[BeCosmos]

nirvAnA's note:

1. kindly refrain from commenting in this thread unless you have watched the replay
2. a clan's image should never be the result of a lone individual's actions. rLs for e.g was a clan full of really cool guys apart from he who cannot be named. SPR likewise appears to be a clan mostly made up of nice people too who are quick to disassociate themselves with such unethical behaviour and as evidenced by Masters response in this thread, so any negative feelings towards their clan are unwarranted.
3. this replay is apparently suspicious and not totally groundless, thats why the thread was not closed.
4. please keep in mind the possibility of him being innocent. So only unless blizzard bans his account or if he admits to it - dont be too quick to condemn him. In the mean time you are free to make your own judgement, just dont go overboard.

Hello guys!

This is my first post beside the quick presentation, I often check this forum but without posting yet.
My id is Cosmos.625 and I am a terran player (GM), you may have play me in ladder.

I played about a hour ago a maphacker called MeaNySPR (it was on the SEA server, of course). I am posting here to be sure that this player will be banned from the tournaments organized on the SEA server and to warn you if you play against him.

I only had a few doubts while playing the game because of his "luck" so I decided to watch the replay and this is what I saw:

Here is the replay: http://terranimba.com/replay/3OJk3YzUUOVj2Z

I am the red player on the bottom left, he is the blue player on the bottom right.

There are (at least) 2 moments in the replay where the hack is obvious:

-18:16 minuts (watch top left of the map) : He never scouted the 11 o'clock expand, sends 2 medivacs with marines, land them near the expand, uses stimpack (still without seeing the expand) and runs until the expand to kill it.

-18;50 minuts (watch bottom mid of the map and his natural base) : He didn't see by any way my medivacs going at the bottom of the map to his expand. When medivac almost reach his base, he uses stimpack on all his marines at his natural and goes to counter my drop, without even seeing it.


Don't hesitate to use V to switch from everyon's view to his view.

If you watch all the game on his view, there is nothing that can be detected but I heard that new map hacks prevent viewers of a replay to see when the map hacker is watching through the fog of war.
It could aswell be a hack showing him the minimap only, I don't know.

Please don't juge me on my play in this game, I played terribly. I'd like to add that I of course reported him to Blizzard via Bnet but Blizzard is apparently doing nothing so I wanted to share it with you, since it is on this website that most SEA events are organized (I think).

Cordially,

Cosmos

[Satu]

1. He spots the scv going to the expansion on the minimap. No reason for a marine to move over that direction, so you can assume its an scv.

2. He saw your medivacs and marines move away and ball up behind your army. He then sends only half his marines to his main by a stim, to be safe.

MeaNySPR has been playing on the SEA server for a fair while now, I've played against him a few times and I've never seen anything map-hack worthy. In that game, he doesn't move his player camera to look at any of your bases, to check your buildings/units. I don't think any maphacker would not do that.

I could be wrong, I just don't see any conclusive evidence.

[NvPinder]

Originally Posted by Zergtastic

MeaNySPR has been playing on the SEA server for a fair while now, I've played against him a few times and I've never seen anything map-hack worthy. In that game, he doesn't move his player camera to look at any of your bases, to check your buildings/units. I don't think any maphacker would not do that.

Sc2 maphacks allow you to 'lock player cam' so that when you take those sneaky peeks through the fog of war, you aren't seen doing it via player cam.

Either way, whether or not meanyspr is a hacker (and i certainly dont believe strongly either way), I'm 100% convinced there is atleast 1, if not more, hackers in SEA and every other Grandmaster league out there and you have a ******* retard amount of faith in humanity if you believe otherwise.

I'm just waiting till i get to lol when blizzard releases all the names they've banned and i see people ive been raping in macro games anyway were filthy hackers.

Quick Comments

	EveRorschach:
	ToRDeathsFang:	Well said +2

[Homer]

I've vsed him before on ladder (He either 1 or 2 base all ins), and to be honest now that I look back it does seem a little bit 'suss'. I've had games where he will go for the typical Terran 1 base all in, not spot if i have an expo (now that I look back with his cam view, which I hadn't expanded upon seeing him 1 basing), which he then expands. There has been a few other suss occasions aswell with his timings upon drops, etc, but I'm not 100% sure, could just be luck playing a role too.

[NvJazBas]

This is pretty stupid. I mean it is possible that Meany might have hacked, but to assume that he hacked with some plays that might have been based on "luck" or his "game sense" is really stupid imo. Somethings things like blind counters, blind rushes work without hacking. In TvZ, lots of Terran players just drop their marines near Z's 3rd base without scouting that there was one (even if it was fairly quick 3rd) and stims there just incase and I know they aren't hackers its just game sense. To post something like this when you are not 100% sure he hacked is just an assault and a result of your rage came out from losing. Please don't say someone has hacked when you are not 100% sure. And think before you post something like this. How would you feel if you were Meany and you didn't hack? Please think before you act.

[Xeen]

Originally Posted by nGenJazBas

How would you feel if you were Meany and you didn't hack? Please think before you act.

Proud as hell, that I trampled some nerd so hard that he thought I was cheating.

[Homer]

Originally Posted by nGenJazBas

This is pretty stupid. I mean it is possible that Meany might have hacked, but to assume that he hacked with some plays that might have been based on "luck" or his "game sense" is really stupid imo. Somethings things like blind counters, blind rushes work without hacking. In TvZ, lots of Terran players just drop their marines near Z's 3rd base without scouting that there was one (even if it was fairly quick 3rd) and stims there just incase and I know they aren't hackers its just game sense. To post something like this when you are not 100% sure he hacked is just an assault and a result of your rage came out from losing. Please don't say someone has hacked when you are not 100% sure. And think before you post something like this. How would you feel if you were Meany and you didn't hack? Please think before you act.

He was doing the Terran 1 base all in, that I have never seen anyone ever expand from (I've also vsed him a few times, and he's done the same thing 1 base every time). Then out of nowhere throws down an expansion. I'm not claiming he hacks, I'm juts calling it very suss and that OP may in fact be correct.

Quick Comments

	TAriiChard:	wow ....
	[TA]LoSt:	lolol
	Champi:	really man... =/
	deL:	Confirmation: people who expand are hackers.

[ZergGirl]

5:38 randomly looks in your base.

11:23, fiddles around with his units then moves them into a nice position to defend the attack he can't see coming. (didn't have siege though lol)

13:35 prepares to move into your base from the front, your siege line sets up - he runs a different way. (You will see the wiggle)

at 14:17 he looks at your marine at the 12 o clock position then your command centre at the top left.

18:50 The blind drop counter is suss. Of course you will move your marines and medivacs back out of tank fire :P

and watching MeaNy PoV he didn't see the scv, it was on the minimap though.

Btw the hack people use (that isn't detectable) is basically just an overlay. It shows what you are making, where you are making it and has little squares on your minimap representing certain units and buildings. Requires a nice little rewrite on blizzards part for it to be picked up by warden (QQ).

I talk to a few SPR members and they are all legit, MeaNy more than likely is too
Nothing really screams 100% maphacking :3
Alot of what he did could just be from playing TvT on that map and expects xxxx.

