[Snx`Azz]

Originally Posted by crAzerk

I like what del is saying, as currently it seems to be getting abit stretched with the merged teams and all.

However, if we do split up according to these tiers, I think we should scrap the FA Cup otherwise our resources will really be stretched.

I like what del is saying, however I think we should keep the FA Cup.

Quick Comments

deL:

[deL]

Originally Posted by TARossi

The only problem i can foresee is that there is too much content, so maybe we should showcase a different league each week? or disable the community like we did last time? (as a suggestion if the idea is approved)

Subforums should help a bit with the content management. Also, if we get the appropriate admins to post their own rough recap or at least results in a private forum and designate one staff member to consolidate and publish all of the results as a weekly 'clan league recap' it should help streamline the information for the leagues.

And by disable the community do you mean while the SEACL is running put the COs and other sc2sea events on hiatus?

[NvRossi]

^ yea thats what i meant

[Cute]

Originally Posted by TAdeL

Subforums should help a bit with the content management. Also, if we get the appropriate admins to post their own rough recap or at least results in a private forum and designate one staff member to consolidate and publish all of the results as a weekly 'clan league recap' it should help streamline the information for the leagues.

And by disable the community do you mean while the SEACL is running put the COs and other sc2sea events on hiatus?

I definitely think CO's and the like should be put on hold during this, or the logistics of running everything is going to go to shit. There is only so much manpower available.

Weekly recaps sound fun. Everyone loves reading about their own clan. Maybe split it off into four (or how ever many divisions there are) separate columns, which could then be aggregated in one huge ass post. Interviews with players/managers would be fantastic. I'd love to know more about the people playing the game.

idk rambling

[mGMUSE]

not being elitist but anyone else feel that the 'pro league' should be the only league that has prizes? having cash prizes for lower leagues just suggests smurfing all over..

league promotion as an incentive for the lower clans should be good enough, no?

[Maynarde]

Cash prizes at the moment (from what I understand) is only for Pro Teams and what deL has to referred to as the "Expert League". The others will only have the goal to advance to higher levels of competition. The difference in prize between "Expert League" or "Tier 2" versus "Pro League" or "Tier 1" will most likely be substantial as well.

[Frogmite]

Actually DeL's post and the OP are almost the same, so i like DeL's idea (biased opinion )
We wanted to separate pro teams and clans since the begining but i was alone with Benji to defend this idea .
Different format for teams and clans are also mandatory.

We will speak with other admins concerning this format, as it was already rejected by community a bit earlier in this thread.

We also wanted to split the pro league in two different days, just so more people can watch top division games.

EDIT: As teams already registered for the current format, suggestions will be taken in account for next seasons.

[dippa]

Please keep the "Expert League" on a Friday as that means I'll actually be able to play (******* new work hours, grumble grumble)

FA Cup is nice, but from experience I strongly recommend it be scrapped - there's enough on admins' plates as it is, and you need to be absolutely sure that you won't get overloaded already with several divisions.

Limit the stress and make sure the multi-tier league runs perfectly first.

[aLtShortizz]

Del's idea is fine, separating a Pro league and creating a format for them seems fair enoough.

But i believe each player can only play in ONE league, if ur playing in the top tier, u prolly shldnt be allowed in the Clan league.

But thats just me.

[Eddie]

I like it deL!

I want to see all levels of players playing with their clan mates. Just as important as teams to our community imo. Having both would be awesome!

[dippa]

Originally Posted by aLtShortizz

Del's idea is fine, separating a Pro league and creating a format for them seems fair enoough.

But i believe each player can only play in ONE league, if ur playing in the top tier, u prolly shldnt be allowed in the Clan league.

But thats just me.

i think that's a bit much if the proposal to postpone all CO's and other events during the season goes ahead

the more events the merrier

[TADivinity]

Originally Posted by aLtShortizz

Del's idea is fine, separating a Pro league and creating a format for them seems fair enoough.

But i believe each player can only play in ONE league, if ur playing in the top tier, u prolly shldnt be allowed in the Clan league.

But thats just me.

Sorry, but this (not allowing them to play both) completely defeats the purpose, and then we are back to square one.

But yes, I too really like deLs idea of doing two different top leagues - that way we can see who the best all-round 'Clan' is - as well as which is the best 'Team'.

This merging business is silly imo. They are individual teams, they should have the chance to show they are the best without having to say it was a shared effort.

Quick Comments

x5.Revenant:

Catching deL's point spot on~

[NvRossi]

Originally Posted by aLtShortizz

Del's idea is fine, separating a Pro league and creating a format for them seems fair enoough.

But i believe each player can only play in ONE league, if ur playing in the top tier, u prolly shldnt be allowed in the Clan league.

But thats just me.

I dont really understand this at all? why? and gratz on NA gm :P

[nirvAnA]

deL brings up alot of valid points, and i'll like to address some of them. this will be my final post in this thread beacuse the format is already out, its time to tweak just the minor parts and deL's suggestions is pretty much identical to what we have already decided for the league, its what people have been asking for and its what we have already implemented. The two notable differences in his format are 1) Merger of xGking+sqlt 2) separation of pro league/clans

Originally Posted by Revenant

Totally agree with the Pro League format. With inFi's lineup being scarce(RedArchon&Indy participating under MiTH, TargA being in Norway), the most possible scenario for us is to have 3-4 players max because of the commitments all of our players have(See TCL4: There's almost always >3 aMSI players having to play). With three sets of Bo5s, it would make teams with smaller rosters be able to compete.

To Revenant:

Under deL's format, inFi will be classified under Tier 2 because inFi, aLt and SPR are considered "social clans" and not "sponsored teams". Meaning your prize pool will be less than half the original league's prize pool and the Tier 2 format as suggested by deL is 7xBo3 sets. So you need 7 players now instead of 5 and it makes it even harder for you guys to participate.

It also opens up the question - what defines a sponsored clan? Why not inFi in tier 1? Since they obviously have the talent with TargA, iceiceice, Rev, Muse and Roz to be right at the top. At the moment in SEA I only know of ONE player who gets a salary every month. Everyone else is sponsored by equipment / flight tickets and then again, for some teams its just ONE or TWO of the players in the whole team, not everyone. Next, following deLs definition of sponsored teams, glade and tguns team would instead play alongside the Tier 2 teams as a "social clan" which is again not what we want. If glades team gets to play in tier 1 why not inFis - they both have no sponsors? Thats why it doesn't make sense to go strictly by definition of "sponsored" or "not sponsored" - at the end of the day we want to showcase a league full of SEA's best players like YoonYJ and Soulman up there with the best.

Also, "sponsorship" is a grey area open for debate, what constitutes sponsorship? I don't want to sugar coat anything - alot of the "sponsored teams" don't have the budget to send their players OVERSEAS, look at IEM for instance with the whole top 10 forgoing the opportunity to Kiev for IEM - firstly because the air ticket is really expensive but more understandably because eSports is still undeveloped here and big sponsors haven't stepped in. And thats what we have to do, instead of the separation of the prestige, skill and resources, make the most competitive league, attract more viewers and sponsors and encourage players and teams to grow and I think splitting up the talent/viewers/prestige of the league by separating the "pro teams" and "social clans + glade" in another is a step in the wrong direction which will hinder that growth.

To deL:

Separation of pro league / clans - along with the reasons in the above paragraphs, it will be hard to split resources (prize pool / manpower admin/casting are already stretched VERY thin now as it is). Neither do i want to split viewership. People want to watch GSL, MLG, dreamhack, other events too, not just SEA events every day. I think its way too ambitious at the moment to have the league so split up that much in resources. It will put alot of strain on the admins (logistic organisational nightmare) and casters and a format of 3xBo5 isn't very appealing to spectators.

I think this format could work very well in the future, once the scene is developed and all the best players like glade, tgun, ice, targa etc are picked up by teams. Only then can we have what we truly call a "pro league" with all the best players and an "amateur league" with the clans and up and coming players. Wouldn't that be the purpose of the separation? Right now the the "pro teams" dont really have all the "pros" and the separation to exclude all the other top players and create another division just because they are not "officially sponsored" doesn't make sense to me.

xGking + SQLT Alliance - The ONLY team that is having alliance at this point is SQLT + xGking. MiTH and inFi are separate teams now as are all the other Tier 1 teams. I agree it does not make sense at all to combine SQLT+xGking other then the fact they lack the numbers. Since SQLT did not want to be represented as an independent team, I personally would have preferred if sensei/yang to have gone back to TA and HuT to xgking/ngen and ninja to alt. Because those are their original clans it makes so much more sense that way, and from the SQLT sponsor's perspective, they are now represented by 3 teams not just one and have a 3/8 chance to have a member from a winning team compared to a 1/8 chance (assuming all teams have an equal chance for simplicity) so that shouldn't be the issue.

So i left it up to the players to decide who they wanted to play for. I said "let infeza the manager decide" cause i assumed he would discuss with his players before giving me his answer of their collective thoughts(whether he did or not i have no idea). And infeza's answer was what i assumed to be the players choice and that was to play for xgking. So yes this issue can be looked at more, but apart from this team they are the only "unnatural alliance" in this league!!!

"SEACL name" - Just a technicality, called SEACL cause its easier, its already been renamed the SEA xxx League theres no mention of team/clan.

Conclusion + some changes: League should can be spread over 2 days, anything more would be too demanding. May/froggy and i discussed it and decided Tier1 and tier 2 to have 10 teams each instead of the original 8. xGking + SQLT issue may need to be looked at further.

We have listened and implemented alot of the good suggestions in the SEACL threads. First we started with a Bo5 format. People complained saying it should be smaller to accommodate teams with 3-4 players. So we switched to a TCL with 4 players. inF, TAscarecrow and others complained saying that it doesn't reward depth and its not like the typical team/clan competition. So we switched back to Bo5 and now inFiRev is saying his team is too small. TAdeL comes out with a suggestion which kinda tries to accommodate all teams by separating pro teams/clans but we feel it will do more harm then good to split up the viewers/prize pool and prestige of the leagues.

The point i am getting at is its impossible to please everyone, even clan mates have different opinions from each other. I make changes and Xxx says this. I made Xxx suggested change and yyy says this. Even now i'm getting alot of heat and losing friends from teams who think they should have been in Tier 1 because they think their team is better then the others i have invited. Yes this is a thankless job and i am reminded about it every day.

I'd say we can still fix minor details but lets not spend anymore time on the major format. This has taken alot of time already (i really hate writing essays, i mean with all this time i could have competed my WCG/Australia blogs which i've been really wanting to finish *sigh*) and its time to move on and finalise everything. Let the season run its course and we will collect feedback at the end once we have actually experienced it. The time management required by the admins/casters, the players feedback from their matchday format, the amount of viewers for each league etc we will get a much better understanding of all of these factors after going through it and we can always make the appropriate adjustments for next season.

SEACL#1, SEASL#1 had lots of debate with everyone thinking their format was the best one too. In the end it went smoothly and everyone liked it, and i have no doubt this season's SEACL will follow the same too. With that being said lets focus on setting up the league, making the wikipages, schedules, getting the admin roles sorted out, managing the team rosters, sorting the divisions etc. There is still alot of work ahead of us and I hope everyone helps to play a part in making this a big success so we have many more SEACLs to look forward too.

Quick Comments

TAriiChard:

agree with most of it especially the "xGking + SQLT Alliance". new name = SEA TCL?

[syfMiley]

I actually kinda like deL

[TargA]

i agree with muse and del, remove the "pro" teams and only allow clans.

Quick Comments

	Zealo:	wrong thread, very late
	Fourby:	balance for noob rep
	TAriiChard:	FXOTArga

[deL]

I just thought the point of hosting a SEA clanleague is because you get to cheer for clans and it has a very social atmosphere regardless of the players who are playing or not, and regardless of the format being 3 bo5s or 5 bo3s. If we just want to turn it into a 'showcase top SEA players' with merged and made-up teams we might as well just run a SEASL. I think if you look at who voted for a SEASL in the original thread and the reasons posted, they would be similar (if not the same people posting) to posts asking for separation of the clans and teams now.

[NvRossi]

How about listing Alt as a team and as a Clan if they feel underrepresented, as well as maybe allowing flash to be represented by rev muse roz or something?

allowing full representation of every clan and team in SEA in a strongly competitive environment

Quick Comments

x5.Revenant:

It seems like quite a good compromise and allows both teams AND clans to be represented~ It's worth considering.

[deL]

Yah I guess top level could be clans looking for sponsorship too which I guess would include aLt and maybe inFi (and they said they like that format better) so that could work out well.

[NvPinder]

Wait, there's no playoffs of tier 1?

Seriously?

Like not even a finals between top 2?

Wow.

Quick Comments

nirvAnA:

all i do is complain, i also can't be bothered to read.