[iVnStinger]

Originally Posted by nRvGRiM

I'm masters and I only hotkey my nexi.

Just like Adam! Except he hotkeys his units also. *sigh*,,, Protoss....

Quick Comments

	Nemo:	Haha, I was about to make the same joke
	asdfSchnitzel:	I use all my hotkeys, from 1-0, and i actually use them! And im plat! 0.0

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by ggMufasa

I fail to see how that makes any sense at all?

iVn is a new team, with new players... regardless of that fact how were iVn meant to know he/whoever hacked in the first place?

Any player could potentially 'hack'... I don't see how incidents like this should effect the reputation of teams, especially new ones.

Originally Posted by iVnStinger

I agree completely. One person hacking does not mean the whole team is bad. I just feel like everyone is more interested in pointing fingers and calling people names rather than discussing the situation. Imagine how it feels for me to know that one of my players hacked, or his friends did and now people think that my whole team is crap just because of one members mistake. It is unfair. When EvetS hacked, he admitted it and it was on him, not FaDe. The same should apply for us.

All I ask is that we don't just try to look of ways to prove him guilty, but help try to prove him innocent as well if possible. If I were in his position, that is all I would want.

Nothing that you've said has changed the fact that a member of your clan has hacked. Whether you believe it or not, his story is full of holes. Anyone with any common sense at all can see it's a horrid last ditch effort to clear his name. Gutless. herp derp it was a friend, I went out and he played on my account and went out of his way to not make it blatantly obvious he was hacking...

You people should be more angry than anyone else... He wore your clan tag while he did it...

The simple fact of the matter is that his actions brought a bad name to your entire clan. Whether you think thats fair or not, it's still the truth. If I play someone from iVn I'll be damned sure to watch the replay thoroughly...

edit: The people who run this sight have to maintain a certain amount of integrity when dealing with this sort of thing... In order to maintain that integrity they have to be as impartial as they can, only taking action on things which are proven beyond doubt. I personally think this has been proven beyond doubt but it's not my job to maintain a community and hand out punishments etc.

Every other person is completely entitled to their opinion and how they act on the matter is 100% up to them. I am a member of Clan FaDe and when Evets hacked I was livid. The clan and the SC2Sea community handed out the punishments and that was that... I personally will still not treat Evets any differently from any other hacker. The most that I will do is not openly berate him in a community channel, because of the respect I have for the other people in the clan. What he did HAS cheapened the FaDe clan name. What your member has done HAS cheapened the iVn name.

Quick Comments

	Sola:	It only brings a bad name to the clan if outside ppl are dumb enough to base the actions of 1 person to the whole clan.
	mGGDaedalus:	iVN are being very open to the discovery they may have a hacker among them. Try to be reasonable.
	EveMassacrisM:	This is how hackers should always be treated. Hacking is pathetic and i wont count any of those my friends/

[iVnStinger]

And that sir is what makes you a horrible friend. Your friend made a mistake and instead of helping him, you probably called him names. I don't care if FictioN hacked or not, he is my member and my responsibility, no where so far have I said "LOL IT WASN'T HIM PLEASE FCK OFF". No I've been looking into it and agreeing with whoever I can. He is a teammate and a friend to me, I don't care what he did, I will help him if he needs it. Yes if he did indeed hack, he is going to be punished.

Yes I am angry that this happend, and I do know it now means that iVn is going to have a bad name for a while, but it doesn't mean I need to take insults like that from people like you. You haven't been hacked, nor has anyone said anything bad to you. So please back off.

Quick Comments

	Rockstar:	I have no intention of ever helping a known hacker.
	TCPKiaSu:
	x5.Revenant:	Counter-rep for fighting for your friends.

[Sola]

oO I think this is starting to derail. Maybe just wait for moderators/admin before adding anything else.

Just an idea

[iVnStinger]

Originally Posted by Frosty85

oO I think this is starting to derail. Maybe just wait for moderators/admin before adding anything else.

Just an idea

I agree with you, I'm sorry but it just makes me get upset that people are thinking of us that way

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by iVnStinger

And that sir is what makes you a horrible friend. Your friend made a mistake and instead of helping him, you probably called him names. I don't care if FictioN hacked or not, he is my member and my responsibility, no where so far have I said "LOL IT WASN'T HIM PLEASE FCK OFF". No I've been looking into it and agreeing with whoever I can. He is a teammate and a friend to me, I don't care what he did, I will help him if he needs it. Yes if he did indeed hack, he is going to be punished.

Yes I am angry that this happend, and I do know it now means that iVn is going to have a bad name for a while, but it doesn't mean I need to take insults like that from people like you. You haven't been hacked, nor has anyone said anything bad to you. So please back off.

Actually no it makes HIM a bad friend. H I M ! ! ! What don't you understand about this? There's only one person breaking the rules here...

Your FRIEND decided to wear YOUR CLANS TAG and then hack WHILE REPRESENTING YOU AND YOUR CLAN. He then made some lame ass excuse and LIED TO YOUR FACE. To this point he STILL HASN'T ADMITTED HE HACKED.

