter, my point is pig and mafia have both played very well this year and both done some cool things im sure everyone has there own opionion on who they think is better the fact is it doesn't matter, its whoevers better on the next day they play, a cricket saying i like is" you're only as good as your last innings"

ty dot

Quick Comments

	x5_dot:	"you're only as good as your last innings" damn straight!
	ROOTPetraeus:	so bm

[iM tgun]

Originally Posted by xGKingStallion

the one thing i have about that UHF list is how much points was eachworth cos if someone else chose how many points per events if could finish in a different order. As it is i don't see why people are making a big deal about it, its simply peoples points of view for example my top ten wuld be glade,pig=mafia, tgun,light,ninja,rossi,jaz,what zergs am i missing doesn't matter, my point is pig and mafia have both played very well this year and both done some cool things im sure everyone has there own opionion on who they think is better the fact is it doesn't matter, its whoevers better on the next day they play, a cricket saying i like is" you're only as good as your last innings"

ty dot

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Bradman

I guess he was shit.

Quick Comments

	x5_dot:	dudes who retired when they're legends don't count :P
	breadfan:	lol
	Pandan:	Best anecdotal reference

[iM SundeR]

Originally Posted by xGKingStallion

the one thing i have about that UHF list is how much points was eachworth cos if someone else chose how many points per events if could finish in a different order. As it is i don't see why people are making a big deal about it, its simply peoples points of view for example my top ten wuld be glade,pig=mafia, tgun,light,ninja,rossi,jaz,what zergs am i missing doesn't matter, my point is pig and mafia have both played very well this year and both done some cool things im sure everyone has there own opionion on who they think is better the fact is it doesn't matter, its whoevers better on the next day they play, a cricket saying i like is" you're only as good as your last innings"

ty dot

I just want to point out that whenever I watch a tournament, I go in with preconceived notions on who is better, and I formulate those in my own special way, based on performances, little intricacies that other people may or may not have picked up on, just like everyone else does.

Let's say we're talking about Life vs MVP, to avoid anything SEA-based. I went into that believing that MVP was the better player. If Life was to win, it would be an upset, but it wouldn't mean he's a better player. He just played better on the day (barely) and won. I still don't think Life is a 'better player' than MVP, although you can make a judgement both ways. There are no facts, because there are way too many variables.

Cos in the end, it's just like, your opinion man.

(this isn't meant to be a potshot at you stally, it's just the whole last innings is all that counts thing that i can't get down with)

Quick Comments

	RuineD:	u arent allowed to have an opinion or bias when u rank bro didnt u get the memmo
	Stallion:	excatly
	NOM:	I agree with this,

[Stallion]

@tgun lol yea :P you know what i mean tho hahahaha

@sunder excatly

@pet sorry forgot ahhaha i knew it was more zergs :P

[nGenLight]

NXZ: You can be sure me and Rossi would not shy away from a 1v1 with Pet to prove our worth. I like that you make a case for Pokerface not being in the top 10, when many people have many other commitment issues - Rossi goes to uni full-time doing a double degree. I have full-time work and spent the first 5 months of this year not even touching StarCraft. This means absolutely nothing. It isn't a "potential list" or "what could of list" it is a 2012 power rank. You might aswell throw iceiceice as #1 if it is a potential list.

Quick Comments

ROOTPetraeus:

k bring it

[Baldie]

Great work team for knocking this up! The coding is amazing!

It's a great start towards something which can only improve and I have no doubt with the power ranking points coming into play in 2013 and an expansion of point allocation in tournaments throughout SEA, next year will be a lot easier to work out

[nGenLight]

Iaguz and Rossi did most of their damage at the start of the year.

I did my damage in the middle of the year, which just luckily enoughso happen to be the 3 most important tournaments of 2012 for SEA - ACL Melbourne + WCS.

Tgun/Mafia/MG/Pig was great all around.

Ninja making abit of noise at start of year but got significant notice towards the latter half.

Petraeus exploded at the end of the year.

[SLCN.NXZ]

Originally Posted by iM Light

NXZ: You can be sure me and Rossi would not shy away from a 1v1 with Pet to prove our worth. I like that you make a case for Pokerface not being in the top 10, when many people have many other commitment issues - Rossi goes to uni full-time doing a double degree. I have full-time work and spent the first 5 months of this year not even touching StarCraft. This means absolutely nothing. It isn't a "potential list" or "what could of list" it is a 2012 power rank. You might aswell throw iceiceice as #1 if it is a potential list.

I don't understand what you getting at, I am not insinuating that you guys are bad players, I said poker could not be in top 10 if he didn't play for a lot of the year, despite his strong results at events like ACL Sydney and various cityhunters. Me saying that the only player pet could be above being you is BECAUSE you're working full time now, same with rossi studying at uni. I agree with the rankings, I agree that you should be higher than pet. I did not suggest any changes to this list other than that I haven't seen enough of rossi to comment. The pokerface thing was mostly about activeness, you guys still participate in tournaments, poker didnt during HSC. I apologize if you took my post the wrong way, I meant no offense to you, or rossi by it. No need to argue about nothing .

[nGenLight]

I'm just angry you decided to single my name out, and called my placing into question.

However, you make much more sense in the post above.

It is sad because at one point me and Poker was talking about how we forfeited like 5-10 tournaments in a spam of 2 months. Usually I'm either free on the qualifier day or the tournament day but not both - either being in Adelaide or working. This makes it extremely tough to be active in tournaments. But I wouldn't have done anything otherwise - I don't get much of a chance to go see my GF as it is.

