[BaKaiNu]

Originally Posted by Zergtastic

Im confused, what happens after 24 hours, in which he doesn't admit hes a cheater?

Let me guess, you will be very, very sad?

As far as I and various others know, we've played legitimate games vs MeaNy, with nothing really hacker worthy. Thats why we're defending him. Hes not just some random person who has never contributed to the community and hacks for the lulz, hes a guy who people actually know. Hell, hes in a clan as well.

Also, thanks for the videos, its cool to see that cosmos saw just two small possibilities for hacking and then immediately claims MeaNy is a hacker.

I honestly don't like your reasoning. In your post, all your points are telling us that you are being biased because you apparently know the person. The fact here is you have to be objective in the judgement of this issue. How bout there is a possibility of meany getting ahold of the map hack just recently and decided to use it to gain a leverage on his opponent?

Two small possibilities for hacking is still possible hacks. It's like telling someone, oh, it is possible that the X person has murdered the Y person based on the bloody knife the X person is holding. Oh wait, I know that person. He would not do that! It's okay. His not the culprit.

Until meany could clearly explain himself, we shouldn't discount the possibilities.

+ [TL:DR] +

Zergtastic should never join law school for the best of the society.

[CCJester]

Firstly ill start with yes i have watched the replay and no im not going to comment on whether or not it could be map hacking.

I want to comment instead on what this thread has become. It feels now like some sort of witch hunt is underway and it is kind of sickening to see.
Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty and if one game is all the evidence there is... then are we willing to, as Tariichard put it, crucify him?

I think it should be considered that this is not just comments on a forum. This is dragging the reputation of a seemingly well respected member of the SC2SEA community through the dirt.

Yeah, if it turns out that a map hack was used then certainly steps should be taken. But this isn't the way to do it.

[pikk0n]

Isn't there a better way of phrasing the sentences without coming off as directly accusing the person as maphacking? I seen quite a few threads on maphackers and most players are really careful when accusing another player of maphacking even if there are concrete evidence. The OP was definitely too harsh.

That said, it's disappointing that we've got 1 person being trolled by 2 clans, which completely derailed the thread. Meany has said what he has to say and instead of letting things lie at that we're having one highly respected clan coming in to assist Meany's clan in trolling Cosmos.

Back to maphacking, if he was really suspected of maphacking, reporting him would have been the way to go and if Blizzard decides to check his account and finds that he really does hack, he'll be banned anyway so participation in tournaments here wouldn't matter. Of course, if he is not maphacking, Blizzard wouldn't ban his account so either way, it's much better than accusing someone in a public forum when even you yourself said that the evidence were inconclusive. Let's move on from this and let Blizzard handle the maphacking matters themselves.

[AvPoker]

I think we should take this to criminal court and have Cosmos and Homer prove Meany's guilt beyond reasonable doubt wearing fancy barrister wigs.

[Satu]

Originally Posted by BakaInu

I honestly don't like your reasoning. In your post, all your points are telling us that you are being biased because you apparently know the person. The fact here is you have to be objective in the judgement of this issue. How bout there is a possibility of meany getting ahold of the map hack just recently and decided to use it to gain a leverage on his opponent?

Two small possibilities for hacking is still possible hacks. It's like telling someone, oh, it is possible that the X person has murdered the Y person based on the bloody knife the X person is holding. Oh wait, I know that person. He would not do that! It's okay. His not the culprit.

Until meany could clearly explain himself, we shouldn't discount the possibilities.

+ [TL:DR] +

Zergtastic should never join law school for the best of the society.

Didn't know we were treating this like law.

And no, its more like X person did Y? Well, hes never done Y in the past, so he has no reason to do Y now, especially seeing as how much he has to lose. Your example would be valid if MeaNy was a clear hacker, which hes not.

+ [TL:DR] +

BakaInu should never claim that anyone else should never join law school for the best of the society, based off contradictory arguements.

[BaKaiNu]

Originally Posted by Zergtastic

Didn't know we were treating this like law.

And no, its more like X person did Y? Well, hes never done Y in the past, so he has no reason to do Y now, especially seeing as how much he has to lose. Your example would be valid if MeaNy was a clear hacker, which hes not.

+ [TL:DR] +

BakaInu should never claim that anyone else should never join law school for the best of the society, based off contradictory arguements.

He never did Y in the past, but he could have done it now. People change. What makes u think you know a person based on your own personal experience of 1 or 2 times with him? How much does he have to lose, his account? Why do people commit crimes considering how much they have to lose? Greed? Power? Heh... It happens.

He isn't a clear hacker, however, based on your argument. You're being BIASED to his side, not considering the proper evidence shown. Your closing one eye and seeing as if nothing happened and the thread starter is just an idiot who just wants to find trouble based on YOUR OWN subjective experience. This is the wrong way to face the case at hand.

Oh, and this is like law, you're suppose to look at the evidence and make a case based on logical and rational thinking rather than subjective experiences.

+ [TL;DR] +

Zergtastic still fails as a lawyer seeing that he can't think rationally and logically.

[pRoTimber]

its kinda obvious from the 2 video link, i would share cosmos grief..like ur comments in the video, "SERIOUSLY!?"

[[TA]LoSt]

Ladies, take it into PM if you two want to keep arguing pointlessly AT EACH OTHERS LEGAL ABILITIES like this. I'm sure if you weren't a moderator Nirvana would be laying the smackdown and issuing warnings; I've seen them issued for less.

Back on topic, I'm pretty sold unless MeaNy has something to say to defend himself. IMO I think SPR handled this incorrectly, they shouldn't have said anything until concrete evidence for or against MeaNy was discovered and discussed. If a TA member was found hacking with legitimate proof (like in this thread) the leaders would handle it correctly and not immediately rip shit on whoever is accusing them without considering the facts first. Now all we do is wait for MeaNy to come forward, admit or defend himself, and apologize. The longer this is drawn out, and if it is found later down the track that he really did hack, it will reflect poorly on MeaNy, the whole SPR clan and those here who blindly defended him without real facts.

[Makra]

Rofl Bakainu, you think lawyers are supposed to be impartial and unbiased? I dare say Zergtastic would make a good lawyer :P

[Satu]

Originally Posted by BakaInu

He never did Y in the past, but he could have done it now. People change. What makes u think you know a person based on your own personal experience of 1 or 2 times with him? How much does he have to lose, his account? Why do people commit crimes considering how much they have to lose? Greed? Power? Heh... It happens.

He isn't a clear hacker, however, based on your argument. You're being BIASED to his side, not considering the proper evidence shown. Your closing one eye and seeing as if nothing happened and the thread starter is just an idiot who just wants to find trouble based on YOUR OWN subjective experience. This is the wrong way to face the case at hand.

Oh, and this is like law, you're suppose to look at the evidence and make a case based on logical and rational thinking rather than subjective experiences.

+ [TL;DR] +

Zergtastic still fails as a lawyer seeing that he can't think rationally and logically.

I feel like Im being trolled, this isn't a court, Im allowed to say he hasn't been a hacker in the past. Thats kind of the point of what I was saying... It gives a much better picture than assuming hes a no-skilled dude who trolls sc2 by hacking, and also shows that Cosmos may be wrong to assume that two possiblities for hacking ARE hacking. Thats not bias, thats what the situation is.

+ [TL;DR] +

Im glad Baka sees himself as a more skilled lawyer than myself. Maybe he should use that skill where it isn't seen as pointless for the situation.

[EveMassacrisM]

I think it's better if Mods/Admins can have a few lines at the top of the thread to tell people to give comments only if they've watched the replay. Team reputation has nothing to do with individual conduct. I have played with quite a few SPRs myself but none of them were really all that suspicious.

Back to the replay, I'm gonna list down all smallest details that are suspicious about the game. Judge for yourself:

3:14 Amazing reaction on the SCV as if he saw the marine coming. If it were me controlling my worker would've been hit at least once.

7:06 Again, amazing Banshee reaction to avoid the marines with barely any sight.

11:57 Very suspiciously flips screen to the 6 o clock position checking out a random marine as if scouting for a drop with zero vision.

14:17 Again randomly checking the marine at the natural of the 2 oclock spawning position. Zero vision.

14:18 Very suspiciously LOOKING at the unscouted 3rd at the 11 oclock position.

18:39 Stimmed attack on unscouted expo due to correct assummption of his opponent following a popular trend.

18:55 Perfect defense of the drop cuz of game sense again with zero scouting.

19:53 Moving out like a boss with zero scouting even though he was shelled by his opponent's tanks seconds ago.

20:03 Scan right on top of his opponent's army at a pretty random position.

