[Roz]

We've (inFi) said many times before the start of the season that we didn't want to participate in SEACL because of the following reasons:

1. Redarchon and JazBas are playing for other teams already
2. The remaining members on the clan have other commitments such as school, army, and work. TargA will be in Europe and won’t have internet for a while even when he goes back to Aus. Meaning we will not be able to play all the time on the given time and some will even be late most of the time.
3. With all the above, it will be a poor representation of our clan as there is a lack of depth and people to choose from.

The admins at the time guaranteed us that they will be working with other teams to reschedule our games so that we will be able to play properly. Since the admins really tried to help us out with this and wanted us to participate, we decided to join as it would be nice to show some support for sc2sea as well. On top of that, it would also be fun for us to be playing in this.

However, this week we are playing against xGKing and we're told that Benji refused to have any reschedules so we will just have to play at the scheduled time or forfeit. I understand that that's how most tournaments are ran but we really only played because of what we were guaranteed in the beginning.

I’m not trying to cry or anything here, just want to clarify that we don’t delay our games on purpose. We had previous games postponed mainly because the other teams didn’t show or wasn’t able to play and not because we didn’t show up. There are days where we can play and we will know by the beginning of every week but we can’t guarantee that the scheduled time is 1 of those days. That’s why we only chose to play after reaching an agreement with the admins to start but I don't know why that's not the case anymore. We were also unable to submit our lineup because if we don’t even know whether or not there will be a reschedule and which day it would be if there was 1, we don’t know who can play and who can’t….

Quick Comments

	syfChadMann:	I hope Benji can find the time to play the game -_-
	EveParachute:
	x5.Revenant:
	nGenLight:	Clevery disguised shot at INDY, LOL

[alwaysdryToT]

HotlipsToT 2 ：1 MiTHjump

FoJJToT 2:0 indy ( use sub for Fah)

jerryToT 2:0 Maya

cjcToT 0:2 GviewHadez

FlashToT 2:0 RedArchon
ToT 5:1Mith

[ToR.Arnor]

Originally Posted by alwaysdryToT

HotlipsToT 2 ：1 MiTHjump

FoJJToT 2:0 indy ( use sub for Fah)

jerryToT 2:0 Maya

cjcToT 0:2 GviewHadez

FlashToT 2:0 RedArchon
ToT 5:1Mith

nice work buddy!

ToT fighting!

Quick Comments

alwaysdryToT:

[JaFF]

Eve vs SPR 2-4

EveWest 1 - 2 SungInSPR
EveStrafe 2 - 0 MasterSPR
EveYekke 2 - 0 iStSPR
EveMaltiso 0 - 2 BalloonSPR
EveVendetta 1 - 2 ryoomakSPR *EveVendetta was subbed in instead of EveTechtron

Quick Comments

	wolf:	geegee SPR good fight !
	ToR.Arnor:	watched the final set, Balloon so Gosu ^_^
	Xenomorph:	ty for posting results :)

[aLtMrFool]

Don't mean to revive a flame that is a little simmered but here's what I think about the event.

People are trying to fight for 'fairness' because most people thought that there's an unwritten rule that you should try to be as accomodating to any rescheduling of games in SEAL because as we all know, only a small number of people in the SEA scene are NOT full-time gamers and play at our own leisure time.

In most other tournaments, yes- if you do not appear on the svheduled time, consider it your loss. But I'm sure in these tournaments, their invited teams are mostly pro-gamers who play the game full-time! And all of them playing this game full-time, having prepared for their matches and putting in a lot of effort into smashing faces get no-showed, they'll probably feel like they deserve a walk-over for wasted effort.

Now, to our SEA scene, am I right to say that the only team that has a roster that plays starcraft 2 full-time is xGking? Benji is definitely not wrong if he feels that all his players have put in a lot of effort for the games against infi expecting tough matches only to get no-showed and now they have to prepare against 2 teams in the next week, probably decreasing their chance of winning both sets.

However, infi, as well as many other teams in SEAL, are not full-time gamers. At best, only a fraction of their roster plays full-time and whilst they may include really good players, they don't play all the time. Take for example iceiceice. His schedule is roughly that's of 2days 24 hours work( he can't play during this time even if he wanted to, bound by the SAF) and next 2 days available to play. That is his national service obligation and no one can fault him for that and that he can't show up every tuesday. I only cite this example because so far, people have been quite understanding to allow all the rescheduling to take place. Of course, benji (manages a full-time gaming team) and not being from a country with compulsory national service will not be able to relate to something like that. No fault in that, and I'm sure most of you will agree esp if you don't come from a country like that. Or, assume you're trying to work and you assume your client wants to work with you too (thinking he works full time as well) but he doesn't show up. You'd be slightly pissed too.

Now, there's two problems.

One- infi needs a rescheduling because they can't make the timing and they're unhappy that people are not accomodating to their requests when they've only agreed to play if they get to play at times they can. They're unhappy because they feel xGking's people should understand the tightness of their schedule.

Two( I'm gonna assume that benji made the decision he made alone without consulting his players here from what I've heard/know about benji. Correct me if I'm wrong here.) - Benji, understandably, not being able to relate to infi's need and requests and ( definitely even more understandably ) thinking about his players having to prepare a shit-ton more for 2 sets of games, feels pressured to win ( being the premiere team in SEA who play full-time ), made the decision of having the walkover.

Both teams have their share of the story and now here's what I feel could make things better.

1- Targa should apologise for lashing out. I'm quite positive that he made that post because of prior misunderstandings / misconceptions / what he thinks about benji that made him awfully angry with a decision of walkover that if put into benji's shoes, is understandable.

2- Benji, being a manager of players, should consult the 5 players of the day as to whether they're ok with rescheduling of these matches knowing that they have more matches to come in the coming week. If you're thinking for their sake, why not ask them how they feel? If they say its fine, we understand that the opponent team is busy and have their problems of fielding a team / can understand that such things do happen when one team has a roster playing full-time while the other don't, why not do a rescheduling if your players truly want to play and duke it out with another top team in SEA? If, however, the players feel that they have other commitments like a busy tournament schedule in the near future and feel that they cannot lose those tournaments because infi wants to re-schedule and are genuine about it. Walkover SHOULD be awarded.

Of course, those are just my views and I do share the same sentiments with most people here that there should be a rescheduling for the matches done if possible - not walkover as it is the easier way to overcome this problem. The rules are there for a reason and I'm sure the admins will want all problems to be solved in a more amicable and most friendly/honourable manner and only enforce the rules when things get truly out of hand. As it is now, before the problem escalates more, maybe xGking and infi can come to a more common understanding and hope to solve the issue together instead of metting out a decision that may upset the community as a whole. Whilst most people may lash out at benji, I must say you have to put yourself in his shoes that he is managing a full-time pro-team and has his own considerations that may differ from most of us players who are insanely casual in comparison to light/mafia etc. Though, I do not agree with benji's decision and felt that he has failed to take into account infi's side of the story. You might've taken it the wrong way because considering that you know that you have made some snide comments/ unnecessary comments /hurtful remarks over the course of your casting and offended some people during your course of dealing with them, people are more prone to phrase their words in a way that may seem unwittingly hateful and not having put themselves in your shoes. But believe me, they're just trying to let this saga have a better conclusion for the better of everyone. I urge you, in this case, to try to also put yourself in the shoes of people like ice/roz ( and for them and the rest to do the same of putting themselves in your shoes ) and consider what you will want you to have done if you have obligations like compulsory national service. Also, ask your players for opinions and not make your decisions all alone, you might get some better insights.

With that, I end it here. And I hope I do not derail this thread and turn it into a flamefest. I'm just trying my best to sum up the story and show both sides of the story hoping for a better ending than what is happening now. And also, what I've written is simply my perception and if there's any glaring mistakes, please do correct and ill fix it up.

Quick Comments

TAEdgE:

[nGenLight]

As the players(myself, Jaz etc) are quite friendly with the Infi guys, there wouldn't be a shadow of a doubt that we would have accepted a rescheduling. However Benji has no affiliation with Infi and has no obligation to agree with that favour.

I personally do sympathize with Infi in there problem with fielding a roster worth of player as Roz's post has outlined. However, Benji taking a hard stance on the rule shouldn not be subject to criticism.

Quick Comments

Frogmite:

[syfChadMann]

Problem is.. if/when xG need a reschedule - teams won't accept it because of this precedent that xG have set. Better hope your team can make all their games....

[nGenLight]

I believe Benji has considered that before his decision.

Note that the delaying of games was already getting on peoples nervous (not trying to place blame, just facts).

[NvJazBas]

Originally Posted by TAChadMann

Problem is.. if/when xG need a reschedule - teams won't accept it because of this precedent that xG have set. Better hope your team can make all their games....

I think you and someothers are not getting the reason of Benji's rejection.

As Light said, inFi already had some matches that are delayed way too much (not trying to blame at all! just stating fact) and the reason Benji refused to reschedule is to avoid this happening.

vs SPR, we did reschedule games and few others too. We had a reasonable reason and the way you are speaking seems like coming from just hatred towards the situation. Yes it would be great if we can play the games, but there was good enough reason to refuse in Benji's pov.

ps. As I say again, I'm not trying to blame inFi at all with delaying matches.

[sooie]

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