What is worse is that I've sacrificed alot at work after I started playing StarCraft II again, and recently got some Time & Attendence councelling, which means that, the rate of me joining tournaments is going nowhere but down.

I tend to agree with you I'm probably going to be overtaken by a few if this power ranking was done at a latter time. But not right now, I still got so much 1A in me to fight for my spot.

Quick Comments

SLCN.NXZ:

Yeha juggling full time work and sc2 is no easy feat, its amazing that you've managed it so far

[SLCN.NXZ]

Originally Posted by iM Light

I'm just angry you decided to single my name out, and called my placing into question.

However, you make much more sense in the post above.

It is sad because at one point me and Poker was talking about how we forfeited like 5-10 tournaments in a spam of 2 months. Usually I'm either free on the qualifier day or the tournament day but not both - either being in Adelaide or working. This makes it extremely tough to be active in tournaments. But I wouldn't have done anything otherwise - I don't get much of a chance to go see my GF as it is.

What is worse is that I've sacrificed alot at work after I started playing StarCraft II again, and recently got some Time & Attendence councelling, which means that, the rate of me joining tournaments is going nowhere but down.

I tend to agree with you I'm probably going to be overtaken by a few if this power ranking was done at a latter time. But not right now, I still got so much 1A in me to fight for my spot.

Yeah I was just referring to savior's post that pet should be higher. In which I was trying to say that pet shouldn't be higher and if he was it would have to be a right now power rank, not a whole year power rank. I brought you and to a lesser extent rossi up because you two are the next guys on the list who are playing less due to other commitments (well rossi been doing uni for a while but you know what I mean). This isn't necessarily a bad thing, just something that is happening. So eventually the younger guys who have more time to practice will become stronger but taking this whole year into account, I think you guys definitely deserve your placement

Quick Comments

	nGenLight:	I"M JOINING NIRVANA IN RETIREMENT HOME
	nirvAnA:	hi

[x5.Revenant]

You sillycakes.

Quick Comments

	SLCN.NXZ:	Revving it up
	AvPoker:	this guy gets it
	ROOTPetraeus:	<3 rev
	nGenLight:	go commando roll on the grass more mate!!!!
	Asrathiel:	Rev!!! Still gonna hug you when I get the chance :P

[NOM]

jesus
WHY NO TARGA!?

Quick Comments

x5_Namakaye:

I think priority went to native SEAsions

[iM tgun]

Originally Posted by NOM

jesus
WHY NO TARGA!?

He kind of lives in europe?

[ToRsupapower]

mafia #1 he plays so much

[TAminimat]

Originally Posted by iM tgun

He kind of lives in europe?

He kind of played in a **** ton of SEA tournaments?

[SLCN.Wally]

Originally Posted by TAminimat

He kind of played in a **** ton of SEA tournaments?

Didn't kingkong do that as well? Still doesn't make him Australian.(idk how long he has been living here though)

[TAminimat]

Originally Posted by pX'Wally

Didn't kingkong do that as well? Still doesn't make him Australian.(idk how long he has been living here though)

He has been here for less than two months and SEA doesn't = Australian.

[SLCN.NXZ]

Originally Posted by TAminimat

He has been here for less than two months and SEA doesn't = Australian.

Tell me, do you include huk in your Korean power ranks? or do you consider him Canadian? I'm not gonna post after this but is having targa on a meaningless list when he no longer plays in the sea scene that important? No, didn't think so.

[TAminimat]

Originally Posted by aLtNXZ

important?

I don't see the word important anywhere apart from your post. If huk won a Code S why wouldn't you put him into a Korean power rank?

Quick Comments

SLCN.NXZ:

Would you put something in massive font if you didn't consider it important?

[iM tgun]

Originally Posted by TAminimat

He kind of played in a **** ton of SEA tournaments?

If you saw UHF's graph of results, he was actually around 7th-10th (can't remember specifics). He also doesn't live or participate in the SEA scene much, and we were told not to include him. The same is true for KingKong -- he only came into SEA in the last few months and we were told not to include him.

[SLCN.NXZ]

Originally Posted by TAminimat

I don't see the word important anywhere apart from your post. If huk won a Code S why wouldn't you put him into a Korean power rank?

I wouldn't, I would put him in the top 10 foreigner list, just like id put violet in the top 10 kr list not the top 10 foreigner list.

Quick Comments

	iVnStinger:	Makes sense
	breadfan:	top 1 foreigner list

[TAminimat]

Originally Posted by aLtNXZ

I wouldn't, I would put him in the top 10 foreigner list, just like id put violet in the top 10 kr list not the top 10 foreigner list.

Right so winning a korean tournament would put you on top of NA power rankings..

[NvRossi]

pretty solid list for the most part! Some might not be happy with a 7th but tbh i am quite proud of it.

Quick Comments

	SLCN.NXZ:	yeah 7th is quite an achievement! Especially for a not zerg player haha!
	ROOTPetraeus:	better than 8th ^_^

[Cyanide]

suggestion:

make a list that TRIES to LIMIT bias as much as possible

e.g. Assign EQUAL values to things such as

Tourny winnings
tournies joined
tourny placements
popular vote
ladder ranking in say (NA or KR)
Giant Slayer points (points given for defeating/taking games off international t1/2 players in tournaments)
etc.

the more data we can pull from various things, we're limiting problems like whether
Person A winning 20 $20 tournaments in SEA
should be placed ahead of
Person B who won one LAN that paid out $500
or the other way round

[RuineD]

i dont think u can really limit bias or opinion with something like this.

i mean this is a stretch but the problem with that is the lans might be quite small and meaningless whereas a big tournament win is worth a lot more. for example, revival has won like 50+ playhem dailies. but compare that to say one MLG win or IEM win, which would u place ahead? i know thats not SEA but similar problems could arise.

