SC2SEA.com - Starcraft 2 SEA eSports Community Site

TABiggun · Thu, 7th-Jun-2012, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyanide

I think the coaching issues are irrelevant to this post atm, as is this post.

Perhaps we can get back to the core issue, and wait for a response from Chobo.

Who knows how much money chobo has made through false advertising of his 'high grandmaster' coaching.

Quick Comments

	FaDeHellfyre:	is this really relevant?
	AsGNabi:	Not relevant and not even close to the truth.

AsGNabi · Thu, 7th-Jun-2012, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iM Mafia

he got mad ppl found out the truth?
whats he mad @

There's no need to be like that. Without making it out like he needs sympathy, try defending yourself against an entire community who is criticising and analysing every single movement of your game. When no one is giving you any room to budge, of course you’re going to get frustrated.

Quick Comments

TAminimat:

theres a simple fix for that...

**iM tgun** · Thu, 7th-Jun-2012, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AsGNabi

There's no need to be like that. Without making it out like he needs sympathy, try defending yourself against an entire community who is criticising and analysing every single movement of your game. When no one is giving you any room to budge, of course you’re going to get frustrated.

Seriously?

I defended him when "he" was accused of cheating.

Can't defend this.

Quick Comments

x5.Revenant:

NvJazBas · Thu, 7th-Jun-2012, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AsGNabi

There's no need to be like that. Without making it out like he needs sympathy, try defending yourself against an entire community who is criticising and analysing every single movement of your game. When no one is giving you any room to budge, of course you’re going to get frustrated.

of course you're going to get frustrated when you've done so well to fool the whole community for about a year but gets busted now

Quick Comments

	iM tgun:	PERFECT
	syfPhoenix:
	Shieldz:
	TAriiChard:
	x5.Revenant:	Perfect Human-ed

AsGNabi · Thu, 7th-Jun-2012, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tgun

Seriously?

I defended him when "he" was accused of cheating.

Can't defend this.

Not saying you specifically, just seems to be way too much bias.

Anyway, I really think you should all just wait for his response. It's coming.

Edit: Thanks for the welcome.

Quick Comments

	iMSystem:	But he is offline ._.
	TheGentleman:	Welcome to the forum, I expect no one has given you a genuine welcome yet. Awaiting his reply ^^
	xGKingdelete:	^such a gentleman. also have some more rep, negative points looks bad

**PiG** · Thu, 7th-Jun-2012, 11:01 PM

Shame on the few people in this thread and the last who raged/bullied/abused the people like Uhf and others who are trying to be 100% thorough. For the last 2 days I have heard people of that opinion be abused when they were just trying to be thorough and 100% sure. Mean while we had some VERY half-assed evidence of "maphacking" which a some portion of people blindly believed in because two progamers told them it was so.

Because of the chobo drama I watched the catz vod and also saw so many nothing points get brought up that I got very mad. To call catz an authority on sc2 or treat him as such is an absolute joke as we saw multiple times in that vod: http://www.twitch.tv/rootcatz/b/320407912

At one point they all make a big deal of move to defend a doom drop and a scan catching it... when 2 minutes later they realise a scouting rax saw the drop coming... ugh

Am I sayin I'm better or understand more than catz or mafia or rossi? Hells no I think I'm just as shit and in the dark as all 3 of them. That's right I said they're shit. Right now I would rate Rossi, Mafia and catz all 3 as more solid progamers then me. But I understand the fact that they still all suck. Broodwar took years and years to develop and understand and sc2 itself has come SO damn far since a year or 6 months ago that to place our current understanding as PLAYERS not analysts or coaches as an authority is just... absolute crap. (What I'm trying to say is we don't know enough about this game to be rash. We absolutely must be 100% careful with something like this).

Now that being said i was something like 75% sure that chobo was VERY suspect. Probably a production tab hack or streamcheating from the games I saw. However the comments saying "why isn't he banned!? how is anyone stupid enough to still defend him" really got to me. I know it was only a few people saying this but goddammit take a chill pill next time this happens and keep it in your pants. You hate hackers? Go hate on the HACKERS not the people trying to make sure they are 100% hacking.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TABiggun

Seo does many weird control group changes which must be due to his playing of brood war. There would be no reason to copy these control groups in starcraft 2.

There is no way you can just 'learn' such the specific setup that seo has and execute it exactly like him. There would be no point.
Also, seo has a very broodwar esque setup as I mentioned before, there would be no reason for chobo to have it the same as seo, the koreans just do it because they have played 1000s of games with that setup so there's no reason to change.

