[NvRossi]

This Sunday the 15/05/11 and 22/05/11 Intime Cyber Cafe(Host and Partner of NRG) will host a new 2v2 Tournament in order to grow Sydney's Starcraft 2 community.

Begins at 3pm- (please arrive around 10 minutes early)
Where: Level 2, 2 Cunningham St
Haymaket
NSW
2000
Sydney

Fee: $2.5/hr (Using InTime computers)

Mode: 2v2 (Teams will be random in order to minimize team stacking, teams can also change in the 2nd week)
Matches will be Bo3
Scoring will be similar to the weekly Ranking League based on
30 Points for the win
10 Points for the loss
You can only play each player once per week. (to avoid win trading)
The team with the highest points at the end of the day will win.

Prize: 1st place $50 cash + shop credit
2nd place $50 cash + shop credit

If you want to register please email yoyo.zhang@intimegroups.com or you can register on the day. (you can also leave your ID here and i will email your names through)



Come and join us!

[Hocus]

intime host sick good tournys, shame im in melbourne =[

[deL]

TAdeL is down, also TA boys if you wanna prac up hit me up on bnet for some 2v2s. Totes getting some tips/reps off Optikzero :P

BTW might want to mention that bringing your own gear is allowed!

The peripherals they have there are Razer mouses and a Razer Lycosa keyboard I think. I forget what type of Razer mouse it is but it's a little smaller than krait. Also those used to large mousepads like the Razer ones might want to BYO because the AOC mousepads are quite small.

[Benji]

Mode: 2v2 (Teams will be random in order to minimize team stacking, teams can also change in the 2nd week)

Change this.

[deL]

Originally Posted by Benji

Change this.

No.

There are points for losses. I am sure if you get placed with a total bronze player on the day you could reason with the staff about putting them with another bronze so they can play "for fun".

[iM tgun]

Originally Posted by deL

No.

There are points for losses. I am sure if you get placed with a total bronze player on the day you could reason with the staff about putting them with another bronze so they can play "for fun".

Kind of annoying, since the majority of 2v2 is communication and practiced strategies. How are you going to form team synergy with someone whom you haven't played with?

[deL]

Originally Posted by tgun

Kind of annoying, since the majority of 2v2 is communication and practiced strategies. How are you going to form team synergy with someone whom you haven't played with?

Well it tests some more skills - your leadership and communication

Originally Posted by Benji

If you put a $50 prize, it seems pretty retarded that we have to not only pay to play there, but also be forced to play with randoms and thus instead of having fun, we get frustrated playing with someone we don't like/isnt good/is the wrong race/haven't practiced with.

Some people go there for fun and you can't cater to everyone - having teams of grandmasters destroying people who just want a couple games in a friendly atmosphere is less appealing to some people. I would say the focus is on fun as you're not going to make a living out of this. As some of the prize is in store credit you can use that to play in future events there, such as the 1v1 if 2v2 is not your cup of tea and thus basically waive the entrance fee. It rewards long term participation (trying to create a 'culture' around using net cafes, I guess - they are not a charity event) and your returns increase with repeated participation if you do well - today for me it was only $5 and I was close to a prize so it's hardly ground breaking. If you won the store credit once that probably covers all your play in tourneys for a couple months.

Also, is it the same 2v2 team the whole day or do the 2v2 players mix up partners after a couple Bo3s? That might work out a bit fairer.

[Benji]

Originally Posted by deL

No.

There are points for losses. I am sure if you get placed with a total bronze player on the day you could reason with the staff about putting them with another bronze so they can play "for fun".

If you put a $50 prize, it seems pretty retarded that we have to not only pay to play there, but also be forced to play with randoms and thus instead of having fun, we get frustrated playing with someone we don't like/isnt good/is the wrong race/haven't practiced with.

[Benji]

You can cater for everyone. Have winners play winners, and losers play losers so after the first round or 2, people are playing other teams that have similar results, and hopefully skill, whilst still catering for those of us who wish to take it a little more seriously.

