Two VERY different situations in those 2 replays, you'll understand when you give them a look .
I'm starting to feel it's either my opponents are doing it wrong (paired with mistakes), or this is actually a good build to do.
Two VERY different situations in those 2 replays, you'll understand when you give them a look .
I'm starting to feel it's either my opponents are doing it wrong (paired with mistakes), or this is actually a good build to do.
Game 1 - Backwater Gulch
Your opponent 6-pooled you. You defended it, and won. His micro wasn't great, but your defense was good. Pretty standard, nothing much to see here.
Game 2 - Shakuras Plateau
Your opponent went 7 Pool Proxy Hatch Spine Crawler Rush into 1 Base Roach/Hydra with +1 Armour.
WHAT.
While 6 pool is a viable build on a lot of maps, whatever the hell this dude calls his build is - in my Platinum level opinion - not viable, at all, ever, on any map, unless his opponent is a blind Somalian child with polio. And no arms.
/2c
___________________________________ Apth.767 SEA | NA | KR
Game 2 - Shakuras Plateau
Your opponent went 7 Pool Proxy Hatch Spine Crawler Rush into 1 Base Roach/Hydra with +1 Armour.
WHAT.
While 6 pool is a viable build on a lot of maps, whatever the hell this dude calls his build is - in my Platinum level opinion - not viable, at all, ever, on any map, unless his opponent is a blind Somalian child with polio. And no arms.
/2c
Haha yeah I totally get what you mean. Apparently he's diamond level (weird I know). I just wanted to demonstrate the viability of not walling off to defend against 6 pool that's all and I can't dig up any older replays because there's a lot lol so yeah... Only these recent ones are available heh.
Decided to post my replays here after some encouragement from Nemo I think.
A little about my Sc2 experience so far. I was a silver player when I first started, and climbed my way up to become a 3.2k rated diamond player in season 1. Then got really demoralized near the end for some reason, and didn't really play in season 2 (mostly due to not being able to see my win/loss). So anyway, trying to find the passion to ladder again, but finding it really difficult.
Two VERY different situations in those 2 replays, you'll understand when you give them a look .
I'm starting to feel it's either my opponents are doing it wrong (paired with mistakes), or this is actually a good build to do.
That's interesting defense. I can see now how it could work. I suppose a good Simcity around your nexus if you detect early pool.
The second build was a cheese but fun and pretty efficient I reckon. Has he anticipated a little bit your Dark Shrine (or scouted it), you were doomed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyanide
Decided to post my replays here after some encouragement from Nemo I think.
A little about my Sc2 experience so far. I was a silver player when I first started, and climbed my way up to become a 3.2k rated diamond player in season 1. Then got really demoralized near the end for some reason, and didn't really play in season 2 (mostly due to not being able to see my win/loss). So anyway, trying to find the passion to ladder again, but finding it really difficult.
anyway, those are my 3 replays. would appreciate it if any good protoss player is willing to coach me =P cheers!
SLAG PIT
Close Position against Zerg, 13 pool against Photon Expand :
I'm really not a expert of the Photon expand so I will let a Protoss player say if you have done it well. Anyway you're very far ahead when he breaks free and after you defended his first muta harass. All was going perfectly well toward an easy victory when at the 14min 20s you made 3 big mistakes following the Muta Harass in your main :
1 - You didn't rebuild 1 or 2 Cannons there
2 - You forgot 3 Stalkers behind you had just warped in. The 3+1 stalkers + your cannon left plus 4 that you would have been able to warp again a few seconds after would have been enough to defend efficiently against them
3 - You let your army impaled itself on the spine crawler forest. They were uselessly in front of the Natural you had just destroyed cunningly passing by behind. Why attack that wall that was defending nothing left ? You left an immortal behind who could help a lot deal with those Spines.
16m25s : Same situation at your main. No Pylon no Canon back, free murder for the mutas.
17m : You've won the game but why shoot the Evolution chamber instead of the hatch (or the pool) ? That's really the last building you want to destroy at that moment
gg
TAL'DARIM vs Protoss
3 gates against 3 gates robo.
At the beginning you loose 1 Stalker because you were not paying enough attention to the XelNaga nearby.