[clock]

Meany, please refer to the post below, watch the replay yourself and then explain why you would hover your camera over the minimap without performing any attack moves etc on that point, specifically when both exact points had enemy units/buildings under them.

I watched the replay then alt tabbing back to zerggirls post and its all right on the money, and in your post there is not explanation for any of this.

I think if you can explain this then it will put everyones mind at rest and prove your innocence.

I just watched the replay and i cant see why you randomly put ur screen here man. and everytime if i switched it to everyones view there was always something of his under the fog.

edit: im sure we can all admit even if we dont hack and never will, sometimes curiosity makes you want to type it in google and just try it for one game maybe this is a similar screnario as there is alot of cred here for meany from other players, but at the same time theres some really too many unexplainable things in the replay i think

Originally Posted by ZergGirl

5:38 randomly looks in your base.

11:23, fiddles around with his units then moves them into a nice position to defend the attack he can't see coming. (didn't have siege though lol)

13:35 prepares to move into your base from the front, your siege line sets up - he runs a different way. (You will see the wiggle)

at 14:17 he looks at your marine at the 12 o clock position then your command centre at the top left.

18:50 The blind drop counter is suss. Of course you will move your marines and medivacs back out of tank fire :P

and watching MeaNy PoV he didn't see the scv, it was on the minimap though.

Btw the hack people use (that isn't detectable) is basically just an overlay. It shows what you are making, where you are making it and has little squares on your minimap representing certain units and buildings. Requires a nice little rewrite on blizzards part for it to be picked up by warden (QQ).

I talk to a few SPR members and they are all legit, MeaNy more than likely is too
Nothing really screams 100% maphacking :3
Alot of what he did could just be from playing TvT on that map and expects xxxx.

[storywriter]

For what it's worth, I played against MeanySPR about a month ago and he definitely wasn't hacking then (I did a 3 gateway pressure which he didn't prepare for and even asked me number of gateways after the game). Had a nice chat with him too so, for my part, I doubt he's a hacker.

[[TA]LoSt]

Yeh I've had practice games with MeaNySPR and he's asking me for games numerous times, and I've also met him on ladder. Haven't watched the replay now but I'm sure he wasn't hacking back then. No comment for now though.

And there's two different map hacks, one is an overlay and the other is a legit executable maphack that allows you to, as pinder said, lock the screen while you check out your opponents base then unlock the screen when you're done. The overlay maphack is not as complex.

[ZergGirl]

Originally Posted by [TA]LoSt

And there's two different map hacks, one is an overlay and the other is a legit executable maphack that allows you to, as pinder said, lock the screen while you check out your opponents base then unlock the screen when you're done. The overlay maphack is not as complex.

nasty :|
It's nice that sea is so small sometimes xD

[PiG]

Man you guys have insane apm wth!

I didn't look to closely but it looked like you were outplayed. IF you want this to be taken seriously compile a list of questionable things he did. Otherwise looks like u just ragin boi!

[TARane]

I know MeaNySPR personally, infact he goes to my school and has been over at my house to chill and play SC2 several times.
I can confidently say he doesnt maphack cuz ive played numerous practice games with him and seen him play live with no maphacking whatsoever.
If he is infact maphacking outside my clock, shame on him and suitable punishment should follow. However, i still strongly believe the chances of him actually maphacking are close to zero and for one to accuse him on such fact would make him even more depressed than he is now (cuz he is so joke at this game )

[MeaNySPR]

oh wow man you must have been really pissed off because you just lost to a master league noob and gave so much points away! I really thank you for that because I was really aspiring to beat a grandmaster in a long while.
I know you were "Favored" on the ladder game and everything but it really takes some guts to immaturely decide that I was maphacking when I beat you.
Have you ever seen ST_Bomber's games on DreamHack?
Have you ever seen BratOK's games?
Yeap that's right.
The trend nowadays is to create a base at the corners of the map because it can not be easily attacked as you are vulnerable for counter attack.
I knew you weren't going for a 2 base all in because of the number of units you had.
Is it so wrong to correctly assume that you have a third?
"stimpacking marines before even knowing that you have a third located there" = suspicious?
Dude, get some pills and relax man. there's really nothing suspicious about trying to just get to locations faster with a low cost of stimpack. I always stimpack a marine or two to the new location that I am flying my CC over to because I just want any unit there to be killed faster.
You were containing me in my base with your tanks. You had medivacs and marines playing around. Oh shit I forgot to prevent drops! Hence I smacked my marines' ass to run to my base to protect my base.
I really can't believe I am bothering to explain a lot of things about just a game that I played with some random rager, but I really need you to just shut up.
If you have so much problem about the games that you play because you lost, you obviously don't have the mindset that's totally necessary in the world of starcraft: to analyze your mistakes and learn from them to become a better player. I really don't know why you are even playing starcraft (possibly to just rage at people? I don't know, you answer me).
Oh and my last words-
You shouldn't be streaming.
Build skill first.

That's all

Quick Comments

	nard:	epic last two lines
	Dox:	Awful.

[TARane]

Originally Posted by meany

Oh and my last words-
You shouldn't be streaming.

That's all

LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLL. case closed?

[BeCosmos]

My stream is not famous so I didn't even guess that he could streamsnipe me but even if it is what he did, it is cheating.

When he is defending himself saying I'm raging or mad, it doesn't make any sense... I gged and it was the first game for me this day so I just knew I played bad, told to myself: "aaah played so bad, but let'st check the replay, just in case (for the medivac drop at bottom of the map especially, but I first thought that he would have see it by any way)". It is only by chance/accident (for him) that I found the stimpack without seeing my base at top left and with the confirmation he didn't see my medivacs at the bottom

More, it was TvT and the mu being perfectly balanced, if you lose you fucked up. I even think that without the cheat he would probably have win since I played terribly and he macroed better. He would have take a bit more dammages to the drop but would have been able to clean it pretty easily and finish the game.

I repeat: I am not mad, not even raging at him after discovering the cheat just having pity but hoping for sanction. If you didn't see the replay yet, I encourage you to do it. It is the first time I am almost certain that I played a cheater in more than 2000 games on starcraft 2 (maybe got drophacked but can't really see if it was a drophack or my connection having a problem).

[NvJazBas]

So Meany stream sniped cosmos?lol

[MeaNySPR]

Originally Posted by nGenJazBas

So Meany stream sniped cosmos?lol

nooo i didn't even know such a player can dare to stream his games

[Xeen]

Originally Posted by meany

nooo i didn't even know such a player can dare to stream his games

You're quite the keyboard warrior.

I propose a grudgematch between these two.

Quick Comments

	TADivinity:	Why?
	lolwut:	for fun :D

[[TA]LoSt]

Stream snipe. ****** classic.

[NvJazBas]

Was just told that he was meaning "a bad player shouldn't stream" not "I stream sniped"

[SungInSPR]

He is a too noob as a maphack player. I am sure he is not using hack

[Xenomorph]

Thia accusation appalls me. Meany would never hack and never will hack. He may always go for some 2 base timing/all in which dies more than 90% of the time, but how does that mean he hacks? This thread is saddening....