[breadfan]

Originally Posted by RuineD

i dont think u can really limit bias or opinion with something like this.

i mean this is a stretch but the problem with that is the lans might be quite small and meaningless whereas a big tournament win is worth a lot more. for example, revival has won like 50+ playhem dailies. but compare that to say one MLG win or IEM win, which would u place ahead? i know thats not SEA but similar problems could arise.

Not at first. Over time, you can, but you need to start somewhere. The power ranking becomes more accurate as time goes on and rankings can be adjusted based on results alone

[Delraich]

Originally Posted by Cyanide

suggestion:

make a list that TRIES to LIMIT bias as much as possible

e.g. Assign EQUAL values to things such as

Tourny winnings
tournies joined
tourny placements
popular vote
ladder ranking in say (NA or KR)
Giant Slayer points (points given for defeating/taking games off international t1/2 players in tournaments)
etc.

the more data we can pull from various things, we're limiting problems like whether
Person A winning 20 $20 tournaments in SEA
should be placed ahead of
Person B who won one LAN that paid out $500
or the other way round

I like this idea. I wonder if something like this would work (random numbers but I am just trying to get the idea across):
Each small/ non specific tournament that resulted in $50 or less = 1 point, $51-100 = 2 points, etc.
Specific tournament(s) (e.g. a high profile one) = 5 points.
Player vote average score: 1st place = 5 points, 2nd place = 4 points, 3rd place = 3 points, etc.
Slaying a high end player (e.g. Violet/ Huk) in a tournament = 3 points

Each player then submits their annual performance with a total score. Highest number wins.

[NvRossi]

i've been around a lot longer then you Pet ^^

[ROOTPetraeus]

i wasnt complaining....

Quick Comments

NvRossi:

twas just a casual response!

[breadfan]

Originally Posted by Delraich

I like this idea. I wonder if something like this would work (random numbers but I am just trying to get the idea across):
Each small/ non specific tournament that resulted in $50 or less = 1 point, $51-100 = 2 points, etc.
Specific tournament(s) (e.g. a high profile one) = 5 points.
Player vote average score: 1st place = 5 points, 2nd place = 4 points, 3rd place = 3 points, etc.
Slaying a high end player (e.g. Violet/ Huk) in a tournament = 3 points

Each player then submits their annual performance with a total score. Highest number wins.

You just assign a point value to the 10 power rankings. Tournaments are worth points equal to the number of power ranked players attending.

So Glade is worth 10 points, Pig worth 9, Mafia worth 8, tgun worth 7, and so on - just as an example, pick your points system as you please. If everyone attends, that tournament becomes worth more points (so an ACL national event is worth more than an ACL regional, etc). Just default any international tournaments to be worth maximum power ranking points, no need to mess around with bonus points for killing a "high end player", because not all "high end players" are an equal challenge. Just base it purely on placing.

[UHF]

I didn't really agree with the list provided, as I feel like it didn't capture the spirit of the whole year. I spent a while last night & this morning going over the years results, and i tried to find as many events as I could that had results listed. Here's what i did:

1. entered 40+ events listed in my spreadsheet.
2. SEA events only - if you think you can work out the international stuff, be my guest.
3. I gave each event (or event category) a points system for up to the top 10 placings.
4. I adjusted some events depending on certain circumstances. I also combined some quals/finals to make things both fairer and easier to work out.

ATTEMPT 1

The system i used was a fairly archaic way to rank things (basic descending numbers), and mightn't be the proper way, however the ranking seemed to turn out fairly accurate.

RANK	PLAYER	POINTS	# RESULTS
#1	mOOnGLaDe	231	18
#2	Mafia	189	20
#3	PiG	170	17
#4	tgun	142.5	15
#5	Light	75.5	6
#6	Rossi	70.5	15
#7	TargA	70	6
#8	JazBas	68.5	7
#9	iaguz	65	10
#10	Ninja	55	11
#11	YoonYJ	35	4
#12	SeNSei	30.5	5
#13	TechTron	30	5
#14	deth	25.5	5
#15	yang	23.5	4
#16	Pokerface	23	5
#17	Pinder	22.5	4
#18	Myuu	19.5	6
#19	KnighT	18	2
#19	Petraeus	18	3
#20	EdgE	17	2

ATTEMPT 2

I did a bit more digging and tried using a system similar to tennis, much bigger numbers and much larger gaps as move down the positions. I also changed the weight of some of the tournaments.

After the totals were tallied I divided by 10 to make the numbers more manageable (yes glade was on 19260).

RANK	PLAYER	POINTS	# RESULTS
#1	mOOnGLaDe	1926	18
#2	Mafia	1049	20
#3	PiG	1034	17
#4	tgun	623	15
#5	TargA	505	6
#6	JazBas	287	7
#7	Rossi	277	15
#8	Light	269	6
#9	iaguz	160	10
#10	Ninja	160	11
#11	deth	142	5
#12	EdgE	118	2
#13	TechTron	118	5
#14	SeNSei	108	5
#15	YoonYJ	87	4
#16	Petraeus	75	3
#17	Myuu	71	6
#18	KnighT	66	2
#18	Fourby	60	2
#20	Pokerface	56	5

OTHER STUFF

Either way the top 4 stayed the same, using to completely different scoring systems - and I'm happy to lock that in. I prefer the second attempt as it's based directly off an already used tournament system. Beyond that there is some variance, mainly due to how I grouped certain event types together. It still needs work, and the points system needs to have more variables that change each individual events weight (as no two events are the same). You would need to spend a LONG time really working out how to rank everything, because there are way too many variables to quickly put together lists.

A couple of names I took off the list as they had a single result all year round, which I felt defeats the spirit of making a list like this. The rest of the numbers are untampered. I included both TargA and Kingkong, as they were/are living & playing in our competitive scene.

I think this is as close to a proper 2012 list as you'll get, other than substituting your own event weights and adding in any events I missed. All i can say is if you want something for 2013, you should probably start working something out now.

Quick Comments

	breadfan:	I think you need to rank all tournaments equally to begin with, but otherwise nice
	NvRossi:	impressive!
	nirvAnA:	best post in this thread so far

[Cyanide]

i think delraich kinda got what i was getting at.

note that i said LIMIT instead of ELIMINATE bias. The good thing about assigning equal value to all statistics is that you can get someone who wins one big tourny vs someone who wins 10 small ones on "equal" footing. obviously, this isn't ideal in that sense.

Ultimately, for every new statistic we pull from, we give everything else less weightage. Also, as time goes on, you'll see that the ranking will eventually even out for everyone who still plays competitively.

[Delraich]

Originally Posted by breadfan

You just assign a point value to the 10 power rankings. Tournaments are worth points equal to the number of power ranked players attending.

So Glade is worth 10 points, Pig worth 9, Mafia worth 8, tgun worth 7, and so on. If everyone attends, that tournament becomes worth more points (so an ACL national event is worth more than an ACL regional, etc). Just default any international tournaments to be worth maximum power ranking points, no need to mess around with bonus points for killing a "high end player", because not all "high end players" are an equal challenge. Just base it purely on placing.

Just thinking aloud, but how do you know Glade is rank 1 and worth 10 points, Pig is rank 2 and worth 9 points in the first place? It seems like you need a system to rank and then once you know that ranking you use this data to re rank? Maybe a variant on this idea could be to give the top 10 players a flat value of 10 points each? If each ranked player is worth points, how much is number 11 or 12 worth? I do like this concept/ approach, but I am struggling to see how it would assign the ranking scores correctly if the ranking of the top 10 is not clear in the beginning.

[breadfan]

Originally Posted by Delraich

Just thinking aloud, but how do you know Glade is rank 1 and worth 10 points, Pig is rank 2 and worth 9 points in the first place? It seems like you need a system to rank and then once you know that ranking you use this data to re rank? Maybe a variant on this idea could be to give the top 10 players a flat value of 10 points each? If each ranked player is worth points, how much is number 11 or 12 worth? I do like this concept/ approach, but I am struggling to see how it would assign the ranking scores correctly if the ranking of the top 10 is not clear in the beginning.

Yes, you base it on the current power rankings (or something else). I'm not talking about creating a power ranking here, I'm saying that to begin with, you can't be totally fair and accurate from the outset. The goal is to end up with a way to rank different tournaments against each other.

You have to accept that to begin with, there's a little bit of arbitrary assignment. Whether you do it by votes from players, equally rating all tournaments, or whatever, it doesn't matter. What matters is that you get a list. Once you have a list, it gains credibility in 2013 as tournaments can actually be compare, and players can move up and down with their results.

[ToRSpartaz]

Cute man that coding is fantastic I love it!

[iM MaFia]

finally a power rank that actually had some effort and thought process to it

Quick Comments

	ROOTPetraeus:	cry more plz
	SLCN.NXZ:	^
	FaDeBadger:	Someone has his panties in a twist

[TAEdgE]

hahaha 2 results reppin'

[nGenLight]

UHF is like Hollinger to basketball for SCII.

Based on his results... The biggest rivalries in SEA SCII by results are:

Mafia/Pig
Light/Rossi
Iaguz/Ninja

[nGenLight]

Also... where the **** is the Singaporians? AARON COME BACK!!!!

[Cyanide]

another thing to note. this is an ANZ power ranking list, understandably due to things like scene size etc.
perhaps there is a way to be more inclusive to other countries in the region. unfortunately they do not have something like ACL

Quick Comments

SLCN.Kez:

Show me all the online tournaments sg players won and ill glady put them above any of the others.

[x5.RunaMoK]

power rankings suck.
end of discussion

[Eddie]

Strong list. Order is always going to depend upon individual opinion when there's no set system in place to judge. Good job i thought.

Originally Posted by Cyanide

another thing to note. this is an ANZ power ranking list, understandably due to things like scene size etc.
perhaps there is a way to be more inclusive to other countries in the region. unfortunately they do not have something like ACL

Well for online events, 2013 will have SEA power rankings. Major SEA online tournament ranking system. Masters Cup + others coming together.

[UHF]

I was going to try and include every country in the region, but the amount of time I'd need to sink into doing that would be ridiculous (it could be done though!). The ANZ group was the simplest to put together.

This table is about as unbiased as I could be. I simply got the results, weighed the events, and output the numbers. The only way it's skewed, is if my event weights are off (which I don't think they are, or not much by much) - or if I've missed events (which is possible, but there is only so much time I can put into trawling for events).