Also, for conclusive proof, you can see the 'tapping' of seo in the charts and its the exact same as 'chobo'. The way a player spams is like a fingerprint and there is no way you can learn to do it the same as anyone else.

This is the post I've been looking for. Biggun had some great info on the previous thread about only checking for spire in the games the zerg didnt go infestors but it was buried underneath the piles of bullshit.

Can anyone else confirm is the tapping and hotkey ordering etc. show up on this chart? Is it really like a fingerprint (similar not exactly). Because if so this is damning evidence. Just having different setups especially CC on 0 is odd. and very very suspect but not 100% damning unless this is the case.

Ok rant over.

P.S. want to clarify. Mafia had some great points in his vod about helion positioning and intercepting lings. Unfortunately it was buried underneath 80% emotional attempts to find suspicious behaviour in ordinary stuff ... IMO

Quick Comments

	FvRphoneheha:
	VB_Rhuubarb:	Agreed, people shouldn't lower their personal standards just because they think someone else has.
	Peleus:	Agreed, Chobo sorry for calling you a hacker
	Sedz:
	syfPhoenix:
	Kepler:	Absolutely agree. People blew off people like UHF just because Rossi made the initial post.
	Snx.FigJig:
	xGKingdelete:
	Uglymutt:	Thanks for trying to calm everyone down
	Pox:
	Cyanide:
	MrToast:	Was just the usual TA circlejerk routine.
	TAEdgE:	and Toast was bias with the anti-TA ;)
	HuT:
	nirvAnA:
	Dox:	i like ptatoes
	Zealo:

Peleus · Thu, 7th-Jun-2012, 11:06 PM

Pig, to give an idea of hotkey analysis it was similarly used successfully identify the Nv players (NvT, NvP etc) before they were announced. It's amazing how unique hotkey setups are.

Quick Comments

	TAEdgE:	This is where the Hardy Boys began. MiLes and Edge had a vision..
	inFeZa:	this is a great connection to think of
	Dox:	assholes

**PiG** · Thu, 7th-Jun-2012, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peleus

Pig, to give an idea of hotkey analysis it was similarly used successfully identify the Nv players (NvT, NvP etc) before they were announced. It's amazing how unique hotkey setups are.

Thankyou! With that in mind I would say there is probably no chance of a "oh he uses 4 different setups, or changed setups/tested them for a bit because they wouldn't have the same habits as seohyeon. Therefore this is highly good evidence and I must thank Rossi for his great detective work.

Eagerly awaiting chobos response and explanation.

Quick Comments

VB_Rhuubarb:

This is for screwing up my previous one!

iM MaFia · Thu, 7th-Jun-2012, 11:15 PM

(response to pig)

yes I do regret making sucha big accusation on someone.. and have learnt from this experience greatly
I think rossi is in the same boat we have both agreed to never bother with anything like this again - our jobs are just to play sc2 really...

i cant really say im sorry cause I was probably wrong and didn't have enough evidence with my maphacking claims because it wasn't even him playing... but im just glad its almost over and there was some use out of it after all... mayb karma? i dont know but im definitely not bothering to get involved again

Quick Comments

	iVnStinger:	It's ok, you want to keep SEA safe from hackers
	FvRphoneheha:	It's ok, you did the right thing bringing it up, it was just handled a bit fiercely by us afterwards
	Zepph:	Accusation that lead to another problem. Cheating is cheating ^^ they get caught one way or another
	inFeZa:	No way - you guys did awesome, and it was because he WON the tournament did you not forget? Very damaging stuff
	mOOnGLaDe:	uncle glade knows best, do nothing but play sc2! (and some d3 maybe)
	nirvAnA:	UNCLE GLADE
	Dox:	big pappa poonglade
	PiG:	your instincts were right you just let your emotions get to you... being the one who lost $$ not ur fault!
	Nemo:	Respect

**inFeZa** · Thu, 7th-Jun-2012, 11:19 PM

Well......

You Tube

Edit: to rep - im referring to the confirmation of him cheating. but yeah still awaiting his response.

Such a shame that he had to lie to the community,

you CAN improve at this game if you try, you don't... you CAN'T get someone to up your account for you to make you look good. it doesn't work this way. Don't be ashamed of how you play, that can always be improved if you try.

