[iVnStinger]

Originally Posted by FaDeMeatex

I believe the negative rep should be used for exactly what I used it for
Indicating I feel what you said was rude - especially considering my post wasn't directed at you ~.~

Yes I am a stickler for that kind of thing and takes things too personally pretty easily unless I magically get a good night sleep
So my bad

How can you say my post was not directed at me if you specifically stated "this is incorrect - eliminating cheaters". That is directed at my post for sure. What I said was not meant to be rude. I was just trying to say you were repeating what I said, and that I disagree with you saying it can be done. But let's not argue about it. Cheers

Quick Comments

	Rockstar:	off topic. take it to pms
	ROOTPetraeus:	no...
	RicocheT:	No no *artosis voice*

[Nemo]

This thread have been quite calm lately. I think the action begun here might have had some effects. People might be more afraid of hacking lately. Maybe I'm too optimist though.

[TAXanT]

Originally Posted by Nemo

This thread have been quite calm lately. I think the action begun here might have had some effects. People might be more afraid of hacking lately. Maybe I'm too optimist though.

I second those thoughts! Hopefully that's the case.

[mGMUSE]

Name: Empirical

I only played a game against him but I felt a little weird after this game.. so I checked the replay just to see why I lost and found some very strange stuff by him!

1. No drone scout. Initial Overlord does not scout my spawn location until later(my depot revealed it). Still, how risky is that?

*Also, ONE ling is sent straight to my base

2. Lair, Evo chamber started as my cloak started. Take into account he hasn't scouted my 2nd gas or my base at all.

***3.*** 8:00 He sends an overlord in and DOES NOT LOOK AT IT(look at player cam) and instead is dealing with the hellions in his base. However instantly he plants down two spores. He only looks at my base at 8:30

4. It seems rather suspicious that he hasn't scouted what I was going for(Thor Hellion - not very popular on GM) and yet was making the correct unit composition right from the start(Roach Muta Bane - once again not popular at all).

5. His SEVERE lack of scouting, getting the watchtower as a top GM zerg is very suspicious.14:23 he morphs banes and seems to be getting ready for an attack(pure units in production) just as I move out WITH 0 SCOUTING.

6. Attacks just as my thors were out of position clearing rocks.

95% a hacker

He plays rather similiar to FadeEvets imo. if someone else has replays against him i'd loev to analyze them.

[Peleus]

I'd agree it's really suspect. Little things like deflecting the overlord initial scout even though he didn't see anything to indicate you were there. The ling then went the same direction once more not even bothering to scout other locations (i.e. double scouting the same place).

Other things include having no focus on his army, but as soon as you move out he straight away selects his army and morphs banes.

I'd say hacker.

[Fourby]

Hmm i really had my doubts about empiracal being a hacker because he had vs'd some of the other guys on Teamspeak recently without any issues... But yeh few things i found suss:

1. random runnning ling to your base without seeing anything

2. he made the evo.. then dropped spores.. he ran his overlord into your base, but didnt actually look at it and instantly dropped the spores when it got vision (but he never looked first)

yeh strange build unless it was just some strange coincidence that he was going to go some kind of all in etc etc (not saying it excuses anything but some things do just happen by really bad luck,, i wanna see more replays of this guy)

[jayaiwhy]

I watched it, but I'm not sure if he's a hacker just from that one replay

Maybe he just coinflips and gets things right .___.

1. Maybe he doesn't scout with drones (which he should)

2. Nothing sus about it

3.I sometimes blindly put spores because hellion into banshee was quite popular at one stage, but yeah, seems bit sus

4.Some people put a roach warren down to defend against hellions, and later looked like he was going for lingbanemuta, then transitioned to roaches so that's not an accusation point

5. This, I don't know, maybe he's just terrible

6. Lucky?

Just an opinion of a mid-masters, I think there need to be more replays to confirm he's a hacker

[Zanderax]

Originally Posted by mGMUSE

Name: Empirical

I only played a game against him but I felt a little weird after this game.. so I checked the replay just to see why I lost and found some very strange stuff by him!