[SoongHeeSPR]

LOL this is so funny that i cannot even stop laughing cosmos u r amazing train harder dude

[RockSPR]

you know what.....meany is one of the most fcking noob in our clan....zzz then u lost to him....zz

[[TA]LoSt]

Too noob to maphack..? Come on, if you're going to support a clan mate at least come up with something more solid/factual than that..

MeaNy is a mate of mine so I'm not having a say in this, I just hope he doesn't. There are bronze players maphacking and still in bronze; maphack doesn't automatically make you a top tier player..

[Xenomorph]

Originally Posted by [TA]LoSt

Too noob to maphack..? Come on, if you're going to support a clan mate at least come up with something more solid/factual than that..

MeaNy is a mate of mine so I'm not having a say in this, I just hope he doesn't. There are bronze players maphacking and still in bronze; maphack doesn't automatically make you a top tier player..

LOL im pretty sure what sungin means is that meany is to dumb to even know how to map hack.

[Champi]

He certainly wasnt map hacking when i took his 20 ladder points with mass archons on delta quadrant

i like meany, and i like SPR. they are my homies, and they dont hack

Super Party Rockers ftw

Quick Comments

TAEdgE:

positive rep for actually talking about a game you won

[BeCosmos]

Too much bias in your posts, I'm sure you didn't even read my post and didn't even watch the replay, you just defend blindly your friend or use non-sense arguments like "he is too noob to know how to hack". I was hoping some serious answer on this serious case but I was wrong.
Bye.

[deL]

Originally Posted by BeCosmos

I was wrong.

Story of the thread, gg. Bye.

[TAVoices]

Smoke more weed cosmos

Quick Comments

	[TA]LoSt:	This. Best advice yet
	Champi:
	lolwut:	anGry lolwut takes your rep points! Hacking is serious

[optiX]

rofl thread is rofl

Quick Comments

lolwut:

anGry lolwut takes your rep points! hacking is serious

[BaKaiNu]

You know what. I'm tired of giving warning and infractions to almost every single post in this thread. Closed.

[BaKaiNu]

I reopened the thread for VALID discussion out of several request and curiousity. Any trolling or flaming the thread starter will result in infraction. Like immediate, no debatable infraction. So keep it clean.

[V_enDetta]

I've watched the replay, and I have to add that ZergGirl has raised some very valid points there.

I feel that the main point is
"at 14:17 he looks at your marine at the 12 o clock position then your command centre at the top left."

If your game sense tells you there is an expansion at the top left, im pretty sure u dont zoom to that area on the minimap to take a glance and more suspiciously zoom right to a single marine standing at the 12 o clock position to see what unit that is without actually having vision of it.

I hope you'll explain yourself on the other points raised as well.

[ProAnnn]

I think you shouldnt judge one person on whether he is maphacking based on 1 game and through a few suspicious actions. Need more replays/ games to really judge.

Quick Comments

	TAEdgE:
	Champi:
	nirvAnA:
	iM MaFia:
	lolwut:

[Dox]

The replay is fairly incriminating.

[Nemo]

THIS IS CHEATING !
Here is the incredible sequence from Cosmos stream just after their game, Cosmos checked the replay and here is the most incriminating part with the comments :
http://www.justin.tv/nemoulysses/b/289420237
And a more detailed action with MeaNySPR chasing an invisible enemy Medivac:
http://www.justin.tv/nemoulysses/b/289421746

Full replay of the stream of Cosmos that day : http://www.justin.tv/becosmos/b/289268258

They played another game just after.

That was at the beginning just another random cheater on the Internet. Sad but no reason to waste time on the subject. I guess there are other Masters that cheat.

What drives me mad is the reaction of his friends. How the hell can you defend that ???

I took the time to make the highlights and I will spend even more time getting this case the publicity it deserves ...

Now MeaNySPR (meany here) had the chance to explain (look first page) and his denial was absolutely pathetic, The hidden CC ? "I like to send one or two stimed marines". 1 or 2 or ... 16 ?? And if it had been a PF ? The invisible Medivac ? "Oh I forgot to defend against drops" How conveeeeenient you caught them at the perfect time.

MeanNy, you choose to deny and let your friends make fools of themselves, you add to the shame of cheating the shame of letting your friends expose themselves.

You've been caught, there is no way you can get out of this without admitting cheating and apologising to Cosmos, community and your friends you fooled. There is no forgiveness without remorse.

I let you 24 hours before making it "worldwide". You will have no friends on other places where it will be found soon to defend you blindly as they did here. ... I won't if you admit and apologise.

Quick Comments

	TAEdgE:	When's episode 2?
	TAriiChard:	Don't need to crucify him.
	EveMassacrisM:
	V_enDetta:
	nirvAnA:
	lolwut:	smiley!

[Satu]

Originally Posted by Nemo

THIS IS CHEATING !
Here is the incredible sequence from Cosmos stream just after their game, Cosmos checked the replay and here is the most incriminating part with the comments :
http://www.justin.tv/nemoulysses/b/289420237
And a more detailed action with MeaNySPR chasing an invisible enemy Medivac:
http://www.justin.tv/nemoulysses/b/289421746

Full replay of the stream of Cosmos that day : http://www.justin.tv/becosmos/b/289268258

They played another game just after.

That was at the beginning just another random cheater on the Internet. Sad but no reason to waste time on the subject. I guess there are other Masters that cheat.

What drives me mad is the reaction of his friends. How the hell can you defend that ???

I took the time to make the highlights and I will spend even more time getting this case the publicity it deserves ...

Now MeaNySPR (meany here) had the chance to explain (look first page) and his denial was absolutely pathetic, The hidden CC ? "I like to send one or two stimed marines". 1 or 2 or ... 16 ?? And if it had been a PF ? The invisible Medivac ? "Oh I forgot to defend against drops" How conveeeeenient you caught them at the perfect time.

MeanNy, you choose to deny and let your friends make fools of themselves, you add to the shame of cheating the shame of letting your friends expose themselves.

You've been caught, there is no way you can get out of this without admitting cheating and apologising to Cosmos, community and your friends you fooled. There is no forgiveness without remorse.

I let you 24 hours before making it "worldwide". You will have no friends on other places where it will be found soon to defend you blindly as they did here. ... I won't if you admit and apologise.

Im confused, what happens after 24 hours, in which he doesn't admit hes a cheater?

Let me guess, you will be very, very sad?

As far as I and various others know, we've played legitimate games vs MeaNy, with nothing really hacker worthy. Thats why we're defending him. Hes not just some random person who has never contributed to the community and hacks for the lulz, hes a guy who people actually know. Hell, hes in a clan as well.

Also, thanks for the videos, its cool to see that cosmos saw just two small possibilities for hacking and then immediately claims MeaNy is a hacker.

[BaKaiNu]

Originally Posted by Zergtastic

Im confused, what happens after 24 hours, in which he doesn't admit hes a cheater?

Let me guess, you will be very, very sad?

As far as I and various others know, we've played legitimate games vs MeaNy, with nothing really hacker worthy. Thats why we're defending him. Hes not just some random person who has never contributed to the community and hacks for the lulz, hes a guy who people actually know. Hell, hes in a clan as well.

