[Frogmite]

Originally Posted by Maynarde

Dude, I love you, but this is exactly what I don't wanna see anymore here.

Yeah sorry, temptation was too high for me

[TAriiChard]

More importantly, why didn't the video feature this?

Quick Comments

	Frogmite:	lol
	Maynarde:	LOL
	VoxMSI.Rogue:	bahahahhahahaha
	inFeZa:	i love the determination on pinder's face
	Loach:	rofl thats amazing

[nirvAnA]

Originally Posted by |Erasmus|

That's not it all... it's not that I'm saying he's wrong because he doesn't share my opinion. I'm saying his opinion is not the only one, and saying Benji has broken -his- rules about how to promote himself/his team, is just saying that and should in no way apply that Benji is categorically wrong.

Let the public decide with their subscriptions/followings who is promoting themselves better, not Dox's opinion. Not so hard, is it?

To be fair to benji, people don't know this but he did ask me first if he could post his video as news, and generally he always does that when hes about to make a news post. I thought many people would like the video (turns out pple liked it even more than expected) so i said yea its news worthy and told him to go ahead. His kingston review not too long ago wasn't "news worthy" and rightfully went under "General Forums", in fact he didn't even ask me if it could go under news, he knew it himself. I guess the issue was him using the news post to promote his stuff. Well I knew he would probably promote his team/sponsors like he normally does and thats usually fine with me cause whenever he does that i just scroll down and ignore it when the sponsor part comes up (sorry benji!) and i thought people would just do the same if they weren't interested so i saw it as no harm to give his team a bit of exposure because after all he did make an enjoyable video for most people and I would rather see video + some sponsor promotion rather then no video at all, as having some sponsor promotion naturally gives the incentive to continue to produce more content. Kinda like on niche sites its common to let guest writers (who clearly just want traffic or a backlink for SEO for their own site) to post some content of value and in return they get to plug "to find out more abou Y go too...X" at the bottom of their post. Whereas if you don't allow that there would be a lot less or even no content coming from these "guest writers" that readers will be missing out on.

I also have to state that dox is a rarity in this world, there is no else in this community that even comes close to Dox in terms of his selfless dedication, thats why he is such a hero to us all. Its hard to meet Dox's standards because every thing he touches is done so exceptionally well. Most of us fall short, and on top of that, people like benji (xgking), arnor(CH), mayo(Tte) and even me (tgm) have some undeniable self-interests vested here and there whereas Dox has absolutely no agenda. But I feel we all contribute to esports and its development in some way, just not in the same pure form as Dox. And I guess it also depends on our PR skills and how we convey the message, e.g arnor's earlier post and benji's basically accomplished the same thing but produced totally different vibes. Basically all of us have good PR skills except Benji (this can be improved ben! ) but as Sensei/ TA have found out when they met Benji IRL at ACL, "he was actually just a nice normal guy" and their attitude towards him drastically changed for the better!

Anyway, hope both sides have a clearer picture now after I've shared this perspective. As everyone said, we would all love to see the both of you working together and not against each other. IMO theres some deeper issues that have to be resolved between you two privately that is causing this tension. As loach has said this is really something over "nothing" and if those issues aren't resolved its just gonna keep popping up like a stubborn floating poop whenever the slightest disagreement appears.

Now lets hug! (pics stolen from Dot89's fb.)

Quick Comments

	cRSenSei:	Nobody will ever live up to Dox!
	|Erasmus|:	I love both of these guys. They both support esports, even if they go about it differently.
	x5_dot:	hahaha gosh you're quick!! :D
	Nemo:

[cRSenSei]

I am smiling way too hard in that photo while holding a guy...

Quick Comments

	TAriiChard:	LOL! While telling viewers to call you!
	VoxMSI.Rogue:	rofl. no homo

[iM tgun]

Titty Sprinkles.

[TAEdarus]

Originally Posted by Frogmite

Actually there is a video but i'll publish it when i get 100 followers on my twitter

This is why I love you.

[syfMiley]

Originally Posted by SQLTt.SenSei

I am smiling way too hard in that photo while holding a guy...

Wait till you hold me ;]

[nGenLight]

The way you conduct yourself, and the things you say goes a long way in demonstrating the image of yourself in the eyes of others.

I'm well aware that Benji does tend to excessively promote Xeria/Kingston/SEA Esports/Himself as a caster, and has made no attempt at hiding this - which obviously have rubbed people the wrong way and can easily be intepreted as selfish. But let's not forget the positive affect his promotion has on SEA Esports in general. Therefore, I tend to avoid the focus on the label "doing everything for the community/doing things for himself". Nobody really gets anything significantly tangible in promoting SEA E-Sports, and I tend to say the people who are most involved actually lose out on alot of money (Dox even payed for our pizzas man, enough said). The real reward is really seeing E-Sports in SEA takeoff, and perhaps, wanting to have your community status/reputation (epeen) grow to Nirvana-esque levels. Ironically, it is actually easier to achieve this when you don't focus on this at all (People generally like selfless people - ), or do it very subtly ( - or people who appear to be). You do it like Benji, you going to get backlash, because it is going to appear as shameless self-promotion moreso than promoting E-Sports in SEA (just look at the SEA weeklies as an example).

Derek, as someone whos been playing, promoting, organising, and being generally involved in the scene for much longer. You are truly a guru and a living legend, and noone should ever understate what you have done for the community, hence you probably have the highest credibility in sc2sea as of this moment (even if you didn't even try/care, you are there buddy), and the effect your opinions/comments are enormous. Even though I was generally agreeable to what you were saying, you did come off abit strong in your initial posts, hence why I felt the response by Benji was understandable. Albeit I don't know much about the private conversations between the two of you, but having a person with "god-like status" in the community raining negativity on your content is rather disheartening. Cut the new guy a little slack, put a little sugar in your mug of teachings . Just imagine you and Benji switched postions in this thread, Benji would have been slaughtered.