Quick Comments

	MrToast:	Still waiting for Chobos reply to all this. So it all isn't over yet.
	FvRphoneheha:	Soon, hopefully. Soon....

**nirvAnA** · Thu, 7th-Jun-2012, 11:24 PM

More evidence

First up, more evidence to support Rossi's post about him smurfing. Remember the log with rossi about how i noticed an enormous difference in skill between the custom games i had with him, and when i played him on ladder?

+ [This log] +

It was 6 months ago but with the help of SC2 gears i actually managed to find those 3 replays of the custom games. I felt his standard was about masters league and was really shocked it was so different from the ladder games i played against him as the chobo i played on ladder was top GM level. His custom game timings were all terrible and strange. Anyway i never considerd the possibility this chobo guy was an imaginary person so I just shrugged it off and thought he was having a bad day and never thought much of it.

The custom games with the "real" chobo, from skype. Identical to what Rossi outlined in his posts the hotkeys are VERY different from the MC games / seohyun. They are also similar to his streamed game in the Rossi OP.

http://www.sc2sea.com/replays.php?do=viewreplay&id=1285
http://www.sc2sea.com/replays.php?do=viewreplay&id=1284
http://www.sc2sea.com/replays.php?do=viewreplay&id=1283

Ladder games - One ladder game with "SEOHYUN hotkeys" the other is i guess versus another zerg who was paid to level up his account.

http://www.sc2sea.com/replays.php?do=viewreplay&id=1288
(i get disced at the end, and say asdasd to test the lag but it was over anyway)
http://www.sc2sea.com/replays.php?do=viewreplay&id=1286
(some zerg was leveling up his account, obv a sea player not kr)

Other clues which got me thinking he was smurfing

Super quiet during ladder games, like he didn't know me.
His inability to produce replays after being suspected, even from the unsaved folder. Thought it was very fishy.
Poor performances at lan
Unwillingness to join "pro teams"
A anonymous source spilling the beans saying the real chobo is actually only diamond level

All this was what got me to investigate so I brought this possibility up to Rossi, Mafia and Revenant but after the test i was so sure he couldnt be smurfing. Somehow he tricked me again cause i ended up playing hyun? lol

The "TEST"

TLDR: First time he joined channel after being told on skype - 14 seconds. Second time he joined channel, about 5 seconds. How he tricked me in the test I did is beyond me, perhaps he was sharing his screen and having a voice/chat with hyun at the same time. But I didn't give him any preparation, just asked him if he was home then told him to get on sc2 right away. So this test results bug me still, and i really wanted rossi to do a final test to catch him 100% red handed before he made the post.

+ [The Test] +

The Test Game the game with rossi obbing. I was basically playing "seohyun" and got destroyed hard
http://www.sc2sea.com/replays.php?do=viewreplay&id=1287

Also note in the game, i asked him who he lost to at the last lan. Took him 20 seconds to reply and he said "hmmm yang" at the end. Me and rossi at that time both didn't think much about it and we dropped the smurfing issue until we were provided the streaming evidence of the different hotkeys again by the same anonymous source.

Conclusion

seohyun does not hack
seohyun played for chobo in his ladder games and MC games
the real "yamama" which targa had suspected, could be the "hacker" he played in the early seasons
How chobo managed to fool his clan (wouldn't they msg him when hyun was playing?) and the whole SEA for at least the last 6 months is astonishing, but ultimately his own greed for epeen was his undoing, as he got hyun to smurf in one of the biggest SEA tournaemnts

FINAL UPDATE

There is now 100% conclusive evidence that seohyun played for Chobo in his ladder and MC games. The evidence will be made public after chobo's statement, or should he choose not to reply.

Chobo will be punished severely, will not receive any prize money for his MC win and be stripped of all titles. Will discuss with the other admins as well how to proceed best from here. I imagine jaz will post the summarized findings on PlayXP and tgun will contact vVv and playadmin. The findings will also be posted on TL and Reddit where the two parties involved will be publicly shamed.

Quick Comments

	Maynarde:
	inFeZa:	FINALLY A DECISION.
	TAEdgE:
	iMSystem:
	syfSoundwave:	Justice!
	x5.Revenant:
	Cyanide:
	Baldie:
	mOOnGLaDe:	wow! nirvana with the hammer of justice at last!
	Nemo:	Justice has been served
	Strafe:	boom! If you would add that he's not allowed to play in any tournament from now on that would be great too
	ROCCAT_Savior:

**syfSoundwave** · Thu, 7th-Jun-2012, 11:27 PM

As a spectator and a fan, this is highly disappointing. I watched as CHoBo displayed his skill, 2-0ing tgun in some tournament (IIRC Master's Cup) and then taking out the best of the best Zergs on SEA. tgun, MaFia, TargA, even the SEA King mOOnGLaDe all fell to him in fairly dominating fashion.

iaguz, Rossi, YoonYJ, deth, they're all awesome, but I couldn't recall someone squashing SEA's finest Zerg's so thoroughly. He displayed really good play and it was awesome to imagine that SEA had added another great player to it's ranks. One step closer to giving the rest of the world a kick in the ass. CHoBo's TvZ was honestly awesome, and his other match-ups were great too. It was kind of exciting to see someone who could potentially dethrone mOOnGLaDe as the SEA King. He looked pretty unbeatable recently.

But no, it was all a joke. It's one thing to smurf and to beat other players, screwing them out of tournament winnings, but you crossed the line. You attacked the fans, playing on their emotions, getting them hyped and excited over a complete lie, perhaps inadvertently, but you did. The tournament organizers screwed, the players screwed, but worst of all, the fans were screwed.

**** you, CHoBo. **** you.

Quick Comments

	MooZfY:	wait till he respond first and hear what he has to say
	x5.Revenant:	I love your passion
	Zealo:	i was the same...
	Nemo:	Yes

**Maynarde** · Thu, 7th-Jun-2012, 11:28 PM

This is a dark occasion to discover a cheater in the community, but it's really heart warming to see everyone working together and the differences between certain factions not mattering when the legitimacy of our community is at stake

I think a lot of people will sleep easier tonight knowing justice has been done, if I could +rep this entire site I would lol.

+1 SC2SEA

Quick Comments

	Asrathiel:
	nirvAnA:

dippa · Thu, 7th-Jun-2012, 11:30 PM

this isn't a dark occasion.

it should be a monumental day for all of us - we've finally managed to root out one of the most disgraceful weeds in the community.

if only we could do the same with zanooku, but alas, one step at a time.

Quick Comments

	syfSoundwave:
	TABjornbrandr:	I'm sure KJH will find time to sort that out at the next lan Zanooku attends. If he ever does.. :'(
	nirvAnA:	zanooku is already weeded out lol!

**inFeZa** · Thu, 7th-Jun-2012, 11:35 PM

You Tube

Quick Comments

	FvRphoneheha:	Why am I uprepping youtube video posts... But yes it has :)
	iVnStinger:	First one was enough. But LOL
	EveVendetta:

**nGenLight** · Thu, 7th-Jun-2012, 11:37 PM

TA -Nirvana alliance, omfg what the hell is going on!?

Call me crazy... maybe?

Quick Comments

FvRphoneheha:

Ray is china man, I shall uprep

CHoBo(kice) · Thu, 7th-Jun-2012, 11:37 PM

Okay so what happened?
My girlfriend thought I was playing master cup while really I was playing on a spare account on NA. So while watching the stream, little did she know I was not actually playing on those particular games. I will rectify this with her as she was misled.

How did I get away with the smurfing test from Nirvana?
I got Seo to do this. Yes it was wrong, and I’m willing to admit to that. If I want to come clean, I need to leave no ambiguity.

Why I refused to post recent games?
I had different hotkey setup to seo and did not want to reveal this. Obviously, because did not want to show inconsistency of hotkeys

Hacked?
No. Definitely not. So all the analysis here and there was kind of well.. pointless. Sorry to have your time wasted.

Game Farming?
Yes. However I did not use any hack/bot program. I did this manually. The fact other people used bots just made it really easy for people not using the program to accumulate wins much faster.

Maintaining my account..
I had a few friends along my gaming which played on my account to help my bonus pool while my real life commitments were overwhelming.
However, they did not ladder me to achieve GM, I did this in the past myself.

So to conclude..
I am sorry to everyone who spent time trying to disprove a hacker, when really that wasn’t the issue at all. It was something completely different.
To all my clan who defended me including my girlfriend, I have unfortunately misled you all in the sense of winning masters cup as this was clearly done by seo. I just want to take a moment to apologize for this.

I am glad I can finally reveal the truth as this has been far to overwhelming to try and cover for the time which it has blown out to. All I can say is that I am sorry and took my time to ensure everything I thought was crucial has been covered and is true.

