[Nemo]

Tell us which ones were defeats please and give a quick explanation why you think you lost. Choose the one you want to be analyzed, we can't do more than one at a time and it's not useful to you anyway.

Thanks.

[pkat]

Originally Posted by Nemo

Tell us which ones were defeats please and give a quick explanation why you think you lost. Choose the one you want to be analyzed, we can't do more than one at a time and it's not useful to you anyway.

Thanks.

Sorry about that I will paste them here and update my first post.


Defeat1

Defeat2


Update

Defeat3 - I played this so badly its not funny... never took a proper 3rd and just general macro and unit control was sloppy. In my defense it was second match of the morning and I was still sleepy lol.

[Apth]

Originally Posted by pkat

Here are the two matches I lost for those just interested in those.

Defeat1

Defeat2

If I haven't done these in the next couple of days PM me, I tend to forget things.

[faithHunter]

Replay Link: http://terranimba.com/replay/Dl0mJFx8LmrcYT9y

I've done the paperwork for you

BnetID: faithHunter - 631
League: Silver vs Gold (If I am not mistaken)
Matchup: vs

Some points that I want to improve on:

• Map Control
• Macro and Supply Blocks (i.e. how many times a macro lapse happened, how many times did I get supply blocked, etc.)
• Defending against harrasment or drops

Summary of the game as far as I can remember:

I opened up with a 1-1-1 to Hellion Drop him, but then he scanned my base so I transitioned to Banshees. He hellion dropped me, but I managed to defend against it. Then he expanded and I did too. Then we went on a somewhat linear Marine Tank vs Marine Tank game, but for some reason I was behind in terms of army. I tried to contain him from his third, but he circled around and killed mine. I got vastly outmacroed afterwards, and gg-ed out of the game.

Thanks in advance.

[Nemo]

We will do both tomorrow with Apth on stream if he's available or I would do them alone if not.

[Nemo]

Originally Posted by pkat

Sorry about that I will paste them here and update my first post.


Defeat1

Defeat2


Update

Defeat3 - I played this so badly its not funny... never took a proper 3rd and just general macro and unit control was sloppy. In my defense it was second match of the morning and I was still sleepy lol.

Replay analysis: http://www.twitch.tv/nemoulysses/b/311938799

I watched games 1 and 2.

Summary

• Overlord as soon as you have 9 pop and 100 minerals AS SOON AS !
• 14 gaz / 14 pool every game or 15 hatch 15 pool vs Terran if you want
• If opponent is one basing prepare for anything between 6 and 8 if you're unable to scout what opponent is doing
• 4 queens and lair (or evo) is good vs every Terran opening cause 2 are injecting, 2 are creeping and the 4 of them are defending
• Make 1 or 2 extra queens to creep, it's overly important
• It's easier as beginner to be aggressive. As soon as you have 2 bases saturated, make only units, take a third and attack in the same time. Then you saturate the third. After you make another timing attack while taking 4rth and repeat the process
• If you're opponent is teching, be sure to have infestor to prepare for T3 and have infestors that are good vs everything you opponent can send you.

Quick Comments

pkat:

Fantastic replay feedback

[Nemo]

Originally Posted by faithHunter

Replay Link: http://terranimba.com/replay/Dl0mJFx8LmrcYT9y

I've done the paperwork for you

BnetID: faithHunter - 631
League: Silver vs Gold (If I am not mistaken)
Matchup: vs

Some points that I want to improve on:

• Map Control
• Macro and Supply Blocks (i.e. how many times a macro lapse happened, how many times did I get supply blocked, etc.)
• Defending against harassment or drops

Summary of the game as far as I can remember:

I opened up with a 1-1-1 to Hellion Drop him, but then he scanned my base so I transitioned to Banshees. He hellion dropped me, but I managed to defend against it. Then he expanded and I did too. Then we went on a somewhat linear Marine Tank vs Marine Tank game, but for some reason I was behind in terms of army. I tried to contain him from his third, but he circled around and killed mine. I got vastly outmacroed afterwards, and gg-ed out of the game.