Overall, my say is that MeaNy is more likely to hack than not. If he really does not hack like he claims, then that was very impressive play by his part. Too impressive in fact.

[rookie]

Originally Posted by Zergtastic

Im confused, what happens after 24 hours, in which he doesn't admit hes a cheater?

Let me guess, you will be very, very sad?

As far as I and various others know, we've played legitimate games vs MeaNy, with nothing really hacker worthy. Thats why we're defending him. Hes not just some random person who has never contributed to the community and hacks for the lulz, hes a guy who people actually know. Hell, hes in a clan as well.

Also, thanks for the videos, its cool to see that cosmos saw just two small possibilities for hacking and then immediately claims MeaNy is a hacker.

Just because u played legitimate games vs MeaNy, doesn't mean there isn't the possibility of him hacking afterwards. It could be that MeaNy hacked a SINGLE game the game vs cosmos. Nevertheless he is still a hacker.

That second video link is really ridiculous btw. Quite an evidence to maphacking IMO. Please watch it if you guys haven't.

[masterspr]

Hello.

I am Master of the clan SPR. First time, actually I did not care about it that much because me and my clan members had many games with MeaNy and did not find any weird things.
However, after I watched the replay I just could not cover him because he is my clan member.I found some weird things in the replay too.
Me and some SPR members doubted him as a map-hacker and MeaNy decided to leave the team because he does not want to give bad images to SPR.
It is still not sure whether he is map-hacker or not and he left the clan already but It happened when MeaNy was in SPR clan. I apologize this happen to all (especially Cosmos) as a SPR master.

Quick Comments

	Dox:	respect
	Cute:
	SungInSPR:
	V_enDetta:	That's why you're the master and the other flaming SPR members who defended meany blindly aren't.
	nGenLight:
	lolwut:	That's why you're the master and the other flaming SPR members who defended meany blindly aren't.

[Satu]

Ok, I believe now that he hacked during this game. Looking at a marine through the fog of war, with no vision of it himself to check if its a drop and also moving his scouting scv away from the watchtower because a marine he didn't have vision of was moving there kinda gives it away. The original two things aren't as conclusive imo.

[BaKaiNu]

Originally Posted by Makra

Rofl Bakainu, you think lawyers are supposed to be impartial and unbiased? I dare say Zergtastic would make a good lawyer :P

I dare say that lawyers are suppose to be impartial and unbiased. Thats why we have bad lawyers.

Shall I say, case closed?

[RockSPR]

Sorry cosmos!

Quick Comments

TAriiChard:

You should watch your language

[Xenomorph]

Originally Posted by [TA]LoSt

Back on topic, I'm pretty sold unless MeaNy has something to say to defend himself. IMO I think SPR handled this incorrectly, they shouldn't have said anything until concrete evidence for or against MeaNy was discovered and discussed. If a TA member was found hacking with legitimate proof (like in this thread) the leaders would handle it correctly and not immediately rip shit on whoever is accusing them without considering the facts first. Now all we do is wait for MeaNy to come forward, admit or defend himself, and apologize. The longer this is drawn out, and if it is found later down the track that he really did hack, it will reflect poorly on MeaNy, the whole SPR clan and those here who blindly defended him without real facts.

You are correct Lost. It was just a natural reaction by me and other members such as sungin and master to defend a member who we had been with for a very long time and had no suspiscion of hacking whatsoever before this game. However after looking at once particular point in the game which Zirggirl pointed out (14:17) we decided that hacking was a very real possibility and we apologise to the community and to cosmos for blindly defending him. We have been in much discussion about this issue but can't 100% conclude that he is hacking (to many areguements for and against). However please refer to masters post above.

Cheers,

XenomorphSPR

[Dox]

Props to SPR for their recovery here, good to see mature and rational responses.

Quick Comments

	Nvdeth:
	TAavanar:

[[TA]LoSt]

Originally Posted by Dox

Props to SPR for their recovery here, good to see mature and rational responses.

Definitely. Quite a few of us are disappointed because he seemed like a good kid too.

[Makra]

Originally Posted by BakaInu

I dare say that lawyers are suppose to be impartial and unbiased. Thats why we have bad lawyers.

Shall I say, case closed?

Um, no. Lawyers have a duty to represent their client as best as they can. That involves being biased towards the client. It is the judges who should be impartial and unbiased.