Quick Comments

	TAminimat:	cya mate!
	FaDeHellfyre:	at least you owned up to it finally
	nGenLight:	Give mafia his monay.
	FvRphoneheha:	:/ I'm happy that you've come forward and that this whole mess has ended. Hope you grow from this/wish you the best ahe
	nirvAnA:	thanks for coming clean. good bye kice
	inFeZa:	you lied to an 11/10 girl! D:
	Peleus:	A big **** you
	syfChadMann:	Could have saved everyone a few days of work - but good on you for coming clean.. finally.
	iMSystem:	At least it is out now, may you take your leave, peacefully.
	TACeeSerps:	Coming clean after being found out is not the same as coming forward.. I hope to never see your name around here again
	iM MaFia:	I feel sorry for your girlfriend
	Maynarde:	Thank you for admitting, see ya later
	mGGAequitas:	disgraceful behaviour
	Cyanide:	at least you decided to stop fooling everyone
	[TA]LoSt:	Exactly what CSerps has said..
	Neoneoz:	bye !
	syfPhoenix:	not cool man
	iVnStinger:	Wasted a lot of people's time. If you were decent you would've come clean the first time you got caught
	HuT:	out
	neKo:	Stay out
	Dox:	she ain't gonna be pleased dawg!
	MrToast:	Counter rep because I can
	x5.Revenant:	" I am with peace with myself that I did not cheat and that is enough' F*** THAT.
	MooZfY:	thanks for coming clean kice
	syfMiley:	inb4 seo was dead the whole time and your girlfriend is bruce willis-directed by m. night shyamalan smh
	TASlowHands:	So courageous of you to come clean when all has been discovered already. You are an absolute joke.
	RicocheT:	Should of done this way earlier.
	mOOnGLaDe:	wtf even lying to your gf?? you're a loser
	Snx.Mufasa:	get out
	Zealo:	why wouldn't he smurf on an account you don't care about? :S
	FaMe:	cant wait to see who you re-alias as.
	Strafe:	I could fathom the need to lie to the sc2sea community to make yourself look good, but to actually trick your gf LOL.
	TAriiChard:	GTFO!!!!
	Bash:	thank you for coming clean, took too long, but still, kudos it does take guts.
	breadfan:	:(
	Rage:	why the positive rep? Coming clean doesn't take guts after its been proven, you dolts.

**iM tgun** · Thu, 7th-Jun-2012, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AsGCHoBo

Okay so what happened?
My girlfriend thought I was playing master cup while really I was playing on a spare account on NA. So while watching the stream, little did she know I was not actually playing on those particular games. I will rectify this with her as she was misled.

How did I get away with the smurfing test from Nirvana?
I got Seo to do this. Yes it was wrong, and I’m willing to admit to that. If I want to come clean, I need to leave no ambiguity.

Why I refused to post recent games?
I had different hotkey setup to seo and did not want to reveal this. Obviously, because did not want to show inconsistency of hotkeys

Hacked?
No. Definitely not. So all the analysis here and there was kind of well.. pointless. Sorry to have your time wasted.

Game Farming?
Yes. However I did not use any hack/bot program. I did this manually. The fact other people used bots just made it really easy for people not using the program to accumulate wins much faster.

Maintaining my account..
I had a few friends along my gaming which played on my account to help my bonus pool while my real life commitments were overwhelming.
However, they did not ladder me to achieve GM, I did this in the past myself.

So to conclude..
I am sorry to everyone who spent time trying to disprove a hacker, when really that wasn’t the issue at all. It was something completely different.
To all my clan who defended me including my girlfriend, I have unfortunately misled you all in the sense of winning masters cup as this was clearly done by seo. I just want to take a moment to apologize for this.

I am glad I can finally reveal the truth as this has been far to overwhelming to try and cover for the time which it has blown out to. All I can say is that I am sorry and took my time to ensure everything I thought was crucial has been covered and is true.

I'd be apologizing for seohyeon too.

Let's hope his team is ok with people doing what is essentially cheating.

**Baldie** · Thu, 7th-Jun-2012, 11:41 PM

You Tube

Quick Comments

	zenabi:
	Pox:
	ToRSpartaz:

CHoBo(kice) · Thu, 7th-Jun-2012, 11:41 PM

tgun:

he is a good friend of mine who also coaches me, I have said sorry to him also.

Quick Comments

x5.Revenant:

No amount of sorries can fix his career that you have potentially ruined.