Thanks in advance.

Replay analysis: http://fr.twitch.tv/nemoulysses/b/311947023

Summary

• 1-1-1 to be able to punish greedy play and defend any early attacks (banshee, hellions, bio), THEN expand, don't make so many buildings you can't afford to produce from
• Make sensor tower. His won him the game by denying your BF hellion drop.
• Don't siege in the middle of such an open map, it's not Xel Naga with a centre that you can hold to be safe

Quick Comments

	xGKingdelete:	i owe you a lot of rep
	faithHunter:	I do too :D

[faithHunter]

Originally Posted by Nemo

Replay analysis: http://fr.twitch.tv/nemoulysses/b/311947023

Summary

1-1-1 to be able to punish greedy play and defend any early attacks (banshee, hellions, bio), THEN expand, don't make so many buildings you can aford to produce from
Make sensor tower. His won him the game by deniying your BF hellion drop.
Don't siege in the middle of such an open map, it's not Xel Naga with a center that you can hold to be safe

Thank you for the replay analysis Nemo. Helped me a lot and made me realize the small things that I could've done better and also the big flaws on my execution of the 1-1-1. Hopefully my TvT will improve

[Nemo]

You're welcome. Thanks for the feedback !

[pkat]

Originally Posted by Nemo

Replay analysis: http://www.twitch.tv/nemoulysses/b/311938799

I watched games 1 and 2.

Summary

• Overlord as soon as you have 9 pop and 100 minerals AS SOON AS !
• 14 gaz / 14 pool every game or 15 hatch 15 pool vs Terran if you want
• If opponent is one basing prepare for anything between 6 and 8 if you're unable to scout what opponent is doing
• 4 queens and lair (or evo) is good vs every Terran opening cause 2 are injecting, 2 are creeping and the 4 of them are defending
• Make 1 or 2 extra queens to creep, it's overly important
• It's easier as beginner to be aggressive. As soon as you have 2 bases saturated, make only units, take a third and attack in the same time. Then you saturate the third. After you make another timing attack while taking 4rth and repeat the process
• If you're opponent is teching, be sure to have infestor to prepare for T3 and have infestors that are good vs everything you opponent can send you.

First off would like to thank you for looking over my replays and your time


Most of this evening for me has been working on bettering each of these points you have listed with a couple of friends

One thing that gets me every so often is the queen before hatch which moves into the additional queens! So I have been practicing my opening making sure to overlord at the right time and get the right amount of queens ready along with absolutely outright making sure I have atleast 1 spore at each base (I do normally drop a spore) however in my mindset of this guy will die now mode I forget little things and lose my macro advantage and production advantage which ultimately effects my late game.



As for infestor play they are relatively new to my build ( I can never micro them well enough to last long enough) So dropping the infestation pit is mostly done against something like a mass marine build where I know I can crush it with ling, bling roach(I understand this tatic may not work in the upper ranks). But they are a unit that I am working to get better with to make sure the fungles land just right



I also understand your point of beginner zerg being over aggressive early game....no matter how many games I lose from over committing to attacks retreating just never really pops in until its far too late.



For a final point and for some redemption if I don't gg before leaving a match I immediately do so before starting a new match this goes for others that don't gg after a match I like to send the gg not as a insult but as a player who respected the play.


EDIT: Should also mention that the double lair was a total brain fart on my part.

[Nemo]

You're welcome and thanks for the feedback !

Originally Posted by pkat

As for infestor play they are relatively new to my build ( I can never micro them well enough to last long enough) So dropping the infestation pit is mostly done against something like a mass marine build where I know I can crush it with ling, bling roach(I understand this tatic may not work in the upper ranks). But they are a unit that I am working to get better with to make sure the fungles land just right

Infestors are harder to play. You cannot sacrifice them, have to protect cast different spells in different conditions, use them sometimes as anti-air. But that's the way to upper levels. So don't be afraid of loosing because miss-managing them at the beginning. That's the road to improvement.

