[breadfan]

Originally Posted by TAEdarus

The winner is the team / people who worked the hardest at improving (and naturally their league shall reflect this).

The only thing I respectfully disagree with in this post is this, as I feel it says "we got more promotions because we worked harder, so we deserve to win"

I mentioned in an earlier post that I don't think it's fair to claim that most promotions = harder working team - maybe those 4 players who got promoted worked harder comparatively, but what about the ones that didn't get promoted - there's no measure of if they put any effort in whatsoever.

I hate the idea of excluding people just because they are "too good" though. That's not right.

Maybe we should just add 1 plat spot (so teams can field 3 plats per week, up from 2) for the second half of the season and be done with it?

[Volition]

Originally Posted by TAEdarus

I think the issue is this league was BSGP instead of BSG.

At the beginning of the tournament this was promoted as BSG, not BSGP. there was only 1 team (maybe 2) that submitted with plats, and then there was the full plat QED team that was meant to be playing in tier 4 (but there were 1000000 tier 4 teams, and the QED teams merged and split). from that point it suddenly became the BSGP league. So i am not real sure that this was always the BSGP - in splitting Zerocraft we went P/D and BSG, as that was what we thought were the rules.

From chadmann's advice, there is no promotion and demotion system - so tbh it doesnt really matter. From the comments above the two sides of the argument are as follows:

1. Allow more plats+ each week:-
a) these guys started in the league, and have worked hard for their promotion, to be punished and essentially told they cant all play; and
b) teams whose players have been promoted now have a solid number of their players are ineligible for the first three games of each match.
c) by not allowing more plats, it allows a stronger team on paper to get taken out by a weaker team due to this single restriction

2. Dont amend the rule for more than 2 plats a week:-
a) this was promoted as the BSG league;
b) forcing a team of predominantly silver players to play plats isnt fair (and it isnt really fun for the silvers); and
c) two plat+ per week can still play each week - to allow more is to disadvantage teams that have a relatively weak lineup when compared to some of the powerhouses in the competition.

Is that a relative summary of the positions from both sides? As pretty much everyone has said, both sides have a good case, so picking one is always going to make the other unhappy.

EDIT - just read the posts in the interim - Why not just let the top 5 teams field whatever teams they want when playing each other, but enforce the two plat rule when playing the bottom 6?

Quick Comments

	breadfan:	nice summary!
	TAEdarus:

[ZC.EvilSWAT]

Originally Posted by Volition

...
Is that a relative summary of the positions from both sides? As pretty much everyone has said, both sides have a good case, so picking one is always going to make the other unhappy.

I honestly was under the impression that Tier 5 winners get promoted into Tier 4, I apologise for that mix up.

Since they're all separate leagues, then I'm all for sticking to the current rules of 2 plats/week. Please note that we have quite a number of teams who don't even have 2 platinum players. Increasing the allowed number of Plats per week will encourage further disparity in the league since the bottom few will then have little/no chance of success when their Silver players are forced to play against a team of Plats.

Basically I don't want an "OCCUPY SEACL TIER5" situation where 10% of the teams owns 90% of the points, we've had enough of that in English soccer.

Quick Comments

breadfan:

lol @ your references

[ZC.EvilSWAT]

(Out Of Current Topic) In all honesty, I love Tier 5. Take a look at the other threads for the other tiers, nobody talks about anything at all. In here, plenty of lively debates and discussion, helping each other to improve the system and community as a whole. Well done mates!

Quick Comments

FSBenAD:

Agree, go Tier 5!

[DeNile]

okay heres the promotions and names minus the battle codes for you oh great admins.

QEDReaper ------>
QEDiajlus ----->
QEDDeNile ----->
QEDFridge
QEDUpWaiting
QEDReverseCure
QEDYin

If there is anyone i have missed its cause there inactive and battlecodes will come. Also as chad has stated earlier the only tier that is getting promoted by the act of placement is tier 2 to tier1 and vice versa. All other tiers reset as you re submit line-ups for next season so its up to team captains if they want to keep the entire team together or not. and QED feels the lain of plats as it stands we only have three active players not Plat meaning walkovers are likely to be given as i for one am not available every week. Although i feel i am forgetting someone lol.

[QEDFridge]

Originally Posted by QEDDeNile

okay heres the promotions and names minus the battle codes for you oh great admins.

