[Nemo]

You're welcome. Glad it helps.

[Andross]

Hey everyone I just lost to a gold player terran that was quite terrible, I even had a way higher score, I want to know where I went wrong because it annoyed me a lot, thanks.

[Nemo]

Originally Posted by Andross

Hey everyone I just lost to a gold player terran that was quite terrible, I even had a way higher score, I want to know where I went wrong because it annoyed me a lot, thanks.

Andross = Starwolf

Opponent

Map = Ohana

Apth (or tgun) job

My laptop have been stolen. I won't be able to stream Replay analysis for next 15 days. I might do screenshot ones if I can manage the time.

[|Erasmus|]

Originally Posted by Andross

Hey everyone I just lost to a gold player terran that was quite terrible, I even had a way higher score, I want to know where I went wrong because it annoyed me a lot, thanks.

Shouldn't post replays of you BMing people and expect help.

But you lost because you were running a low econ aggressive style with no upgrades. You only had 54 drones on 4 base and made a hive, but didn't even use it for upgrades or any hive tech.

You kept taking incredibly cost inefficient trades attacking into fortified positions, and eventually you just died when you sacced an entire army to a few tanks and thors while he did a 4 medivac doom drop (medivacs + 3/3 marines rape your 1/1 rallying lings cause you had no army to stop him destroying your bane nest before the re-inforcing wave of units completed.

Instead of BMing a terran who is behind but has better ups, drone up to a reasonable number (70-80) and get your hive tech. 2 broodlords would have destroyed that fortified position you sacced 50 supply of ling-bane to not break.

Quick Comments

xGKingdelete:

"don't fight a battle you can't win"

[Andross]

Originally Posted by |Erasmus|

Shouldn't post replays of you BMing people and expect help.

But you lost because you were running a low econ aggressive style with no upgrades. You only had 54 drones on 4 base and made a hive, but didn't even use it for upgrades or any hive tech.

You kept taking incredibly cost inefficient trades attacking into fortified positions, and eventually you just died when you sacced an entire army to a few tanks and thors while he did a 4 medivac doom drop (medivacs + 3/3 marines rape your 1/1 rallying lings cause you had no army to stop him destroying your bane nest before the re-inforcing wave of units completed.

Instead of BMing a terran who is behind but has better ups, drone up to a reasonable number (70-80) and get your hive tech. 2 broodlords would have destroyed that fortified position you sacced 50 supply of ling-bane to not break.

Thanks a lot, yeah I thought it was that to be honest, what are the terran timings I should know about in terms of pushes or all ins? I know all the protoss ones but not the terrans.

[faithHunter]

Replay Link: http://www.sc2sea.com/replays.php?do=viewreplay&id=1210

Matchup: vs
League:
Map: Ohana LE

Game summary:

I honestly had no idea of what I did wrong at this game. I opened up with 1rax FE, he opened up with 1gate FE. Since I scouted the Nexus, I just went by and took a 3rd quickly after getting 2 gas geysers with 2 workers in it each (that was intentional, so that I can have enough gas to tech up and still have enough minerals to take my third.)

Then the game transitioned into a macro game. I denied his third base with my whole army, then he counter attacked with chargelots and archons to my natural. Thankfully I was able to hold that due to him/her engaging in a choke.

After that, I built like 12 raxes and kept on denying expansions and macroing up my army quickly.

I think the tipping point was when I dropped 5 medivacs worth of units to his base, trying to kill off some buildings, while trying to deny his third with my leftover units, then he relocated his army and killed my army at his main.

Then he proceeded to attack to my base while I desperately try to reinforce my army with like 20 raxes (literally).

I ran out of resources later on and then ragequitted.

Thanks for the help in advance

[mGGAequitas]

faithHunter,
I think the biggest reasons you lost happen after the 22 minute mark.
First of all you had 95 workers which is too much for any race, and way too much for terran. As a terran in the late game you should build a bunch of orbitals and then sacrifice half your workers so you can have a much larger army with the same econ (mules op), notice how most of your bases are oversaturated, once you become oversaturated and there are no more expansions to transfer to, workers just become a waste of supply.
the next problem was your engagements, you keep throwing away units for practically no damage.
like when you manage to emp most of his army but don't attack untill he has regened almost all of it back. You also don't kite the zealots and just sit there taking a lot of unnecessary damage. Your upgrades could have been better too, you were 1-1 to his 3-1-2..
After that engagement you keep fighting his army with a small force (and no ghosts for emps) and you end up constantly losing your units for nothing practically, you should constantly retreat untill you have a large enough army to crush him, also bringing some workers with your army for dps/take extra hits/free up supply would have been good too.