Originally Posted by pkat

I also understand your point of beginner zerg being over aggressive early game....no matter how many games I lose from over committing to attacks retreating just never really pops in until its far too late.

My advice was to be more aggressive than you are now. Being to passive as is far harder and not even the best choice even at higher leagues. The Korean s or Stephano for example are very aggressive players.

The key is to make cycles and pressure. Cycle of unit when you put down a new hatch and new tech. When you made enough damage and cannot go on safelly on your attack, saturate the base then build new units of your new tech, replenish your army and go back to fight. Then another base etc.

For a final point and for some redemption if I don't gg before leaving a match I immediately do so before starting a new match this goes for others that don't gg after a match I like to send the gg not as a insult but as a player who respected the play.

Fair enough.

EDIT: Should also mention that the double lair was a total brain fart on my part.

Haha, it happens especially in panic situations.

gl for your next games

[Lewis]

Originally Posted by pkat

One thing that gets me every so often is the queen before hatch which moves into the additional queens! So I have been practicing my opening making sure to overlord at the right time and get the right amount of queens ready along with absolutely outright making sure I have atleast 1 spore at each base (I do normally drop a spore) however in my mindset of this guy will die now mode I forget little things and lose my macro advantage and production advantage which ultimately effects my late game.

You don't always need one spore at the start. If you scout gas/ see hellions feel free to drop one but if you see no gas then you are not required to get a spore as they can't get banshees. One thing I like to do is drop a evo chamber blocking the ramp into my main. If I feel like banshees are coming I drop a spore at each otherwise I use it for upgrades.

[Apth]

If anyone has posted a replay and you think we've missed it, please PM myself or Nemo and let us know.

I'm pretty sure we're up to date, but it's hard to tell sometimes.

[mGGAequitas]

http://drop.sc/136141

This is typically how I lose my PvZ's i'm on 3 base and they just pump tonnes of roaches.
I don't think I lose because of my composition but i'm not sure exactly why I am losing, maybe my micro or my macro, I know I was floating a fair bit at a few points in the game; but i don't think enough to worry to much about.

Quick Comments

xGKingdelete:

decided to analyse this one in real time, might post a summary later probably not though

[iM yang]

Originally Posted by Aequitas

http://drop.sc/136141

This is typically how I lose my PvZ's i'm on 3 base and they just pump tonnes of roaches.
I don't think I lose because of my composition but i'm not sure exactly why I am losing, maybe my micro or my macro, I know I was floating a fair bit at a few points in the game; but i don't think enough to worry to much about.

#1 This is on a 6min/1HYGas map

When a Zerg throws units at your at this timing it means he isn't taking a 4th with any reasonable amount of drones. You should've forcefielded the ramps better to cut his units while sitting on a good sentry count, building your stalker/immortal numbers.
At the 15:00 minute mark you are at equal mining bases and workers, this means that you can trade VERY cost efficiently with force fields and yet you have allowed your sentrys to die. Only having 2 forcefields at this point in the game will kill you.

Turtle a little more, force field and split your units better, don't take a 4th when he's sitting on lair tech and 3 bases. You can't trade roachling efficiently without forcefields, don't try.

Quick Comments

	Apth:
	xGKingdelete:	forcefield powa
	mGGAequitas:	Thankyou, I'll work on keeping my sentries alive and forcefielding better :)

[crAzerk]

Long game TvZ help please. This game is 1 hour long so ... if you're going to help analyze this do bear that in mind, and huge thanks in advance.
http://www.sc2sea.com/replays.php?do=viewreplay&id=675

So I'm not looking for any nitpicking of small details (unless it really matters) like oh you didn't inject well oh you didn't re-creep spread etc, (yes i know the first major clash was horrible lol)
(Let's ignore the fact that I could probably have killed him at 20 mins and I had 100 drones)

but I have 2 broad questions which extends to my other games too:

