[TargA]

and this guy was known as yamama.. : ) the most obvious hacker in the history of time.

I dont know if he uploaded the game vs me on ohana, but people should give that a watch!

[MrToast]

Originally Posted by NvRossi

When multiple people already think someone hacks based off their online experiences with someone (not too common in my circle) as well as his lack of LAN qualifications based off references from
Xavi: “ loses to nobodies at perth LANs”
Yang: “[2:26:57 AM] yang: he barely plays and when he shows up to lan he loses, then plays in the masters cup after weeks of not playing and has perfect decision making? seems suss”

A discussion between us followed by the analysis of some his replays we all came to the same agreement. Here is our evidence. He is damned in our eyes already but we will present our evidence for you to make your own judgements. If you’re going to respond to this please do so objectively and having actually watched all the games in order to make an educated decision. This level of analysis is necessary as this is extremely serious in our eyes.


I’ll be analysing his tvps vs Yang and tvts vs myself from the previous masters cup ( a series in which a TA member notified me he was listed as a spectator in the streams observers)

Mafia is analysing his tvz’s vs Enderr and Targa is analysing his tvz’s vs Mafia. These are the only reps we have looked at so far.

Targa's Analysis

Hacker analysis by TargA, Mafia vs asgchobo series.


Mafia vs asgchobo Shakuras game:


link: http://www.sc2sea.com/replays.php?do=viewreplay&id=1257

5:05 stares a long time at the overlord that spots the proxy raxes

knows that he has to commit, if not it will look too obvious.
Sees a glimpse of the overlord on his screen at4:57-4:58

6:12 sees 2 spines and 2 queens, pulls back everything

we had a discussion with terrans and zergs, if you see 2 spines and 2 queens you still commit cause this usually means the zerg has no units, and 20 scvs 14 marines kills queens without energy and spines really fast. At this point Mafia was pumping out lings and had speed almost finished. Chobo did not see the lings.
The point isnt what other terrans would do if they have time to think about it it is about what Kice has done in that split decision. You cannot fault a player for making a decision I feel lots os terrans would have made having seen the overlord that saw his prosy barracks

7:05 kinda suspect that he keeps calm and and doesnt raise his supply depots when the ling counter attack is coming. Imo, he knows exactly how many lings are coming. He even keeps one of his raxes lifted, when in reality a ton of lings and banelings could be coming and that would mean game over.

You can see the silloutte of his barracks trying to land however the lings run under it stopping it from landing. He didn't not land the barracks on purpose. 7:09 Actively selects the supply depot and tries to raise it however by the time this happens there are lings standing on top of it.

He also lands the 3rd rax in his wall as soon as he is done microing

11:50 takes the 6o clock expand, cause he knows that mafia is making infestors, chobo has 2 engineering bays but no turrets, still havent scanned or scouted mafias base.

Chobo was behind and knew he would have to take a secret base to try and come back as would most terrans who were in this position. Also it is not completely uncommon to forgo turrets and assume infestor ling play as many MANY terrans even at the code S level do.

12:50 lifts up his wall, makes reactors, and takes the 4th. He has no idea what Mafia is doing ( this is also the timing where a ling bling muta attack would happen) , chobo has no tanks and is sitting calm with his marines.

Again not uncommom to assume ling infestor play. Chobo only lifts his buildings because he is getting ready to secure his 4th base and stands in a super defensive position WITH TANKS on the high ground

He also moves his marines down, still no map control/ vision.

14:00 Was gonna send 2 drop ships to mafias main,but knows that mafia has that covered with overlords, he sends them to mafias 5th that was about to be made, he sends the drop so mafias overlord doesnt see it.

A bit Suss however i believe we all have made a decision then made a 180 degree turn in favour of a better decision

15:10 mafias great spire is building, chobo ( still has no map vision or knows what mafia is doing) scans mafias main, and then his natural. Right after he drops 3 starports. Imo he does this so it doesnt look suspect.