Summary
- Don't get too many workers
- Late game sacrifice some workers for larger army
- Don't try and defend an attack with small forces - retreat and mass up until you have enough to crush his attack
- You need to make sure you emp the hts/archons/zealots
- Work on better upgrades

Quick Comments

	Nemo:	Nice !
	xGKingdelete:

[Cute]

http://drop.sc/189498
Plat TvP

Hi again guys, got a lot of good feedback last time I posted here, and would truly appreciate any more advice or flaws that people could point out.

I've gotten to the point in TvP where I'm banging a head against a wall. I keep doing the same thing, and it only seems to work if they mess up (get caught reaaaaally out of position early game)

My general plan is to go for a 10 min stim bio + 2 medivac push into expand. I've tried variations of this involving three and five barracks, both to similar results.

In this game in particular, I felt that I played pretty well. I knew what he was doing, thought my macro was reasonable, dropped a lot. I know that my ghosts were a bit late and got off barely any emps, is that enough to completely lose a game?

[mGGAequitas]

Originally Posted by SQL.Cute

http://drop.sc/189498

ok so i'm not terran so most of what follows may be completely wrong but i'll try my best

your first push with the medivacs went really really well he lost 3k whereas you only lost 1.5k so you are way ahead
but at this point you are macroeing quite badly - floating 800 minerals and no gas, you have no gas because you took 1 scv off mining gas from your main to build a depot then sent him to minerals instead of back to gas, also at your natural you only have 1 in each refinary. So make sure that your gas saturation is right especially when you should be wondering why you have no gas.

it's good that you build a third after your push because you are quite safe because of the massive damage you did, however you built it and then pretty much forgot about it, from completing to starting to turn it into an orbital there is a 1 minute gap. Also the fact that you built it all the way in your main means you lose a lot of income from the travel time of the base: from orbital completion to landing at the third there is a 1.25 minute interval.

again i'll mention that your scv production could be improved a little bit.

With your drops make sure you target more important stuff, your first drop you half kill a pylon, your next double drop you target the nexus which isn't that much of a loss for protoss especially considering how much you lost, target probes ideally or tech structures like the cyber core, forges, twilight, robo/bay, archives etc.
also during your drop you just throw away a bunch of units at the front.

At 18:40 you catch the protoss completely out of position yet you decide to engage his much superior army when instead you could have ran towards his natural or main and then killed whatever you wanted, i almost gurantee that you could have destroyed his robo, robo bay, twilight and archives before your army was killed, This would have pretty much won you the game.

you float over 2k minerals at one point gotta keep that money low
random medivac full of units doing nothing most of the game
sniping the nexus for the 2nd time is completely pointless since he is barely even mining from it

Again your gas saturation at your third was off, you also never took your gas at your 4th.

With that battle at the end you get completely decimated for several reasons, 1. your vikings practically do nothing against the collossi untill you've lost everything already. 2. you don't get ANY emp's off you have a bunch of ghosts but only one actually at the front of your army (and he had no energy). 3. You have 4 medivacs full of units not even participating in that attack

That's about all I have to say hope it helps a bit, any questions just ask
Hope I didn't come off too mean

Quick Comments

	Nemo:	Excellent !
	Cute:	Thanks so much, very helpful

[asdfSchnitzel]

Just wondering what i did wrong in this game (SPOILER apart from the two obvious vortexes SPOILER), and how i could improve on this.

[mGGAequitas]

Originally Posted by QEDSchnitzel

ust wondering what i did wrong in this game

you lost because you had less income the entire game (including the time where he has 18 idle probes)
this was especially important after the big battle where you are both trying to remax and he has 50 probes to your 29, three times your income. so he maxes out a lot sooner than you (with better upgrades too) and then he just starts stockpiling money to allow him to remax while you are still at 180 supply. Also make sure you are still making units while in the middle of battles.
that last engagement you have about about even armies favouring him slightly due to upgrades (make sure you get shields a lot sooner especially with all those archons). You lose because he has much better positioning and unit composition, because archons are short ranged you can't just have them all balled up and then 1a your army because half your archons will die before even firing a shot, you need to try and get a much better concave so your archons can start firing asap without spazzing out behind the archons in front, a good number of zealots would also be nice, zealots have SOOOOOOooooo much dps and most of the time while charging they mitigate the splash from cols.
but even with the a lot better composition and position I think you would have still lost because of your macro as I said before, he has 19 probes long distance mining and 10 idle workers and still more income than you, make sure that you have a decent number of probes and if he kills a nexus remake it immediatly. Also try and keep your expansions alive, i'd suggest taking the closer 4th (at the top in the middle) and you can have your army outside your third and nat in a nice concave, if he attacks your 4th you can react quickly. obviously having some scouting pylons for earlier warning would help, the best way of course is to take map control which your opponent does really well.

sorry for my jumbled thoughts, I just write things as i'm watching so theres no real structure or flow

summary:
MOAR PROBES!



hope i help

Quick Comments

xGKingdelete:

[xGKingdelete]

Originally Posted by QEDSchnitzel

Just wondering what i did wrong in this game (SPOILER apart from the two obvious vortexes SPOILER), and how i could improve on this.

okay, i stopped watching at about 30 mins. For the first engagement of the game (at 24 mins), if you know he has a concave set up, don't attack into it. Go around and attack from a different angle if you really really want to attack him. The best way is to just set up your own concave, and harass his base, forcing his army to retreat, and then you get complete map control.

Anyway, if you are going to expand in PvP, chronoboost probes. Especially if you know he also expanded. He was doing a better job of making probes in the early game, and ended up with around 10 probes more than you all the way up to the first engagement. If you don't have at the minimum 16 probes on each mineral line, make more probes.

Your understanding of lategame PvP is good, now you have to focus on the easy things - making probes.

Quick Comments

	mGGAequitas:
	asdfSchnitzel:	Thanks for that! :D

[TheGentleman]

Hey,

Here's the replay: http://drop.sc/193192, I'm the platinum Protoss.

I lose this match and I was after some advice about how I could have gone better. I saw him doing MMM so I figured chargelot archon into HT was a good strategy but as the game goes on I find myself overwhelmed by his force even though in the beginning I have some very successful engagements. It's quite possible I just don't know the right way to respond to this particular match.

Thanks in advance

[xGKingdelete]

Originally Posted by TheGentleman

Hey,

Here's the replay: http://drop.sc/193192, I'm the platinum Protoss.

I lose this match and I was after some advice about how I could have gone better. I saw him doing MMM so I figured chargelot archon into HT was a good strategy but as the game goes on I find myself overwhelmed by his force even though in the beginning I have some very successful engagements. It's quite possible I just don't know the right way to respond to this particular match.

Thanks in advance

Okay, things look pretty even at first, but there are the subtle things. If you plan to take a third base, keep making probes until you are oversaturated a bit, so you can transfer immediately and have 3 saturated bases. Your opponent did this and you did not, so he was up around 10 scvs for a long time in the midgame.


Your aim on 3 base is to get one AOE tech (HT or colossus), and then transition into the other, so you have both at the same time. If you stay on ht tech only, then pure MMM with ghost support will tear through everything. Chargelots are only good if you outnumber them and/or have superior upgrades, and they don't have medivacs. Otherwise chargelots are pretty useless, and are only there to absorb damage while your HT and colossus kill everything.

So keep that in mind. You want to transition.

However, you couldn't do that in this game because you were low on gas. If you look at 15 mins into the game, it appears that you cleaned up your army, but in reality he traded way more efficiently than you (check the units lost tab). You lost a couple of archons, all of your ht and sentries, leaving you with zealots only. Then you have to rebuild the ht, and suddenly that's a lot of gas that you can't use to transition into colossus.
The fact that the zealots straight up died to MMM when you attacked his third is something you should keep in mind when considering the strengths of the protoss army. They killed pretty much nothing and died in a matter of seconds. Chargelots alone aren't good, you want to have HT and collosus.

Also, I noticed you built 5 sentries as well. Once they get a decent number of medivacs, don't make any more than 2 sentries (for guardian shield ONLY). Your sentries should never get close enough to pull off decent forcefields, and most of the time you end up blocking your own zealots, while they kite away. It's just better to have the gas spent for high templar instead.

From here, there was pretty much no way to win. His economy and army are stronger than yours, and you didn't have both AOE tech.

Main point: If you plan to play a macro game, don't let your gas units die, and get both AOE tech.

Quick Comments

	TheGentleman:	ty :) I will have another look at the replay and try and apply your advice to future matches.
	mGGAequitas:

[Dumbledore]

http://drop.sc/194272

He basically killed me with a ton of hellions :S

Any tips on how to deal with this? T.T

[xGKingdelete]

Originally Posted by Dumbledore

http://drop.sc/194272

He basically killed me with a ton of hellions :S

Any tips on how to deal with this? T.T

Firstly, it was a bit risky to expand so early when he did a gas opening. If he did a 2rax opening, he could have killed your nexus and contained you for a minute or two while he took his own expansion.

With your first few units, you should go his base and just poke a bit to see what he's doing. If you see a marauder and a reactored barracks, you know he's doing a 2rax or 3rax. If you see a bunker, you know he's probably doing some kind of 1-1-1. If you did it in this game, you would have noticed there were no marines, and a reactored factory. Your opponent would either be forced to defend with hellions (not going to work vs 2 stalkers and a zealot), or to run to your base. He would most likely do the latter, but by then you would have had enough time to prepare a response (maybe temporarily wall off ramp with 3 pylons, since you went one gate straight into robo).

When there are hellions in your base, you don't want to box all probes and run in the same direction. This lines 'em up and just makes it easier to lose probes (he killed 12 with 4 hellions).

On a side note, going one gate nexus robo is incredibly risky against any type of play, and you should only do it if you know exactly what your opponent is going to do. Even if they gasless expand, a 4 or 5 rax follow up would be impossible to defend with the extra gateways being delayed.

As for his hellion drop followup, that was just a bit unfortunate. To be honest, I probably wouldn't have expected that either. I guess you could have seen that he was transitioning into MMM, and the reactored starport means you have to prepare for drops, regardless of if they're marines or hellions. But it's pretty hard to split your army when you don't really have one, since he did so much damage.

So I think it came down to the initial loss of 12 probes. Be more active with your initial gateway units. You don't want to do damage with them, you just want to find out what he's doing. If there isnt a CC at their natural, it's unlikely that there is a CC at all, and you have to prepare for some one base terran aggression.

(they could have built it in the main, but this is uncommon nowadays since terran has figured out that it's safe to build it on the low ground)

P.S. If you see with your observer scout that they're still building hellions, you have to have some kind of sim city at all of your expansions, and maybe a few cannons as well if you can afford them. But that didn't happen in this game as your opponent transitioned into standard play.

Quick Comments

Nemo:

[ToRRedemption]

Entombed Valley (10).SC2Replay

So basically I'm a platinum terran that played a really macro game, but I want to get some help in analysing the game.

1. I over committed with first 2 attacks
2. My macro was falling
3. My angle of engagements weren't very good.
4. didnt make enough ghosts at the start
5. over made ghosts
6. more drops
7. didnt scout stargate tech

Please help i

[Nemo]

Originally Posted by demiseRedemption

Attachment 544

So basically I'm a platinum terran that played a really macro game, but I want to get some help in analysing the game.

1. I over committed with first 2 attacks
2. My macro was falling
3. My angle of engagements weren't very good.
4. didnt make enough ghosts at the start
5. over made ghosts
6. more drops
7. didnt scout stargate tech

Please help i

Replay analysis Demise Redemption vs Moony
http://fr.twitch.tv/nemoulysses/b/320988211

Summary

1. I over committed with first 2 attacks :
Not really. The first one one excellent. You haven't won the game on this because you didn't produced enough permanently from your 6 rax and you bad rallied them. It should have been at the bottom of his nat ramp to reinforce your attacking troops.
The second one was made inefficient because :

• You should have made fact and starport asap after your first push to have medivacs and them have at least 2 or 4 for your second push + drop
• You attacked 20 seconds before having steam. You last marine died at the same time it finishes. That's a "counter-timing" attack.

2. My macro was falling
Not so much. It was not that bad. Points before were more important.

3. My angle of engagements weren't very good.
4. didnt make enough ghosts at the start
5. over made ghosts
6. more drops
You were behind and your tech too. 200 > 200 army head on if there are Colossi and storms unless you have far better Viking and ghost management (and same number) than your opponent management of storms. That's usually not the case at same level. So you have to force opponent to split his army by having always 2 drops on the fly. Late game Terran = Permanent harass Terran

7. didnt scout stargate tech
You had lost at this point already IMO. If he could do those Carriers he could have done anything.

Hope it helps.

Quick Comments

ToRRedemption:

thanks! big help loved the video!

[ToRRedemption]

WOW, that helps heaps going to save it in my sc2 notes Really appreciate it.

[xGKingdelete]

Originally Posted by demiseRedemption

Attachment 544

So basically I'm a platinum terran that played a really macro game, but I want to get some help in analysing the game.

Please help i

Just to add onto what Nemo said,

there are some simple things you need to work on. Macro (floating 1k after the first attack, but you do a good job of spending it quickly). I want to look at your opening though. CC first into 3rax, into 5-6 rax. If you watch the replay slowly and look at your buildings, you'll notice that your CCs are idle for a while, and so are your 3 barracks (because you spent 300 minerals building the extra 2 barracks). Because of this, your opponent surges ahead on the worker count 32 probes to 18 SCVs. Any economic edge you were hoping to gain from going CC first is immediately offset by the fact that you aren't using the CC.

Personally, I think your opening is indecisive. On one hand you want to have economy from the CC first, but at the same time you want to be really aggressive with 6 rax.

I recommend pulling scvs if you're going to get 6 rax, and going semi all-in, because at the timing you hit in this game (8:30), protoss normally has warp gate finished, and a couple of sentries can forcefield you out, or stalkers can kite your unupgraded marines.

or, you could change it to 3-4 rax, and hit an earlier timing with slightly less marines. Not getting those extra rax means you can constantly produce marines from the barracks/CCs that you already have, so this is more efficient as well. If you push out once you have 10-15 marines from those rax, you should be able to get to his base before or just as warp gate finishes, and he will be forced to pull probes. 10 marines when he has 0 units is stronger than 20 marines when he has 8 units.

The main reason going 6rax without gas is bad is because your tech is delayed for a very long time. That's why you have to do significant damage, and to do significant damage you have to pull some scvs to tank stalker fire. In this game your tech started out behind.

Here is how you should think of TvP engagements:
Unupgraded bio: Good when protoss doesn't have warp gate done, or before his second/third warp in of units. Terrible once protoss starts making protoss things.
Upgraded bio with medivacs(stim combat shields concussive shells +1 infantry): almost unstoppable when protoss doesn't have collosus or high templar or good upgrades. Terrible when protoss gets collosus and/or high templar
Upgraded bio with medivacs and ghosts/vikings vs protoss doomball: All depends on positioning and micro

So let's look at your first two attacks with the information above in mind.
The first one hit just as his warp gate tech finished, which is good, and you did a lot of damage with that. However, if he went 1gate expand instead of nexus first, your attack would have been too late, so you should aim to hit a timing with less marines but earlier.
The second one hits just before stim and concussive shells finish, and just after your opponent gets 1/1 upgrades. Your marines were doing 2 damage to his zealots, and he had a bigger army than yours. No way you could have won that.

And this goes back to your opening. You need to either do a lot of damage with 6rax, or you need to find a way to transition into getting tech earlier. If protoss gets ahead on upgrades, it's very hard for terran, no matter how much you kite. If protoss gets ahead on tech, it's very hard for terran to even kite in the first place. Protoss is strong against terran when ahead in tech and upgrades, so you can't afford to fall behind.


Okay, sorry about that. I'm kind of talking everywhere and repeating myself. Just think about your opening more.


In the endgame, consider sacrificing SCVs once you're maxed out. You have mules anyway, and having extra 20 army supply or so makes a huge difference, since protoss can't sacrifice probes (no mules). Also, you don't need that many marines. They die straight away to storm and collosus. Marauders survive longer, and prevent protoss from blinking under your vikings. So you want marauder ghost viking medivac, and some marines don't hurt if you don't have much gas.

Quick Comments

	Nemo:	Wow ! Great advice for every Terran
	ToRRedemption:	thanks!