1) How do I kill a Terran in the late game in this situation?
Throughout the game even though our engagements seemed to go 50/50 (sometimes he wins, sometimes i wins), there was never a stage where I felt like 'Yes, I've got this'.
This is even after denying his 4th base multiple times, killing tonnes of his SCVs (no SCV? No problem, MULES yay -_-)
I was doing ling runbys and stuff but as you can see I didn't really have a gameplan in the late game

2) What should my mentality be in the late game?
I don't think i have a clear idea of what I should do in the late game when Terran has OP 3/3 marines which kill everything, besides hoping to land good fungals and baneling smashes. What should my 'game plan' be? My current one is just to absorb hits and counterattack and deny his expansions. Which you see me do repeatedly with my burrowed lings, etc. But it still wasn't enough.


EDIT: On watching again it's rather painful to watch the 20-40 minute period where many times I had double his supply or something and just didn't win.. but as you can see his Marines were pretty hard to handle so... not quite sure how. Better fungals and more banelings?

[Ruski]

Replay: http://www.sc2sea.com/replays.php?do=viewreplay&id=676


Okay so this is a 1v1 ladder game I played earlier. I wasnt quite sure how to submit but give it a shot.

Matchup: VS ( VS )
Map: Cloud Kingdom
Description: I tried to 4 Gate my opponent, saw he was cannoning up his main. Added a robo and made a few Immortals. Destroyed his main Nexus and found out must have made another, scouted out too late found he was going mass voidrays.

Things I want to work on: Macro (not getting supply blocked and using up my money), expand timings and scouting.

[mGGAequitas]

here you go ruski

+ Show +

well first of all when you scout a forge you can be sure that they are doing something weird, so make sure you scout; first your base in case of cannon rush and then the rest of the map incase he is proxying gates/tech or, like he in did in this game, ninja expanding.

the next point is your decision making when you micro your attack, you always target fire the pylons, but cannons actually only have 3/4 of the total health that a pylon does (300 for cannon and 400 for pylon). so when you attack the pylon at the ramp you take a lot more damage than you would have if you had attacked the cannon.
once you are inside you do the same thing, target firing a pylon even though you would need to kill 3 pylons before you'd unpower just 1 cannon.
besides that fact, by attacking the pylon instead of the cannon you make it so more cannons can attack you at the same time, cannons have quite high dps so you really don't want to take too many hits.
building on what i just said, you could have just run around the cannons on the right, kill the cannon that is building and then kill the probes and nexus without even taking damage.

Also don't throw small numbers of units at the cannon, every time you warp in 4 units you just go and suicide them without doing any damage, if you waited for a few more warp in's and then went to attack you would lose a lot less units. you also throw away units when you find one of his ninja expansions, even if there were just cannons you should wait for a bigger army before engaging, also make sure you dont stream in one unit at a time. but if he's army is near the cannons as well you really don't want to engage.

your macro could be improved and you could have taken an earlier expansion (instead of putting the robo down you could expand and then put the robo down). but you had good enough macro to beat this guy just the things i said before

so that's some of my thoughts about this game, i know i'm not the best writer but i hope that it helps

Quick Comments

	xGKingdelete:	where is neg rep gone
	FaDeBadger:

[SLCN.NXZ]

Guys I need help . My Zerg vs Terran is pretty solid vs Marine Tank (I play a ling/infestor style with the occasional incorporation of speedroaches) however last night i played 2 practice games with DaNoSauR who went mech both games.

http://www.sc2sea.com/replays.php?do=viewreplay&id=704

That is the link to the second game (First game was Antiga close spawns which killed me regardless)

Basically I scout him going mech and switch to +1 ranged and +2 carapace over 2-2 (melee-carapace). I pump out a few roaches while mass expanding and fast teching to broods. From there the game becomes a bit weird but DaNo plays a very passive style of mech (no hellion runbies) and I feel like if a player incorporated that into this play, I would just die . (I do make spines at some bases and leave roaches there in case but I'm still worried. Anyways guys it would be so very much appreciated if you could take a look and tell me what I'm doing wrong or right and what things I could incorporate into my play.