Also, thanks for the videos, its cool to see that cosmos saw just two small possibilities for hacking and then immediately claims MeaNy is a hacker.

I honestly don't like your reasoning. In your post, all your points are telling us that you are being biased because you apparently know the person. The fact here is you have to be objective in the judgement of this issue. How bout there is a possibility of meany getting ahold of the map hack just recently and decided to use it to gain a leverage on his opponent?

Two small possibilities for hacking is still possible hacks. It's like telling someone, oh, it is possible that the X person has murdered the Y person based on the bloody knife the X person is holding. Oh wait, I know that person. He would not do that! It's okay. His not the culprit.

Until meany could clearly explain himself, we shouldn't discount the possibilities.

+ [TL:DR] +

Zergtastic should never join law school for the best of the society.

[Satu]

Originally Posted by BakaInu

I honestly don't like your reasoning. In your post, all your points are telling us that you are being biased because you apparently know the person. The fact here is you have to be objective in the judgement of this issue. How bout there is a possibility of meany getting ahold of the map hack just recently and decided to use it to gain a leverage on his opponent?

Two small possibilities for hacking is still possible hacks. It's like telling someone, oh, it is possible that the X person has murdered the Y person based on the bloody knife the X person is holding. Oh wait, I know that person. He would not do that! It's okay. His not the culprit.

Until meany could clearly explain himself, we shouldn't discount the possibilities.

+ [TL:DR] +

Zergtastic should never join law school for the best of the society.

Didn't know we were treating this like law.

And no, its more like X person did Y? Well, hes never done Y in the past, so he has no reason to do Y now, especially seeing as how much he has to lose. Your example would be valid if MeaNy was a clear hacker, which hes not.

+ [TL:DR] +

BakaInu should never claim that anyone else should never join law school for the best of the society, based off contradictory arguements.

[rookie]

Originally Posted by Zergtastic

Im confused, what happens after 24 hours, in which he doesn't admit hes a cheater?

Let me guess, you will be very, very sad?

As far as I and various others know, we've played legitimate games vs MeaNy, with nothing really hacker worthy. Thats why we're defending him. Hes not just some random person who has never contributed to the community and hacks for the lulz, hes a guy who people actually know. Hell, hes in a clan as well.

Also, thanks for the videos, its cool to see that cosmos saw just two small possibilities for hacking and then immediately claims MeaNy is a hacker.

Just because u played legitimate games vs MeaNy, doesn't mean there isn't the possibility of him hacking afterwards. It could be that MeaNy hacked a SINGLE game the game vs cosmos. Nevertheless he is still a hacker.

That second video link is really ridiculous btw. Quite an evidence to maphacking IMO. Please watch it if you guys haven't.

[CCJester]

Firstly ill start with yes i have watched the replay and no im not going to comment on whether or not it could be map hacking.

I want to comment instead on what this thread has become. It feels now like some sort of witch hunt is underway and it is kind of sickening to see.
Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty and if one game is all the evidence there is... then are we willing to, as Tariichard put it, crucify him?

I think it should be considered that this is not just comments on a forum. This is dragging the reputation of a seemingly well respected member of the SC2SEA community through the dirt.

Yeah, if it turns out that a map hack was used then certainly steps should be taken. But this isn't the way to do it.

[pikk0n]

Isn't there a better way of phrasing the sentences without coming off as directly accusing the person as maphacking? I seen quite a few threads on maphackers and most players are really careful when accusing another player of maphacking even if there are concrete evidence. The OP was definitely too harsh.

That said, it's disappointing that we've got 1 person being trolled by 2 clans, which completely derailed the thread. Meany has said what he has to say and instead of letting things lie at that we're having one highly respected clan coming in to assist Meany's clan in trolling Cosmos.

Back to maphacking, if he was really suspected of maphacking, reporting him would have been the way to go and if Blizzard decides to check his account and finds that he really does hack, he'll be banned anyway so participation in tournaments here wouldn't matter. Of course, if he is not maphacking, Blizzard wouldn't ban his account so either way, it's much better than accusing someone in a public forum when even you yourself said that the evidence were inconclusive. Let's move on from this and let Blizzard handle the maphacking matters themselves.

[AvPoker]

I think we should take this to criminal court and have Cosmos and Homer prove Meany's guilt beyond reasonable doubt wearing fancy barrister wigs.

[pRoTimber]

its kinda obvious from the 2 video link, i would share cosmos grief..like ur comments in the video, "SERIOUSLY!?"

[[TA]LoSt]

Ladies, take it into PM if you two want to keep arguing pointlessly AT EACH OTHERS LEGAL ABILITIES like this. I'm sure if you weren't a moderator Nirvana would be laying the smackdown and issuing warnings; I've seen them issued for less.

Back on topic, I'm pretty sold unless MeaNy has something to say to defend himself. IMO I think SPR handled this incorrectly, they shouldn't have said anything until concrete evidence for or against MeaNy was discovered and discussed. If a TA member was found hacking with legitimate proof (like in this thread) the leaders would handle it correctly and not immediately rip shit on whoever is accusing them without considering the facts first. Now all we do is wait for MeaNy to come forward, admit or defend himself, and apologize. The longer this is drawn out, and if it is found later down the track that he really did hack, it will reflect poorly on MeaNy, the whole SPR clan and those here who blindly defended him without real facts.

[Xenomorph]

Originally Posted by [TA]LoSt

Back on topic, I'm pretty sold unless MeaNy has something to say to defend himself. IMO I think SPR handled this incorrectly, they shouldn't have said anything until concrete evidence for or against MeaNy was discovered and discussed. If a TA member was found hacking with legitimate proof (like in this thread) the leaders would handle it correctly and not immediately rip shit on whoever is accusing them without considering the facts first. Now all we do is wait for MeaNy to come forward, admit or defend himself, and apologize. The longer this is drawn out, and if it is found later down the track that he really did hack, it will reflect poorly on MeaNy, the whole SPR clan and those here who blindly defended him without real facts.

You are correct Lost. It was just a natural reaction by me and other members such as sungin and master to defend a member who we had been with for a very long time and had no suspiscion of hacking whatsoever before this game. However after looking at once particular point in the game which Zirggirl pointed out (14:17) we decided that hacking was a very real possibility and we apologise to the community and to cosmos for blindly defending him. We have been in much discussion about this issue but can't 100% conclude that he is hacking (to many areguements for and against). However please refer to masters post above.

Cheers,

XenomorphSPR

[Makra]

Rofl Bakainu, you think lawyers are supposed to be impartial and unbiased? I dare say Zergtastic would make a good lawyer :P

[BaKaiNu]

Originally Posted by Makra

Rofl Bakainu, you think lawyers are supposed to be impartial and unbiased? I dare say Zergtastic would make a good lawyer :P

I dare say that lawyers are suppose to be impartial and unbiased. Thats why we have bad lawyers.

Shall I say, case closed?

[Makra]

Originally Posted by BakaInu

I dare say that lawyers are suppose to be impartial and unbiased. Thats why we have bad lawyers.