The first engagement is really bad for you, bad micro of your immortal who takes a few hits while marching to his rally point. He had more workers than you. I thought you were going to loose right away, but his lack of proxy pylon nearby saved you. Horrendous micro then : You had trapped 3 stalkers and you let 2 of them flee by letting your immortal and 2 or 3 zealots basically walk by and do nothing to the stalkers. You would have been in a good position. Still 5 workers behind though.
Opponent takes his expand and his 4rth gate and gather a decent army to siege you. You get carelessly out of your base, get ambushed and loose. You were in hard situation anyway.
I searched a bit to see viable openings in PvP (That's not a MU I had great interest for), and can't really comment on the build choice. I think though that you didn't make enough drones.
But what cost you the game is IMO execution. You were a bit careless with our units and Protoss demand great unit management. I feel you're still rusty from season 1 and you have to play a lot again to be as sharp as you were before.
TAL'DARIM vs Zerg
16m43s : You have your Nexus in your main full of energy, and energy too on the other Nexus. You had your 3rd to saturate quickly, you should have made more drones chronoboosted. You don't need all your army do defend against Mutas, spread it and throw some cannons to slow him from doing damage to the drone while the stalker arrive.
17:34, You push but the Roach army is coming the other side. You must not let the main Zerg army come in your back. Spread better your obs, pylons, drones to scout the blind side of the map and especially the Xelnagas. If you had not warped all those DT to counter the roaches (efficiently), you could have warped stalker to deal with the mutas.
I think you should have continued the game since you still had 2 Archons 2 immortals one sentry, one DT and he had not many thing left. All his 16 drones were under your nose. That was tense but not completely lost.
You played well in this game (use your boosts though), I think that whenever you play zerg you should get some more AOE, whether it is Storm or Colossi depending on the composition in front of you. This time Storm would have dealt very efficiently with the heavy Mutas he had.
Keep up the good work. All your skills will come back in no time !
I've started to ease myself back into playing sc2 (i do this on the NA servers). Just played a game and won (which was surprising as i was sure i'd loose due to my shitty nerves).
I made some shitty rally mistakes that i don't usually do, and i failed at making a half supply depot.
Any and all feedback will be greatly appreciated and please don't hesitate to be as critical as you like (even if your advice is for me to just uninstall the game )
I've started to ease myself back into playing sc2 (i do this on the NA servers). Just played a game and won (which was surprising as i was sure i'd loose due to my shitty nerves).
I made some shitty rally mistakes that i don't usually do, and i failed at making a half supply depot.
Any and all feedback will be greatly appreciated and please don't hesitate to be as critical as you like
Analyse of the replay
Against Toss, you should scout during the construction of your first barrack. Take a SCV that have unloaded its minerals, click a corner of your base, shift click all other corners of your base (that's scouting your base to check for any canon rush or in base gate), then shift click all the potential bases of the enemy, always beginning by close position)
You put only 2 VCS on the first gas. Put 3.
Don't build a depot outside his base, that's a complete waste of resources. On close position (and I assume ) you are going to 2 rax him all the time, you will make a bunker when you are there with your units, don't waste resources until then.
Make this change to the build : Before launching your expand make a engineering bay. And just after launching your expand make 4 turrets (One on each mineral line (natural and main), one entrance of each base).
When you execute the opening perfectly, you will post again a v for the next stage.
If you want help in v and v, post them.
You have to improve before getting to silver IMO (maybe you're there already ), so don't loose confidence, keep improving until you're fluent with this basic things.
Some humour
Quote:
Originally Posted by dannnyds
(even if your advice is for me to just uninstall the game )
lol
Don't tempt the trolls that could lurk the forum.
Edit : The reaper, Yeah ! That was worth the time
Same Edit : PS : Those BBcodes are cool ^^ (ther is no smiley for this one )
Last edited by Nemo; Sat, 23rd-Jul-2011 at 7:52 AM.
Thanks for the feedback , I'm silver on SEA but i have not played in a fair while and have lost a good part of my skill. Thanks for the rax/scout tip, did not know about this one.
I can't believe i stuffed up the gas :s
The depot was supposed to be 1/4 built so as to deny his expo a little (how do i stop my scv building? i tried esc and stop but noting worked).
Also did not know i needed to make a bunker there when i use the 2rax, thanks .
Lastly the only reason i did not kite him was because i was in a choke and he could not get further in to surround me.
update: Played another 1v1 against a protoss and lost pretty badly. I think i was trying to do some sort of 2rax/early mass marine pressure but after that was denied i was kinda floundering while he teched up hard. Started throwing factories and starports without knowing what i was going to use them for. Basically brain died on me.
Thanks for the feedback , I'm silver on SEA but i have not played in a fair while and have lost a good part of my skill. Thanks for the rax/scout tip, did not know about this one.
You're welcome. Sorry I thought you were in . Your opponent in fact seemed really bad.
Quote:
The depot was supposed to be 1/4 built so as to deny his expo a little (how do i stop my scv building? i tried esc and stop but noting worked).
Even worse to stop construction. You're spending the whole 100 minerals as soon as you command your SCV to construct the building.
Quote:
Also did not know i needed to make a bunker there when i use the 2rax, thanks .
Yes, because as soon as you will be matched agaisnt good , they will forcefield their ramp when you try to climb it and you're in great danger of loosing half your army if it is trapped alone in the Toss base while the rest wait at the lower ground. It is safer to contain the Toss with 2 bunkers and expand to be ahead. Don't over commit to your contain.
If he try to go out too early destroy his army when he's weak clumped in his ramp.
Scout perfectly for any Warp prism that could get out of his base or any hidden expand or proxy pylon he could have elsewhere
If he stays too long in his base, just drop the contain, back at your base and use your advantage to finish him in the right timing push
Quote:
Lastly the only reason i did not kite him was because i was in a choke and he could not get further in to surround me.
3 zealots will never suround you anyway. Surrounds are for glings mainly, always kite zealots, even if there is only one.
update: Played another 1v1 against a protoss and lost pretty badly. I think i was trying to do some sort of 2rax/early mass marine pressure but after that was denied i was kinda floundering while he teched up hard. Started throwing factories and starports without knowing what i was going to use them for. Basically brain died on me.
Scout earlier and begin by your base. If you get cheesed (canon and in base gateways), you will be really sorry. Your marine will be too late for that.
Never move your marine, especially chasing a probe ><. That way they will not pass just beside it without shouting it. Use only attack moves.
NEVER stop SCV production until you have 60 (or problems to expand and all your bases are saturated).
At 6" you have 18 VCS he has 24 drones (and you have 69 energy on you CC, thats a mule sleeping instead of working).
You make a contain and expand, that's very good, but only if that allows you to get ahead in eco that's not the case because you're not making enough SCV
PF at your nat. Why not if you feel insecure but that's not going in your general plan of having eco advantage and aggressive strategy. PF are often better for isolated expands.
Don't forget to makes units with your buildings (put them in a shortcut as soon as you are beginning construction). All your buildings must produce at all time. For exemple, you made a reactor with your factory for your starport but once all is in place you forget to make units with it (medivacs and a few vikings to scout and be safe against Air, Warp Prism, Colossi).
Excellent scouting with Xelnagas but a bit late. Excellent scouting of his expo. Don't devide your army. If your containing him put all your army together in front of his choke behind your bunker.
Beware of supply blocks. You were more than 15 supply of army behind at 15" with one more base !
You made 0 turets, that's bad cause DT would have been the end of you soon. Especially makes one at the contain place if you stay there for long, one in each base at least, covering your mineral line, enter of your base. You will also deny scouting like that (by obs).
Droping his main when he only is on 1 base is useless. His army is here and you will get trounced. Drop his expo you had scouted instead. It was undefended.
You should have taken a 3rd earlier.
Conclusion
You have a excellent strategy but you lost because you did not enough units and SCV.
You played waaaaay better than last time though. If you continue the good work you will continue to improve.
3. This is a big issue i have to work on as i tend to forget about scv's after a while.
4. Did not see that, nice catch.
5/6. The PF was because i started to panic (whenever i panic i mare stuuuuupid mistakes).
7. I did not imagine he would wall up, which threw me off. The starports were a decision made when i
panicked and saw his colossus. But again they should be used T_T (god only knows why i made a banshee).
8. Gotcha, i should have sent like 2 marines from my main to deal with that
9. Gotcha.
10. I need to do this more, you are absolutely right.
11. I dont know why i thought that was a good idea at the time :s.
I was streaming this to a friend while i played (on Skype, and every now and then he'd say to look at my supply or maybe expand etc). I haven't played TvT in ages so i was advised to go for marine and tanks (i added in some marauders so i could get some combat, stim etc with the added non marine units). I feel i did a little better responding to pressure and expanding.
edit: I'm bronze on NA as i lost every placement game on purpose to get placed there (i believed i was bronze level). On SEA I'm silver as i won a few placement games.
7. I did not imagine he would wall up, which threw me off. The starports were a decision made when i
panicked and saw his colossus.
Starport is good, Hellions and Viking are compulsory.
Quote:
But again they should be used T_T (god only knows why i made a banshee).
Banshee (and Ravens) too are very good. If he has chosen to stay in his base for ever, they area good way for you to attack slowly his base (with some tanks too).
Quote:
edit: I'm bronze on NA as i lost every placement game on purpose to get placed there (i believed i was bronze level).
Bad idea cause the only thing that determine your opponents will be your MMR, not league, so just play your games normally and don't even bother your league, it will have no influence and your opponent selection.
I was streaming this to a friend while i played (on Skype, and every now and then he'd say to look at my supply or maybe expand etc). I haven't played TvT in ages so i was advised to go for marine and tanks (i added in some marauders so i could get some combat, stim etc with the added non marine units). I feel i did a little better responding to pressure and expanding.
Replay Analysis
Against begin to take the habit to Simcity you Mineral line to prevent Enemy Hellions to roll behind it
Put your army in 1 shortcut not 0, it's easier to access.
Put a bunch of SCV of your mineral line (not gas) in a group so you can issue construction order with more efficiency.
Why cancel this Starport, you need it to play Marine Tank to give vision to your tanks with Vickings (or banshees) and medivac to heal your bio.
After the first push of your opponent, while you counter, excellent timing for your expand because you are safe for a moment.
vs Tanks vs Tanks is contain. Siege out of his range (or vision), set up your battle line and work slowly from there. At 10" mark you just suicide all your army under enemy Tank fire. You were far ahead, and containing him, you needn't such reckless attack.
12:37 : I have never seen such stupid Drop suicide by your opponent. >< The other one was sucessful tough
16:32 : 2400 minerals in bank. Spend your money !
Make some turrets on the undefended edges of your base to prevent drops (and clocked banshees)
After a drop has killed your SCV make some to replace them and immediately put 6 on your gas again.
Take your 3rd quicker, before 15"
When gathering your army in front of his base before the final attack, siege your tanks and that's the time where you must be the most attentive to enemy drops because your army is far from your bases.
Overall, nice win, you're doing better than last time.
This game is a bit different as its a 2v2 where i play with a friend. We win but i dont really do anything. I went into this game with the intention of improving my macro and getting an expansion etc, which i feel i did.
I saw it. I will not comment very precisely as the other time mainly because Team play is essentially making a lot of units without real strategy (until Diamond I would say). It is fun a good way to train without having to concentrate.
But :
If you make a 2nd gas, put 3 guys on it.
Make units at all time from your buildings unless you're waiting for 400 minerals for expand
Steam is priority before or ASAP after the shield
Make a turret before 7" in front of your base. DT and you're dead.
After seing the end, what a stupid game ... The 2 didn't fired a single shot ><.
You see. DT rushes are present 80% of the team games including , so put turrets at key points.
Now, go practice with all those advices and when you feel you master all this well and you feel you need to pass another level (or vs ), come and ask, we will help you.
You also must learn to analyse your own replay to see if you're doing all things you know you have to do well.
Lost this game (TvT) and just felt bad playing it and felt like i was just floundering with no real idea of what i was doing. I feel like i go 1 step forwards and then 2 steps back. A big mistake i made was not using missile turrets at my mineral line (among others).
Hi guys it's me again. Hope everyone's got a new promotion in S3 or at least having a good time .
Here's my placement match today (which I lost). I dunno why but somehow I just couldn't macro up that many units? And well my 3rd got denied several times hence a lot of lost minerals there.
Maybe my army composition was bad? Or I engaged in bad spots. I'm not entirely sure. I was just not entirely happy throughout the whole match and I dunno why lol. Help appreciated!
vs is the MU I know the least but here what I saw from your replay.
Replay Analysis
Why sacrifice uselessly 3 zealots @ 10:40 min mark ?
11:49 : You're both too timid. You're both entirely in your bases, both Xelnagas free of any unit as is the whole map. You must be far more aggressive in your Map control. If you don't make a Stargate (quite trendy in vs ), at least research Hallucination to send phoenixes around the map. I think you had a window to expand at 10:00 exactly when you destroyed the enemy third but couldn't take it because of lack of scouting.
13:08 : You pushed with 54 army supply against 87 army supply. That's the moment you lost the game because it ended in the destruction of your third when his was unharmed. You have a obs, you have to learn the game sense to see when a army is that bigger than yours (hard to do I know, I'm not a master of this either, but that still basically what lost you this game).
I think you have to have AOE against Zerg. Colossi, Storm or Archons. You can make for example Archons zealots (as Light do, watch his stream to see it mastered) and add storm after that.
You hadn't AOE, you were 30 supply behind, you just caught up in Drone count, you expanded in the same time as he did, you should just have defended your 3rd with all your sentries at that moment. Sentries are great as defenders.
During his push you had a very small window to destroy his 3rd with the Pylon he left you. It was hard because you were still defending but it would have given you a chance.
24:00 : You try desperately to catch up economically. B3 and B4 quite at the same time, only 80 army supply (One Colossus only) against 120 pop army. Don't push !
Again just before the end with 50 food behind and Death tech (broodlord and infestor). Your opponent just did the mistake not to search neural parasite to control your big units.
Conclusion
In conclusion, I think the main reason you lost are:
Bad timing for the first push. You did no harass at the beginning of the game so you're behind but not too much because you expanded quickly and denied his third. You just had to defend your third, to catch up and then kill him.
No AEO soon enough.
Your opponent was far too timid, he didn't really make any push of his own (except to counter) and surrendered map control without serious reason. You didn't punished him by good scouting and greedy expand.
As of Late i have been having a lot trouble Just over all playing the game I'm not really sure where I am going wrong, Just wondering if you guys could go over a replay and maybe give me me some tips to improve =)
this is of a recent game verse a Random who was Zerg I felt as if I was going well then sort of just lost not really sure why xD however im sure there is something super obvious.
As of Late i have been having a lot trouble Just over all playing the game I'm not really sure where I am going wrong, Just wondering if you guys could go over a replay and maybe give me me some tips to improve =)
this is of a recent game verse a Random who was Zerg I felt as if I was going well then sort of just lost not really sure why xD however im sure there is something super obvious.
You're build order (photon expand) seems very clean to me. I don't see big macro mistakes (supply block for 10 sec at 1rst pylon) apart from the fact that you only harvest from 3 extractors for a very long time. That seems odd cause you cut Drones at saturation and then there were no reason not to harvest from the last gas extractor.
13:53 : You have 1740/400 gas in bank, that's not the good time to let your macro slip because zerg was on 2 bases and All-in was possible or, like he did, over expanding to over macro you.
Your obs have been sniped, you're very blind when you push, without any AOE. You don't know army composition of your opponent at that moment and you have immortals that are good against Roach only. Why not make hallucination to scout ?
You push with 83 army food against 100 and after battle you are 53 food against 72. That's still a victory cause you destroyed more than 2K more resources.
16:30 : You have kept the center of the map, the Xelnaga, you have 3K minerals in bank, and opponent is double expanding (you don't know that because of lack of scouting). Anyway you have to spend your money. Double expand + 2 to 4 more gateways would have been a good idea IMO.
18:00 : Instead of expanding you have pushed without really replenishing your army. You're now 30 army food behind, 2 expand behind and your opponent have catch a bit on the resources destroyed and you now have 4K minerals in bank. I think that that was your key mistake. Not enough scouting of his 2ble expand, and over extending with this push.
20:00 : 9 cannons at your 3rd that was too much and bad placed, the majority didn't protect your mineral line. You have 117 overall food. Put your minerals in units. Throw down gateways and zealots/Stalkers if your need your gas for something else.
25:00 : Your Deathball is now frighting, thanks to Archons and good army composition, he attacks you and get trounced. But his macro has been quite good and his bases are working well now.
28:00 he tries another attack and catch you off guard. He manages to destroy your army and you loose.
Conclusion
You forget to harvest from one gas at the beginning;
You make your third too late (when you should have taken your 4rth);
You didn't scout enough the potential expands of the map. He was able to hide his 4rth for too long;
You didn't spend enough your money in the middle of the game. You should have put down gateways.
I hope this will be a bit helpful.
That will be probably my last Replay Analisis for 3 weeks as I'm going in vacation without good Internet connexion, so Apth, I might not be able to help you in this task during this period.
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