QEDReaper ------>
QEDiajlus ----->
QEDDeNile ----->
QEDFridge
QEDUpWaiting
QEDReverseCure
QEDYin

If there is anyone i have missed its cause there inactive and battlecodes will come. Also as chad has stated earlier the only tier that is getting promoted by the act of placement is tier 2 to tier1 and vice versa. All other tiers reset as you re submit line-ups for next season so its up to team captains if they want to keep the entire team together or not. and QED feels the lain of plats as it stands we only have three active players not Plat meaning walkovers are likely to be given as i for one am not available every week. Although i feel i am forgetting someone lol.

I want your babies DeNile.. thanks so much for doing this

[syfChadMann]

Originally Posted by breadfan

I'm quite disappointed that teams don't carry over into future seasons in this league

This is because essentially Tier 5 and 4 are more about individual leagues - rather than a series of connected leagues... for a team to be promoted from Tier 5 to Tier 4 - their players need to promote in league.

It would suck to be the bronze player dragged up by a strong gold/plat line up in tier 5 and promoted into tier 4 - only to be dominated by diamond and master league players. Also, inactivity is high in BSG level tournaments.. Team line ups can change drastically from season to season. So having a team promoted - only the be totally changed the next season doesn't make much sense...

The Tier 4 and 5 competition is about improvement - as we individually improve at different rates and to different heights, this format allows players to make the jump to higher tiers (if their clan can field the team) at their own rate.

[breadfan]

Originally Posted by TAChadMann

This is because essentially Tier 5 and 4 are more about individual leagues - rather than a series of connected leagues... for a team to be promoted from Tier 5 to Tier 4 - their players need to promote in league.

It would suck to be the bronze player dragged up by a strong gold/plat line up in tier 5 and promoted into tier 4 - only to be dominated by diamond and master league players. Also, inactivity is high in BSG level tournaments.. Team line ups can change drastically from season to season. So having a team promoted - only the be totally changed the next season doesn't make much sense...

The Tier 4 and 5 competition is about improvement - as we individually improve at different rates and to different heights, this format allows players to make the jump to higher tiers (if their clan can field the team) at their own rate.

But to me, that's where the beauty of this system is. Clan leaders/team managers now have to make strategic decisions between seasons - Team X got promoted, but Player 1 is only bronze - he will withdraw from the team and particpate in our new T5 team we are entering.

By the same token, say TAEdarus & Friends rightfully feels they belong in T4 next season. BUT! their diamond player/s decide they want to move up even more, and join the other tier. Do TA allow this? It might mean they go from a strong position in T4 to a weaker one, while the addition of a diamond in T3 might not be as much of a boost for the team, but for the individual it could be huge. Clans start banking on player improvement, and there becomes more incentive for other people in their clan to get behind lower league teams.

The thought of this sort of thing happening makes me salivate, because it adds this whole new dimension to team management

[TAEdarus]

Originally Posted by breadfan

The only thing I respectfully disagree with in this post is this, as I feel it says "we got more promotions because we worked harder, so we deserve to win"

I mentioned in an earlier post that I don't think it's fair to claim that most promotions = harder working team - maybe those 4 players who got promoted worked harder comparatively, but what about the ones that didn't get promoted - there's no measure of if they put any effort in whatsoever.

I hate the idea of excluding people just because they are "too good" though. That's not right.

Maybe we should just add 1 plat spot (so teams can field 3 plats per week, up from 2) for the second half of the season and be done with it?

Oh yeah I wasn't saying others weren't putting effort in... But I mean there has to be an aspect of real-world to this.

Was just more saying "why penalize the people who've practiced and gotten results just because other players have unfortunately not yet gotten their results?"

[breadfan]

Originally Posted by TAEdarus

Oh yeah I wasn't saying others weren't putting effort in... But I mean there has to be an aspect of real-world to this.

Was just more saying "why penalize the people who've practiced and gotten results just because other players have unfortunately not yet gotten their results?"

I guess my line of thinking is that you aren't penalising individuals, because individuals who work hard will get better individual results. They will reap their own (individual) rewards

I do think teams are hard done by if they run out of players and aren't able to field a team, yes. But I don't feel that with a rotation policy of 2 players per week in place that it's right to say "our overall lineup is strongest so we deserve some autowins" (I know this sin't what you're sying, I'm exaggerating). The point is, with a rotation policy, you can't always field your tip top team anyway, even if they are all gold. To "not penalise" these people, you need to do away with the 2 plats per week rule and the roster rotation rule altogether so that teams can always field their strongest possible lineup.

