[sunsetkid]

Ok, I've decided I want to get to Master League. When I do play(I don't take games very seriously, I cheese at times---last 5 games were all-in 8 pools and lost all) I play on the NA server. My opponents are almost exclusively 2400-2600 diamonds, and I don't face platinums but neither do I face masters. I actually am slightly favored over most 2300-2400 diamonds(weird). The acct has around 80 games and 500 pts with 1900 bonus. I play zerg. I do use the standard hotkeys, and don't have issues with micro and multitasking or larva injection in the middle of battle etc.

Since I'm looking to improve my skills, I'll stop cheese for now. Am also looking to learn some build orders. My standard build order these days for 1v1(all races!) is the 7 roach rush. If it works,well and good. If it fails, then I start thinking about what to do in-game. It works well against most protoss, so-so against zerg, and isn't very good against terran. I'll also start looking at the replays I lose. Most times, I prefer watching streams or LifesAGlitchTV(its darn funny) commentary on sc2.

Here are some questions for more experienced fellas to help me on.

1. What build order vs terrans is usually practiced?
- My 7RR into banelings/speedlings doesn't seem to be doing well at all. I think its something to do with the economy..haha. Most guys are bunkering and walling off these days pretty well. Even when I nydus into their base I usually don't have enough units to overcome them so I'm thinking of scrapping the 7RR altogether vs terran.

2. When do you suicide in overlords?
- I'm not clear about timing. 30?50?70? Every 3 mins? Every 20 supply?

3. What is the usual unit composition vs tanks?
- I usually use muta/ling/baneling vs marines/tanks composition. Would roaches/hydras be better?

4. Any advice on creep spread?
- if I 7RR, then my queen's first 25 mana is used on inject. Do most of you guys use it on creep tumor instead?
- my creep spread is quite poor and slow.

5. Baneling speed?
- is researching baneling speed useful? If so, when would be a reasonable time?

6. Is there any place where I can find decent build orders?
- I think they really make a difference. I used to 8 pool every game in the 1 week I played the beta. It got me to top bronze. Hoping for something more powerful!

Thanks in advance guys!

[Unstable]

If this is a sincere post my apologies in advance.

But really? you say you have 80 games played yet your last 5 games were all ins??? Im going to put money on u cheese/all in 75% of the time.

So my first point of advice, is dont cheese/allin for the next 2 months! seriously, it wont help you improve at all.. if anything it has hurt you. becaues you are now playing people who can defend cheese and are decent macro etc. and you are back to square 1.

If you wnat to get better at sc2, then you HAVETO take it seriously. your not going to win games just by winging it and doing whatever when you done care. so heres step 1 to getting better. - go lose abou 100 games when doing standrad builds. seriously im not joking.

after every loss watch the replay and go why did i lose, note it down in a spreadsheet or document and move on. at the end of those 100 games review it. and you will start to see trends that you can adjust.

You talk about the 7RR. i would also suggest you stop doing this now aswell, as it is not a build that can be used effectively for a macro game unless you do alot of damage.

Overlord suicide timings i would say would be at the 7min mark and the 14-15 just to be safe. but you also want to have xel naga towers contantly under control. also running aling up the ramp every 30-60 seconds helps too.

baneling speed is a vital part of your composition you should be geting it everygame vs T,,


muta ling baneling works vs tank marine etc its all about creep placement and surrounds/banelings

Honestly, the best place for Z to get build orders is practice until you kno what your comfortable with. since its a reactionary race we dont have anything other than our main openers, for the next say, 100 games, try making as many drones as you can while staying alive. seriously, try it and adjust your game everytime u lose to compensate that way you will get a feel for the timings etc. some very basic openers for macro play you can try. would be 15hatch 14 pool, or 14gas 14 pool and go from there.


really quick off thetop of my head reply but hopefully u get the point

[Galaxy]

Well practicing all-ins is getting you nowhere, the micro required for all-in is totally different from any game lasting more than 6~7 minutes, as the unit compositions will change and require more focus on different unit types.

I recommend just grinding at ladder, download some pro z replays from sc2rep.com , copy some build orders.

Another tip is try your best, i find i get relaxed and lazy in games, try to be really careful about all your unit positioning and timings on expanding / scouting.

[divinesage]

Of the few times I play nowadays, I almost exclusively play macro games that drag past the 12 minute mark. I think it helps to improve macro builds and skills, which are in my opinion, harder to master than early rushes and all-ins.

[Xeen]

Originally Posted by divinesage

Of the few times I play nowadays, I almost exclusively play macro games that drag past the 12 minute mark. I think it helps to improve macro builds and skills, which are in my opinion, harder to master than early rushes and all-ins.

The way you word this really is hilarious - a game that doesn't 'drag past 12 minutes' has very little scope for any form of transitions, macro, or game sense. It implies someone all-ined or rolled over and died to pressure.