Some friend you have there.

[ThatGuyDoMo]

Ok guys look

I have been taking a back seat in this issue to see how the EVIDENCE (note i said EVIDENCE or opinion or speculation) unfolds. It is clear that WillChen/FictioN is guilty in some respect and I am truly sorry for that.

I will be taking this matter into my own hands now after I have observed the shit fight this has turned into, I have seen no real debate, just senseless arguing and name calling on both sides.

I am ashamed of my member who has committed this act, we had absolutely no knowledge of any form of hacking on his part prior to this incident. This has taught me a lesson to observe more carefully the intricacies of our players and put in place higher standards of entry into our team.

Please do not take the words of my fellow team members out of context. They were reacting in an emotional sense to a teammate of whom they gave the premise 'Innocent until proven guilty'. I see some of you have taken them as defending their teammate; although this seems the case they were simply giving their FRIEND the benefit of the doubt until everything was sorted out in terms of evidence (sc2 gears, basic logical fallacies in the story etc.).

I understand how some of you will use this singular event and create some ridiculous generalization concerning the entirety of Team Invision, let me tell you that is the definition of flawed logic and I see no point in trying to argue with it. FictioN's actions do NOT AT ALL reflect those of Team Invision and I vehemently reject any supposition that it could be suggested as such.

I apologize to the victims of this scandal(I hope this never has to happen again to anybody) and also to the admins for having to deal with 4-5 pages of utter crap. Thankyou for your time, I will sort this out on my end, admins do your thing.

And ONE MORE APOLOGY to those whos time I have wasted in this verbose post, and to those who have taken offense to anything my members have said. I am dealing with this matter as we speak (or type or whatever).

P.S. I am the iVn manager in case you didn't know.

Quick Comments

	Sola:	A hacker has no change in me in respecting your clan. gogo iVn!
	TAriiChard:	much respect
	nirvAnA:
	nGenLight:	Your clan sucks cuz you got a hacker. I am clearly joking relax.
	TCPKiaSu:	just by reading this I can tell clan iVn is going to go a long way

[Apth]

This thread is to discuss evidence for and against accusations of hacking, not to discuss penalties and responsibilities. Please remember that.

We have established that hacking occurred in this replay submitted by Scope. WillChen has admitted to this.

Either WillChen, or WillChen's friend who was playing on his account, was hacking.

My Recommendation
If WillChen's friend comes forward, his account will be blacklisted.
If WillChen's friend does not come forward, WillChen's account (Fiction) will be blacklisted.

Because WillChen has admitted that hacking occurred in the original replay, we do not need any more replay submissions or analysis. Nor do we need to discuss how this effects WillChen's clan.

Thanks guys.

Quick Comments

	iVnStinger:	Hey! That was my idea :)
	Nemo:	Simple, and efficient : Apth trademark
	nirvAnA:

[TCPKiaSu]

@joshboy and edge: what I mean is that the hackers still had the nerve join a clan while they themselves knew that they were cheaters and dishonest. By joining that clan they and lying to a lot of people and could also damage the clans reputation. I think that these hackers are lucky just to have the clan members have their backs and even apolagize on their behalfs (of course I would do that too for a fellow friend and clan member)

Quick Comments

Apth:

I'd really like to see this line of discussion end

[nirvAnA]

Its extremely hard for clans to thoroughly inspect every member of their clan to ensure hes not a hacker. Especially in the case of new clans where recruitment policies are less stringent and you need many new members to grow.

So its silly to pigeon hole or blame an entire clan because of a lone individuals actions. Didn't you feel it was unfair when people were bashing FaDe because of evets? Hate the hacker sure, but spare the clan. As you can see they are already doing their best to resolve the issue and now have to deal with the stigma of having of their members been caught hacking which honestly sucks for a new clan so give them a break.

iVnThatGuyDoMo please post the official verdict you come up with soon. An admittance from the guilty partie(s) would be good. Thanks.

[stalking you]

I think Willchen Hacked, Cant wait for DoMo's Post here, really interested to see how this turns out

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by nirvAnA

Its extremely hard for clans to thoroughly inspect every member of their clan to ensure hes not a hacker. Especially in the case of new clans where recruitment policies are less stringent and you need many new members to grow.

So its silly to pigeon hole or blame an entire clan because of a lone individuals actions. Didn't you feel it was unfair when people were bashing FaDe because of evets? Hate the hacker sure, but spare the clan. As you can see they are already doing their best to resolve the issue and now have to deal with the stigma of having of their members been caught hacking which honestly sucks for a new clan so give them a break.

iVnThatGuyDoMo please post the official verdict you come up with soon. An admittance from the guilty partie(s) would be good. Thanks.

I 100% agree with everything you said. It is quite unfortunate that the actions of this one lone individual tarnish the entire clan... Unfortunately thats just the way things are in the real world... If some punk kid took a shit in your burger at McDonalds, would your opinion of the chain be diminished?