Shall I say, case closed?

Um, no. Lawyers have a duty to represent their client as best as they can. That involves being biased towards the client. It is the judges who should be impartial and unbiased.

[EveMassacrisM]

I think it's better if Mods/Admins can have a few lines at the top of the thread to tell people to give comments only if they've watched the replay. Team reputation has nothing to do with individual conduct. I have played with quite a few SPRs myself but none of them were really all that suspicious.

Back to the replay, I'm gonna list down all smallest details that are suspicious about the game. Judge for yourself:

3:14 Amazing reaction on the SCV as if he saw the marine coming. If it were me controlling my worker would've been hit at least once.

7:06 Again, amazing Banshee reaction to avoid the marines with barely any sight.

11:57 Very suspiciously flips screen to the 6 o clock position checking out a random marine as if scouting for a drop with zero vision.

14:17 Again randomly checking the marine at the natural of the 2 oclock spawning position. Zero vision.

14:18 Very suspiciously LOOKING at the unscouted 3rd at the 11 oclock position.

18:39 Stimmed attack on unscouted expo due to correct assummption of his opponent following a popular trend.

18:55 Perfect defense of the drop cuz of game sense again with zero scouting.

19:53 Moving out like a boss with zero scouting even though he was shelled by his opponent's tanks seconds ago.

20:03 Scan right on top of his opponent's army at a pretty random position.

Overall, my say is that MeaNy is more likely to hack than not. If he really does not hack like he claims, then that was very impressive play by his part. Too impressive in fact.

[Satu]

Ok, I believe now that he hacked during this game. Looking at a marine through the fog of war, with no vision of it himself to check if its a drop and also moving his scouting scv away from the watchtower because a marine he didn't have vision of was moving there kinda gives it away. The original two things aren't as conclusive imo.

[masterspr]

Hello.

I am Master of the clan SPR. First time, actually I did not care about it that much because me and my clan members had many games with MeaNy and did not find any weird things.
However, after I watched the replay I just could not cover him because he is my clan member.I found some weird things in the replay too.
Me and some SPR members doubted him as a map-hacker and MeaNy decided to leave the team because he does not want to give bad images to SPR.
It is still not sure whether he is map-hacker or not and he left the clan already but It happened when MeaNy was in SPR clan. I apologize this happen to all (especially Cosmos) as a SPR master.

Quick Comments

	Dox:	respect
	Cute:
	SungInSPR:
	V_enDetta:	That's why you're the master and the other flaming SPR members who defended meany blindly aren't.
	nGenLight:
	lolwut:	That's why you're the master and the other flaming SPR members who defended meany blindly aren't.

[RockSPR]

Sorry cosmos!

Quick Comments

TAriiChard:

You should watch your language

[Dox]

Props to SPR for their recovery here, good to see mature and rational responses.

Quick Comments

	Nvdeth:
	TAavanar:

[[TA]LoSt]

Originally Posted by Dox

Props to SPR for their recovery here, good to see mature and rational responses.

Definitely. Quite a few of us are disappointed because he seemed like a good kid too.

[TAriiChard]

So MasterSPR is saying that MeaNy left clan SPR because he didn't want SPR to have a bad image.

RockSPR is saying that MeaNy left clan SPR because the clanmates didn't believe him when he tried to defend himself by saying that he wasn't a maphacker.

On a third note, MeaNy talked to me a while before this happened and told me that he was unhappy with being in clan SPR because he felt that a few of his clanmates were bullying him.


So what's the true story?

[Xenomorph]

Originally Posted by TAriiChard

So MasterSPR is saying that MeaNy left clan SPR because he didn't want SPR to have a bad image.

RockSPR is saying that MeaNy left clan SPR because the clanmates didn't believe him when he tried to defend himself by saying that he wasn't a maphacker.

On a third note, MeaNy talked to me a while before this happened and told me that he was unhappy with being in clan SPR because he felt that a few of his clanmates were bullying him.


So what's the true story?

A combination of those, Meany left because he didn't want SPR to have a bad image of hacking and that a few of the members ( I won't openly name them) weren't giving him the support he wanted/needed. Please don't get the idea that we're bullies, some of us were just really frustrated by this issue, and those members went the wrong way about it when talking to Meany and didn't consult me (the manager) before going ahead with it which really dissapointed me. But whats done is done, its meany's decision to leave and we wish him all the best considering the circumstances

Quick Comments

SungInSPR:

[Benji]

EDRAMA!

On a serious note, why is this thread still open?

[V_enDetta]

Benji I made a request to bakainu to reopen the thread when it was still at page 2 as I felt cosmos was being slammed uncessarily and unfairly for having a legit claim. Anyone that had watched the replay (including me) would have lost faith in the sc2sea community if it had just been left at that.

Anyway, now I think it's ready to be closed and I'm glad the injustice dealt to cosmos is undone!

Quick Comments

LennX:

Cooler heads prevail.

[nGenLight]

argh this makes me sick (possibilities of hacking out there)

[Homer]

I knew it... So is he being exiled?

[BaKaiNu]

Thread done and closed. Thank you for those that contributed.

[BaKaiNu]

Thread opened temporarily again, for Meany out of his request. Will close it again really soon. I will put a maximum timeframe of 12 hours for replies.

Any flames or derails will result in infractions.

[MeaNySPR]

I guess you guys are worried about the time frame when I looked at his marine and then his secret expansion. I wrote the explanation myself without having to look at replay because I knew what I was doing and I did not have to look at my own goddamn replay to figure out an artificial explanation. However, I had to watch the replay again out of Xenomorph's request and accusation that I watched a marine and a command center out of nowhere for that split time frame. I just didn't know what the heck he meant by a marine so I had to watch the replay. I had to admit, that it really did seem like I was maphacking. But here's the explanation that you guys would want to hear. If you check my command centers, none of them had enough mana for a scan. I cannot remember every single detail of what moving my camera to a certain spot meant, but I am definitely sure that I was attempting to give a scan. I didn't have to check the thread again because firstly, I needed not to care about such a ridiculous accusation. Secondly, I knew people would realize that the accusation is baseless. But I had to after my friends' notifying me and here I am trying to pointlessly explain myself. You doubters there can bring up so many "evidences" that I maphacked. Sending marines to scout and kill an expansion that I knew was out there, stimming marines back to my base because knowing that a drop would come after being contained, watching different spots of the map willing to scan. Well, I am sure if you guys watch anyone's replay, you can come up with a lot of similar little things to doubt about and conclude that he is a maphacker. Why don't you try to find evidences to show that the person is playing legitly? Maybe that would help to counter your doubts . Now, I really don't care whether you people think of me as a maphacker or not, because I know that my close friends and play mates out there know that I don't and that's what matters to me. As you can see, my clanmates didn't, and that's why I am leaving the clan. I'm not leaving the clan to prevent adulteration, because there's really no way for me to adulterate it as I have done nothing illegitimate. I am leaving the clan because I just couldn't believe how unsupportive the seemingly closest partners could be. I realized I deserved better and I am leaning to my other people who are definitely supportive of me. Thank you guys for participating in this thread and thank you a lot to those who know me and continue to believe in me. You guys are the best

Quick Comments

	clock:
	TAriiChard:
	TARane:

[EveMassacrisM]

1. None of the accusations made were baseless.

2. Let's just assume you were planning to scan at the natural at the 1 o' clock position at 14:17(Where the random scouting marine was). You clicked your CCs and attempted a scan but realized you had no energy. If you had no energy, would you mind explaining why you flip your screen immediately afterwards to Cosmos' expo at 11 o' clock when you knew you had no energy ?

