[ke_ivan]

GSL May 2011 finals, game 2, 3, 4 Nestea v Inca. Inca does 3 games of fast DTs against Nestea.
Game 2 against fast DT w/ transition into zealot/archon. DTs out at 6.54.
Game 3 against fast DT w/ sentry/blink stalker. DTs out at 6.54.
Game 4 against fast DT w/ blink stalker. DTs out at 9.06 w/ blink stalker (started earlier). First colossus out 17.36.

P build is based off 3-gate w/ robo.

He opens with ling speed, then roach warren, evo chamber, spores at both expansions. Blocks ramp with lings or queen. Spines on larger ramps.

If he goes stalker/immortal, more lings.
If he goes zealot/archon, more roaches.

After Inca sees his ling/roach, he goes colossus. Nestea switches to mutas by anticipating this.

I believe that ling/roach aggression is still the correct response to DTs after watching those games.

[Next_rim]

I believe that ling/roach aggression is still the correct response to DTs after watching those games.

I feel like ling->roach is a response to all protoss builds these days

[ke_ivan]

Originally Posted by Next_rim

I feel like ling->roach is a response to all protoss builds these days

Buahahhaha! Well said. That made me LOL.

Ling/roach reminds me of marine/marauder...

[dennistoo]

1 base lings/roach is also very strong. Even a 4 gate won't counter it due to the nerf on warp.

Zerg is a broken race. Sorry for QQ-ing.

[Meatex]

1 base will never beat a protoss 1 base unless the protoss is bad
A zerg doesn't have the production capability to hold off a 4 gate all in on 1 base i feel

Quick Comments

PiG:

This is absolutely true! If Toss control army right zerg SHOULDN'T win!

[PapaBigBelly]

DT rushes are hard to scout because the shrine is so small and can be hidden anywhere.

However looking at their army can tell if they are DT rushing. if there are no sentries, most likely some tech builld.
Another sign is double gas early game

however just sac an overlord and hope for the best, otherwise try to get an early lair?
i suffer from DTs alot because i prefer a late lair to get more expansions. I love getting my 3rd at 4 to 5 min

[dennistoo]

3 gate expand gets your early gas too anyway. So it's hard to tell.

[PiG]

Originally Posted by dennistoo

1 base lings/roach is also very strong. Even a 4 gate won't counter it due to the nerf on warp.

Zerg is a broken race. Sorry for QQ-ing.

Dennistoo you should be easily defeating 1 base ling-roach with a 4 gate. What you are likely losing to are 12 drone roach speedling all-ins. If this is the case your problem is failing to identify this with your scouting and just assuming that a 25 probe 4 gate should beat 1 base zerg. In actual fact you are at DOUBLE his workers, and so holding should be INCREDIBLY HARD.

See Sheth's article on zerg mineral saturation: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=219257

Basically Sheth says if you have X number of workers over your opponent at a certain time and they execute an attack properly, they should win. This rule applies for all races and so you need to learn to identify what your opponent is doing. If you scout a 12-14 pool and similarly timed gas you need to constantly check for a hatch going up, and seeing if the roach warren goes up as soon as the pool finishes. If a hatch goes up then your 4 gate should easily get up in time, if they get a roach warren immediately after a 12 pool finishes then you need a 2nd gateway and to start chronoing sentries, you also want to consider walling yourself in with a pylon as you probably already have +50% workers over your opponent and need to be extra safe to let your added income kick in.

As for head-on, no super early rush, 4gate vs 1 base ling roach. There are some simple things to take note of:

Roaches > zealots (can kite all day)
Zealots > zerglings (as long as the lings cant seperate and surround lone zealots)
Zerglins > stalkers (the stalkers do very little damage to lings)
Stalkers > roaches (bonus damage, added range, as long as you are off creep can kite and micro vs them easily)
Sentry > Zerg.

So if you are facing roach ling with pure zealot stalker then 1 way to lose would be to let the lings surround your stalkers whilst the roaches kite your zealots. If you control so the zealots guard from the lings and the stalkers focus the roaches then it should be a close fight.

Now add FF to the equasion, especially vs non-speed roaches off creep they suddenly become very bad, lings often cant get surface area and essentially the toss 4 gate army gets infinitely stronger.

So to beat 1 base ling-roach with a 4 gate you want to keep a hidden scouting probe to verify that they aren't expanding. Once you know this you can let your sentry count build up to say 5, so they can bank energy, and then swap into heavy stalker zealot. You still don't want to get caught outside your base and surrounded before you have a decent unit count up, so you want to be conservative for a while before moving out, then one you have a large enough army the banked FF should allow you to dominate your zerg opponent.

[mouse]

Really, its key to try to scout this coming, which will give you a heads up early. seeing no expansion you should sac an overlord around the 530-6 minute mark and check what you can see. it is always worth while to drop a spore crawler if you are not sure of what the protoss is doing because it is a small price to pay for saving you instant loss. it can also be used to defend any kind of stargate agression, which may happen since you were unable to scout his tech. when expanding, you need an overseer and units over your expansion until you can get the spine spore combo to defend against dts. multiple overseers is definatly nessessary if he is going blink stalkers as that build is designed to snipe your overseers and leave you with out detection.
SO:
-scout
-spore crawlers
-careful with overseers
-win

[c_kAelle]

I play zerg now in sc2 (just like brood war) but after the campaign i played terran for a months ( i liked the cool new units) but that aside:

i imagine its very easy for terran to counter dts, what with turrets, sweep, and emp.
i suggest saving at least 50 enr for sweeps if you always get 1 base dt'd.
then get a turret after so the enr goes to mules.
if you hold it off you should have a great macro advantage.