If I play an iVn person I will scrutinise the replay with far more effort than anyone else specifically because of the actions of WillChen/Fiction. You can not tell me you wouldn't do the same. This isn't my fault, it's the fault of WillChen, who brought the name of the clan into disrepute to begin with. Their "friend" tarnished their otherwise immaculate reputation. I'm not going to go on a witchhunt trying to find if anyone else in their clan hacks, however I will watch my replays far more diligently.

Quick Comments

	sRAnti:	It seems the only person who thinks worse of iVn is you.
	Rage:	This is ridiculous. Because one person in a clan hacks, that makes the others more likely to?
	x5.Revenant:	No.

[Sola]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

I 100% agree with everything you said. It is quite unfortunate that the actions of this one lone individual tarnish the entire clan... Unfortunately thats just the way things are in the real world... If some punk kid took a shit in your burger at McDonalds, would your opinion of the chain be diminished?

If I play an iVn person I will scrutinise the replay with far more effort than anyone else specifically because of the actions of WillChen/Fiction. You can not tell me you wouldn't do the same. This isn't my fault, it's the fault of WillChen, who brought the name of the clan into disrepute to begin with. Their "friend" tarnished their otherwise immaculate reputation. I'm not going to go on a witchhunt trying to find if anyone else in their clan hacks, however I will watch my replays far more diligently.

Did you even read Apth's post before posting this.

[ROOTPetraeus]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

I 100% agree with everything you said. It is quite unfortunate that the actions of this one lone individual tarnish the entire clan... Unfortunately thats just the way things are in the real world... If some punk kid took a shit in your burger at McDonalds, would your opinion of the chain be diminished?

If I play an iVn person I will scrutinise the replay with far more effort than anyone else specifically because of the actions of WillChen/Fiction. You can not tell me you wouldn't do the same. This isn't my fault, it's the fault of WillChen, who brought the name of the clan into disrepute to begin with. Their "friend" tarnished their otherwise immaculate reputation. I'm not going to go on a witchhunt trying to find if anyone else in their clan hacks, however I will watch my replays far more diligently.

You should judge a clan on how they deal with the situation, not how one of their members acts. If its only a matter of an individual, no need to pull other people into it.

[Meatex]

@Rockstar

You've said your piece several times over - take it back a few notches and let the clan and admins deal with it.

[RicocheT]

Originally Posted by FaDeMeatex

@Rockstar

You've said your piece several times over - take it back a few notches and let the clan and admins deal with it.

Agreed. Rockstar, you were very vocal when the EvetS drama happened and now. I don't mind that, you're just voicing your opinion, but yeah, pull back. I do like how you stick to your guns no matter what (consistency at its finest old chap) but like Meat said, let them decide what they'll do.

Plus, we've all watched the replay and seen how friggin obvious it is.

[iVnStinger]

@Rockstar

Look I'm very sorry you feel that way, but we don't need to fight anymore ok? I wanna apologize for being childish and trying to change your mind. You opinion is your opinion, and I respect that now..

As for WillChen, things are looking pretty bad for him, Domo and I have been discussing it and he may be kicked. I'll make sure Domo gets to post our verdict as soon as we can.

Again, very sorry for how childish I was. I wasn't handling the situation the best I could. I also oversaw the evidence that proved he was a hacker. I am now certain that he is one and actions will be taken as soon as possible.

[stalking you]

Originally Posted by iVnStinger

@Rockstar

Look I'm very sorry you feel that way, but we don't need to fight anymore ok? I wanna apologize for being childish and trying to change your mind. You opinion is your opinion, and I respect that now..

As for WillChen, things are looking pretty bad for him, Domo and I have been discussing it and he may be kicked. I'll make sure Domo gets to post our verdict as soon as we can.

Again, very sorry for how childish I was. I wasn't handling the situation the best I could. I also oversaw the evidence that proved he was a hacker. I am now certain that he is one and actions will be taken as soon as possible.

Good to hear you and Domo talked bout it

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by iVnStinger

@Rockstar

Look I'm very sorry you feel that way, but we don't need to fight anymore ok? I wanna apologize for being childish and trying to change your mind. You opinion is your opinion, and I respect that now..

As for WillChen, things are looking pretty bad for him, Domo and I have been discussing it and he may be kicked. I'll make sure Domo gets to post our verdict as soon as we can.

Again, very sorry for how childish I was. I wasn't handling the situation the best I could. I also oversaw the evidence that proved he was a hacker. I am now certain that he is one and actions will be taken as soon as possible.

No worries bro, there's nothing personal about any of this. It's unfortunate that these things have taken place and that you and your clan have been dragged into it. As you've probably noticed I despise hackers and think they should be hung by their balls from a tall building. Let me just be clear that I'm not angry at you or iVn, and I do think its very unfortunate that the actions of one person have created this issue. I know you were just trying to defend your mate. I was just trying to point out that perhaps he isn't as good a mate as you think he is.

[Scope_IV]

Anybody have any more information or anything regarding this? I would like to here from iVn on their decisions and such. It has been quiet a while since anything has happened.