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**syfChadMann** · Thu, 7th-Jun-2012, 9:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by System

Wait, **** this shit. Impromtu Podcast show tomorrow, we go hard out no ******* fluff and call this guy on the show and get the truth!

I can see the headline now:

EXCLUSIVE LIVE WITH SYSTEM - THE CHEAT REVEALD - System talks with Papa Smurf and the 11/10 smurfettes

Quick Comments

VoxMSI.Rogue:

**Dox** · Thu, 7th-Jun-2012, 9:24 PM

Quick Comments

	iMSystem:	You won't get fooled again!
	inFeZa:	******* lol
	VoxMSI.Rogue:
	TCPLemminks:
	[TA]LoSt:	You never cease to me amaze me, good sir
	TASlowHands:	ahahahahahahaaa
	syfChadMann:
	Shieldz:	ROFL
	TABiggun:	LOL THIS WINS THE THREAD
	TAminimat:
	Pox:
	deL:	hahahahahahaha
	NvRossi:	LOVE IT
	neKo:
	TABottles:	ahahahahaaa
	TAriiChard:
	Synizta:

**inFeZa** · Thu, 7th-Jun-2012, 9:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BaKaiNu

However, this does not 100% prove that he is a smurf but I am highly leaning that way.

You Tube

**VoxMSI.Rogue** · Thu, 7th-Jun-2012, 9:25 PM

God damn it you people are far too ******* hilarious.

AxSGRiM · Thu, 7th-Jun-2012, 9:30 PM

It's so sad to see that AsG members still try to defend this bullshit cheater... ur awesome Rossi and everyone else who put effort to try and find out the secret behind this scumbag!

Quick Comments

	AsGNabi:	That's not nice, at all. You type of people are thriving on this.
	ToRSpookToR:	******* ironic

NvRossi · Thu, 7th-Jun-2012, 9:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jayaiwhy

Possibility of Smurfing

Thirdly, not many people know this, but someone PMed me about him "paying people to level up his accounts" and that the real chobo was only a diamond skill level player. I thought this was worth an investigation, so unknown to him, i tested this out last night, where I suddenly asked Chobo on skype to get on battle.net and instantly join a channel in bnet. After being brief about the instant joining of channels he did this in 5 seconds. This was to ensure the same chobo i was talking to on skype was the same one i was going to play. I then played a game with him with Rossi watching. I also asked him a personal question in that game which he answered fine. He was clearly top gm level, with the same exact hotkeys. What is the point of all this? This largely eliminates the smurfing possibility which i suspected from someone informing me + the fact he was really quiet in his ladder games whenever I played him (like a different person). This also showed he was being co-operative and wants to clear his name, which brings me to my final point where he provides more evidence.

-Nirvana

Hopefully nirvana doesnt mind me linking this.... Note the excuses and the fact that he fails the test initially...

http://drop.sc/193175 (responses to nirvanas question is delayed and its as if he isnt even sure... Also Nirvana asks for a macro game and its as if Chobo doesnt know what that is? goes for a 2 racks rush with 3 scvs....)

Hardly Conclusive evidence

+ [Skype chat between nirvana and Chobo] +

People are also forgetting the 2 other completely different hotkey setups i mean really....

Shieldz · Thu, 7th-Jun-2012, 9:31 PM

amazing rossi and mafia appreciate the work u guys did along with others.

TABiggun · Thu, 7th-Jun-2012, 9:35 PM

Seo does many weird control group changes which must be due to his playing of brood war. There would be no reason to copy these control groups in starcraft 2.

There is no way you can just 'learn' such the specific setup that seo has and execute it exactly like him. There would be no point.
Also, seo has a very broodwar esque setup as I mentioned before, there would be no reason for chobo to have it the same as seo, the koreans just do it because they have played 1000s of games with that setup so there's no reason to change.

Also, for conclusive proof, you can see the 'tapping' of seo in the charts and its the exact same as 'chobo'. The way a player spams is like a fingerprint and there is no way you can learn to do it the same as anyone else.

Just as a side note, it's very possible that chobo was watching the stream of 'himself' playing in the Masters Cup LOL!

Quick Comments

	Shieldz:	LOL nice last sentence
	TACeeSerps:	Inception!! BWOAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
	deL:	This was the key point for me!
	inFeZa:	rofl. you should highlight that last sentence
	NvJazBas:	LOL

NvJazBas · Thu, 7th-Jun-2012, 9:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TABiggun

Seo does many weird control group changes which must be due to his playing of brood war. There would be no reason to copy these control groups in starcraft 2.

There is no way you can just 'learn' such the specific setup that seo has and execute it exactly like him. There would be no point.
Also, seo has a very broodwar esque setup as I mentioned before, there would be no reason for chobo to have it the same as seo, the koreans just do it because they have played 1000s of games with that setup so there's no reason to change.

Also, for conclusive proof, you can see the 'tapping' of seo in the charts and its the exact same as 'chobo'. The way a player spams is like a fingerprint and there is no way you can learn to do it the same as anyone else.

Just as a side note, it's very possible that chobo was watching the stream of 'himself' playing in the Masters Cup LOL!

Very true.

And also adding on to that, you would find NO coaches saying to u, "COPY MY HOTKEY SET UP".

Quick Comments

	TAEdgE:	i think pig advises people too try his out but his are very basic
	Kepler:	PiG does suggest his hotkey setup, but he doesn't mandate it.
	TABiggun:	Pig's setup is good for any zerg and its the standard, seo's setup is weird and pointless but he uses it coz of bw
	deL:	^ good* coaches (kidding love you pig)
	RicocheT:	Could be possible if you're being coached by like...MKP or something and you want dem hotkeyz
	nGenLight:	Mate, i used to tell my students, copy my hotkeys, its the best, if u dont ur shit.

deL · Thu, 7th-Jun-2012, 9:36 PM

Before all of this I was skeptical, I thought at worst he was a hacker who used prod tab hack and had no idea what he was doing, just getting lucky and at best was good but inconsistent due to odd strategies.

However in light of this post I am slowly being swayed. The use of 0 as a hotkey for the orbital is particularly damning for me. It's really a redundant leftover from BW days and players who never played BW competitively should never really use it. Changing your hotkeys TO this setup is very odd as it offers no advantage and is so hard to get accustomed to.

What I would have liked from CHoBo is to get everything out right from the start and construct a proper response that details EVERYTHING instead of waiting for an accusation before explaining it. He could have mentioned that he learned hotkeys from this player and if he said that in an appropriate response post before he was accused of this then this evidence may not be incriminating, but the fact he only addresses things after the fact is really hurting his chances of proving himself innocent. Again if he had explained somehow in a previous post the reasoning for his hotkeys and whatnot this could be mitigated somewhat but as it stands accusations against CHoBo have gone from "coincidental" before this evening, to "suspect".

Quick Comments

	mGGAequitas:	ppl rebind control group 0 to something easier like w
	JoFritzMD:	This is my exact thoughts when I saw the hotkey. He either played alot of BW or a BW smurf is using his account.

Kepler · Thu, 7th-Jun-2012, 9:38 PM

This is seriously concerning. I defended Kice over hacking allegations as they seemed pretty ridiculous, which was shown.

This new evidence is absolutely different, and it concerns me that Kice may have been lying to us (people we know in real life) as well. I've watched Kice play on his stream while he was doing commentary, whether it was 'gm level' is not my field of expertise, but he seemed to be competing at a Masters level.

Conversely we've had Nirvana test out this smurfing possibility. He concluded it was unlikely.

But as it stands I'm just not sure. It's just a video game, but this resulted in money being taken away from someone else. At worst this is an elaborate hoax set up by Kice for some inane reason, or it's simply a matter of coincidence because he's coached by this other guy (which seems highly unlikely based on the very Brood War esque hotkeys).

As much as I hate to do this I should note that on his Facebook he liked a page called "Starcraft 2 Services", as shown here. https://www.facebook.com/StarCraft2Services

Whether he's an actual member of the group, or he's contracted their services is not up for me to come to a conclusion for. I've tried to be impartial while giving him the benefit of the doubt. Whilst the hacking allegations seem less likely, this has much more evidence behind it.

Quote:

It's so sad to see that AsG members still try to defend this bullshit cheater... ur awesome Rossi and everyone else who put effort to try and find out the secret behind this scumbag!

We defend him against allegations that he was a hacker, which were shown to be pretty false. Rossi's allegations that it's not actually Kice playing are a totally unrelated to him being a hacker or not. This has some of us at a loss for words on how to react, would you defend someone from such voracious attacks like harassment by some TA members and spam bots based on evidence that turned out to be incorrect?

Quick Comments

	TAEdgE:	great post
	Nadir:	I'm in the same boat bud.
	FvRphoneheha:	Yes, people saying they can't understand anyone understanding Chobo have to see it from the other side
	nirvAnA:
	TAriiChard:
	nGenLight:	I empathize ur sitaution, friend
	NvRossi:	Respect

**nGenLight** · Thu, 7th-Jun-2012, 9:39 PM

I know people are going to be angry and frustrated at people still defending Chobo since the evidence right now is pretty ridiculously condemning. However, I must ensure everyone, we are all on the same page that - JUSTICE, is what we want. Whereas oneside are convinced (I should hope so)by the evidence provided by some amazing and dirty police work here, the other side chooses to see things from another/different perspective to ensure that nothing is missed and we do not by that little chance, lynch an innocent man <- This is perhaps the greatest fear, hence why some people are still pushing for thoroughness. Please be understanding and try to dispell these concerns through logical, strong and pinpoint arguments instead of personal attacks targeted at said person's credibility/skill level/community status. There is absolutely nothing wrong with hearing different perspectives, allowing us to understand and investigate the situation more thoroughly than just following the strong choice words of a few (who I obviously agree with). Think and investigate for yourself, it should be easy, the hardworks already been done by some legends of this community.

We are all of the same jury. However that said, if you can't see how shady this Chobo character is by now - I probably won't want you on my jury team.

I vote him lynched, the evidence are all pointing towards him using third party programs (portrait farming, potentially hacks), and shifty activities such as getting others to play on his account, tournament or not.

I'm not entirely convinced that he hacks, because I haven't spent that much time looking at them replays myself. But having others play on his account, GTFO son.

Quick Comments

	mGGDaedalus:
	TAEdgE:
	Uglymutt:	Certainly shady, thoroughness is the key
	FvRphoneheha:	Definitely don't want to see an innocent man lynched.
	iM MaFia:	Very good post
	nirvAnA:	really liked the first paragraph
	Asrathiel:
	ToRSpartaz:	Agreed with Light here.

Peleus · Thu, 7th-Jun-2012, 9:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SundeR

Some people have to realise that players like Mafia and Rossi are putting their own reputations on the line in investigating this so much. It's very confusing to see so many people automatically defending some ridiculous, egotistical chump who has had barely any interaction with this community instead of the people who have been around in this scene for a very, very long time.

What the hell guys?

I disagree with saying why the hell are people disagreeing with Mafia or Rossi, in fact I urge everyone to make up their own mind based of what they are saying, rather than who is saying it.

After all that though, this evidence is pretty damning.

Quick Comments

iM SundeR:

of course - but you could say that mafia and rossi have much more to lose than chobo, its a factor

NvPinder · Thu, 7th-Jun-2012, 9:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TABiggun

Just as a side note, it's very possible that chobo was watching the stream of 'himself' playing in the Masters Cup LOL!

HAHAHAHA I never considered this! LOL.

EDIT; for clarity, he was seen on the stream list watching his games against rossi, when we pointed it out, it was apparently his ever elusive 'girlfriend' watching him play... Turns out his girlfriend is himself, another case closed I guess ;o

Quick Comments

	syfMiley:	My girlfriend is myself too
	Kepler:	Just to clarify, he does actually have a girlfriend.
	Peleus:	It could be his GF, his hand was using the keyboard...
	AsGNabi:	Pretty sure I remember what I did Sunday night.. Idiot.

BAD.BiGbiRd · Thu, 7th-Jun-2012, 9:48 PM

I think a lot of people are missing the point here. He may very well be a SEA GM level so if you just grab him out of the blue he can handle himself no problems. There is an extremely large difference between that and changing your hotkeys completely and demolishing SEA's best no sweat.

I stayed out of the hacking war because i was not completely convinced and didn't have enough time to analyse everything myself. I am however completely sure that he has had someone else smurphing on his account, the evidence is just far too good. You CANNOT change your hotkey set-up or game mannerisms game to game. It just doesn't happen

NvJazBas · Thu, 7th-Jun-2012, 9:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xGKingJazBas

i think pig advises people too try his out but his are very basic

Ok sorry I'm wrong on this I guess cause Pig is a sick coach

Quick Comments

PiG:

I use beginner hotkeys cos i never play bw :P

AxSGRiM · Thu, 7th-Jun-2012, 9:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kepler

This is seriously concerning. I defended Kice over hacking allegations as they seemed pretty ridiculous, which was shown.

This new evidence is absolutely different, and it concerns me that Kice may have been lying to us (people we know in real life) as well. I've watched Kice play on his stream while he was doing commentary, whether it was 'gm level' is not my field of expertise, but he seemed to be competing at a Masters level.

Conversely we've had Nirvana test out this smurfing possibility. He concluded it was unlikely.

But as it stands I'm just not sure. It's just a video game, but this resulted in money being taken away from someone else. At worst this is an elaborate hoax set up by Kice for some inane reason, or it's simply a matter of coincidence because he's coached by this other guy (which seems highly unlikely based on the very Brood War esque hotkeys).

As much as I hate to do this I should note that on his Facebook he liked a page called "Starcraft 2 Services", as shown here. https://www.facebook.com/StarCraft2Services

Whether he's an actual member of the group, or he's contracted their services is not up for me to come to a conclusion for. I've tried to be impartial while giving him the benefit of the doubt. Whilst the hacking allegations seem less likely, this has much more evidence behind it.

We defend him against allegations that he was a hacker, which were shown to be pretty false. Rossi's allegations that it's not actually Kice playing are a totally unrelated to him being a hacker or not. This has some of us at a loss for words on how to react, would you defend someone from such voracious attacks like harassment by some TA members and spam bots based on evidence that turned out to be incorrect?

By saying that he is a cheater, I am not implying he has been using hacks, rather he has been breaking ToS by getting others to play on his acc, portrait farming etc. I feel that AsG defending ChoBo previously is a perfectly fine act, however, when I saw that Sedz continued to defend him in the 1st page I find it absolutely ridiculous how he could still defend ChoBo when such damning evidence has been put before us.

Once again, I applaud you for supporting a clan member (when FaDe defended evetS) that's an aspect a good clan/team needs to have but when such evidence is presented I find it ridiculous that you can continue defending Kice.

PS. ChoBo has played multiple Ace games for Last Season's SEACL T3 and I feel that it is unfair to the other teams who have played vs AsG in the last season. However, I'm sure other AsG players + Dox played a 100% legitimate game.. just wondering

Quick Comments

VB_Rhuubarb:

I think it's ironic that you are talking about playing on other's accounts.

MrToast · Thu, 7th-Jun-2012, 9:51 PM

I think people should at LEAST wait for a retort from Chobo before people start claiming this to be 'concrete proof. Especially with the amount of times Rossi has come with some 'infallible truth' only to have it blow up in his face

Also didn't Nirvana mention in the thread this is meant to be in that he asked chobo to get on on skype and he got on right away and answered a personal question IN GAME while he was playing nirvana at a top GM level?

Quick Comments

	TAEdgE:	the thing regarding nirvana isn't as easy as that either - check rossis post on this page
	Cyanide:	something that could have been easily anticipated

Kepler · Thu, 7th-Jun-2012, 9:51 PM

On the contrary, Grim. I'm not going to defend Kice for this, he's on his own.

I trusted that his play was his own, and if this turns out to not be true then that trust was betrayed. The more problematic ramifications are that this will tarnish our clan's reputation, even if Kice is not a representative sample of all of us it will still paint us in a damaging light when people run into us on ladder.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrToast

I think people should at LEAST wait for a retort from Chobo before people start claiming this to be 'concrete proof. Especially with the amount of times Rossi has come with some 'infallible truth' only to have it blow up in his face

Also didn't Nirvana mention in the thread this is meant to be in that he asked chobo to get on on skype and he got on right away and answered a personal question IN GAME while he was playing nirvana at a top GM level?

This is true, but I'm confused as to how there isn't an element of truth to Rossi's claim in this case. The facebook link I provided is also more evidence.

Quick Comments

	Nadir:	I don't want AsG to denote shadiness
	TABiggun:	I don't think it's that bad for your clan, there was no way for you to know unless you did tons of analysis.

**nGenLight** · Thu, 7th-Jun-2012, 9:52 PM

Maybe this chobo guy is not real and is just Targa trolling us.

Maybe I am insane and the world isn't real.

Maybe... I am minimat...

Anyway, call me... maybe

Quick Comments

	BAD.BiGbiRd:
	NvJazBas:
	Kepler:	What is real? How do you define real?
	Dox:	you are a beautiful man
	FvRphoneheha:	Maybe Light's right!
	dippa:	**** - that - song
	VoxMSI.Rogue:
	inFeZa:	WHAT THA **** IS GOING ON IN MY HEAD