As I am sure you know 15 minute is way way way enough time for a hive to be done and it is standard for terrans to scan from 13-16 minutes to see a hive. Chobo scans the main then the natural. Not much suss here as I think most terrans would agree

16:45 stims a bunch of units to avoid mafia burrowing his ling at the 5th base. Makes a turret too to avoid burrowed infestors.

I have absolutely zero idea how this is suss. Chobo SAW the ling attacking his scv and stimmed a few units to kill it. Again why is this suss?

18:20 hits the money scan right on top of all of mafias unit and spines(3rd time he scanned this game)

I have always believed it is usual to scan the that position since that a majority of the time is where zerg rally their army. I have seem many many terrans scan in that position.

19:10 chobo has a sensor tower, mafia backs, chobo follows the units in the fog, moves the vikings to kill the broods and then scans. (thats not how its supposed to be done)

Completely false. Chobo spreads his vikings take a small portion of his vikings and can see in the sensor tower the slow slow bls moving back after the lings and infestors. Before he is in range of the broodlords he scans and sees them on thier own and then commits.

from 19:30 – 20:30 he has no map control even though he could easily claim it with marines (in theory) then he drops two scans sees everything.

Chobo doesnt see units in his sensor tower range scans just out side it sees nothing then scans behind that to see the whole army. I personally do not see anything suspect about this scanning pattern and would be extremely surprised if you did.

21:20 repositions his units when mafia is moving out, doesnt spread his units at all even though there are red dots on the mini map from the sensor towers ( I would be ******* afraid of the infestors)

Sees that the infestors are no where even CLOSE to his army and re positioned. Also this is hardly a hacking accusation it is just what YOU would have done in a certain situation compared to what chobo did in that situation

after the big fight, keeps making vikings ( normally a zerg would tech switch to ultras, mafia had a large bank and making more broods/ corruptors is not normal)

Because tech swapping to ultras against battle cruisers would work

25:00 hits money scan

The units are actually INSIDE the range of the sensor tower
rest of the game: lots of money scans, hes always controlling his units when mafia attacks. (When I watch the best terrans in the world play they are almost never controlling their units when zerg attacks, always a delay in reaction, this guys reacts before mafia attacks)


replay pack : http://www.mediafire.com/?krq49m2r9mlgdx4

I watched through this replay 5 times 3 times from Chobos point of view and see nothing wrong. Am I wrong on any of the above analysis?

Edit: Its obvious that Rossi and targa didn't take the proper time and look through each players POV before making such heavy accusations

Quick Comments

	nirvAnA:
	xGKingdelete:	perspectives from more people can't hurt
	Zealo:	i really want to see targa beat BCs with ultras
	inFeZa:	the WHOLE day has been filled with discussion about the issue on skype chat.
	Dox:	i enjoy the colour purple
	CHoBo(kice):	ty sir

[iM MaFia]

Toast did you watch enderr vs chobo with my anaylsis?

I spent a very long time doing it, was up till 5am last night if you watch it intently you will understand

Quick Comments

	MrToast:	Only watched this game so far since Rossi was so sure he was hacking. I will take a look at that game now.
	nirvAnA:	Your analysis was fantastic. Need more of those :)
	Dox:	these smileys aren't happy enough, EAT HAPPY FACEEEEEE

[TargA]

Originally Posted by MrToast

I watched through this replay 5 times 3 times from Chobos point of view and see nothing wrong. Am I wrong on any of the above analysis?

Edit: Its obvious that Rossi and targa didn't take the proper time and look through each players POV before making such heavy accusations

i watched evey game twice, from his pov, unpausing everytime he made a move to see what mafia was up to.

And since your from perth I assume your his friend, so please stop accusing us for a witch hunt when we spent a lot of time discussing and doing work.

Quick Comments

	iM SundeR:	maybe mrtoast is the elusive 11/10 facebook gf!?!?!?!?
	Snx.FigJig:	*witty comment for sunder*

[MrToast]

Originally Posted by TargA

i watched evey game twice, from his pov, unpausing everytime he made a move to see what mafia was up to.

And since your from perth I assume your his friend, so please stop accusing us for a witch hunt when we spent a lot of time discussing and doing work.

I would enjoy to have you refute any of the points I made in the above analysis.

[TargA]

Originally Posted by MrToast

I would enjoy to have you refute any of the points I made in the above analysis.

rofl, your points are as valid as nrivanas.

Quick Comments

	ROOT`iaguz:	Cool down mate.
	Zealo:	chobo should have to explain himself, not you!

[iM MaFia]

I'd really like to see more ppl especially the players who understand the game at a higher level ppl like PiG tgun etc just a few to name for example watch the replay on OHANA Enderr vs Chobo and stop at all those time frame points in my analysis and explain to me why he would do such things without a maphack

Because no one has really watched the replay thoroughly and commented on it except iaguz and I dont want to be snooping through more replays, (it takes a hell lot of effort) until I get some responses. I honestly believe there is enough evidence in this one replay let alone all the others

Quick Comments

mGGDaedalus:

yes, more high level analysis plz. too much clutter in this thread

[MrToast]

Originally Posted by TargA

rofl, your points are as valid as nrivanas.

If they are so wrong and easy to disprove why won't you take 5 minutes of your time to tell me why I am wrong.

[TargA]

Originally Posted by MrToast

If they are so wrong and easy to disprove why won't you take 5 minutes of your time to tell me why I am wrong.

Ive already proven you wrong with my first analysis.

[nirvAnA]

As most people have said the evidence isn't conclusive. What this thread needs is more analysis so why not focus the efforts on that? If he is indeed hacking he will be caught like evets was and the case is closed.

chobo vs inori 25 min game
http://www.sc2sea.com/replays.php?do...load=1&blind=1

chobo vs nestea 23 min game
http://drop.sc/185841

chobo vs colganzi 27 min game
http://drop.sc/150202

chobo vs moonglade 15 min game
http://drop.sc/176751

chobo vs ROOTfitzy 33 min game
http://drop.sc/185830

[SanG]

Originally Posted by nirvAnA

As most people have said the evidence isn't conclusive. What this thread needs is more analysis so why not focus the efforts on that? If he is indeed hacking he will be caught like evets was and the case is closed.

chobo vs inori 25 min game
http://www.sc2sea.com/replays.php?do...load=1&blind=1

chobo vs nestea 23 min game
http://drop.sc/185841

chobo vs colganzi 27 min game
http://drop.sc/150202

chobo vs moonglade 15 min game
http://drop.sc/176751

chobo vs ROOTfitzy 33 min game
http://drop.sc/185830

Pretty sure that nestea is a fake protoss nestea in NA

Quick Comments

Zealo:

does it matter if it's fake nestea or real nestea?

[Stallion]

Originally Posted by TargA

rofl, your points are as valid as nrivanas.

That's a bit harsh Nirvana has to make sure it is actually a map hacker before he bans someone. You have to give people the benefit of the doubt until there is no doubt that they did maphack and atm there seems to be some shifty stuff Chobo has done. But Nirvana has to be 100% sure before convicting him.

I mean personally I think he has from Mafia and Rossi's opinions alone as they both seem like very convinced that he has indeed hacked. Especially with some of the random pauses and flawless decision making as with the case of mafia having the lings ready and chobo pulling back.

Even with that said though abusing the Ref is never going to help you and in this case the Ref is Nirvana so maybe consider just letting it happen instead of the sly comments. If he is a maphacker have some faith that the admins will deal with it.

Quick Comments

nirvAnA:

exactly this

[CHoBo(kice)]

I uploaded the missing game against ender.

I read the post where you guys were missing it.

I simply just didnt select that map because I thought it was not part of masercup replays.

I dont have anything to hide

http://www.sc2sea.com/replays.php?do=viewreplay&id=1263

[iM MaFia]

Originally Posted by nirvAnA

As most people have said the evidence isn't conclusive. What this thread needs is more analysis so why not focus the efforts on that? If he is indeed hacking he will be caught like evets was and the case is closed.

chobo vs inori 25 min game
http://www.sc2sea.com/replays.php?do...load=1&blind=1

chobo vs nestea 23 min game
http://drop.sc/185841

chobo vs colganzi 27 min game
http://drop.sc/150202

chobo vs moonglade 15 min game
http://drop.sc/176751

chobo vs ROOTfitzy 33 min game
http://drop.sc/185830

sorry but these reps were uploaded by himself, like you said if he was really hacking would be be that quick to upload a replay pack of himself?

Quick Comments

nirvAnA:

Yes, he did the same with masters cup. Theres no replay requirement

[syfChadMann]

Originally Posted by AsGCHoBo

Wow I knew the guys from cR were hatin' coz I didn't join their team because of commitments... but this is just wow... makes me feel disgusted..

Mate, we aren't even involved - you were recommended to me (because you have a good ladder record and take games off top players) but after I hear that you were a bit sus (4 months ago) I backed out of any involvement with you for our team - I'm not hating.. I'm just glad I didn't walk into this land mine of hackusations. So please don't drag cR into this at all. Someone that simply says they don't play the game, don't go to LANs and don't want involvement in a team - then all of a sudden pop up and start beating players that play full time - it's surprising and even suss..

Regardless, I don't have the time to go through all the replays, so I won't weigh in on the debate, just want to dispell any myths that cR are targeting you for not joining our team, because the fact is - if you asked me two weeks ago to join - I would has said "no, mate"

anyway, good job to the guys getting the evidence for this.

[TargA]

I posted this in the TA chat, I guess I can post it here as well.

Right now there are 3 types of people defending chobo,

1. people from perth
2. nirvana
3. people that dislike me

What do they all have in common? They ____ at starcraft 2. ( fill in the blanks yo)

Quick Comments

	Spud:	haaha
	jayaiwhy:	no.
	Stallion:	cool down
	MrToast:	Just because you are better at Starcraft doesn't make it any more right to accuse someone of hacking with ZERO solid evidence.
	Strafe:	Never knew I was from Perth. See what I did here?
	ToRSpartaz:	Those people are "Good" are Sc sir

[CHoBo(kice)]

no no chadman... I did not want part of a team due to commitments.... so i kindly refused the offer.... which was from edge intially

Quick Comments

TAEdgE:

pretty sure we handled it respectfully then too

[CHoBo(kice)]

Originally Posted by iM Mafia

sorry but these reps were uploaded by himself, like you said if he was really hacking would be be that quick to upload a replay pack of himself?

uploaded by me or someone else... what difference does it make. it is games played

[ROOTPetraeus]

Originally Posted by TargA

I posted this in the TA chat, I guess I can post it here as well.

Right now there are 3 types of people defending chobo,

1. people from perth
2. nirvana
3. people that dislike me

What do they all have in common? They ____ at starcraft 2. ( fill in the blanks yo)

What the hell are you talking about? No one is defending anyone. And trying to make comparisons like that is ridiculous.
Thankfully, the majority of people posting here have valid points and arguments. Making posts like yours regardless of whether they are serious or not isn't helping the situation.

Quick Comments

	Strafe:
	nirvAnA:
	CHoBo(kice):	ty sir

[ROCCAT_Savior]

Originally Posted by AsGCHoBo

uploaded by me or someone else... what difference does it make. it is games played

You're unlikely to upload games where you were maphacking, unless you had too (ie. masters cup)

Quick Comments

	jayaiwhy:	doesn't that mean he is a gosu beating those players?
	CHoBo(kice):	i uploaded regardless, missed one but that was mistake uploaded it as soon as someone mentioned
	SmirkToT:	are you the guy who always 6pool?