[inFeZa]

Originally Posted by |Erasmus|

They can get 500+ people to a pub in the middle of sydney for an sc2 event. That's half the viewer numbers of our most popular online tournaments, from one city.

Quick Comments

	Cyanide:	lol
	Sunset:	BAHAHAHAHAHAHA I spat out my water
	TAavanar:	LOL

[|Erasmus|]

Originally Posted by inFeZa

don't really know what point you're making... so far I've not seen any marketing for WCS and not through the channels I was talking about.

EDIT: oh, and chadmann... I'm going to have to disagree and say that I think donations are not the way to growth. I think if it's possible to find a way to reach financial sustainability at the current time, then there is room for growth. As long as the scene remains in the state where it's just bleeding money out and relying on donations to keep itself propped up, there will be a lack of sponsor money walking in the door.

Quick Comments

syfChadMann:

oh my lord.

[syfChadMann]

Originally Posted by |Erasmus|

don't really know what point you're making... so far I've not seen any marketing for WCS and not through the channels I was talking about.

EDIT: oh, and chadmann... I'm going to have to disagree and say that I think donations are not the way to growth. I think if it's possible to find a way to reach financial sustainability at the current time, then there is room for growth. As long as the scene remains in the state where it's just bleeding money out and relying on donations to keep itself propped up, there will be a lack of sponsor money walking in the door.

I...
eh...
Okay, if community funds and supports it - it will grow. Growth leads to exposure, exposure leads to marketing opportunities ... that means sponsorship. It's addressing the 'catch 22' situation currently in place where we have zero exposure.. and low competition.. boost competition, boost exposure, boost investment returns.

Marketing 101 big boy.
EDIT - actually I'm going to explain this a bit more.. just so I don't get silly responses..
If you want to grow something that has no ROI benefit.. it's hard to get external investment. So you have to prop it up and bleed funds into it to bolster it while it finds its feet. Fake self-sufficiency until the beast can support itself. make sense? okay.. good, now go support eSports how ever you can. ty

Anyway, I'm sure there are plenty of talented individuals in the community that can promote the Aus WCS effectively.. also, Blizzard is involved.. I'm sure they will do their part to bolster the event.

[|Erasmus|]

Originally Posted by cR.ChadMann

I...
eh...
Okay, if community funds and supports it - it will grow. Growth leads to exposure, exposure leads to marketing opportunities ... that means sponsorship. It's addressing the 'catch 22' situation currently in place where we have zero exposure.. and low competition.. boost competition, boost exposure, boost investment returns.

Marketing 101 big boy.

Anyway, I'm sure there are plenty of talented individuals in the community that can promote the Aus WCS effectively.. also, Blizzard is involved.. I'm sure they will do their part to bolster the event.

I've studied enough business and economics to know that if I"m looking for an investment opportunity, I'd be looking for something which has a way of making money, not something running more spectacular events propped up by donations.

So you don't need to be too condescending. But that is also my own opinion, and I know I'm not alone in it.

And of course they can, I didn't say they couldn't.

[syfChadMann]

Originally Posted by |Erasmus|

I've studied enough business and economics to know that if I"m looking for an investment opportunity, I'd be looking for something which has a way of making money, not something running more spectacular events propped up by donations.

So you don't need to be too condescending. But that is also my own opinion, and I know I'm not alone in it.

And of course they can, I didn't say they couldn't.

I have a degree in marketing dude..

ROI isn't all about dollars and cents. It's about exposure.. brand awareness, advertising, promotion... these activities see no direct ROI - but build brand awareness and product awareness - that leads to sales.

Quick Comments

	iMSystem:	+1 If only everyone else knew this...
	TAriiChard:	He didn't go to Mktg2020 =)
	inFeZa:	Any Exposure is Good Exposure.

[FXOBoSs]

Originally Posted by cR.ChadMann

I...
eh...
Okay, if community funds and supports it - it will grow. Growth leads to exposure, exposure leads to marketing opportunities ... that means sponsorship. It's addressing the 'catch 22' situation currently in place where we have zero exposure.. and low competition.. boost competition, boost exposure, boost investment returns.

Marketing 101 big boy.
EDIT - actually I'm going to explain this a bit more.. just so I don't get silly responses..
If you want to grow something that has no ROI benefit.. it's hard to get external investment. So you have to prop it up and bleed funds into it to bolster it while it finds its feet. Fake self-sufficiency until the beast can support itself. make sense? okay.. good, now go support eSports how ever you can. ty

Anyway, I'm sure there are plenty of talented individuals in the community that can promote the Aus WCS effectively.. also, Blizzard is involved.. I'm sure they will do their part to bolster the event.

E-sports isn't so easy. There are numerous reasons why. Firstly, there is not enough general interest (viewership wise as a whole) to lure the sponsors that matter (non IT/gaming brands).

Next you have also calculate how long you are actually going to waste (better word than bleed) money to try to 'prop up' a saturated market of people wasting money.

Then you have to decide what kind of ROI you are actually looking for, whether its sales, cash, awareness.

99% of sponsors in e-sports are in it for sales. When sales dry up, they disappear. There is no self sustaining model in e-sports yet, because it relies purely on sponsorships. And because the market is so niche, unless a self sustaining model appears, it will die again (everyone is working on finding a self sustaining model).

The problem with the vision you have is not that you are wrong, but that SEA is so far behind in business development, most of the companies involved or willing to be involved in e-sports have already got their sales from AUS via other, bigger, brands.

The best way to change the trend would be to some how, make ACL 3x bigger on the same budget. Have people do active video media for ACL that is viral (reddit TL etc) and then bank on that.

Anyway, the problem with business in e-sports is that no one has been successful before. Whoever can become successful, will be the ones that live forever and can potentially monopolize.

re: sending my team members to mlg, this fits hand in hand with what I am saying. The only possible way for me to get any sign of a return is to have the people on my team go. Otherwise its just dead air and money, and most probably promoting other peoples sponsors. No one works for free, we all look to get something out of it, that includes self satisfaction.

Quick Comments

Nemo:

That's the way it works and too few people understand it

[ROOT`iaguz]

Another good idea for WCS is just to do what england did for theirs.

"oh shit our players are all bad.... SEND FOR TASTOSIS!"

25k viewers **** yeah

As regards sunset we all have our small roles. I am a player. I have to play and be entertaining and hopefully if I do that well enough it works. Ditto for all the players, all the casters and all the manager folk and all the other people. It's one thing to think about solutions to problems, but **** it. You have your roles. It's simple. Just do that and do it well.

Quick Comments

	inFeZa:	.......................................
	Paroxysm:	so true...
	Dox:	this guy keeps shit real (and interesting)
	Sunset:	Awh. Am I the tweeter? -_-
	nGenLight:	likewise the scholars need to theorycraft for solutions so we have better understanding of our roles
	AxSGRiM:	uk players aren't bad ==
	NOM:	^ But there not sexy like Aussie players :p

[inFeZa]

Originally Posted by xGKingiaguz

Another good idea for WCS is just to do what england did for theirs.

"oh shit our players are all bad.... SEND FOR TASTOSIS!"

25k viewers **** yeah

You know what... as much as this shits me it kinda is true. We are having internationals for WCS apparently, dont think it's tastosis, still should bring some viewers in if its a name worth knowing. Maybe wolf/khaldor as korea isn't too far.? Just have to wait and see.

Whoever it is, it will be a pleasure to meet and observe for them!

[bLaCkcAt]

Malaysian scene is dead? Owh man
I just started picking up sc2 (from BW)...

Quick Comments

	Sunset:	Don't listen to the big scary man. You can be our Blackcat <3
	inFeZa:	Nothing is stopping you from playing.

[syfChadMann]

I'm all for getting some of the scene's movers and shakers together and collaborating for some big dawg shizz... I know right.. I'm trying to be professional and I say "big dawg shizz" - idgaf.

Anyway, I agree with alot of the points being addressed, in short - we need to be professional, promote our sponsors, give ROI to investors and build the scene - its not going to happen overnight and alot of effort needs to be expended before it does. we can all do our part - spread awareness and fund events.. if you have some extra cash and love eSports - why not put on a tournament - or contact someone that can on your behalf?.. Perhaps nirvAnA could set up a donation section to donate to your favourite team to help them build up?.. but I see the next step for SEA is to build its competition and get out to MLG and GSL and make a name for ourselves. Lets do dis yo.

eSports
SEA SC2
the saddle club.

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VoxMSI.Rogue:

♥ tsc 4 lyfe

[NvRossi]

chucked a few tweets at Khaldor while he was doing a Q and A while streaming the Gigabyte and Nvidia tournament to 5k viewers and saw quite a few others tweeting regarding Aus etc...

He is aware of our scene and said we have alot of potential :P

Quick Comments

inFeZa:

:)

[cruxSpoon]

Originally Posted by cR.ChadMann

Quote:
Originally Posted by |Erasmus|
I've studied enough business and economics to know that if I"m looking for an investment opportunity, I'd be looking for something which has a way of making money, not something running more spectacular events propped up by donations.

So you don't need to be too condescending. But that is also my own opinion, and I know I'm not alone in it.

And of course they can, I didn't say they couldn't.
I have a degree in marketing dude..

ROI isn't all about dollars and cents. It's about exposure.. brand awareness, advertising, promotion... these activities see no direct ROI - but build brand awareness and product awareness - that leads to sales.

You're both arguing semantics!!!

"that leads to sales" = ROI. That is the end game goal of investment no matter which way you look at it. For dick measuring purposes I am a Finance Major AND Bachelor of Law. So i've seen these words thrown around in a few contexts. To both your points however.

Donations whilst helpful, are not sustainable for a few reasons. For sustainability you need to have consistency. Donations are not consistent in both amount and when they come in. sc2sea has done a great job of keeping prize pools consistent for its tournaments by using the donations wisely. I can't help but feel if there was constant set amount being injected into sc2sea every month that we would see larger prize pools, attracting larger players. Now we see that as an investment. *NB - you may define these terms differently, but pls take away the substance not the terminology argument from this spiel.

Now why would anyone invest in sc2? Exposure, advertising? All the points have been hit above. As a team with sponsors you know what that means (Mr Chad ). In order for exposure those players have to do well, at foreign events. This is one way to gain sc2sea popularity.

The other is, as discussed, to gain popularity at home to attract foreigners to sea. The investments we see here are already taking place in such things as ACL and by Benji and Systems streams on tournaments such as xGTL and IEM Gamescom.

To summarise this summary!

1. Dont argue semantics where the content is same pls...this is how we start down the circlejerk trains.
2. Investment in players needs more exposure - do better at foreign events
3. Investment in tournaments at home needs more exposure - need to attract bigger names.
4. Mooses point still not dealt with, brought up earlier (system i think) - self sustainability, whcih invokes points 2,3 about getting returns on investments (see the running in circles?)

All i've done really is summarize and clarify the majority of whats been said before it gets into a big argument fueled by misunderstanding.

Quick Comments

	mGGDrGooSe:	c-c-c-c-c-combo breaker
	PiG:	<3
	Cyanide:	nicely put!
	AxSGRiM:	ezpz

[breadfan]

I'm really enjoying this thread now.

Dox/Sunset/Inmaniac pointed out something important re: spreading awareness.

I, as a lowly platinum player who hopes one day to be good at this game, but otherwise just really loves starcraft 2 and esports, can do a lot more than what I am doing. I've regularly tried to think of ways I can "help out" the scene - maybe I need to save some pennies and donate a prize pool to some tournament. Maybe I can use my various skills in some way to initiate some big thing. Maybe I need to volunteer to help with some of the behind the scenes stuff, like admining tournaments so existing tournament organisers can focus on other things.

More simple than any of those, upvoting reddit posts is something that I don't really do. I've never been a reddit user, and I only made an account to upvote a post about the ACL Gold Coast stream earlier in the year. But I recognise there are tons of active SC2 redditors, and me making a more focused drive to upvote ANYTHING to do with the SEA scene can make a big impact. So I will strive to do this simple yet overlooked task, starting today. And hey, maybe we can implement some forum feature where people can add links to reddit posts related to SEA, so that the people who aren't likely to spend the time searching through piles of posts in search can make a better habit of reading/upvoting the relevant ones. I don't know how this would work, but I'm sure there are a few ways it could be done well.

Another thing that has been sort of touched upon is that we do have friends in the "upper" SC2 community. People who actually participate in SEA events and I believe would actually love to see our scene succeed. People like Incontrol, who supports and casts charity events like the rumble in the bronze, and for that matter participates in things like the EG vs Eve showmatch. People like Khaldor who casted, I believe, the Dox Cup #2. Perhaps even Tastosis to an extent, when they declare they want to come to SEA events. This is more thinking out loud, but I'm sure this can be utilised in some way - maybe if we can create ways in which it is worthwhile to involve them more, we can get more exposure. Exposure may not be our only issue, but it is one of them.

Quick Comments

PiG:

reddit links on sc2sea good idea! Remember sharing FB and retweeting is just as important!

[VoxMSI.Rogue]

I think we should make an sea video, some form of parody featuring our top players and community members.

Like a kony 2012 inspired South East Asian SC2 appeal video.

SEA 2012.

Quick Comments

	iVnStinger:	^
	Paroxysm:	Seconded!

[PiG]

Originally Posted by IrisRogue

I think we should make an sea video, some form of parody featuring our top players and community members.

Like a kony 2012 inspired South East Asian SC2 appeal video.

SEA 2012.

Any sort of highlight video for our players/events/tournaments would be fantastic to be played at barcraft... been fantasising about this for a while now :P


@Paroxysm ahh yeah I get you man I thought you were going for the "lets put our tournaments on NA and EU time and invite them all to play to get viewers" which while valid shouldn't be something we do too often! But as a let's use those big sits like reddit/TL etc i couldn't agree more.

This isn't about us desperately holding signs in the streets. It's a mixture of passing on the word in ladder/bnetchat/clan communications and getting in the habit of hyping and discussing our tournaments consistently through all the correct avenues! I agree with you 100% Payoxy!

[Fenner]

Originally Posted by PiG

Any sort of highlight video for our players/events/tournaments would be fantastic to be played at barcraft... been fantasising about this for a while now :P

I might actually give this a shot since I have some downtime from sc2 right now!

Quick Comments

inFeZa:

do it do it do it!

[Eddie]

Originally Posted by PiG

As for viewer numbers I don't know what numbers you're looking at but since Benji unlocked how to use the TL featured stream function and the rest of SEA slowly learned from that, the views on SEA events have been steadily rising higher and higher. (Edit: This was based off anecdotal evidence aka. nothing, and benji informs me numbers have stagnated over the past year:

Originally Posted by xGKingBenji

This is incorrect, on average our stream viewer numbers have not significantly increased in the last year or so.

The Masters Cup has certainly increased viewers. It does flucuate at times, but over the last 9 months or so we've been averaging 10-15k (600-1500 live), where in our first 9 months or so we would have been averaging 5-10k.

This is due to a lot of factors, mainly more awareness of SEA players, the casters, our scene, and event sponsorship.

However, lately there has been a lot of competition for viewers, especially from the multiple worldwide WCS events, but we perform reasonably even so.

Our international versions have also attracted some notable/recognised names, which is pleasing, especially when SEA players perform well against them.

I believe we aren't near our peak, and i have plans to grow the tournament more, and make it better for players and worldwide audiences, and as a result, build SEA esports and show off/support our talented local players.

Originally Posted by Dox

I was under the impression that events like Masters Cup have been rising in viewers over the last 12 months. We've seen some pretty staggering numbers sometimes! Part of me wonders if this is because we omit any shred of "SEA" identity from the title of the event. I tend to think most people avoid SEA branded events because (as far as they're concerned) we have nothing to offer them.

I can't speak for other competitions, but i want people to know they are watching SEA players when watching the Masters Cup.

The official title of the Masters Cup is SEA Masters Cup. As seen on our Wikipedia page, facebook, all event banners, threads, etc. Even our International versions are SEA Masters Cups.

Sometimes the event is called the Sc2sea Masters Cup. It is usually listed as such on the TL event calander.

Originally Posted by PiG

Any sort of highlight video for our players/events/tournaments would be fantastic to be played at barcraft... been fantasising about this for a while now :P

Here are a couple of good ones made by IcedTea, which we play during Masters Cups. (They are perhaps a little dated now - so many team changes!) I think these videos are a great idea, and an awesome opportunity to promote our region/events/players to the wider SC2 community.

You Tube

You Tube

You Tube

You Tube

I'd be more than happy to run more SEA promotional ads during events, if people want to create more.

ACL videos, Barcrafts, player/team highlight videos, SEA SC2 lans, etc. I'd happily promote.

Quick Comments

	PiG:	<3
	NOM:	MORE drunken deth video's!
	nirvAnA:	Loved the IcedTea vidoes all over again!
	DUCKVILLELOL:	If anyone was willing to make a more updated version of these I would be happy to run it randomly when I'm streaming

[Dox]

Originally Posted by Eddie

I can't speak for other competitions, but i want people to know they are watching SEA players when watching the Masters Cup.

The official title of the Masters Cup is SEA Masters Cup. As seen on our Wikipedia page, facebook, all event banners, threads, etc. Even our International versions are SEA Masters Cups.

Sometimes the event is called the Sc2sea Masters Cup. It is usually listed as such on the TL event calander.

Ah, I just meant the (short) name which appears in the TL Stream List, which is "Masters Cup." That's the only information people have when they click on it... or maybe I'm completely wrong, haha! Just going off memory.

[Eddie]

Originally Posted by Dox

Ah, I just meant the (short) name which appears in the TL Stream List, which is "Masters Cup." That's the only information people have when they click on it... or maybe I'm completely wrong, haha! Just going off memory.

You are correct, they require a shortened name for the live stream page, which like you suggested probably works in our favour, as isn't region specific. If people want to know more they either watch stream, click TL calendar link or wiki link.

[Paroxysm]

Originally Posted by Paroxysm

the main people missing are the sc2 lovers already here in aus who don't know about our events. Not tryingtoConvertRugby

Jared, you commented this on my last post, but what I mean was that a lot of people don't know about sc2sea, but they do know about twitter, sc2 reddit, facebook etc. We need to use those forums to advertise as well as our own if we want to bring it to the world. We cant just all go on the street and hold signs. If only we could...