[Champi]

Originally Posted by NvRossi

9:24 AsGCHoBo Select Engineering Bay (90384), Deselect all

Sorry Chobo, you are busted. you do not even have an engineering bay in this game, sc2gears has proven to us that you are using a program to conceal your 20 second screenlock hack

This is 100% concrete evidence. you cannot explain this, you are a proven hacker

[Rage]

Well, replays really are nothing more than a long list of commands exactly like the snippet that was posted, which the game client interprets on the fly - that's why replays can lag on 8x speed on a weak PC because its having to interpret and display the actions so fast, and also why replay files are only a few KB instead of several GB as they would be were they video.

Its plenty conceivable that a program could cause the game client to write confusing actions.

[Eddie]

Serious accusations! Hopefully the truth can be found. Since it was my event he won, i'd definitely love to hear more about these concerns, as well as more input from CHoBo.

It's worth noting that while this is his first big tournament win, he has participated in many! Masters Cups, SEASL, etc. Always plays decent, but not quite placing. Perhaps Sunday it just all went right for him?

Also he has been both GM on SEA + NA for quite some time. Unsure of KR ranking? Unless hacked every game from day 1, clearly is a smart and skilled player.

He has coached quite a few people, and preaches an unorthodox style. Grand Master Manual coach here.

Has been labelled a very cheesy, all-in and unorthodox player by many. This may work well in ladder games, but tournaments are a different situation, which may explain the lack of success to date.

I was only able to watch the Masters Cup finals live - missed the other games in the tournament due to admin duties.

That G1 4 rax push on Shakuras wasn't really suspicious to me. If he was paying attention to the minimap me might have spotted the overlord near his rax's, as it did show up. Further more, as he pushes out, no lings on towers? Then pokes up ramp and already 2 spines + queens minimun, all indicate that he'd been scouted, and Mafia was fairly prepared for it, likely producing/holding back some lings. Like he said, might have won, might have lost, that all seems pretty reasonable to me. Furthermore he made some nice decisions later into the game, building up the vikings, only revealing some, going for bc/ghost, but largely i think it came down to that lucky nuke, which Mafia admitted he missed. No nuke, Mafia might/probably would have won.

G2 was just a well executed proxy, and smart position. G3 i think he just outplayed Mafia, won the main engagement, killed off mutas, was able to keep on pushing the advantage from there, with the benefit of nice tank positioning and drops. Mafia likely quite tired i'd imagine at this time.


- Would love to hear more about other replays. More from CHoBo, and see him attend and perform at live events, which is the best way to prove ones ability to the community.

From what i've seen, and his records to date, i don't think there is sufficient evidence of hacking. We all must be sure, as it's a pretty big thing to accuse someone of. Would be very sad if he does actually hack.

I'm not that great at analysis, so i'll leave it to those better at the task, and have a stronger understanding of the game.

Quick Comments

	MrToast:	Eddie saying what all those who care think.
	TAEdgE:	he got the 2nd best record on NA from anyone on SEA, when he was unknown.. that can be seen as suss
	nirvAnA:
	RicocheT:
	inFeZa:	eddie is a bause
	CHoBo(kice):	tytytyty

[Rage]

I would like to see this process applied to the other replays, personally.

Quick Comments

FaDeBadger:

Agreed, although only worked in this case because of screen lock

[ROOT`iaguz]

I have extremely limited experience with SC2gears. Is it reliable at noting actions like this? Perhaps this is just the program bugging out or something. But I do agree that is incredibly suspicious and I'm leaning more towards him hacking.

[Rage]

Originally Posted by xGKingiaguz

I have extremely limited experience with SC2gears. Is it reliable at noting actions like this? Perhaps this is just the program bugging out or something. But I do agree that is incredibly suspicious and I'm leaning more towards him hacking.

So far, all we can see from this record of actions is that SC2gears appears to be reporting actions that don't happen when you actually watch the replay. The cause of that can't really be determined for sure unless we have a sample size greater than 1 replay.

[TABiggun]

Originally Posted by xGKingiaguz

I have extremely limited experience with SC2gears. Is it reliable at noting actions like this? Perhaps this is just the program bugging out or something. But I do agree that is incredibly suspicious and I'm leaning more towards him hacking.

Well, both my sc2gears and Rossi's have the same things, and im sure anyone else who runs an analysis through sc2 gears.

I am now inspecting other replays of games played in LANs of professional players to compare what actions are being performed and if there are any similar things occuring.

[TABiggun]

I would also like to add that these actions that are 'missing' from Chobo's point of view can be found in other games.

On Mafia vs Chobo on shakuras, at 5:30 Chobo randomly looks into the main. In the replay it shows him having scvs selected and not making any commands.

But in sc2 gears there are two commands which read "Build Refinery", when he doesnt do that at all.

5:29 AsGCHoBo Select Supply Depot (20368), Deselect all
5:29 AsGCHoBo Lower Supply Depot (Supply Depot)
5:30 iMMafia Select Hatchery (10290), Deselect all
5:30 AsGCHoBo Select Supply Depot (103cc), Deselect all
5:30 iMMafia Select Drone x14 (10294,10298,1029c,102a0,102a4,102a8,102dc,202e0,1 02e4,102e8,10308,10314,10340,1034c), Deselect all
5:30 iMMafia Select Hatchery (10290), Deselect all
5:30 AsGCHoBo Lower Supply Depot (Supply Depot)
5:31 AsGCHoBo Select SCV (303fc), Deselect all
5:31 iMMafia Right click; target: x=137.4,y=129.5
5:31 AsGCHoBo Build Refinery; target: Vespene Geyser (10210)
5:31 AsGCHoBo Select SCV (102c8), Deselect all
5:31 AsGCHoBo Build Refinery; target: Vespene Geyser (10238)
5:32 iMMafia Right click; target: Mineral Field (10028)
5:32 AsGCHoBo Hotkey Select 4
5:32 iMMafia Hotkey Select 4
5:32 AsGCHoBo Attack; target: x=31.8,y=55.0
5:32 iMMafia Select Larva x4 (303e4,10484,1048c,10494), Deselect all
5:32 iMMafia Train Drone
5:32 iMMafia Train Drone
5:32 AsGCHoBo Deselect all
5:33 AsGCHoBo Right click; target: x=25.9,y=56.9
5:33 AsGCHoBo Right click; target: x=25.2,y=56.7

Edit: The data was wrong due to sc2gears time conversion, but there is still a very suspicious blatent look at the main and natural for no reason.

[Rage]

As xpaperclip has just pointed out, SC2gears lists those actions in real time, whereas the replay runs on Blizzard time. 9:31 on the replay is not necessarily at the same point as the sc2gears list, unless sc2gears is running on blizzard time.

[NvPinder]

Hopefully it's proven beyond any doubt whatsoever.

Dear chobo

You Tube

You Tube

If you ever manage to do anything remotely decent at LAN then maybe you will have a decent argument, but untill you stop losing to mid masters SEA players on lan but rape top-tier players online, you're always going to be a joke just like you were well before this thread even opened.

[UHF]

I get this when I parse

9:20 Peleus Deselect 3 units
9:21 AsGCHoBo Select Marine x4 (10290,102a0,40310,70384), Deselect all
9:21 AsGCHoBo Right click; target: x=51.3,y=127.0
9:21 Peleus Right click; target: Extractor (103f8)
9:21 AsGCHoBo Right click; target: x=51.5,y=126.2
9:21 AsGCHoBo Right click; target: x=51.7,y=126.0
9:21 Peleus Hotkey Select 4
9:21 Peleus Select Larva x4 (203e0,103e8,103f0,10400), Deselect all
9:21 Peleus Hotkey Select 4
9:21 Peleus Select Larva x4 (203e0,103e8,103f0,10400), Deselect all
9:22 Peleus Hotkey Select 4
9:22 Peleus Select Larva x4 (203e0,103e8,103f0,10400), Deselect all
9:22 Peleus Hotkey Select 4
9:22 Peleus Select Larva x4 (203e0,103e8,103f0,10400), Deselect all
9:22 Peleus Train Zergling
9:22 Peleus Train Zergling
9:23 Peleus Train Zergling
9:23 Peleus Select Egg (203e0), Deselect 1 unit
9:23 Peleus Train Zergling
9:23 Peleus Select Egg (103e8), Deselect 2 units
9:23 Peleus Train Zergling
9:23 Peleus Select Egg (103f0), Deselect 3 units
9:23 Peleus Train Zergling
9:23 Peleus Select Egg (10400), Deselect 4 units
9:24 Peleus Select Drone x5 (40274,902f0,30328,2038c,203c8), Deselect all
9:25 Peleus Hotkey Select 4
9:26 Peleus Select Drone x14 (402f8,40308,b032c,50338,70358,10364,9036c,3037c,2 0394,20398,203a4,103bc,203c0,203d0), Deselect all
9:27 Peleus Hotkey Select 4
9:31 Peleus Hotkey Select 1
9:31 Peleus Hotkey Select 4
9:32 Peleus Select Queen (20298), Deselect all
9:33 Peleus Spawn Larva (Queen); target: Hatchery (101fc)
9:33 Peleus Hotkey Select 4
9:34 Peleus Select Larva x4 (100300,1041c,10424,1042c), Deselect all
9:34 Peleus Hotkey Select 4
9:34 Peleus Select Larva x4 (100300,1041c,10424,1042c), Deselect all
9:34 Peleus Hotkey Select 4
9:34 Peleus Select Larva x5 (100300,1041c,20420,10424,1042c), Deselect all
9:34 Peleus Hotkey Select 4
9:34 Peleus Select Larva x5 (100300,1041c,20420,10424,1042c), Deselect all
9:35 Peleus Train Zergling
9:35 Peleus Train Zergling
9:35 Peleus Train Zergling
9:35 Peleus Select Egg (100300), Deselect 1 unit
9:35 Peleus Train Zergling
9:35 Peleus Select Egg (1041c), Deselect 2 units
9:35 Peleus Train Zergling
9:35 Peleus Select Egg (20420), Deselect 3 units
9:35 Peleus Train Zergling
9:35 Peleus Select Egg (10424), Deselect 4 units
9:36 Peleus Train Zergling
9:36 Peleus Select Egg (1042c), Deselect 5 units
9:36 Peleus Select Queen (2030c), Deselect all
9:39 AsGCHoBo Hotkey Select 1
9:39 AsGCHoBo Train Marine
9:39 AsGCHoBo Train Marine
9:39 AsGCHoBo Train Marine
9:39 AsGCHoBo Hotkey Select 2

Ie. he doesn't make any actions

Quick Comments

	nirvAnA:	This is the log everyone should have seen
	Uglymutt:	Thanks

[ROOT`iaguz]

I'm not referring to just that particular game, I mean like could you pick a random 20 seconds from any game and reliably get a list of actions that is accurate to what happens when you watch the replay.

Because if so then yea sure 100% hacker ban the ******. If not then that's not a very good way to confirm/disconfirm hackers.

Again though yea that is suspect as ****.

[Another]

i think its also important to look into the hacks interaction with sc2gears, i have no idea how it works so may be nothing, but it might have a special interaction

[Strafe]

If you can find such an instance again you can rule out any chance of him not hacking. Right now it seems likely you guys caught yourself a big hacking fish. It does explain why he wasn't able to beat platinum league one day and then suddenly own it up in GM in a time span of 2 months or so. Let's wait for Chobo's side of the story though. Maybe he can make a sensible explanation for all of this. It does start to look grim for him.

I am still secretly hoping he doesn't hack, because it will be a sad day for competitive gaming. Not only would Mafia have been denied a victory and his prize money, but also all the players like Targa, Enderrr, Yang who he took out on his side of the bracket were unfairly affected by this. The Master Cup is a great event and I hope it's here to stay, but maphackers are an issue in any online event. If Chobo is indeed confirmed as a maphacker then I hope the organizers of the Master Cup will ban him indefinitely from participating and obviously not pay him his prize money. I personally don't think it should be awarded to Mafia either as Targa/Enderr/Yang also didn't get a shot to compete for it, because of him. So instead I'd like to see the prize money to be added as a bonus to the next event.

Still let's hope he didn't actually hack

Quick Comments

Dox:

your posts are few, but wise

[Trinion]

Originally Posted by Rage

As xpaperclip has just pointed out, SC2gears lists those actions in real time, whereas the replay runs on Blizzard time. 9:31 on the replay is not necessarily at the same point as the sc2gears list, unless sc2gears is running on blizzard time.

According to Sc2gears
"Sc2gears by default converts APM and time values to real time. You can disable this on the Replay parser tab of the Miscellaneous settings dialog. "

Is this what you are referring to?

[Rage]

I certainly hope that the masters cup prize money will at least be put on hold until this is sorted out.

[CHoBo(kice)]

This post I will be continually updating with answers to previous posts. I will not answer anything beyond this point because it will just go on forever.

I am going to work my way from most recent post back words.

sc2gears analysis - I am not sure of the integrity of this tool. I am sure with constant updates/bug fixes... This could be a bug.

the reason why I didn't want to write responses to allegations was because I don't hack and thought most would realise this by watching replays. But it has gone viral in the opposite direction and sadly I have to spend my precious time defending myself now.

[ToR.Arnor]

Originally Posted by Rage

I certainly hope that the masters cup prize money will at least be put on hold until this is sorted out.

knowing how awesome Eddie is, he probably already sent out the winnings

[iM yang]

Originally Posted by Strafe

Yang who he took out on his side of the bracket were unfairly affected by this. The Master Cup is a great event and I hope it's here to stay, but maphackers are an issue in any online event.

our games were straight up and he beat me fair & square, unsure about targa/enderr games tho

Quick Comments

	FvRphoneheha:	Nice of you to say that :)
	nirvAnA:
	xGKingdelete:
	CHoBo(kice):	yes sir. g2 was close

[NvPinder]

sc2gears thing is wrong 100%, im pretty sure sc2gears reads exactly from the replay, so there is no way to prove it in sc2gears that there isnt in the sc2 replay itself (if he selects a building he cant see, if sc2gears is showing he has it selected, it will show he has it selected in the game too).

Unfortunately as people have said, with hacking technology the way it is today you cannot prove map hacking beyond 0 doubt, the hacks are too good and it's practically impossible to prove past the obvious. Him taking a different path with vikings to snipe overlords out on the map every game but hitting every overlord perfectly, pathing perfectly to pylons, building walls when he needs them and not lifting them when he doesn't and having his screen lock for a decent amount of time when players are usually playing incredibly quickly is about the most evidence you're ever going to get.

Everything else will always be circumstantial and just like the counter-strike community, the only way to be sure the tournament has 100% legitimacy is to play at LAN. Hence why online counter-strike 1.6 tournaments were laughable and have been practically pointless for a long time now. No one cares because anyone can cheat and get away with it with relative ease to the point where everyone does cheat because why the **** not.