Moreover, that still hasn't explained why you randomly flipped your screen to look at the scouting marine at the 6 o clock position at 11:57. Were you attempting to scan there too ?

3. Learn to use paragraphs.

Quick Comments

nirvAnA:

so good!

[deL]

When you're specifically looking for maphack proof a lot of random things can seem like proof all of a sudden. If MassacrisM's accusations are all true then surely someone who shows that much hacking behaviour would present proof in other replays/games.

If we can get from MeaNySPR the replays from immediately before and after the game in which he has been accused here and proof of the matchlist to show they are the right games we can make a better judgement.

Sure stimming before running into an unscouted expo is very suspicious but if he does that in like 30% of his games even when there is no expansion then maybe it means nothing.

[Nemo]

I won't post the vids anywhere else as the community has recovered its commun sense : At the very least everyone admit now that this is more than suscpiscious.

Now a message for Meany : You have still the choice between admiting and maintaining your version. I really think you should admit (not in the case you did not cheat, but frankly your defense is really poor nobody will be convinced, beleive me). This because if this thing go Internet (and the vids are pretty buzz material), you should really have apologised before.

As my probable last participation to this thread here is my guess of what happend: You were from a clan of very good players with sometimes "hard emulation", and you absolutely wanted to ease your position as the "one of the most fcking noob in [SPR] clan" (citing RockSPR (that was so nice from a friend btw, Rock I think you can apologise to your ex-mate whatever i does ...)). So you had the dream of beating a GrandMaster what you never did. To do that you obviously had to "artificially" increase your MMR to reach Grand Master level on ladder, then stop hacking to beat one GM (out of 5-6 matchs maybe) and then let your MMR stabilise again at his right level. You could then have you're "trophy" clean of MHack that could help you in your clan position.

Unfortunatelly, of course, you didn't knew when you were going to reach GM level and you were still hacking when you met Cosmos and you get caught.

This version is somewhat compliant with every part of the story we know (nice kid, have hard time in his clan, not usually a cheater, wanted to score a GM victory) and if it's true, you're still very forgivable if you admit. If you have cheated (what I personnally strongly beleive as you guess), that's really what I advise you to do even if you have sweared your closest friends that you have not. If they are, they will forgive the lie.

[TAriiChard]

Originally Posted by Nemo

I won't post the vids anywhere else as the community has recovered its commun sense : At the very least everyone admit now that this is more than suscpiscious.

Now a message for Meany : You have still the choice between admiting and maintaining your version. I really think you should admit (not in the case you did not cheat, but frankly your defense is really poor nobody will be convinced, beleive me). This because if this thing go Internet (and the vids are pretty buzz material), you should really have apologised before.

As my probable last participation to this thread here is my guess of what happend: You were from a clan of very good players with sometimes "hard emulation", and you absolutely wanted to ease your position as the "one of the most fcking noob in [SPR] clan" (citing RockSPR (that was so nice from a friend btw, Rock I think you can apologise to your ex-mate whatever i does ...)). So you had the dream of beating a GrandMaster what you never did. To do that you obviously had to "artificially" increase your MMR to reach Grand Master level on ladder, then stop hacking to beat one GM (out of 5-6 matchs maybe) and then let your MMR stabilise again at his right level. You could then have you're "trophy" clean of MHack that could help you in your clan position.

Unfortunatelly, of course, you didn't knew when you were going to reach GM level and you were still hacking when you met Cosmos and you get caught.

This version is somewhat compliant with every part of the story we know (nice kid, have hard time in his clan, not usually a cheater, wanted to score a GM victory) and if it's true, you're still very forgivable if you admit. If you have cheated (what I personnally strongly beleive as you guess), that's really what I advise you to do even if you have sweared your closest friends that you have not. If they are, they will forgive the lie.

Good story mate. Best story ever. You should write books. You're good. Where does it say he wants a GM victory? Your basically listing the reasons why he should admit to cheating ... But what if he didn't cheat? Why should he confess to something he didn't do?

[Aean(:]

Originally Posted by Nemo

I won't post the vids anywhere else as the community has recovered its commun sense : At the very least everyone admit now that this is more than suscpiscious.

Now a message for Meany : You have still the choice between admiting and maintaining your version. I really think you should admit (not in the case you did not cheat, but frankly your defense is really poor nobody will be convinced, beleive me). This because if this thing go Internet (and the vids are pretty buzz material), you should really have apologised before.

As my probable last participation to this thread here is my guess of what happend: You were from a clan of very good players with sometimes "hard emulation", and you absolutely wanted to ease your position as the "one of the most fcking noob in [SPR] clan" (citing RockSPR (that was so nice from a friend btw, Rock I think you can apologise to your ex-mate whatever i does ...)). So you had the dream of beating a GrandMaster what you never did. To do that you obviously had to "artificially" increase your MMR to reach Grand Master level on ladder, then stop hacking to beat one GM (out of 5-6 matchs maybe) and then let your MMR stabilise again at his right level. You could then have you're "trophy" clean of MHack that could help you in your clan position.

Unfortunatelly, of course, you didn't knew when you were going to reach GM level and you were still hacking when you met Cosmos and you get caught.

This version is somewhat compliant with every part of the story we know (nice kid, have hard time in his clan, not usually a cheater, wanted to score a GM victory) and if it's true, you're still very forgivable if you admit. If you have cheated (what I personnally strongly beleive as you guess), that's really what I advise you to do even if you have sweared your closest friends that you have not. If they are, they will forgive the lie.

Lol wtf is up with the GM story i dont get it -_______-'

ANYWAY-
With all the hype going on in this thread, i'd thought i check the replay out myself. The reaction of MeaNy's was incredible (my latency to the server isnt even that fast..... -___-).
I noted something strange with his first banshee going towards Cosmos' base: MeaNy's apm drops to almost 0 when the banshee was nearing the marines (like.. preparing to react and move back). I dont know though, you could always set yourself to be ready once you reach their natural or something.. (with banshee play).
The medivac drop was hard to believe too. I mean I wouldve sent it circumnavigating the map to check for all possible proxy locations instead of just that one corner (he did see the scv going towards there, but really.. who believes a base is there 5minutes after that happens).

@MeaNy
GL to wherever you head with starcraft. Sad to see you depart with your team.

[deL]

Why wouldn't he just get someone to play on his account up to GM MMR?

[Nemo]

Originally Posted by meany

oh wow man you must have been really pissed off because you just lost to a master league noob and gave so much points away! I really thank you for that because I was really aspiring to beat a grandmaster in a long while.

There.

If he did not cheat, he should not admit of course, what ever the pressure. But if he did, that will be really the safest path for him to admit.

[Fourby]

TBH at the speed that he looked at both the locations (the CC and marine), What meany is saying is actually quite viable.
(yes i watched the replay, esp taking notice of the points pointed out by zerggirl)

He would have tried to scan both places almost instantaneously one after the other to try locate the CC from the running scv he saw earlier running northward from the XN tower. (assuming he saw it on the minimap).. At the APM he was playing at he most likely didnt have the time to think between both locations: "oh shit i have no energy im not going to try scan the other spot now"

I have watched the replay and that point in the replay was most concerning and i was leaning to believing he actually hacked, but now after his explanation, I believe he may very well be innocent. (ofcourse this is just my opinion)

Just for an example for those who refuse to understand what I am saying.

- If you have a bunch of energy in your nexus's mid-late game stored up and you see a push coming and need more units (protoss), you will just spam 'c' on all your warpgates, If you have 6 gates and only ~110 energy over a few nexus's, your going to still spam them on all of your warpgates regardless

At that point do you sit there and count your exact energy? No.. you try get that chrono and if you dont then BL for you.

-i could use an example for Z but its 3am and i cbf, i think you get the point.

among the other things he was doing, he would have just tried to quickly scan the locations.. and it turns out he didnt have the energy BL.

'2. Let's just assume you were planning to scan at the natural at the 1 o' clock position at 14:17(Where the random scouting marine was). You clicked your CCs and attempted a scan but realized you had no energy. If you had no energy, would you mind explaining why you flip your screen immediately afterwards to Cosmos' expo at 11 o' clock when you knew you had no energy ?'

Yeh it happened extremely fast, would would have tried to just scan both locations as fast as he can soo... idk.

As the others have said it would take more replays to really confirm anything. Alot more imo.

[V_enDetta]

Originally Posted by Fourby

TBH at the speed that he looked at both the locations (the CC and marine), What meany is saying is actually quite viable.
(yes i watched the replay, esp taking notice of the points pointed out by zerggirl)

He would have tried to scan both places almost instantaneously one after the other to try locate the CC from the running scv he saw earlier running northward from the XN tower. (assuming he saw it on the minimap).. At the APM he was playing at he most likely didnt have the time to think between both locations: "oh shit i have no energy im not going to try scan the other spot now"

I have watched the replay and that point in the replay was most concerning and i was leaning to believing he actually hacked, but now after his explanation, I believe he may very well be innocent. (ofcourse this is just my opinion)

Just for an example for those who refuse to understand what I am saying.

- If you have a bunch of energy in your nexus's mid-late game stored up and you see a push coming and need more units (protoss), you will just spam 'c' on all your warpgates, If you have 6 gates and only ~110 energy over a few nexus's, your going to still spam them on all of your warpgates regardless

At that point do you sit there and count your exact energy? No.. you try get that chrono and if you dont then BL for you.

-i could use an example for Z but its 3am and i cbf, i think you get the point.

among the other things he was doing, he would have just tried to quickly scan the locations.. and it turns out he didnt have the energy BL.

'2. Let's just assume you were planning to scan at the natural at the 1 o' clock position at 14:17(Where the random scouting marine was). You clicked your CCs and attempted a scan but realized you had no energy. If you had no energy, would you mind explaining why you flip your screen immediately afterwards to Cosmos' expo at 11 o' clock when you knew you had no energy ?'

Yeh it happened extremely fast, would would have tried to just scan both locations as fast as he can soo... idk.

As the others have said it would take more replays to really confirm anything. Alot more imo.

Fourby I'm sorry but I have to counter your entire argument with a few sentences.

1. Meany zoomed to the only 2 expansions out of ALL the expansions in the map, where Cosmos had a unit/building placed.

2. He totally left out the expansion in between the CC and the marine, which is weird as you'll expect your opposition to expand at that one instead of where the marine was.

If those two points (especially the first one) aren't obvious enough, not considering the stimmed marines running down his base to counter the drops by cosmos, I don't know what is.

[Dox]

I'm with deL! Just post a few more replays and it'll clear everything up. Or as the phrase went many years ago, Do it on LAN.

[deL]

Is Nemo just Cosmos' smurf?

Quick Comments

lolwut:

:(

[TAriiChard]

Originally Posted by TAdeL

Is Nemo just Cosmos' smurf?

lol Nemo's account was just made today. He uses a lot of brackets just like Cosmos but Nemo's English is pretty bad compared to Cosmos' English. hmmm conspiracy

[Nemo]

Originally Posted by TAdeL

Is Nemo just Cosmos' smurf?

No. I'm obviously a Cosmos stream viewer, but whoever I am is irrelevant. I don't speak in anyone name either.

Edit : By the way, he is streaming now and playing RsSPR on ladder ... They seem friendly, they chated a bit.

Edit 2 : RsSPR won. Nice game.

Quick Comments

deL:

Words of guilt.

[myth_au]

I will watch the replay when i get home and comment.

But on another note, i am interested to know, why do people maphack on multiplayer? Personally, i don't understand where the 'achievement' is in cheating (which map hacks are).

It has only ever happened to me once and i just moved on. Like seriously, its a ladder game its not a tournament, or WCG or anything major. I am sure anything major like that there are strict rules. In those instances, there are serious consequences and possible community backlash. But over a ladder game?

I guess the possible argument is cosmos is bringing it to the attention of the community before it gets to those major events.

[SnoWPanda]

This was in the masters cup from a couple days ago. after looking through this thread, I watched my replay with MeaNy closely.

I don't play Terran so maybe its just game sense but the scans just seem to me to cover his map hack. He had really SUS scans. EVERY scan caught the CENTER of SOMETHING.

6:20ish - center of my warp prism (special tactics fail)
8:30ish - center on my robo support bay
13 minute - scans my third when his army in middle of map and promptly kills it
19 minute - scans center of my army

EDIT: attached replay

[TAriiChard]

Originally Posted by SnoWPanda

This was in the masters cup from a couple days ago. after looking through this thread, I watched my replay with MeaNy closely.

I don't play Terran so maybe its just game sense but the scans just seem to me to cover his map hack. He had really SUS scans. EVERY scan caught the CENTER of SOMETHING.



EDIT: attached replay

WOW! So basically the thread started with the accusations of MeaNy not scanning/scouting leading to MeaNy being called a hacker... Now you're saying that he scans to hide the fact that he's a hacker??

[Dox]

Originally Posted by SnoWPanda

This was in the masters cup from a couple days ago. after looking through this thread, I watched my replay with MeaNy closely.

I don't play Terran so maybe its just game sense but the scans just seem to me to cover his map hack. He had really SUS scans. EVERY scan caught the CENTER of SOMETHING.

6:20ish - center of my warp prism (special tactics fail)
8:30ish - center on my robo support bay
13 minute - scans my third when his army in middle of map and promptly kills it
19 minute - scans center of my army

EDIT: attached replay

I haven't watched your replay yet, but please consider something. No-one would be silly enough to maphack in a tournament being hosted by the same website/community where he is actively being investigated for maphacking.