The one thing I have seen though is a big shift in the mid-tier, simply from the movement of players (retiring, going inactive, new players coming in). Also the lower tier, of where breakouts look like they might occur, but then fizzle out. It's fairly interesting to look at, and I might look at expanding it for 2013.

[breadfan]

Originally Posted by UHF

I was going to try and include every country in the region, but the amount of time I'd need to sink into doing that would be ridiculous (it could be done though!). The ANZ group was the simplest to put together.

This table is about as unbiased as I could be. I simply got the results, weighed the events, and output the numbers. The only way it's skewed, is if my event weights are off (which I don't think they are, or not much by much) - or if I've missed events (which is possible, but there is only so much time I can put into trawling for events).

The one thing I have seen though is a big shift in the mid-tier, simply from the movement of players (retiring, going inactive, new players coming in). Also the lower tier, of where breakouts look like they might occur, but then fizzle out. It's fairly interesting to look at, and I might look at expanding it for 2013.

How did you weight the events? I don't think it's possible to do initially, there has to be some arbitrary assignment surely?

[UHF]

Originally Posted by breadfan

How did you weight the events? I don't think it's possible to do initially, there has to be some arbitrary assignment surely?

Yes the initial weight for the 1st event was, but there really is no other way to do it. I picked 3 events (ACL regional, ACL regional final, ACL online) and got standardized weights for each of them. That gave me something to work on for other events bigger or smaller. After this, I had a look at prize pools, participation numbers, the actual player pool in some cases, invite vs open bracket, etc to find an appropriate weight class. Weighing events against each other is fairly tricky, as each has equal opportunity - which I also think is important.

FYI - the events i used were basically between WCS Oceania and Masters Cup level.

Quick Comments

breadfan:

Ah I see, makes sense

[iVnStinger]

I think having a top 10 without numbering would fix the problem. From what I've read no one has a problem with anyone in the top 10 list atm. Apart from the fact that TargA isn't in it.

This is how I feel about that; there are 2 ways to go about it:

1. We could form the list purely off SEA based tournaments. Giving people like KingKong and TargA potential to be in the list. The problem I have with that is then using that we could say someone like Leenock would be in the top 10 NA power rankings for winning MLGs. Also players could've played in more foreign tournaments, yet they wouldn't be taken into account because we are basing this only on SEA based tourneys.

2. We could form the list based off ALL tournaments results, but only using actual SEA players (citizens) . E.g. tourney results from team Nv who went all the way to the US for MLG. That way we keep it strictly for SEA residents and we all get every tournament result for each individual player taken into consideration.

Personally I feel the second one is better. But hey, we all have our different opinions.

My conclusion, just remove numbering in the top 10 list and everyone should be happy.

Quick Comments

	Cyanide:	it's called ranking for a reason
	breadfan:	Power... list?
	FaDeBadger:	No thanks, it's a ranking

[aLtShortizz]

Ffs. Everytime something like this comes along, be it the power rank or last years 2011 awards, some one has to have their ego bruised. Its just a bloody article/award made by someone whose willing to put in the effort to provide content that most of us enjoy. There's no reward or prize, just ego and e-prestige. I said this last year and I'll say it again, make ur own god damn list if ur so upset about it, but don't farkig
Call this stupid or retarded. This was made by members of the sc2sea community who took time and effort in researching and asking various opinions.

I enjoyed reading the article and loved how their designed the power rank page, I'm sure most of us do and would like to see more of these awards / rankings. So again if u think it's stupid or unfair, go die in a fire.

EDIT: Great job on the article btw, was a great read!

Quick Comments

	nirvAnA:	that was really well said - except the die in the fire part lol!!
	Stallion:	what that bryan said
	fray`Alpha:	agreed

[SLCN.Kez]

Gl hf adding the results of EVERY tournament in SEA for a year to get an aggregate of points+placings and everything else you need to construct a top 10 list based purely of points and results in tournaments throughout an entire year. UHF did a great job but he says many times that he didnt do every tournament, and he also jumbled a few together and weighed different tournaments differently, which are all biased, arbitrary points of data and therefore invalid for anything statistically of importance. He did a great job and his hard work should be noted, but that list doesn't prove a whole lot. You can't accept some points of data (ie. which tournaments should "count") and not some others and then create a list and say "these are the top 10". The very nature of doing so is only providing arbitrary numbers to a points system that generally denotes who will be in the top 20.
That being said, when I wrote the article I didn't do very much research, as I knew who placed where in what big tournaments, coupled with the top 5 players opinions (their own 1-10 rank) to come up with this power rank, and I feel it captures the scene FOR THE WHOLE YEAR pretty darn accurately, and I'd like to see someone come up with something better.

So, tl;dr.
You're never going to come up with something 100% objective as it's to hard to get every single tournaments results+data, and leaving out tournaments is biased in itself.
Yes it is based a lot on my + top 5 'code s' opinion, which is how players rankings/seeds have been done forever, so sometimes things get messed up a lil (but i stand by the rankins 100%)
I hope you enjoyed the article regardless of where players were placed!

*edit*
I read what UHF wrote whilst still half asleep after I woke up so I only skimmed his posts, but I'm fairly sure thats the gist of it. If I'm completely wrong please correct me

[UHF]

UHF did a great job but he says many times that he didnt do every tournament, and he also jumbled a few together and weighed different tournaments differently, which are all biased, arbitrary points of data and therefore invalid for anything statistically of importance.

I did as many tournaments as I could find, which turned out to be about 40-50 events. I concede that you'd need every single event to have a 100% accurate ranking, however I think what I have is enough to find a near-enough result. I considered keeping all events in a category the same weight as each has basically the same factor of opportunity. However in reality when one event has less than 10 players, and one had over 40, it seems silly to weigh them the same.

When I said I joined a few events together, it was specifically the 1v1 finals events that were separate from the qualifiers, which seemed silly to keep separate (and double up points for winning the qualifier then winning the finals).

You can't accept some points of data (ie. which tournaments should "count") and not some others and then create a list and say "these are the top 10". The very nature of doing so is only providing arbitrary numbers to a points system that generally denotes who will be in the top 20.

I didn't cherry pick events, I used all the data I could find - nothing was left out!

That being said, when I wrote the article I didn't do very much research, as I knew who placed where in what big tournaments, coupled with the top 5 players opinions (their own 1-10 rank) to come up with this power rank

You've done exactly what you said you shouldn't do (choosing your own points of data). It's not fair to say that my data is invalid then go on to say this. This is directly biased as you picked the events, the players and the people that voted.

I feel it captures the scene FOR THE WHOLE YEAR pretty darn accurately

If you only select certain events to draw data from, then it neither captures the whole year, nor is it accurate.

I'd like to see someone come up with something better.

That's what I tried to do! My only goal was to try come up with something fairly accurate!

You're never going to come up with something 100% objective as it's to hard to get every single tournaments results+data, and leaving out tournaments is biased in itself.
Yes it is based a lot on my + top 5 'code s' opinion, which is how players rankings/seeds have been done forever, so sometimes things get messed up a lil (but i stand by the rankins 100%)
I hope you enjoyed the article regardless of where players were placed!

Overall I agree with you: my data isn't 100% accurate, it's based off weights I provided, and I didn't get every single piece of data around. However it's probably the closest thing you'll have to accurate unless someone else does a more thorough job. It doesn't mean your list is wrong and I'm not saying it is. I just wanted something for myself and anyone else interested in the stats.

I hope this doesn't come across in the wrong tone - i appreciate the effort and organising something. Just wanted to chip in!

[nGenLight]

@Kez

No you didn't do much research, and it showed in your writing. Good effort though.

Originally Posted by aLtShortizz

Ffs. Everytime something like this comes along, be it the power rank or last years 2011 awards, some one has to have their ego bruised. Its just a bloody article/award made by someone whose willing to put in the effort to provide content that most of us enjoy. There's no reward or prize, just ego and e-prestige. I said this last year and I'll say it again, make ur own god damn list if ur so upset about it, but don't farkig
Call this stupid or retarded. This was made by members of the sc2sea community who took time and effort in researching and asking various opinions.

I enjoyed reading the article and loved how their designed the power rank page, I'm sure most of us do and would like to see more of these awards / rankings. So again if u think it's stupid or unfair, go die in a fire.

EDIT: Great job on the article btw, was a great read!

You put something in the face of the public, representing an organisation, you face the hurt egos and criticism. So if you think people can't voice their opinions, go hold mummie's hand.

[Myth.ZenAku]

Haven't really read half of this thread but I think the true moral of the story is:

Don't get frustrated that people have a different opinion to you. Life is about discussions. If you're going to just make a mockery out of someone because they have blatantly not researched enough, in my opinion, don't. If the article is really bad as it is people won't believe it anyways because they know information that isn't in the article or isn't true. If they really cared that much about the power rankings they would read every single comment including a player's response to their position. If someone is going to read an article and not read the rest of the information and are openly saying they don't care about any other facts, then maybe you should really reconsider how much you really value the fact that people praise you over other people if that is the case.

No offense, but as soon as you start to insult someone based on the fact that people are sharing their opinions you automatically lose and mildly make yourself look like a fool. Share opinions until you both come to your own conclusions or the same one. If you're really so content that your story is more valid than someone else's, then by all means you should be able to convince everyone that you are right because you know absolutely everything there is and hence could deflect any point which was made against you.

As far as I'm concerned, I'm the best sc2 player on this planet. Debate me.

[x5.Revenant]

Ladies, ladies, settle down.

[FaDeBadger]

The butthurt in this thread is amazing, chill the **** out people. It's a ranking based on a bunch of high level players' opinions. Of course there is going to be bias. If you don't like it, use UHF's list. Even then the only major difference is Mafia/PiG and it's by a handful of points.

[SLCN.Kez]

@UHF Nah I didnt take offense dw, and I didn't mean offense when I brought up some things with your data, I was merely saying it isn't perfect like mine, and should be taken with a grain of salt. My point was that no system is perfect, and we're just trying to do our best pretty much ^^

[nGenLight]

Originally Posted by iM Light

*nirvAnA: *
its the hurt egos that need to hold mommies hand!! lots of drama over nothing imo

It isn't nothing. Ego is pretty damn important for mental health (which ever way you swing it, lack of or too much). Obviously when you are going to list a power rank across COMPETITIVE people (where egos are the heavily contested) your going to have many bruised egos, disagreements and backlashes. Most people will claim they don't care what people/the community thinks of them, and this is far from the truth, we all care in some form.

Having a headline news of you being put in a place you really hate is obviously going to upset you (e.g Pig>Mafia) It is inevitable. The problem is people with the bruised egos aren't dealing with the situations very well and the people who are defending the list-makers are telling people who have a second opinion to "die in a fire" or make your own.