I'm obviously not going to make a living out of it, but where a cash prize is offered, it creates more motivation to win, and with that comes frustration when your teammate is not playing at a level which you are happy with. I have fun playing 2v2's with friends, I hate nothing more than playing Random 2v2's.

[deL]

Originally Posted by Benji

You can cater for everyone. Have winners play winners, and losers play losers so after the first round or 2, people are playing other teams that have similar results, and hopefully skill, whilst still catering for those of us who wish to take it a little more seriously.

I'm obviously not going to make a living out of it, but where a cash prize is offered, it creates more motivation to win, and with that comes frustration when your teammate is not playing at a level which you are happy with. I have fun playing 2v2's with friends, I hate nothing more than playing Random 2v2's.

I already suggested this swiss style to them so winners play winners, etc. but because people show up at different times (you can turn up at 4 or 5pm and still play - it's flexible in that you can just duck in to have 2-3 games) the swiss format is not possible. Also, swiss style requires that you wait until one round is complete before you move on to the next which would cause delays.

This works more like one big group stage so you will end up playing against most other skill levels anyway and remember you get points for a loss so you can make up for a lower ranked opponent by going for quick, cheesy games and getting a lot of them played to pick up points for losses and a few wins.

[aztecx]

Meh I might make it but I'm pretty tilted after the recent ladder hotfix. See how I feel on the day and if I can be fucked nerding it up.

[Tom]

Well I was discussing this with the organisers yesterday, and the idea is for the ladder to be open to everyone and aimed more at the social rather than super competitive level.

I can actually see a lot of positives from hosting a ladder this way. In particular, there is a great chance for lower league players to pick up tips and team strategies from Masters and Grandmasters players. If you are diamond or below, I would really recommend coming along - you can team up with Grandmasters and have a good chance of bashing some really top level players!

[|Erasmus|]

Originally Posted by Tom

I can actually see a lot of positives from hosting a ladder this way. In particular, there is a great chance for lower league players to pick up tips and team strategies from Masters and Grandmasters players. If you are diamond or below, I would really recommend coming along - you can team up with Grandmasters and have a good chance of bashing some really top level players!

It's randomized anyway, so GMs should have as much chance of getting paired with other GM players regardless.

As one of said terribad players, I think I'm free on Sunday, and it does sound like fun to maybe come play some SC with other people from here.

Hope I get paired up with Benji if I do. .

[Benji]

So you're also saying in theory that I could lose every game and still win the tourney?

[TAriiChard]

IMO. I believe the format of having a random team mate is good for the internet cafe as it helps avoid stacked teams. Lets say teams are prearranged and 2 high grand masters team up and absolutely embarass a team of bronze players, this won't benefit the internet cafe as the bronze players will be having "less fun" and then there's a chance that they won't turn up the following week.

Sure, there is money involved and that some people may take 2v2 seriously but I believe tournaments like this will help the Starcraft 2 community in Sydney grow. Why would it help it grow? Because teams will be randomized meaning that players will get to know each other better. As corny as it sounds, more friendships can be formed with a lot of knowledge about Starcraft 2 being able to be shared from player to player.



Just my 2 cents.

TAriiChard

[Tom]

That's correct in theory Benji. Assuming the same 30 points for win 10 points for loss system, you would need to play three times as many games as someone who won all their games. Nonetheless it is possible.

I raised this issue as well. The answer is that this is not a highly competitive tournament, it is a social ladder where entrants will be able to go head to head with some great/sponsored tournament players.

[deL]

I'd agree with Benji if this was like a $500+ one-off event. You have to make it fair to the competitive level, but this is for fun and the format reflects this - maximising the fun and social atmosphere.

Originally Posted by Benji

So you're also saying in theory that I could lose every game and still win the tourney?

Yes, if you play more games than the other players it is a mathematical possibility. Like I said, you can probably negotiate if you are masters and get a bronze opponent, and at the very least you could argue your case the next week. In that case it would be your own fault that you lost every game.