Playing a 'macro' game is what I would consider standard Starcraft because doing otherwise means you're not looking at the full depth of strategy. If your macro game isn't good you will simply not be a good player, because anyone can blind-rush to Master league.

For the OP, get used to expanding early, taking bases and droning when you have the advantage, and winning through harass, map control, and superior numbers. Once you're good at that, you'll understand when it can be beneficial to all-in during the game and punish excessively greedy players.

[divinesage]

Originally Posted by Xeen

The way you word this really is hilarious - a game that doesn't 'drag past 12 minutes' has very little scope for any form of transitions, macro, or game sense. It implies someone all-ined or rolled over and died to pressure.

Playing a 'macro' game is what I would consider standard Starcraft because doing otherwise means you're not looking at the full depth of strategy. If your macro game isn't good you will simply not be a good player, because anyone can blind-rush to Master league.

For the OP, get used to expanding early, taking bases and droning when you have the advantage, and winning through harass, map control, and superior numbers. Once you're good at that, you'll understand when it can be beneficial to all-in during the game and punish excessively greedy players.

Hahaha yeah now that you've mentioned it, it does sound weird. But yes, you have just typed what I wanted to express earlier.

[sunsetkid]

hi guys, thx for all your replies! i gather that expanding early is a key point of improvement. ok then. i shall take the effort to slowly learn a new build order involving expansion+download some replays in my free time.

[sunsetkid]

hey i tried 15 pool 14 hatch on scrap station vs another zerg. not bad! i could actually make a huge bunch of mistakes and get away with it because of better econ. he went 7rr into roach hydra, i barely held it off and countered with mutaling.

reminds me of the times in beta when i didn't know how to make roaches and didn't make hydras cos they were insanely slow

[sunsetkid]

i think 14 hatch 13 pool/14 hatch 15 pool/15 hatch 16 pool is not bad at all. it seems much more powerful than 7rr esp vs terrans. thx guys!!
and i can make lots more roaches/speedlings/banelings! the only thing i notice is that i always forget to spread creep. very bad habit

[aztecx]

You're probably going to have a lot of trouble keeping up with players who were apparently of your skill level when you try to stop your all-ins and cheese play to get into master league. I played a zerg who ling/spine crawler rushed me and I wasn't able to hold it off. The next game I got him again and he tried to play a normal zvz macro style match. I ended up completely obliterating him and whilst playing I was able to notice huge leaks in his game that you would not normally see at the 2300-2400 diamond level.

Generally people either cheese or they don't, and the people that do cheese often do it a large percentage of the time. I believe the second poster made the correct assessment by saying that you probably cheese about 75% of the time. You wouldn't need to cheese if you could win by playing normally at your current perceived level. Hence you getting into masters is going to take a LOT of hard work.

[NerA]

@OP

You seem to be under the impression that Starcraft 2 is all about finding the right 'time' to do everything. I think that you may be confused. It's not 'time', it's 'timing'. You don't send a ******* overlord in to DIE at regular intervals, you send one in if you don't have a clue what your opponent is doing, suspect something sneaky, and can't get that information any other way.

Is baneling speed useful? Really? Of course not; the developers added it as a joke to confuse young people like yourself. Did it work?

Oh, and watch Day9.

[sunsetkid]

hi guys! thx for the input and feedback. actually i find cheese fun(to play and to defend). i prefer a cheese win anytime over normal play actually, but its been harder to execute successfully recently i guess. as of right now, i can do the usual macro 2-3-4 base style play(except infestors, i don't know how to use them) against 2300-2600 diamonds(my typical opposition) and do better than my favourite cheese builds on maps like LT/metalo/scrap. but jungle/steppes seems harder.

another thing. i know the optimum number of drones per base is 22. 6 on gas and 16 on the 8 mineral patches. usually i make a box over them and stop once i see 20(2 inside extractor). but in replays there is this box that shows the number of workers. does anyone know if it can be enabled in game?

[Synthos]

Originally Posted by sunsetkid

hi guys! thx for the input and feedback. actually i find cheese fun(to play and to defend). i prefer a cheese win anytime over normal play actually, but its been harder to execute successfully recently i guess. as of right now, i can do the usual macro 2-3-4 base style play(except infestors, i don't know how to use them) against 2300-2600 diamonds(my typical opposition) and do better than my favourite cheese builds on maps like LT/metalo/scrap. but jungle/steppes seems harder.

another thing. i know the optimum number of drones per base is 22. 6 on gas and 16 on the 8 mineral patches. usually i make a box over them and stop once i see 20(2 inside extractor). but in replays there is this box that shows the number of workers. does anyone know if it can be enabled in game?

lol...wut. no..no there isn't.

[|Erasmus|]

Originally Posted by Synthos

lol...wut. no..no there isn't.

the income overlay in replay mode... shows you number of harvesters.
the unit overlay in replay mode... shows you number of units (including workers).

But no, there is no way to enable these during a game.

[Astron]

http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/co...or_below_your/