Thanks so much

[SLCN.NXZ]

Originally Posted by crAzerk

Long game TvZ help please. This game is 1 hour long so ... if you're going to help analyze this do bear that in mind, and huge thanks in advance.
http://www.sc2sea.com/replays.php?do=viewreplay&id=675

So I'm not looking for any nitpicking of small details (unless it really matters) like oh you didn't inject well oh you didn't re-creep spread etc, (yes i know the first major clash was horrible lol)
(Let's ignore the fact that I could probably have killed him at 20 mins and I had 100 drones)

but I have 2 broad questions which extends to my other games too:

1) How do I kill a Terran in the late game in this situation?
Throughout the game even though our engagements seemed to go 50/50 (sometimes he wins, sometimes i wins), there was never a stage where I felt like 'Yes, I've got this'.
This is even after denying his 4th base multiple times, killing tonnes of his SCVs (no SCV? No problem, MULES yay -_-)
I was doing ling runbys and stuff but as you can see I didn't really have a gameplan in the late game

2) What should my mentality be in the late game?
I don't think i have a clear idea of what I should do in the late game when Terran has OP 3/3 marines which kill everything, besides hoping to land good fungals and baneling smashes. What should my 'game plan' be? My current one is just to absorb hits and counterattack and deny his expansions. Which you see me do repeatedly with my burrowed lings, etc. But it still wasn't enough.


EDIT: On watching again it's rather painful to watch the 20-40 minute period where many times I had double his supply or something and just didn't win.. but as you can see his Marines were pretty hard to handle so... not quite sure how. Better fungals and more banelings?

You're late game goal in every match-up (generally) should be getting to infestor broodlord (corruptor). Marines once they get 3-3 at times can be ridiculously strong but off you're massive income just switching to broods much earlier is just going to pay huge dividends for you . Will edit this when I have more insight.

OK here's my full analysis:

Firstly, I'm gonna keep this broad, if you're opening is poorly optimized I won't touch on that

1. You get up a ridiculous drone count early on, this is good for when you transfer to you're third but you HAVE to be weary of the scary 2 base pushes, Just remember you probably shouldn't drone past 50 on 2 bases .

2. He moves out with 2 medivacs with 16 marines, you try and fight this but due to you're absurd drone count you lose all you're lings and almost all you're mutas. This puts you at a massive disadvantage going into the midgame, otherwise it looks good so far.

3. Extending on that point I recommend you don't really harrass with mutas TOO much, I know PiG advises this and i agree, you should always prioritise you're macro over messing over his. Mutalisk harrass can often throw a terran really off his game but a lot of time it means you'll miss several injects and forget you're macro (everyone has trouble with this). If you go and harrass ALWAYS make sure you are prioritising you're macro, you'll find that you're army will just be so much bigger than before .

4. You switch to infestation pit a little TOO quick for my liking. I think you may have done this just because you lost all you're mutas earlier on but id recommend getting 16 mutas (alive :P) then once you reach that number add on the infestation pit and hive. Use these mutas to let you mass expand everywhere. You want to use the mutas as a stepping stone into the lategame by giving you the time to tech and take lots of bases.

5. After adding the infestation pit you switch back into muta production, this is the incorrect choice. once you start that infestation pit stop all muta production and use the gas you bank up on instead infestors and hive (banelings and a few infestors if he's pushing). Obviously you got the infestation pit a bit early but once you get it you should not be making more mutas.

6. Like you said, you're inital engagement goes terrible for you, not much to say about that but if you want to catch a terran unsieged make sure you're entire army is there and ready to go. Otherwise wait until you know you can crush the push, or if hes reaching that point where his army won't die to muta/ling/bane you should have infestors and hive out or coming very soon and you basically just want to delay the push long enough for broods to come out.

7. You do a very nice runby while teching to hive and taking out his 3rd base however due to you're excess production of mutas you're left in a pretty terrible position where you don;t have an army to take out his push. Also you overdroned after his first push, IMO you should never go over 80 drones in this matchup when going for a muta style vs marine tank.