1. No drone scout. Initial Overlord does not scout my spawn location until later(my depot revealed it). Still, how risky is that?

*Also, ONE ling is sent straight to my base

2. Lair, Evo chamber started as my cloak started. Take into account he hasn't scouted my 2nd gas or my base at all.

***3.*** 8:00 He sends an overlord in and DOES NOT LOOK AT IT(look at player cam) and instead is dealing with the hellions in his base. However instantly he plants down two spores. He only looks at my base at 8:30

4. It seems rather suspicious that he hasn't scouted what I was going for(Thor Hellion - not very popular on GM) and yet was making the correct unit composition right from the start(Roach Muta Bane - once again not popular at all).

5. His SEVERE lack of scouting, getting the watchtower as a top GM zerg is very suspicious.14:23 he morphs banes and seems to be getting ready for an attack(pure units in production) just as I move out WITH 0 SCOUTING.

6. Attacks just as my thors were out of position clearing rocks.

95% a hacker

He plays rather similiar to FadeEvets imo. if someone else has replays against him i'd loev to analyze them.

No, not at all. I see no indication of any kind of hacking or cheating.
All due respect to you so I'll go though my reasoning.

1) You have only played him once. Luck still plays a factor in all games and anything that may seem a bit lucky could just be that, lucky. You would need at least 4 more games before you could draw any conclusions.

2) The overlord thing did seem a bit suspect but vsing Terran you don't want to fly your first OL into his base for fear of losing it. He was keeping it there to scout later.

3) Failed bunker rush... what would you think would come after that? Cloaked Banishes Zerg deal with this all the time. It's a natural precaution. If he put down 3 at each base and got some hydras then it would be curious but not just 1 at each base. That's just standard practice.

4) He has seen many Hellions and many Banishes but very few Marine. With the OL scout at about 8 he doesn't see any attachment to the one barracks that you have. He is just going for the standard counter. He is directly countering what he has seen.

5) There was hardly that many banes. They have to morph sometime don't they? Just lucky. And why wouldn't he prepare the rest of his forces for a surround?

6) Only 2 of your Thors were out of position for a full 30 seconds. I'd say it's bad scouting on your part that you didn't know the attack was coming. If you scouted the front you would have heaps of time to get back.

All in all. You didn't play well enough that game... sorry. He beat you fair and square. I'm voting no hacker.

[wTlzq]

Need more replays definitely since there are people vouching for him

[Peleus]

Originally Posted by Zanderax

2) The overlord thing did seem a bit suspect but vsing Terran you don't want to fly your first OL into his base for fear of losing it. He was keeping it there to scout later.

How did he know the base was even there? you want to send in the overlord until you see something like a CC and quickly turn it. The point is to scout spawn locations which he never does.

[NvRossi]

Definitly a hacker, too many suss unit movements, too little scouting, all points made in the original post i agree with.
the spores are a dead giveaway

[ROOT`iaguz]

Played a game vs him earlier today. Didn't feel like he'd done anything particularly sneaky or anything.

[xGKingdelete]

can't find any explanation of how he knew your spawn at the start of the game. need more replays of this guy

[Nemo]

Who is Empirical ? He has a clan ?

Iaguz, can you post the replay please ? Even if it's not map hacking it's interesting especially as you're too. Anymore replays, hack or not would be useful.

[crAzerk]

3:40 - Deflects OL before scouting base. ?? Why would he do that?
maybe he judges you are spawned there by the timing of your SCV scout? (and assuming you went anticlockwise)

5:14 - Sends his scouting ling up Terran's ramp (before even scouting spawn position) Does not have a waypoint away, so he seems to assume you're spawned there. Suspicious
5:20 - Loses ling to 2 hellions moving out, could have saved that easily if he was watching (IF he had MH)

8:00 - He does get vision of your (early) Starport BUT he doesn't actually look at it. Not sure what's up, but 1 precautionary spore at each base is nothing that suspicious, especially after that opener, Shortizz used to do exactly the same thing as I've mentioned before.

9:43 - Banshees are skirting around to come in from the south, but he is moving his queens towards the injured Spore. Very natural reaction and if he had maphack he would do otherwise (and instead prepare and move towards the south)

10:30 Loses about 10 lings to your Hellions before pulling it away. If he had maphack and looked at the minimap he would surely have noticed it earlier

12:00 - Crashes a Baneling into Destructible Rocks likeaboss.
Also do note that his Mutalisk following your Banshee DOES catch sight of your Thor and he DOES look at it.
After seeing that, he makes 7 Roaches. Perfectly natural.

12:23 - Glances into Fog at a blank spot, not sure what that was about

14:20 - Morphs Banelings as Terran is moving out. Slightly sus as he was doing nothing for a good 10-20 seconds besides looking at his Roaches, he could be eyeing the minimap and caught sight of that.
Nevertheless, could just be lucky timing too, as he did get supply blocked so he couldn't make other things anyway.

17:00 - Moves out and hits when Terran's Thors are clearing rocks.
Think about it - he just cleared up your Hellion /Thor push quite comfortably with his Roach force, and he quickly almost remaxxes. Surely it's not a bad idea to move out and test the Terran's defence?
I wouldn't count this as suspicious

20:30 - Banshee hits 4th base, he only reacts after the Banshee hits. Normal.

~~~

Conclusion - Suspicious, but definitely nowhere near conclusive. It wasn't even a consistent display of maphack as I have highlighted in the numerous other NON-maphack examples. But some of the actions are indeed really weird, such as his 'guessing' of your spawn location. Need more replays.
I hesitate to put him on 'Suspected', just because of how inconsistent it is. If an admin thinks otherwise, you can overrule me and edit the OP

EDIT: Moving him to Suspected due to subsequent posts

Quick Comments

wTlzq:

fantastic analysis

[Nemo]

Crazerk, if I'm not mistaken, you forgot MeLo on the list, didn't you ?

[crAzerk]

Who's that Nemo? Could you link me the post (s) that analyzes his replays?

Anyway, received an anonymous tip, here are two more replays of Empirical. I dont' have time to review these two today, can someone have a look?
(The replay system appears to be bugged, it says it's Shortizz but once you load up you'll see it's Empirical)
http://www.sc2sea.com/replays.php?do=viewreplay&id=617
http://www.sc2sea.com/replays.php?do=viewreplay&id=616

[Nemo]

There : http://www.sc2sea.com/showpost.php?p...&postcount=367 Timber replay
and http://www.sc2sea.com/showpost.php?p...&postcount=377

Rossi reviewed it :http://www.sc2sea.com/showpost.php?p...&postcount=374

EveSnow: http://www.sc2sea.com/showpost.php?p...&postcount=379

Champi : http://www.sc2sea.com/showpost.php?p...&postcount=390

After those 3 comments, I haven't watched it myself but I can if you want.

---------------------------------

I will watch all those about Empirical tonight when back home (in 6 hours).

[Peleus]

Originally Posted by crAzerk

Who's that Nemo? Could you link me the post (s) that analyzes his replays?

Anyway, received an anonymous tip, here are two more replays of Empirical. I dont' have time to review these two today, can someone have a look?
(The replay system appears to be bugged, it says it's Shortizz but once you load up you'll see it's Empirical)
http://www.sc2sea.com/replays.php?do=viewreplay&id=617
http://www.sc2sea.com/replays.php?do=viewreplay&id=616

He's not hacking in either of those replays. It is useful however to see the contrast between how he plays in those games vs the replay supplied. For example, in the Korhal Compound game he is constantly going for watch towers and placing overlords around the map to spot for drops, in the supplied replay he was never scouting anywhere near as much.

[Lyfe]

RE: empirical, played him around 7pm last night, didnt seem to be hacking from what i can tell. couple suspect positional things/scouting things but nothing i would call anyone out for.

http://www.sc2sea.com/replays.php?do=viewreplay&id=619