Quick Comments

nirvAnA:

haha good point. unless hes meta gaming u! :)

[dippa]

Originally Posted by Dox

I haven't watched your replay yet, but please consider something. No-one would be silly enough to maphack in a tournament being hosted by the same website/community where he is actively being investigated for maphacking.

dont underestimate the stupidity of cheaters.

[SayfT]

Originally Posted by Dox

I haven't watched your replay yet, but please consider something. No-one would be silly enough to maphack in a tournament being hosted by the same website/community where he is actively being investigated for maphacking.

We had a couple of tools smurfing in GPD tourneys before, people's craving to win can make em do some silly stuff :P

[FaDeBadger]

Watched the replay against SnoWPanda and none of that seemed suss to me.

Scanning at 6:20ish is a perfectly reasonable time to scan to see if you had your natural left. I would be happy to say that it was just lucky coincidence that your warp prism happened to be there.

Scanning the centre of your base at 8:30ish is again perfectly reasonable to see what tech path you are choosing. The fact that it was right over your support bay was more due to the fact you put it right in the middle of your base imo.

Why would he not scan for a 3rd? I probably would have just stimmed a marine and ran it there but scanning works too.

Don't know about the last one, does seem like an odd spot to scan. But I'm not willing to say he map hacks when the other scans seemed legit. Especially when he had scans that missed everything of note.

[SnoWPanda]

i agree with everything except

no he did NOT missed a single scan

lucky scans for sure but right on the CENTER of the target esp the warp prism???

[FaDeBadger]

Like I said, imo he was scanning to see if you had expanded and your warp prism just happened to be there. And yes he did have scans where they showed nothing, I saw at least one scan of your natural ramp where your army wasn't even there.

~Edit: I would have sent my warp prism the other way, especially at that time for that exact reason. It's not an uncommon time or place to scan.

[nard]

If u watched cosmos' replay u would have noticed that his scans while moving his army out are right on the money too. But that isn't indicative of a maphack. He may have been trying to hide the fact that he maphacks but it's best to present more conclusive evidence rather than something that may very well be attributed to luck and good game sense.

[nGenLight]

I don't know the random stimming of marines to defend the drop was VERY suss. My question is how do we get conclusive evidence for something like this, or are these cases going to be decided by majority opinion.

[nard]

Originally Posted by nGenLight

I don't know the random stimming of marines to defend the drop was VERY suss. My question is how do we get conclusive evidence for something like this, or are these cases going to be decided by majority opinion.

I was just referring to the scans. As for the stimmed marines to defend the drop, it is suspicious but I'm not qualified to comment on whether he's cheating or not cos
I'm probably nowhere near meany's level of play

[Tom]

I say majority opinion. There just ain't no justice like lynch mob justice!

In all seriousness though, I guess we just have to hope Blizzard is good enough at picking these up and banning promptly. Reporting players is never going to work given the amount of people out there with an axe to grind (no reference to anyone in the present thread intended). Seems like they have bigger fish to fry at the moment with the drop hacking.

So long as all Blizzard can do is ban accounts, the prevalence of hacking will remain high because the risk/cost of getting caught just doesn't outweigh the benefit of hacking (get caught = buy a new account). Just as a point of interest for the budding lawyers in this thread, there are criminal penalties in Australia that attach to interference with so-called "moral rights" (which include the right of integrity of a literary work such as programming code). Theoretically, a criminal prosecution could be brought against people using "hacks" in Australia. That would really give people something to think about, but realistically the probability of this occurring is low.

[clock]

at the time in question (14:33 or something) when he looks at fog of war at marine and hidden expo, I would like to note that he DOES select his command centre, i think this is an important point because if he didnt, there would be no way that he attempted to scan.

HOWEVER, he only selects his CC for a very very small amount of time, even on Normal speed it flashes away like a lightning flash.... is this long enough to try and hit "c click" or is it just a "spam" reflex? (quite common with apm that high)

also, when i scan i will always click on the minimap for expo scans like that to save time.

not long after (just after he kills marine at expo in the 15th minute) he also looks at fog directly over the opponents army. at this point he does not select his command centre, nor issue any kind of attack move that i can see. fuirther to this point, he just called down 2 mules and would be well aware he does not have a scan anyway (at least i would in that short space of time) watch it on normal speed and you will see what I mean

If anyone gets what im saying and wants to investigate the selections further please do so.

[TargA]

i say we hang him

[Fourby]

lol targa, you would... SEA isnt norway, its just not how its done anymore man lol

[myth_au]

Okay i finally got a chance to watch the replay submitted (Cosmos v Meany).

I think he is map hacking. For the following REASONS:

1. At about 5.40 he randomly looks at Cosmos's base. I do not believe that he was gonna scan at that time. If you look at his control he has the CC selected for like 10 sec and he knows there is insufficient energy (energy was only at 30 and he clearly knew it).

2. 11.22 he moves his army to try and stop the vikings. (Although this isnt really conclusive it does look suss).

3. 11.56 he moves intot he fog of war right at a marine.... Seriously?!

4. 12.45 he again goes to the fog of war right a marine. But in this instance he does do a move command, which he later stops. So not has pursuasive.

5. 14.17 he clickes into a fog of war right where a marine is again. Does not command. At the time he had his tanks select and its a mile away.

6. 14.20 he clickes again into a fog of war right on top of a CC seriously?!

BTW just before 5 and 6 he selected his CC before so i think he knew there was no energy but if he didnt i would've though when he selected one area and the scan didnt go off why would he want to click in another random area just right after?!
I am getting a feeling that this guy is either has a rabbit foot or a four leave clover?!!!

7.18.40 he attacks the hidden cc at the 10 O'Clock blindly and even stims... o.O

8. 19.00 he randomly runs his marines to his main before not even spotting the drop...

there are instanecs where it does look abit strange but i don't think it supports the idea that he map hacks, such as saving his scouting scv. his vision supports that he saw the marine so yea and the attack of the marine at his 3rd etc.

but i think the above are pursuasive arguements as to why he was map hacking. Hope the above helps.

But i woudl like to say i do think Meany was gonna win even without the maphacks just looking at supply. I do hope he doesnt do it in tournies =(

[BeCosmos]

I appreciate your messages, Rock and Master. I would have probably react the same way most people did on this thread if it was one of my friends with which I would have done tons of games (and mostly wins) who was accused of cheating.

It was mostly my fault if the thread resulted in flame against me at start. I shouldn't have post too quickly. I should have analyze the replay better to add all the informations like (for example) Myth_au did. And I should aswell have write it in a less "offensive" way.

Please do keep in mind that my main server isn't SEA and that I reported the player here for the SEA community ONLY. I never took part in any SEA tournament and because of my delay on the SEA server I consider it more like a warmup than my real practice server.

I want to tell you aswell that I come from warcraft 3 and the game died because of cheaters (for example, if you make a 10 wins streak on the ladder, you will ALWAYS be matchedl against a cheater) so everyone was aware of the hackers and it wasn't even a surprise when hackers were discovered (even in tournament).
Because of that wc3 background I didn't expect you guys to be skeptical about cheating and I should have refine my post.

I now consider this "case" closed and I hope to meet you guys on ladder, SEA you !

[BaKaiNu]

Case Closed.