I of course am not saying I approve of people calling people retarded or stupid, regardless if your ego is bruised. But people can definitely discuss the validity authenticity and accuracy of such content without being told to shutup and accept it as it is. Isn't this what this thread is here for in the first place?

I myself personally am pretty happy with the list overall, much like everyone else I think it is quite accurate with a few adjustment here and there. People also went ahead and made their own list. The only issue I had with the power rank was the writing. Like Kez said, there is a lack of research, a lack of insight and heavy ended on sentimentality about potential dominance in the future, lack of editing, and BAD PUNS.

We should all hold our mother's hand if we can't handle some simple disagreements.

Quick Comments

	Pandan:	Forums are literally for discussion, so I'm with RayRay +1
	nirvAnA:	oh discussion is very good, as long as its civil. i loved UHF's post!
	x5.Revenant:	*Trys to imagine a Raichu holding a Pikachu's hand.* Kawaii!

[syfChadMann]

Easy way to rank who's been the most successful over the year.

How much $$$$ They've won.

Other than that - I'd agree to that list alot and oh my word, it was well made..
Good job to everyone! Excited to see what 2013 holds

EDIT: Pandizzle.. Didn't say Best - I said Easy and is a fair barometer for success over a time period.

Quick Comments

	Pandan:	False. Best method is ELO ranking of all tournament matches. L2P
	ToR.Arnor:	Easy way in no way means best way, l2read <3
	ROOTPetraeus:	chopped

[Myth.ZenAku]

I think you're right in that sense but if everyone kept acting like the way you did, no one would ever stop being negative to each other and create an endless cycle. A place where egos stopped mattering in my opinion is when people stopped butchering each other on who is better than who. Even if you say you are better than someone else, knowing that you may never know and having that equal respect is enough for it to not matter

Quick Comments

	nGenLight:	What way did I act?
	UHF:	I don't think the thread is as bad as you make out..

[SLCN.Kez]

I don't think there is that much of lack of research other than not having all tournaments results on hand, for the major ones it was ok, IMO at least. And I will always write bad puns, i think it/they are funny and unfortunately for you nirvana still gives me stuff to write hehe but if you wish for me to stop with light ones i will, but the RAY one i really loved haha

[aLtShortizz]

Originally Posted by iM Light

You put something in the face of the public, representing an organisation, you face the hurt egos and criticism. So if you think people can't voice their opinions, go hold mummie's hand.

You can face criticism and hurt egos, but calling it stupid or retarded without even a reasonable explaination? How can we even encourage such articles in future if half the posters are hating on it over the SLIGHTEST thing. And im not even talking about the writing on the article, which is what you are upset about. I fully agree that you have the right to voice out against you since your one of the people he wrote about.(I thought the Puns were funny btw)

The elephant in the room is mafia and some others going full retard on the article and writers because he got placed behnid PiG. Personally, i could care less if the 2 switches place, and i dont think alot of people are going to come out crying about it too.

Kez, Cute and gang put on something in the face of the public, representing an organisation that provides FREE content on their own time. The last thing we need is people giving one liners like ''Retarded article'' or the likes of it. At least have the decency to explain why like UHF did(nice chart bro) and show some respect for a community that all of us claim to be apart of.

PS: I hold my mum's hand when we are crossing the road or taking a stroll, i think its very sweet.

PSS: Nothing personal Light, i`d like to think that we are having a very light hearted discussion here.

EDIT: Yeah Kez, probably a lil harsh but you get my point.

Quick Comments

SLCN.Kez:

to be fair i dont think i saw anyone say "retarded article"?

[nGenLight]

@Kez
Well I speak for myself Kez I was not impressed with what you wrote about me. The crap about "strategies not working really well" was confusing. Everyone of my friends who read it was like "meh" This guy wrote nothing about you except use your name in a bunch of puns. There was nothing really insightful about me or my performance. You even mentioned HOTS, when I've never even opened the damn thing.

You should see Tgun's notes on his private rankings, it was superbly insightful. Because he actually took the time to know/learn/speak to the people he is writing about.

Nevertheless many people seem to have enjoyed your writing here, so good on you. Yeah, good effort also, just not impressed. It ain't unfortunate for me, better someone to do the job then noone, I just don't have to be impressed by it, at least not by this one.

@ZeNaku
Which way did I behave that showed rudeness or supreme negativity? I debated with NXZ without being rude and we came to an understanding of our misunderstanding almost immediately. The rest of the thread was just people saying they agree/disagree. What was BAD was when somebody started calling other people retards and some other people responded by telling people to die in a fire to people having a second opinion in a thread designed for people to express them.

@Shortizz

No one said it was a retarded article/ranking. I only remember Mafia saying he strongly disagrees.

There is no Mafia and Gang, there is only Mafia. Are you sure you've read through what is going on? Or are you just being a drama queen.

[SLCN.Kez]

Also, at the end of the day, people were always going to disagree with me, and I fully knew that going into it when I began writing it, sooooooo yeh I dunno, shit happens I guess, it's not that big of a deal


*edit*
@light, I actually wrote a bit more stuff highlighting you your play but, for whatever reason, wasn't put in. But at the end of the day this wasn't supposed to be in depth discussion on each player, more of a brief recap about how they did and to try and make it light and humorous, which was pretty much the main goal

*edit 2* and yeah I got what tgun wrote as well

Quick Comments

nGenLight:

The only wrath you have to face is Tim's

[nGenLight]

Originally Posted by iM Light

*aLtShortizz: *
I did say or the likes of it. If you like i could also edit it into Mafia and others. Full on Drama queen btw!

Which OTHERS do you speak of Shortizz? I'm keen to know besides Mafia, who else made a big deal of Pig being ahead of Mafia? Other then that, I saw nothing but some mild discussions of people's own opinions of the rankings.

I don't mean to be offensive, but you should probably get your facts right before you argue.

Quick Comments

x5.Revenant:

Boom, headshot.

[x5.Revenant]

Originally Posted by iM Light

Which OTHERS do you speak of Shortizz? I'm keen to know besides Mafia, who else made a big deal of Pig being ahead of Mafia? Other then that, I saw nothing but some mild discussions of people's own opinions of the rankings.

I don't mean to be offensive, but you should probably get your facts right before you argue.

Oh no you missed out on NOM agreeing with Tim, now you're going to get blown up for it

Quick Comments

	nGenLight:	GG I lose
	SLCN.Kez:	Rev comes back from being innactive to start shit :p
	TAEdgE:	love rev

[UHF]

One thought I've often got stuck on is just the nature of our competitive environment. As we are such a small scene, we don't really have enough pro players to create too much variance at events. Generally it's the same people every time - especially at as the events get bigger (the variance usually comes from the lower end).

I'd actually like to hear some thoughts on what characteristics of events matter the most when determining weights. Things such as player pool, prize pool, prestige, online/offline, invite vs open, format, timing, etc etc.

[SLCN.Kez]

For me importance goes: International event (anything not purely SEA or something like WCS, WCG)
National event final (ACL'S)
Major Lan tournament (That iM Gigabyte thing targa won)
Major online tournament
minor online tournament/qualifiers for other big lan invites
minor lan tournaments (CH's, Melb MC lans etc)

[iM MaFia]

I'd always weigh the importance of the tournament at how big the prize pool is, regardless of players

[Myth.ZenAku]

Originally Posted by iM Light

@Kez
@ZeNaku
Which way did I behave that showed rudeness or supreme negativity? I debated with NXZ without being rude and we came to an understanding of our misunderstanding almost immediately. The rest of the thread was just people saying they agree/disagree. What was BAD was when somebody started calling other people retards and some other people responded by telling people to die in a fire to people having a second opinion in a thread designed for people to express them.

It's definitely not as bad as I'm making it out to be and not really as evident but it's those small comments which just make it that much harder to swallow and talk unaffected e.g. So if you think people can't voice their opinions, go hold mummie's hand.

Again, it seems a little bit naive for me to comment considering I've barely read this read. I'm just chucking this in here, but from what I've heard and what I've seen I think you can kinda see what I mean but it's definitely not as bad as I'm making it out to be

[Baldie]

Prize pool is a consistent variable between any tournament online/offline/national/international so that is a great place to get a general idea of where tournaments position themselves. Then the other variables such as online/offline, national/international, single elim/double elim, bo3/bo1 etc come into play to give a more detailed and accurate placing.

[nGenLight]

Originally Posted by ZenAku

It's definitely not as bad as I'm making it out to be and not really as evident but it's those small comments which just make it that much harder to swallow and talk unaffected e.g. So if you think people can't voice their opinions, go hold mummie's hand.

Again, it seems a little bit naive for me to comment considering I've barely read this read. I'm just chucking this in here, but from what I've heard and what I've seen I think you can kinda see what I mean but it's definitely not as bad as I'm making it out to be

Go hold mummie's hand was a retaliation to someone telling us to go die in a fire for voicing the purpose of what this thread was designed for. I thought my response was mild at best.

I see what you are getting at, but you need to read the thread before your making false accusations and calling people out. Sticking your nose in something you don't have the complete facts in is weak. Calling things retarded and stupid because you don't agreement with them is a big nono, but if you can't handle simple disagreements and call it "negativity", you probably need to stay off the internet.

You better have a good argument if your going to call me out, ever.

[HuT]

This thread =

Quick Comments

	SLCN.Kez:	so much win
	UHF:	this post = itself
	RuineD:	DONT DO IT AGAIN HUT
	nirvAnA:	haha hut got pwned!
	NOM:	perfect :P
	nGenLight:	looks like HuT

[DUCKVILLELOL]

Cool list, great players all around! Good stuff Cute and crew.

[Myth.ZenAku]

Originally Posted by iM Light

Go hold mummie's hand was a retaliation to someone telling us to go die in a fire for voicing the purpose of what this thread was designed for. I thought my response was mild at best.

I see what you are getting at, but you need to read the thread before your making false accusations and calling people out. Sticking your nose in something you don't have the complete facts in is weak. Calling things retarded and stupid because you don't agreement with them is a big nono, but if you can't handle simple disagreements and call it "negativity", you probably need to stay off the internet.

You better have a good argument if your going to call me out, ever.

My bad I didn't mean to say that things were stupid and retarded (not sure if I actually wrote that) even if I don't agree with them considering that's the whole idea of a discussion. I also said that I admit I haven't read this entire thread so don't think too much of it. I was also referring to the fact that even if someone is saying negative comments maybe you shouldn't do the same because it just makes you equal with them. I wasn't really calling you out either, simply stating my opinion. By all means do what you want, I don't know enough to completely stop you but have at least have a think!

Quick Comments

nGenLight:

I'm sensitive and enjoy a good debate, I apologize for taking it too seriously.