[Tom]

Btw riichard, I'm bring my chess set and clock. Are you ready for some lightning?! ;P

[TAriiChard]

Originally Posted by Tom

Btw riichard, I'm bring my chess set and clock. Are you ready for some lightning?! ;P

haha. give give me a handicap yeah? a few extra minutes?? I haven't played in yeeears!


did you end up catching up on sleep?

[iM tgun]

How random is ''random''? Because if it is true random, you're still going to end up with ridiculous clusterfucks where two high level players will team up. It should, in all honesty, just be an average of the two players ladder ratings or something.

[TAriiChard]

Originally Posted by tgun

How random is ''random''? Because if it is true random, you're still going to end up with ridiculous clusterfucks where two high level players will team up. It should, in all honesty, just be an average of the two players ladder ratings or something.

By random they mean "drawing a number from a hat" like how it was done in the previous 4v4 ladder tournament. You're correct, there may still be two high level players randomly teaming up thus why teams will be randomly chosen again the following week.


Sure, putting players together through averaging their skill may work but some players who aren't grand masters or even masters are awesome at team games "eg. Del who's in Diamond". Unless we can get a solid 2v2 ranking system going where we can determine who's the best and worst 2v2 players then I think it would be difficult to make teams out of an average skill level.


Maybe Intime could make teams in the 2nd week where the number 1 ranked player from the first week will be teamed up with the last placed player from the previos week?

[iM tgun]

Iunno, the whole system seems kind of sketchy. You'll achieve one goal, which is widening the community and creating a more 'fun' environment, but you're also lowering the skill involved, as a lot of 2v2 strategies are developed with a teammate over time. Also, what if your teammate has to bail mid-way through the day, do you have to piss off yourself, or wait around for someone else to show up?

The system itself seems flawed in so many ways.

[|Erasmus|]

Originally Posted by tgun

Iunno, the whole system seems kind of sketchy. You'll achieve one goal, which is widening the community and creating a more 'fun' environment, but you're also lowering the skill involved, as a lot of 2v2 strategies are developed with a teammate over time. Also, what if your teammate has to bail mid-way through the day, do you have to piss off yourself, or wait around for someone else to show up?

The system itself seems flawed in so many ways.

See, I think this type of ladder should be done with a new pair each round (even though that does completely ruin the whole developing a team strategy over time) so that you have all players with a similar w/l ratio pairing up.

Actually, I guess that is somewhat similar to 2v2 random on ladder, but w/e. I doubt a very small prize 2v2 tourney is supposed to be the ultimate test of skill to begin with (says the guy with no hope of winning to begin with).

[Tom]

Originally Posted by tgun

You'll achieve one goal, which is widening the community and creating a more 'fun' environment, but you're also lowering the skill involved, as a lot of 2v2 strategies are developed with a teammate over time.

Agree with this plus previous points, tgun. As you have said, the level of competition has been sacrificed to some degree to create a more fun environment, which I think is fair enough. At some time in the future I'd also like to have a full-blown 2v2 lan tournament to showcase 2v2.

riichard I'll give you a queen start ;p

[TAriiChard]

Originally Posted by Tom

riichard I'll give you a queen start ;p

ROFLL!!! god I'm not that bad!! It's on . I'm taking you down.

[deL]

Again, reshuffling teams each round has the same benefits and problems as swiss style tournaments - you basically need most people or everyone to finish the previous round to progress. By playing it out the way it's currently structured you basically play non-stop games and maximise the number of games you play in that time, which is part of what a ladder is.

If everyone turned up on time at the start I would argue that it's best to play it out swiss style or in set rounds with a new randomised or seeded partner each round but that doesn't really accommodate new people turning up at 4 or 5pm to get a few games in and see their friends.

[NvRossi]

im joining in on the chess

[|Erasmus|]

I haven't played much chess for years, but I've probably got a better chance of winning games of that than SC against you guys.

[TAriiChard]

ROFLMAO HOLY SHIT! did we just turn this into a chess tournament?!?!

[wish]

omg chess :O

[deL]

Can't make this after all.

[SayfT]

i will join their next 1v1 tourney/lan for sure but nooooooooooooooooo this one has to be 2v2