[Statix]

ive come across this a few times over the last couple of weeks and it gets me every time. I keep the guy on 2 base, steady teching myself and thinking, man i have this in the bag! no expand 3rd for him and im moving to 3/3 with 150 sup of roaches (60 drones) and then about 10 thors come at me. Now. you could say scout, but even if i did, my guys died anyway (we salute you roaches, even you have families!) what should i be doing to give me a fighting chance against this? what is the ideal comp if i dont have broods ready?

[Malice]

Can you post a replay or two of it happening?

It sounds like you're not reacting well enough. Moving onto 3/3 which requires getting hive is too much tech when your only goal should be to defend this two base push. Just mass roaches, and keep re-enforcing. Eventually the thors will die off.

[ToRVenom]

I go Roaches... They work Extreamly well!!!!! i think that is the way to go ... Really good against thor.. As long as u focus fire..

[VB_Blake]

Yeah simple focus fire should do the trick, if they have a lot of scv's going on auto repair get some banelings to go with your roaches and target the scvs with them. If they don't have hellions also get a few lings.

[Statix]

ah k didnt consider getting the banes in, ill find a replay and post, its been a few games since it happened last . .there are 3 id like to show

[TCPGunter]

infestors with ur roaches take some of his thors while u fight him alwasy funny when i do it

[Migrashin]

The push is probably too easy to get neural parasite, but anyways like other have said, if they have scvs on auto repairs you need bannelings to take them out. Lings aren't gonna do anything if they have hellions supporting them.

[DarKcS]

Here's some criticisms:
You are waay over-preparing defense. 2 spines + spore in each mineral line. I don't know any Terran that would drop your natural on that map.
1 spore per mineral line is all you need against single banshee play and bio play. Then adding 1 spine when drops are confirmed. And as you found on Shakuras, they can just drop the edges unharmed.

You also need to hotkey all your queens so you can pull them (A-Move) to defend hellion runbys/drops. You basically didn't react at all properly here and it sets you 19 drones behind..ouch.

And for the love of creep, you never used your 3rd queen or existing tumors to connect your 3rd base. Also later you can plant down mass spines while going broods out in the middle which is awesome but alas you kind of have to sit up your ramp in horrible concaves.

Running drones in a min walk line to another base against blue flame drops is the worst you could have done, you need to handle that better next time. You had 2spines in your line you might of been able to cower next to but you panic'd.


As for your macro/opening in general, roaches usually open up early expansions against hellions at the 6-8 minute mark, but you didn't expand till well past the 10m mark. Try getting it down early against non-marine heavy openings and you should have little problems.

Composition wise, roach baneling keeps you safe against early MM as well as SCV allins and thor/SCV. A baneling nest as late as your 4 gas and lair is recommended, or earlier if you see signs of a push.

Then later you go fast hive and ...make 5 mutas and never go broods. You had a huge 8 minute window here instead you basically kept throwing away units and over-making roaches throughout the game.

Your opponent did some nice harass but only had 2 factories the entire game, you could have easily won that if you macro'd well and transitioned in to broods.

And oh god those engagements. Never fight thors in chokes, always hug him and target fire thors 1 at a time, you need to take out their DPS as quickly as possible.

[Statix]

agree with everything you say but you got one thing wrong . . i never panic

[RVLiveR]

Against mass thors specifically, try to always engage in big, open areas (in Shakuras, that would be around the middle of the map, and that's about it...), and if possible flank. Some simple focus firing should do the trick then. As you said in your OP, broods are the final answer ("What should I do if I don't have broods ready?") - Thors tend to be pretty slow and clunky + take some time to repair, and you can stall time for broodlords most of the time.

[lTIaster]

Yeah if you have 150 3/3 roaches focus fire and make sure you keep in reinforcing your army. You can overpower them with numbers.

[jayaiwhy]

neural is the key

[Pox]

Assuming you get a three base economy up at a reasonable time, you shouldn't have any issues with this if you just mass upgraded roaches and focus fire to nullify repair. If you max out and he hasn't pushed yet you probably want to engage as close to his base as possible to give you remax time - you can even attack into him if he's not making tanks.

Quick Comments

ToRDolo:

gosu pox teach me antimech pleasuuuuuuuuuu

[Free]

Neural parasite . And then use ur roaches to kill the neuraled thors .

[FsDronesInJail]

when im up against mech, i go for the 12 minute stephano roach max.
If the first attempt fails i tech up to overlord drop, get 2 additional bases (which gives me 5 base) and multi -prong harass the terran

[Statix]

@FsDronesInJail Yes i do a mini version of this, 2 base to 8 mins then take 3rd, at around 10 mins my rSPeed and 1r/1c finishes and i push. if ive been left alone and no problem im sending quite a few roaches and my 3rd is saurated with a 4th mining gas teching th BL

Its when they come in numbers i just seem to get creamed, similarly with the toss as well, if my initial push doesnt do the army and eco damage i need it to i may as well just GG. Im just not sure how to extend my play to the next level. Coaching seems like it could be the answer but its not like coaching, just being told a load of stuff, my mechanics still stay at my level. I just dont feel im given enough to improve it. I play tonnes of games, hot a wall of improvement now. im in Silver but beating all the golds and plats it sends at me . . but then i go on mad losing streak! sigh. forever silver

[Lokth]

I think I have a new build to try out as terran.

[Shieldz]

lol mass thor on 2 base should never work;; just need roaches and target scv if they bring so easy;;

[mGGmetaStatic]

and have a bunch of overlords with a roach army because thors prioritise air units
then you can drop the main once you clean them up, ezez

[Statix]

@shieldz, i know right, im there think woot! starve him out! There comes a critical point though where it just kills

[ROOT`iaguz]

step 1) drone 3 base really fast and scout him with like an overlord or overseer to confirm him playing mech
step 2) make a shitload of roaches with attack upgrades and roach speed. If he's playing regular mech remember to get overlord speed and drop
step 3) when he pushes wait til he's on your creep then get a good concave and run them all as close and as packed as you can get right up to his thors. If it turns out he's playing a more passive mech style with tanks and shit load the roaches up and just mass dump them whereever you like
step 4) Win the ******* game.

step 4.5) consider throwing in speed banes too if you want to be able to clear all the chaff around the thors like hellions and scvs and shit.

If for some reason you're still playing a video game at thist point take another base and make broodlords with +carapace upgrades for them.

Quick Comments

	justice:	I enjoyed reading this post.
	Baldie:	I read all of this in your voice - thoroughly more enjoyable

[Statix]

iaguz, you know what i played a game about an hr ago and did exactly that, i think my issues were the a move . . is didnt focus each thor in turn but cleaned up all the shit with lingsnbanes, he just destroyed about 150 sup of units with 5-8 tanks, and a few banshees. Thanks everyone for the info. Ive played against this 3 times since the post and not lost yet! Love asking questions on this forum ^^

[mushistar]

FlashHelios did that vs me if you dont trade effectively it can mean death T_T

[Statix]

yeah the thors are just great when you have all this shit, i played a game shorly after the replay i sent and he had the same shit MUCH quicker with a really effective early marine harass with a drop. Very competant play . . i immediately assumed smurf ^^

[sRDante]

if in doubt in ZvT, make some queens!

jks only :P