I have to say, I am someone who generally cares alot about reputation(although alot less now) and I know how to achieve this in my own way if I wanted to, by delivering quality posts, being honest and sincere. Oh and by being on the good books of the biggest names in SEA. EDIT: And the edit button.

Quick Comments

	Nemo:	That type of post sure deservelly raise your reputation :) Agrred on all
	Frogmite:	benji is a nice buddy
	Dox:	i miss you rayray <3 <3
	TAriiChard:
	Zepph:
	iM yang:	you're amazing rayray, never change
	Maynarde:	Well said
	VoxMSI.Rogue:

[Strafe]

Oh gawd Iaguz got a big f'ng manly neckbeard growing!

As for the Benji blabla debate I just want to add that when he is casting he does tend to overly favor xKing players to the point where xKing player does a funky 1 base strat it's brilliant! But Team X player does 1 base strat it's a cheesy fail strat that doesn't deserve to win. It's fine to promote your own team, to root for your own team, but when casting please interpret strats/action objectively.

That being said; your effort for esports is appreciated and you do not need to defend yourself. Even if you did everything for personal gain that is absolutely fine as long as you provide a great service to the community who are we to complain that you gain out of it? Nobody asks you to do charity work and everyone notices your hard work when you are always available for castings etc. How you want to promote your twitter is also up to you obviously, but not releasing x until you hit x is really lame and would actually not make me sign up. I'm all for attention whoring and gathering a following, I just do not think that is the most effective way to do it. Just my two cents on that one as well.

Quick Comments

	NvRossi:	agreed
	ROOT`iaguz:	you better believe it son.
	nGenLight:	agreed with TARossi
	Nemo:	Great post !
	TAriiChard:
	Champi:	i dont know u but i like your opinion, lets be friends
	Fourby:

[FaDeKerrigan]

Thanks for the coverage Benji. Cheers!

[simon]

His xgking bias is the least of his casting worries tbh.

Quick Comments

	TAkrunch:
	ToR.Arnor:	doesnt help in the slightest, please take your immaturity elsewhere
	Imperial:

[Champi]

Skyrim belongs to the nords!!!!

[inFeZa]

Originally Posted by nirvAnA

To be fair to benji, people don't know this but he did ask me first if he could post his video as news, and generally he always does that when hes about to make a news post. I thought many people would like the video (turns out pple liked it even more than expected) so i said yea its news worthy and told him to go ahead.[/IMG][/center]

by all means you can put my video as featured T_T

[Benji]

Just a quick update, but I will be releasing part 2 when i finish creating it regardless of followers. Incase people missed Chris' competition on Page 3, go back and read that for sure

Part 2 is taking some time compared to Part 1 as when I created Part 1, I had a free day to just sit there and do it, since then i've been tied up with work, SGL organizing and casting, making it hard to complete it quickly (Work has been done on it). I'll try get it rendered and maybe uploaded tonight, but I am casting alt vs infi, and I can't render or upload whilst streaming.

Quick Comments

x5.Revenant:

Ohyeahhhhhhhh

[simon]

excuse me arnor? strafe was saying how he "overly favours" xgking members and i merely pointed out that it should be the least of his worries if we are breaking down his casting style. There seems to be far to many people with the same sort of sanctimonious attitude as yourself on this site.

would you have me instead be dishonest and elivate benji to god status? heaven forbid we are honest around here whilst not being overly offensive which i dont think i was.

[ToR.Arnor]

Originally Posted by simon

excuse me arnor? strafe was saying how he "overly favours" xgking members and i merely pointed out that it should be the least of his worries if we are breaking down his casting style. There seems to be far to many people with the same sort of sanctimonious attitude as yourself on this site.

would you have me instead be dishonest and elivate benji to god status? heaven forbid we are honest around here whilst not being overly offensive which i dont think i was.

I would have you be constructive with your criticism rather than adding a comment which contributes nothing to the conversation, you are certainly entitled to your opinion but try mention ways which you believe a person can improve or what are his other problems (give your argument some weight yo) rather than just throwing in a cliche.

Quick Comments

	VB_WhiplashJC:
	FvRphoneheha:	"Benji, you should do this...", rather than "lol benji bad"
	Nemo:	Exactly
	Imperial:	complete idiot

[simon]

differing philosophies.


see how that was short yet succint enough to get my message across that i disagree. not everything must be an essay and its certainly not my job to coach benji on casting.

fortunately you only affect my reputation points and not my entire sc2sea forum experience.

Quick Comments

nGenLight:

Fortunately not everyone on the forum posts like you do =]

[FvRphoneheha]

simon, I think Arnor was just making the point that it's better to offer constructive criticism, aka. give benji advice on how to improve if you think he should, not just "improve bro". Pretty easy to voice an opinion, especially on the net. It's nicer if the opinion is also helpful .

Though if it's as you say, and your philosophy is simply that flaws must be pointed out without tips of improvement, well then I guess it's as you say a differing of philosophies.

Quick Comments

simon:

:o

[x5.Revenant]

Originally Posted by simon

differing philosophies.


see how that was short yet succint enough to get my message across that i disagree. not everything must be an essay and its certainly not my job to coach benji on casting.

fortunately you only affect my reputation points and not my entire sc2sea forum experience.

It was criticism that wasn't constructive in any way; albeit being immature(it's akin to throwing a childish insult like "lol you're bad" without stating the reason for why you think he's bad(the "why you think he's bad" will be the constructive part). That's all there is to it.

Quick Comments

ToR.Arnor: