[syfChadMann]

Originally Posted by xGKingBenji

How will players like PiG, Mafia, tgun, Rossi etc become internationally known if we aren't showing them in what is claimed to be the premier Australian event and instead showing 2 masters level players in an open bracket?

Because they will show their games on Day 2...
-____-
that'll do now.. people need to learn to read and understand. I know its hard over written text but please, try. BACK ON TOPIC NOW GUYS

[Maynarde]

Originally Posted by Dox

I'm only seeking feedback on the topics requested at the moment. Everything else is taken care of. I'm also mainly seeking feedback from the competitors since it directly affects them.

Please back to the tournament format and such guys, stream will be fine.

[Dox]

Okay I've caught up on the thread now. I'm gonna politely ask that people stick to the actual feedback topics I requested in the OP. Everything else that has been mentioned over the last two pages, whether it's the games on the stream, the speed of the open bracket, players occupying computers, spectators in the tournament area, the team liquid stream feature, etc - is all stuff that i addressed and resolved after the event wrapped up.

This actually reminds me of a taste-testing survey I attended when I was a kid. Arnott's were changing the recipe for their BBQ shapes, and they gathered a crowd of 250 people to sample them and provide feedback on the new flavour, in comparison to the old flavour. The 3rd guy in line said nothing about the flavour - but instead complained about the new colour used on the packaging. For some reason that memory always stuck with me, and this really brings me back to that day.

Quick Comments

	Cute:	They weren't always green?!
	inFeZa:	:) how did i miss this post

[iM MaFia]

Edit: sorry iPhone Internet takes long tO refresh didn't mean to drag the topic on

[inFeZa]

Originally Posted by xGKingMafia

I'd have to say i dont understand why and im pretty sure majority of people would rather watch light ve glade than like chadmann vs pinder or something even if you can make it a funny interesting game people that are not familiar with the scene would think like this is acl sea aus tournament? It might give them a bad impression.

Edit: sorry iPhone Internet takes long tO refresh didn't mean to drag the topic on

[iM MaFia]

Anyways, back on topic. In my opinion I really don't think there are much benefits in getting higher seeds for acl standings and I think it would be much nicer especially if it did become a semi gsl style where players chose their groups otherwise what's the point of seeds?(or some other format,just not the current) Like acl Sydney me and glade was seed 1/2 goin into the event then we both topped our groups an had to play in semis. Isn't the point of seeds is to try to have the higher seeds play at least early as possible? Well anyway I think the current format is very or too much luck based. I ended up 6th in that tournament (despite only losing a total of 2 matches same as glade who took 1st) everyone else lost 3 but they obviously won more matches but lost their matches at the right time. If the format or structure is the same as Sydney I think I wouldn't even bother to qualify if it wasn't for WCS. It would be a lot better just going through open bracket and picking your group. That way it's a lot easier to avoid a group like Rossi targa mafia etc

Quick Comments

	Dox:	thanks! :D
	inFeZa:	much better post!

[Norksman]

My 2 cents.

Online Round - I like the format (2 days, double elim bracket) and would prefer to limit entry so that those that have qualified through the regionals can't play, but not sure that that is something that's possible in the ACL points structure.

Regionals - Swiss seems like the best bet, however having seen complaints re: the Challonge method of determining matches, that'd be something that'd need to be addressed.

Pro Groups - Love the idea of the championship seeds selecting their groups.

[FvRelimzkE]

Personally, I'll only participate in the offline qualifiers if they are Swiss format. $20 - $30 is a lot of money for University students, so getting to play 5 or so Bo3s in a day is much much more appealing than a double elimination bracket where I know players such as GLaDe, JimDiddy and TargA will be attending.

For the regionals, the double elim open bracket with the winners getting to choose their groups is a sick format, and I hope that remains. It rewards the placement in the open bracket.

[Dox]

Cool, that's great feedback - thank you! Really seeking comments from more players please!

[syfChadMann]

I just thought of one little issue.. I understand it's cause being the busy schedule..
however, the last qualifier being just a week before the event makes it hard for people to make bookings knowing they are in the open or pro bracket.. Ideal situation would be final qualifiers finishing like 3-4 weeks before the event. Pretty sure that has been the case for ACL Syd and Gold Coast.. so I presume Melb's qualifiers were packed together due to a busy schedule in the tournament world?.. Anyway, in my opinion - it's better for there to be a bit of time between the last qualifiers and the event.. for teams such as mine I need to work out which players to send based on their qualification..

still love your work Dox & ACL

[Dox]

Yeah I think I addressed that somewhere in the OP, can't remember. It's a really stacked month+ coming up and it's hard to squeeze things in. Generally most of the people attending book their stuff whether they qualify for the Championship Bracket playoffs or not anyway.

I'm gonna spend the next 45 minutes pondering and finalising what will be changed for the upcoming events, and I'll also confirm the date/structure for the Online Round. Watch this space.

[syfChadMann]

Originally Posted by Dox

Generally most of the people attending book their stuff whether they qualify for the Championship Bracket playoffs or not anyway.

Yeah, but just considering how a few people have saved on Accommodation costs by flying in on Saturday during the day knowing they were in the pro-bracket and didn't need to be there first thing.

[Nandos]

Here's my two cents, hope it helps. (:

1) Online rounds

Why not have all the qualifiers online? How was attendance last season? I'd imagine there will be more sign-ups.

2) Swiss Style

I love this as I am a casual player, and it means I get a go against some of the best players. As someone mentioned above, the registration fee isn't cheap for students and this gives me my moneys worth. Top players seem to dislike it and that's understandable.

3) Open Bracket

This is great, love everything about it.

Other feedback: Allocate time and follow it strictly so it does not finish late again, it appears hard to squeeze everything into 2 days so its no easy task. Dedicate an admin in the tourney area solely to get games going and make sure players do not ladder or hog computers. Make team mates play each other first so match fixing doesn't occur again. Also, a fan meeting session or Q & A session with the pros could be nice. (:

Quick Comments

inFeZa:

Just putting it out there, i never get enough food

[Dox]

Okay here's the changes that will be implemented. I'll make a formal announcement thread tonight when I have some spare time.


1) Only one Online round for this League (ACL Melbourne).
1.1) You can register for ONLY the Online Round, or ANY of the Regionals. The Online Round is there to support people who can't make it to a regional.
1.2) Participants in the Online Round will be rewarded with just as many points as the guys at the regionals. They won't receive any prizes or a WCS spot, however. So there's still a strong incentive to get to a regional event if you can. Anyone found trying to sneak through the system will be seriously penalised.
1.3) The Online Round will be the day before ACL Brisbane Regionals (SAT, June 30th). Full details and registrations will be available this weekend.


2) Swiss format is being discarded for the upcoming ACL Melbourne Regionals
2.1) With a WCS seed on the line, the event needs to be run as fairly as possible. We can't risk a catastrophe on some matchmaking anomalies. All of the Regionals for this league will be Bo3, Double Elimination.
2.2) We'll continue to review the inclusion of Swiss for future events. I'm currently developing my own tournament database and software interface to manage this. I hope to showcase it in the near future.


3) Open Bracket & Qualifier Seeds "picking their own groups"
3.1) The top 16 confirmed invitees to the championship playoffs will be broken into two halves. Those who are ranked 9th through 16th will be automatically placed in their groups. Those in the upper half (1st through 8th) will choose their groups. There will be a live broadcast to facilitate this, however no decision has been made on whether we'll have all 8 players joining the broadcast, or if I'll just present their choices.
3.2) Similarly, the top 4 players from the Open Bracket will get to choose their groups. The lower 4 will have their groups allocated.


4) The 16 invites to ACL Melbourne
4.1) Considering we have 4 Regional events and 1 Online event, assuming no-one competes in multiple regional events, we'll be able to extract our top 15 simply by taking the top 3 players from each event. This leaves 1 remaining spot.
4.2) If we find ourselves in the above scenario, I'll be taking the 4th place participants from each qualifier and putting them in a round-robin playoff to determine the 16th invite. If someone chooses to attend (and take a podium position) in multiple regionals however, this will be unnecessary.

Quick Comments

	Maynarde:	Nice
	SLCN.Kez:	Fantastic implementations!
	Champi:

[TargA]

good changes!


How do you decide the top 8 seedings? Since all qualifiers give equal amount of points

[inFeZa]

Originally Posted by Dox

Okay here's the changes that will be implemented. I'll make a formal announcement thread tonight when I have some spare time.


1) Only one Online round for this League (ACL Melbourne).
1.1) You can register for ONLY the Online Round, or ANY of the Regionals. The Online Round is there to support people who can't make it to a regional.
1.2) Participants in the Online Round will be rewarded with just as many points as the guys at the regionals. They won't receive any prizes or a WCS spot, however. So there's still a strong incentive to get to a regional event if you can. Anyone found trying to sneak through the system will be seriously penalised.
1.3) The Online Round will be the day before ACL Brisbane Regionals (SAT, June 30th). Full details and registrations will be available this weekend.


2) Swiss format is being discarded for the upcoming ACL Melbourne Regionals
2.1) With a WCS seed on the line, the event needs to be run as fairly as possible. We can't risk a catastrophe on some matchmaking anomalies. All of the Regionals for this league will be Bo3, Double Elimination.
2.2) We'll continue to review the inclusion of Swiss for future events. I'm currently developing my own tournament database and software interface to manage this. I hope to showcase it in the near future.


3) Open Bracket & Qualifier Seeds "picking their own groups"
3.1) The top 16 confirmed invitees to the championship playoffs will be broken into two halves. Those who are ranked 9th through 16th will be automatically placed in their groups. Those in the upper half (1st through 8th) will choose their groups. There will be a live broadcast to facilitate this, however no decision has been made on whether we'll have all 8 players joining the broadcast, or if I'll just present their choices.
3.2) Similarly, the top 4 players from the Open Bracket will get to choose their groups. The lower 4 will have their groups allocated.


4) The 16 invites to ACL Melbourne
4.1) Considering we have 4 Regional events and 1 Online event, assuming no-one competes in multiple regional events, we'll be able to extract our top 15 simply by taking the top 3 players from each event. This leaves 1 remaining spot.
4.2) If we find ourselves in the above scenario, I'll be taking the 4th place participants from each qualifier and putting them in a round-robin playoff to determine the 16th invite. If someone chooses to attend (and take a podium position) in multiple regionals however, this will be unnecessary.

[Dox]

Overall career points within rank.

I'm just gonna pull some fake results out of my ass for sake of comparison:


Brisbane Regional
#1. TargA
#2. mOOnGLaDe
#3. ChadMann

Sydney Regional
#1. MaFia
#2. Ninja
#3. iaguz

Melbourne Regional
#1. West
#2. deth
#3. Techtron

Adelaide Regional
#1. EdgE
#2. Bielsko
#3. Maynarde

Online Round
#1. YoonYJ
#2. yang
#3. Fenner

We would group all of the players by rank...

So all of the 1st place participants: TargA, MaFia, West, EdgE, YoonYJ

...and then sort them by overall ACL career points. I don't have access to my spreadsheet on this laptop, but I believe the order would be something like MaFia > TargA > YoonYJ > West > EdgE

That's seeds 1 through 5 established.

So then we repeat this process for all the guys who came 2nd at each event. And 3rd.

So effectively the top 8 seeds will be the winners of each regional, with an additional 3 runner-ups. Everyone else below that line is automatically allocated.

Note that in the example above - mOOnGLaDe has far more career points than anyone else in the top 16. However, he only came 2nd at his regional event, so this would pretty much guarantee him 6th seed.

Hope that makes sense.

EDIT: To further clarify, I've highlighted the top 8 players in red. They would get to pick their groups.

Quick Comments

	Maynarde:	I can't believe I lost to EdgE and Bielsko
	TAEdgE:	i love shoutouts

[syfChadMann]

Originally Posted by Dox

#3. ChadMann

yep

My response to the new changes.

thats me in the blue in the background
So many epic people in that pic, The guy yelling at the chick, dude in black doing an epic 'yes' dance..

Quick Comments

	TAminimat:	wont be #3 if you hit me ^_^
	TAEdgE:	no im the blue
	Dox:	YOU'RE MAH BOY BLUE

[Eddie]

Really like the online round for those unable to attend regional events. If you're only running 1 it's the best way to go i think. Fair to all, nice change.

Quite disappointed in the removal of swiss format. Can work well, but ideally you need 6 rounds minimum. Or run a few rounds, then into top 4/8 finals. I image the new format wont be as welcoming to non GM's/casual players (majority), and be a fairly steep price for potentially an hour or two's play and travel. Thought it went against the ACL Ethos of playing 1-2 games and getting knocked out straight away. It's all well and good that the pro's have a 'better', or more practiced format for the WCS seed, but i was hoping ACL would make a big deal of the WCS blizzard event and try and attract as many players of all levels as they could. Come and enjoy a day of starcraft and ACL. I'll try and stay as long as i can, but i can see people leaving soon after they're knocked out, and less people attending. Hopefully i am wrong, just my thoughts on it.

Nice changes to open bracket + pro bracket group selections!

[Champi]

changes look really good dox.

now mafia and tgun can kindly stay the **** away from the open bracket