Quick Comments

TAEdarus:

[FSBenAD]

It sounds about right, I found about this through he post on TL which mentioned the bottom tier was for BSG and since me and all my friends were bronze or silver (i was the only gold), I thought it would be good. And its fine that we had to include more plat's down here, Tier 4 is crazy with that many teams at it is!

But it was probably always going to run into this problem once we introduced the 2 plat limit at the start.

In the end the decision will have little effect on me and my team, we have turned up every round, every one has had a go and we have never used a sub/wildcard so far. My guys are still keen to do their best even though a lot of them haven't won a single match in a best of 3 yet

And hopefully at the end of the season they will be rewarded with a shiny !

Quick Comments

	syfChadMann:	that's the spirit!! :D
	ZC.EvilSWAT:	Teams like yours are saving our communities one league at a time!
	breadfan:	You bring a tear to my eye. Have this rep.

[TAEdarus]

Originally Posted by Volition

EDIT - just read the posts in the interim - Why not just let the top 5 teams field whatever teams they want when playing each other, but enforce the two plat rule when playing the bottom 6?

Issue I see there (although I like the idea) is different rules for different teams.
Perhaps a better way to look at it is allow teams to field equal numbers of plat+?

Originally Posted by EvilSWAT

I honestly was under the impression that Tier 5 winners get promoted into Tier 4, I apologise for that mix up.

Same here, no need for apologies!

Originally Posted by EvilSWAT

(Out Of Current Topic) In all honesty, I love Tier 5. Take a look at the other threads for the other tiers, nobody talks about anything at all. In here, plenty of lively debates and discussion, helping each other to improve the system and community as a whole. Well done mates!

Seconded!

Quick Comments

breadfan:

agree that diff rules for diff teams is not cool :D

[Zealo]

would simply using players league at the start of the SEAL season (for the purpose of allowing player to play each week) work?

[rezyn8]

I have updated FaDe's recent roster update with the below promotion

> salsaVISION.167

Gratz on Platz, Vision!!!

[Zealo]

mikeyjk
invaderzim
riseym
manipulator (not yet placed new season, pretty sure he'll stay silver, slight possibility he'll hit gold)
mooseable
unthunder
mansandross
MrCrow was now
frisco was now
wranga
head was now
telfiri

[krycek]

TCPkrycek.964 >
naviC.170 >
TCPHobs.425 > - inactive
CCBBQChipsy.315 >
TCPDeathWing.693 >
TCPfrogmite.365 >
NaroZilla. 994 >
TCPleaf > inactive still though
TCPstormz.914 >
TCPGalabo.490 >
SundaySushi >
Xiaxue >

just my 2 cents being in a team that is heavily plat i think that the 2 rotatioons perweek is a real pain in the neck tbh, so perhaps keep tghe rule about max plats per week the same but give an exemption for the plat heavy sides in the rotationary ruling. And no TCP didnt field its original team full of plats, albiet stormz was a sub that was ment to be gold but wasnt >.<

[Frogmite]

Originally Posted by TCPkrycek

TCPkrycek.964 >
naviC.170 >
TCPHobs.425 > - inactive
CCBBQChipsy.315 >
TCPDeathWing.693 >
TCPfrogmite.365 >
NaroZilla. 994 >
TCPleaf > inactive still though
TCPstormz.914 >
TCPGalabo.490 >
SundaySushi >
Xiaxue >

just my 2 cents being in a team that is heavily plat i think that the 2 rotatioons perweek is a real pain in the neck tbh, so perhaps keep tghe rule about max plats per week the same but give an exemption for the plat heavy sides in the rotationary ruling. And no TCP didnt field its original team full of plats, albiet stormz was a sub that was ment to be gold but wasnt >.<

Maybe we can rotate 2 platinum players? So we'll still get 4 silver/gold players to fill the last two spots?

[rezyn8]

I have updated FaDe's recent roster update with the below promotion

> deadpixel.725

Gratz on GOLD, pixel!!!

[TAEaeron]

Originally Posted by Frogmite

Maybe we can rotate 2 platinum players? So we'll still get 4 silver/gold players to fill the last two spots?

The only thing about this Frog is you will have to play 3/6 of your golds/silvers.
It makes the teams extremely easy to snipe.
You always have to play your plats in either g3/g4 or ace. and put your others around them.

[x5_Potter]

Originally Posted by TAEaeron

The only thing about this Frog is you will have to play 3/6 of your golds/silvers.
It makes the teams extremely easy to snipe.
You always have to play your plats in either g3/g4 or ace. and put your others around them.

That's basically what happens now, so there'd be no change.

Quick Comments

rezyn8: