[iMSystem]

Is it just me, or is the NA ladder much easier than the SEA one.
Granted I have only hit platinum in both ladders, but today I made a NA account to play zerg for the luls, and got placed in plat after the 5 matches.

Whereas in SEA im in plat by playing terran my main race and im finding it much harder than it is on NA when im playing a race i never play.

Anyone else notice this ?

[Max]

A simple yet unreliable theory is;

1. More people = More noobs
2. More peope = More pros

Thus being said, lower levels you may find easier, higher levels you may find harder.

[NDG.Stitch]

NA's silver-low diamond is easy, but when u get higher, its much harder than SEA.

[Tom]

My personal experience is that there was more time wading through newbies simply because the player base is so much larger, and hence the top players get much higher points/MMR (in the same way as increasing the base of the pyramid increases its height).

Once you start playing top 200 players, they are very strong (anyone in NA top 200 feels to me on par with top 20 SEA)

[ToRSpartaz]

I agree with Stitch, the lower leagues for SEA are a lot higher quality than NA, this is due to more people like I am quite a good example myself.

SEA = Silver
NA = Diamond

[ke_ivan]

agree. lower lvls in sea are much, much harder.

[UncleTom]

This is because you started playing on your SEA account first when you were little bronze players, so the MMR is a lot worse because you have way more loses and lower ranked games etc, etc, etc.....Then when you play on N/A on your brand new account you can beat the noobs and get goodz MMR ez ez.

[Benji]

Originally Posted by Spartaz

I agree with Stitch, the lower leagues for SEA are a lot higher quality than NA, this is due to more people like I am quite a good example myself.

SEA = Silver
NA = Diamond

Its not that drastic, you just havent played enough on one of the servers.

[ToRSpartaz]

Originally Posted by Benji

Its not that drastic, you just havent played enough on one of the servers.

Nah its not really, but i have played around 40ish on NA and ive won roughly 28 out of 40ish games, I mainly play in SEA, but as I said its just an example of the difference between the Servers xD

[Benji]

Originally Posted by Spartaz

Nah its not really, but i have played around 40ish on NA and ive won roughly 28 out of 40ish games, I mainly play in SEA, but as I said its just an example of the difference between the Servers xD

Under 100 games = useless data.

[rezyn8]

Hmm maybe thats why I am still in Bronze (sif). Might have to try NA sometime but I want to keep the SEA community going.

[Benji]

Pro Tip: Doesnt matter if youre Bronze on SEA and Diamond on NA, your skill at the game is exactly the same, you don't suddenly play better on NA.

[rezyn8]

I agree Benji - but it would be nice to get out of Bronze

[UncleTom]

What if the symbol of your league gives you the power to play really well, when you see that sparkling diamond you feel you can win forever forever, but when you log on to you lower server account you see the dark sombre bronze, it makes you sick it makes you hate yourself, "bronze loser you just a fat loser" it effects your mental state and you play worse because of it. So when Benji says bronze=diamond I will have to diagreee.

Quick Comments

ToRRedemption:

I laughed too hard at that

[Benji]

Originally Posted by UncleTom

What if the symbol of your league gives you the power to play really well, when you see that sparkling diamond you feel you can win forever forever, but when you log on to you lower server account you see the dark sombre bronze, it makes you sick it makes you hate yourself, "bronze loser you just a fat loser" it effects your mental state and you play worse because of it. So when Benji says bronze=diamond I will have to diagreee.

You misunderstand my point

[dennistoo]

But NA is very laggy. So badly lagged that can't even micro. But i've to agree that NA is easy compared to SEA.

[iMSystem]

I was just wondering if everyone noticed the same thing and it seems that they have.

I realize that more people on the NA means that the skill level will be spread out not as much as what it is for SEA.
What I didn't expect was how much the skill differential between the two is. I would have expected, our bronze to be their silver, like one league up, not two or three.
And so much that I can play an entire off race with just basic knowledge and still perform well.

[UncleTom]

Well there is about 2million people on NA and about 100k on SEA, so Its kind of a difference.

[dennistoo]

SEA players are full of cheesy builts and are super aggressive in the first 5 to 7min mark. I personally feel that the Diamond ranked players there are equivalent to our SEA Plat players here IMO. Let's say a PvP 4G vs 4G, i was far behind and yet can totally streamroll my NA opp with ease and needless to say with the massive lag on our end.

Well, it could be subjective tho..

[Makra]

Ha, its funny this thread came up. Yesterday on Benji's stream a bunch of Yanks were trying to argue that all NA leagues have better players than the SEA counterparts. Some were saying that the games they were watching with YJY and iceiceice were equivalent to NA plat or diamond games. I don't play on NA much but the impression I get is that NA players are only better at the very top. And this seems to confirm it: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=187230


BTW spartaz are you saying you're actually Silver in SEA and Diamond in NA?

[cruxis]

No one has mentioned the number 1 reason it's easier over there. It's because the NA server is full of stupid people from the states.

[Xeen]

Originally Posted by cruxis

No one has mentioned the number 1 reason it's easier over there. It's because the NA server is full of stupid people from the states.

SEA keyboard warriors up in this biatch

[ZergGirl]

ZvZ on SEA sucks pretty badly, so damn cheesy.
Zerg on NA now macro ZvZ! never will you have as much fun~

so NA > SEA. DONE.

[Benji]

Originally Posted by ZergGirl

ZvZ on SEA sucks pretty badly, so damn cheesy.
Zerg on NA now macro ZvZ! never will you have as much fun~

so NA > SEA. DONE.

Thats because you never play me zvz

[ZergGirl]

You dodge me benji.

[Benji]

Originally Posted by ZergGirl

You dodge me benji.

As if! You're always doing team games :P

Well I challenge you to a Bo21! Endurance series! :P

[cruxis]

Yesterday I saw how bad it really was. I was Gold, facing a favoured Plat. He opened 2 rax, but didn't pressure me until he had about 10 hellions as well. Demolished his first attack. Wait a bit, see he has 10 more hellions sitting on my creep, send mutas to attack them. He just leaves them there to die.

[ke_ivan]

Well as Day9 would say: Leagues are not a benchmark of your skill; rather they are a benchmark for improvement. There's no such thing as "I'm in bronze league, but really I play like a silver." If you're in Bronze, you're in Bronze. But if you climb a league, that means you've improved.

[ZergGirl]

@benji
You've said it and I'll ask nirvana (or whoever lol) for logs if you try to wimp out with an edit.

[Benji]

Originally Posted by ZergGirl

@benji
You've said it and I'll ask nirvana (or whoever lol) for logs if you try to wimp out with an edit.

I'm not going to wimp out, make sure you find some time between your 4v4 for 11 games (caus its going to be 11-0 )

[ZergGirl]

Originally Posted by Benji

I'm not going to wimp out, make sure you find some time between your 4v4 for 11 games (caus its going to be 11-0 )

Quit derailing the thread omg!
And I've done like 15 4v4 games in my life. so shuddap.

[Xeen]

Originally Posted by cruxis

I was Gold

And you're judging skill of servers? Really?

Anyways, bigger server populations generally means that there's more weak players of every given level, meaning it's easier to move up. By the same concept, the higher tiers are going to have a lot more depth as well - SEA and NA GM league are completely different in quality.

[BrTarolg]

Everything up to 3k masters is much tougher in SEA imho

[psJIN]

Im quite pleased to find this thread

Have been playing SEA for a little while now, though Im originally from EU.

I've got a plat EU and NA account, but placed silver and quickly got demoted to bronze on SEA.

Amazing skill diffrence sub diamond

I really had to work hard on getting back up into silver haha.. amazing But good training for me to fight all-inns, early cheese and major latency playing.

[nirvAnA]

Originally Posted by Xeen

bigger server populations generally means that there's more weak players of every given level, meaning it's easier to move up. By the same concept, the higher tiers are going to have a lot more depth as well - SEA and NA GM league are completely different in quality.

This is so true.

[ToRSpartaz]

Originally Posted by psJIN

Im quite pleased to find this thread

Have been playing SEA for a little while now, though Im originally from EU.

.

how do you get a EU acc? Do you have to buy one from Europe being the only way?

[cruxis]

Search for Starcraft Localisation. I'm pretty sure it allows you to play on any server.

[AlphaWhale]

South East Asia. More Asians = higher skill level.

[Jumbled]

Originally Posted by cruxis

Search for Starcraft Localisation. I'm pretty sure it allows you to play on any server.

I believe that only deals with setting up your client to access any server. You would still need a valid account on that server in order to play there.

[Meatex]

I do believe is re-localisation if I remember correctly though I likely do not.
However Jumbled is right in that will only change languages and server access - if you do not own an account linked to a purchased EU copy there is little point.

[cruxis]

Oh I didn't know that part. Just saw Cella doing it from time to time.

[toasti0]

Just visit the below link and you will get your answer why. You can even see it in the percentages comparison of sea to na server. E.g Bronze league makes up 46.2% of the server on sea(yes almost half of the server is bronze). where as only 37.8% of na players are in bronze league(about one third). Therefore the other 11% are for some reason pushed up into the other leagues probably to increase usa epeen. Another e.g Diamond sea 10% of the server diamond na 14.2% of the server.

Overall there is a higher percentage of players who are placed at a higher rank on the NA server and therefore you have a higher chance of meeting an sea bronzer in na silver or gold leagues who wouldn't usually be there on the sea server.

http://sc2ranks.com/stats/league/all/1/all

[Xeen]

Hasn't it already been confirmed that the main leagues (bronze silver gold plat diamond) have roughly 20% distribution, and sc2ranks is inaccurate due to inactive players and incomplete results?

[sandyph]

Im Gold SEA with Random and Silver NA with Zerg

[ZoomDog]

Originally Posted by Xeen

Hasn't it already been confirmed that the main leagues (bronze silver gold plat diamond) have roughly 20% distribution, and sc2ranks is inaccurate due to inactive players and incomplete results?

Yes it has.

[pikk0n]

One thing I do know about the NA scene and it's that their players are such BMs. LOL! I spend most of my time there observing games just to watch them BM. If you're lucky, you'll get a 1v1 obs game with 9 IdrAs in it.

On a side note, I fluked my way into diamond in NA as toss. Gold random here in SEA but they have some really good players in NA up in the higher rungs. As someone here said. It's just the fact that there are more people in the NA server that you get more noobs. Also, they have very different playstyles compared to us. They would focus a lot on their macro (you'd see 1 rax/gate expands and early hatches) even in bronze. These are legitimate playing styles which would ultimately help them once they have improved their game mechanics. Cheesy builds are fun for easy wins but in a BO3 series, you're not going to be able to beat the same player. There is a masters player in NA who 7 pooled his way up the ladder but he's not someone you're really going to look up to. Their established players would start working on some cheesy builds, hence you'd find that diamond and above are harder and you'd get the 5-7 min pressure. .

Just keep this in mind though. In a macro game, you're not going to beat them. Imagine playing IdrA. They are a bunch of brats in NA.

[TAavanar]

Originally Posted by pikk0n

One thing I do know about the NA scene and it's that their players are such BMs. LOL! I spend most of my time there observing games just to watch them BM. If you're lucky, you'll get a 1v1 obs game with 9 IdrAs in it.

On a side note, I fluked my way into diamond in NA as toss. Gold random here in SEA but they have some really good players in NA up in the higher rungs. As someone here said. It's just the fact that there are more people in the NA server that you get more noobs. Also, they have very different playstyles compared to us. They would focus a lot on their macro (you'd see 1 rax/gate expands and early hatches) even in bronze. These are legitimate playing styles which would ultimately help them once they have improved their game mechanics. Cheesy builds are fun for easy wins but in a BO3 series, you're not going to be able to beat the same player. There is a masters player in NA who 7 pooled his way up the ladder but he's not someone you're really going to look up to. Their established players would start working on some cheesy builds, hence you'd find that diamond and above are harder and you'd get the 5-7 min pressure. .

Just keep this in mind though. In a macro game, you're not going to beat them. Imagine playing IdrA. They are a bunch of brats in NA.

are you saying that a sea diamond cant beat a diamond NA player in a macro game....cuz ur dead wrong

[pikk0n]

That comment is directed more towards the BSG level who have gone to NA and experienced a sudden jump in their league placement. People around my level. When you're up in diamond, your gameplay is refined enough that you're about equal to one another though there are quite a lot of rather bad diamond players there.

I'm just adding this to caution the players here from making the mistake of thinking that they have eradicated most of the flaws of their games by making it to diamond or platinum in NA. I still genuinely see myself as a gold or lower player. Your lower rank always matters more than your higher rank. That's where your improvements are going to come from.

[cure]

Well, like Max said, NA server has a much larger population, hence it's either to climb the ladder. But if you hit top200 on NA i reckon the skill level would be higher then SEA.

[aztecx]

I made masters on NA in 2v2r in 1 night of play and it was FAR easier than making masters on SEA. Medium-High diamond was basically masters over there.

[pikk0n]

aztecx, That's because until recently, they've always thought that in 2v2s, you need to expand first. LOL! They've only just recently discovered that 2v2s involve early attacks before expanding. They're much worse 4 months ago when I first entered NA.

[TAEdgE]

Grand master on NA - it's much harder in a sense that you have such a thick field of quality players who you need to adapt to every game, whereas on SEA you can get stuck versing the same person up to 10 times, and it just becomes more mind games and relying on cutting corners.

SEA has definitely measured up to NA below the plateau of top players, but you can't look past the quantity of NA.

[Makra]

Well, NA team game players are certainly much dumber and more prone to BM/rage than their SEA counterparts. Had a big run of 2v2 this arvo on NA, not a single team said gg when we won, and there were a few interesting comments. Apparently a joint marauder hellion push at 8 minutes is an all-in (vs double zerg..), and if you scout cheese/proxys, putting up a couple of bunkers means you're a gay turtler. Oh, and if you beat someone twice in a row, they ****ing hate your guts. O.o

[BordZ]

Pikkon i disagree 100% with what you have said about macro, I have not found anyone on my level in NA that can macro like I can, on sea I see it all the time (in fact it happned in the game I just played, nydus ftw though).

And yeah somethings up, I'm gold here and Platinum in NA (was gold last season) and well I'm bad suffice to say

[Jumbled]

Originally Posted by BordZ

Pikkon i disagree 100% with what you have said about macro, I have not found anyone on my level in NA that can macro like I can, on sea I see it all the time (in fact it happned in the game I just played, nydus ftw though).

And yeah somethings up, I'm gold here and Platinum in NA (was gold last season) and well I'm bad suffice to say

There's definitely a noticeable difference. I'm gold on SEA and decided to give NA a go with the new season. Placed in plat and was quickly promoted to diamond. It does feel unfairly easy by comparison.

[aztecx]

Originally Posted by pikk0n

aztecx, That's because until recently, they've always thought that in 2v2s, you need to expand first. LOL! They've only just recently discovered that 2v2s involve early attacks before expanding. They're much worse 4 months ago when I first entered NA.

They actually play FAR more aggressively over on NA than they do here. That's not the point though because my assessment of their skill isn't based on the strategies they may use. It is based on their execution of whichever strategy they have decided upon.

Overall I believe there are a lot more weaker players in NA masters 2v2r than there are on the SEA server.

[ke_ivan]

What about the korean server level? Since i'm already at the bottom of the table (haven't played 4ever), i wonder if going to the korean ladder will help resurrect my play.

[TAEdgE]

Korean ladder absolutely shits on NA and SEA at even the decent masters or high diamond level. It cannot be compared. Only the top top of NA or Europe can compare to korea, but korea has so many unknown players with amazing skill that you never have an easy game really.

[TargA]

Originally Posted by pikk0n

One thing I do know about the NA scene and it's that their players are such BMs. LOL! I spend most of my time there observing games just to watch them BM. If you're lucky, you'll get a 1v1 obs game with 9 IdrAs in it.

On a side note, I fluked my way into diamond in NA as toss. Gold random here in SEA but they have some really good players in NA up in the higher rungs. As someone here said. It's just the fact that there are more people in the NA server that you get more noobs. Also, they have very different playstyles compared to us. They would focus a lot on their macro (you'd see 1 rax/gate expands and early hatches) even in bronze. These are legitimate playing styles which would ultimately help them once they have improved their game mechanics. Cheesy builds are fun for easy wins but in a BO3 series, you're not going to be able to beat the same player. There is a masters player in NA who 7 pooled his way up the ladder but he's not someone you're really going to look up to. Their established players would start working on some cheesy builds, hence you'd find that diamond and above are harder and you'd get the 5-7 min pressure. .

Just keep this in mind though. In a macro game, you're not going to beat them. Imagine playing IdrA. They are a bunch of brats in NA.

Im sorry to say this, but most of the better/top American players are actually very mannered and fun guys to play against.

I've had top mmr on EU NA and SEA and I rarely play bad mannered players.

edit: However I think that a lot of the good players are extremly arrogant eg. tyler saying indirectly that Europeans are trash before dreamhack/assembly, painuser also had a few good qoutes on state of the game were he said euros are bad compared to him etc !

[TargA]

Originally Posted by EdgE

Korean ladder absolutely shits on NA and SEA at even the decent masters or high diamond level. It cannot be compared. Only the top top of NA or Europe can compare to korea, but korea has so many unknown players with amazing skill that you never have an easy game really.

True, but imo EU scene will catch up with Korea soon, such a sick amount of ex wc3/bw pros in Europe. I also predict the American sc2 scene to end up like they did in wc3, with 2-3 decent players

[cruxis]

I'm loving NA simply because 7/10 games on SEA is zvz, and it's only like 2/10 on NA. Ever since 1.3 there's been a fuckload of Zergs on SEA. Pisses me off.