8. In the fight you get lucky because he messed up but really he should've won the game with that push. Also remember that you don't want to be using infested terrans when you have mutas. Mutas will accomplish the same thing (most of the time) in sniping tanks so don't waste you're infestor energy on this.

9. Saturation. 90ish drones is bad in general but having 60 of them on you're nearly mined out nat and main is definitely not where you want them to be. Whenever you hear the mineral field depleted or just see lots of drones at 1 base always spread them out to a base. For example the base at the bottom of the map in this case.

10. You use runbies very effectively but again focus on you're macro and transitioning to broods more than this. Also in the fights the best way to do it is basically a-move lings grab the mutas and shift click a bunch of tanks then control your banes for the rest of the fight. The muta part can be tricky but you want to get good at it to win fights vs decently sized terran armies.

11. You're fights go terribly generally, with you're army you either catch him unsieged or you never fight him at all until you have built up an army that will destroy his. Essentially you end up trading armies over and over except each trade goes a little better to him then you so he can stay in the game despite his poor econ. A good way to take more bases is whenever you trade armies with a terran, take a base. This means that you end up with a really strong econ for you're broodlord transition.

12. You have a really nice engagement at 27:30 but then you mess it up by not killing the tanks with mutas, and lose lots of you're army to a small group of well upgraded marines.

13. I'm going to keep watching this replay but really you should've switched to broodlords much earlier, generally the LATEST you want them to come up is around 20 mins in a normal game. You stay on you're midgame army for too long, use that to get bases and stall for broodlords, not the end all be all composition that you will use all game.

14. That last fight got you into this weird position where 3-3 marines and medivacs off only 80 supply are in a 150 supply zerg's base killing everything. Again this due to you're engagement micro, when you fight a terran army you better be damn sure you're gonna win that fight or at least trade well enough that he has to retreat.

15. You get an ultralisk cavern after you clean up the marines, CRAZERK Y U NO BROODLORD, basically get that ultra den once you have you're broodlord army up, you want to remax on ultras/ling/bane/infestor if he has enough vikings/thors to take out your broodlord transition (Sometimes the correct choice is to remax on an infestor/ling/ bling army vs ghost heavy comps, although this may not apply after the patch. Also sometimes you want to stcik with the broodlord army after you lose it but normally if you lose all of it you want to tech switch.)

16. When he initially goes to the bottom base with his marine medivac the correct decision was to counter, but waiting for him to arrive and then countering put you way behind essentially leaving you with no income letting him claw back into the game through efficient fights. Instead have the watch towers controlled so you can immediately counter the moment he tries to head down there.

17. At this point you're pretty much dead with both of you at around 50 supply, except him having income and a stronger standing army. This game should've been yours multiple times but just those few key mistakes messed you over and allowed his efficient army to take the game.

18. SOMEHOW you get a force of ling bane infestor up, at this point you want to be retaking the towers and either focusing on taking out his last mining base or defending yours that are coming up now. Leaving you're army idle at your mined out natural, while defending you're tech is just going to end up with him winning the econ game.

19. At 48 mins you run a bunch of infestors up to his base, where he has only marines and medivacs. you decide to run around and throw some Infested terrans. NOOOOOOOOOOOOO. THERE'S ONLY MARINES WITH NO DETECTION UNBURROW FUNGAL BURROW DAT ARMY. If you just attacked with you're army and fungaled his this game would be over HE HAS LITERALLY ZERO TANKS you take out his medivacs with fungals and you're ling bane can take out his marines pretty handily, otherwise the mass medivac will make them too efficent in these small numbers.

20. I'm gonna stop watching at this point as its reached a low enough econ game that his marines won't ever die. Essentially transition to broods faster and work on you're engagements over the little runbies and the like. (although the runbies are good but you're focusing too much on the little things rather than you're overarching goals

Sorry for the wall of text but i hope this helps

Quick Comments

	xGKingdelete:	yay
	crAzerk: