[MooZfY]

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[TAScarecrow]

Very lenient, it's hard to believe the only game he ever hacked in was the one where he got caught. Muse calling him out on the first page + the initial lying/defence makes the confession look more like calculated damage control. Great message to send to people: if you do get caught hacking, admit to the games cited and say it was only this once for a slap on the wrist.\

edit: at the very least he could've uploaded a complete ladder rep pack from last season, instead he offered a 55 min stream VOD which proved nothing

[Volition]

Originally Posted by Scarecrow

Very lenient, it's hard to believe the only game he ever hacked in was the one where he got caught. Muse calling him out on the first page + the initial lying/defence makes the confession look more like calculated damage control. Great message to send to people: if you do get caught hacking, admit to the games cited and say it was only this once for a slap on the wrist.

Well what punishment would you believe is reasonable? a 9 week break seems more than reasonable to me, given what has happened to his reputation through this thread. whether or not he has hacked more than one game is irrelevant - as you will see him as a hacker forever.

So, what do you think is a just punishment that should be handed out by us as a community?

Should we rely on knee jerk reactions - such as those that have been posted throughout the thread? or should we use this thread as a message to the hackers - we are a community, and we will find you and report you to your clan and blizzard, which is truly all we have in our power to do.

Volition

Quick Comments

	FaDeBadger:
	nirvAnA:	Yea I believe this thread already sends an adequate message to hackers on what will happen to you. Hero to Zero and all.
	Nemo:	+1

[TAScarecrow]

Originally Posted by Volition

Well what punishment would you believe is reasonable? a 9 week break seems more than reasonable to me, given what has happened to his reputation through this thread. whether or not he has hacked more than one game is irrelevant - as you will see him as a hacker forever.

So, what do you think is a just punishment that should be handed out by us as a community?

Should we rely on knee jerk reactions - such as those that have been posted throughout the thread? or should we use this thread as a message to the hackers - we are a community, and we will find you and report you to your clan and blizzard, which is truly all we have in our power to do.

Volition

Agreed with Dippa, 6 months to a year seems reasonable. Hacking's the gaming equivalent of 1st degree murder as far as i'm concerned. Fade's response is piss weak, the few that are caught should be made examples of. No forum ban is also bloody soft for a gaming community.

I'lm sure hackers are shaking in their boots. "You're unlikely to get caught unless you admit it; your clanmates will support you throughout and if you come clean we'll be super nice about it and give you some community work to do."

All this thread says is "Don't get caught twice".

[FaDeBadger]

With the exception of Meatex's statement on FaDe's side of this situation it's starting to be like beating a dead horse no?

Some people won't believe it was the only game he hacked, some will. Never going to convince people otherwise. Let it go.

Quick Comments

stalking you:

well said

[FaDeGofire]

If he has hacked in other games then I hope others will post more replays to prove it. If it is true then of course a much heavier punishment should be handed out (since it would be the second time lying in this thread). Until then, I will believe evets' admission and i find the punishment to be appropriate.

[dippa]

Coming from other communities, I wouldn't describe the 3 month ban as "harsh", although I'm glad that some form of ban has been instituted.

Having seen the Australian and New Zealand Counter-Strike community completely torn to shreds by a lack of willingness to remove hackers from the scene, I'd favour a much stronger ban - 12 months minimum, if not a complete removal from all competitions for life in lieu of the attempted "defence" and the lies that came with it.

SC2 in SEA is so much larger than every other game we've had over the last ten years, with Counter-Strike being the only possible exception. The community is large enough to withstand the permanent, or at least semi-permanent removal of one player in order to maintain integrity.

You can't put a price on setting a good example. It's not just the fact that he wasted everybody's time and effort by forcing us (the community) to expose him, but the additional time wasted by playing in games that have been revealed to be nothing but a complete farce.

Most gamers aren't little kids anymore. We're adults with little time to spare, an absolutely precious commodity. Get rid of this obnoxious little parasite and send out a proper message that hacking will not be tolerated in any way shape or form.

I don't feel the punishment does that. If you want to hack, you should do so on the understanding that you will not be allowed to interact or compete with the community (since the act of hacking, and lying about it, is actively undermining everything an online community stands for).

Quick Comments

	TAScarecrow:
	Peleus:
	Sanctify:
	x5.Revenant:	There should be a punishment imposed for "attempted defence" too..but oh well! Live and let live.

[Volition]

Originally Posted by dippa

Coming from other communities, I wouldn't describe the 3 month ban as "harsh", although I'm glad that some form of ban has been instituted.

Having seen the Australian and New Zealand Counter-Strike community completely torn to shreds by a lack of willingness to remove hackers from the scene, I'd favour a much stronger ban - 12 months minimum, if not a complete removal from all competitions for life in lieu of the attempted "defence" and the lies that came with it.

SC2 in SEA is so much larger than every other game we've had over the last ten years, with Counter-Strike being the only possible exception. The community is large enough to withstand the permanent, or at least semi-permanent removal of one player in order to maintain integrity.

You can't put a price on setting a good example. It's not just the fact that he wasted everybody's time and effort by forcing us (the community) to expose him, but the additional time wasted by playing in games that have been revealed to be nothing but a complete farce.

Most gamers aren't little kids anymore. We're adults with little time to spare, an absolutely precious commodity. Get rid of this obnoxious little parasite and send out a proper message that hacking will not be tolerated in any way shape or form.

I don't feel the punishment does that. If you want to hack, you should do so on the understanding that you will not be allowed to interact or compete with the community (since the act of hacking, and lying about it, is actively undermining everything an online community stands for).

Interesting rhetoric - we should have at least a 12 month ban for a guy that has made a few posts then admitted that he was in the wrong? you are overestimating the pull of the sc2sea community. to be banned from this community is not to have your account deleted from the game etc.

Evets has said he has done the wrong thing, the punishment has been handed down from the people in control, yet the complaints come. why.

you know that from this point on, every single game that Evets plays in the future is going to be reviewed suspiciously - even when he makes good judgement calls he is going to be called a hacker.

I think we should be focusing our efforts on the amazing things that sc2sea has to offer instead of beating this deadhorse into submission. once again, why.

Volition

Quick Comments

	nirvAnA:	that and getting 12 months of exile is as good as never touching sc2 again
	PiG:	the voice of reason speaks

[dippa]

Originally Posted by Volition

Interesting rhetoric - we should have at least a 12 month ban for a guy that has made a few posts then admitted that he was in the wrong? you are overestimating the pull of the sc2sea community. to be banned from this community is not to have your account deleted from the game etc.

Evets has said he has done the wrong thing, the punishment has been handed down from the people in control, yet the complaints come. why.

you know that from this point on, every single game that Evets plays in the future is going to be reviewed suspiciously - even when he makes good judgement calls he is going to be called a hacker.

I think we should be focusing our efforts on the amazing things that sc2sea has to offer instead of beating this deadhorse into submission. once again, why.

Volition

I understand SC2SEA can't prevent people from playing the game, but they can make a stance and set the standards for being a member of the community.

Just because he will come under scrutiny in the future is not in any way recompense for wasting people's time and enjoyment with hacks. If I offered you the opportunity to play a game against someone who was hacking or someone who wasn't, what would you choose? The game ceases to be enjoyable when your opponents are tracking your every move.

Also, just because punishment has been doled out and an apology has been provided - which was not in any way, shape or form forthcoming until his lies were well and truly exposed - doesn't mean further discussion on the topic is unwarranted.

Having a strong community is part of the wonderful things SC2SEA can offer, and it's everyone's job to safeguard that. This is the perfect opportunity for the community to lay down a precedent for the future; if you consider that a "complaint", then I can do nothing more but disagree with your sentiments in the strongest possible terms.

[Volition]

Originally Posted by dippa

I understand SC2SEA can't prevent people from playing the game, but they can make a stance and set the standards for being a member of the community.

Just because he will come under scrutiny in the future is not in any way recompense for wasting people's time and enjoyment with hacks. If I offered you the opportunity to play a game against someone who was hacking or someone who wasn't, what would you choose? The game ceases to be enjoyable when your opponents are tracking your every move.

Also, just because punishment has been doled out and an apology has been provided - which was not in any way, shape or form forthcoming until his lies were well and truly exposed - doesn't mean further discussion on the topic is unwarranted.

Having a strong community is part of the wonderful things SC2SEA can offer, and it's everyone's job to safeguard that. This is the perfect opportunity for the community to lay down a precedent for the future; if you consider that a "complaint", then I can do nothing more but disagree with your sentiments in the strongest possible terms.

wasting people's time and enjoyment? If that is literally all that is wasted, then i fail to see how we can disagree in the strongest possible terms.

At the end of the day, this is a game and we play it for enjoyment, as an enjoyable way of spending our time. To waste that is to waste our enjoyment and time - really not that precious commodities in the grand scheme of things.

it truly feels like a storm in a teacup - if someone was hacking and beat me, well good for them i suppose. What further harm has it REALLY caused you?

I am not defending hacking, or evets, but i feel that the "wrecking the game 6-12 month ban" and "should go to hell" moniker has been thrown out too much in this thread. It is time we all got back to doing something beneficial for the the community and focusing on the good stuff. Nirvana has handed out the punishment, to continue to complain is to be opposed to the decision - and at the end of the day if you dont like it you do not need to be a part of the community if you find this decision does not "safeguard" the commuinity in the appropriate manner.

volition

Quick Comments

	TAScarecrow:	we know it's you, stop signing
	Brultze:
	nirvAnA:	I think he does that cause he used to it being a lawyer and all haha
	simon:	you are far to starry eyed sir
	Welshy:	Destroying people 1 post at a time

[EveMassacrisM]

I've noticed him hacking in a few games way back in season 3. JazBas also said he knew EvetS was a hacker. Clearly this guy didn't just hack 1 game like he claimed.

[FaDeBadger]

Originally Posted by EveMassacrisM

I've noticed him hacking in a few games way back in season 3. JazBas also said he knew EvetS was a hacker. Clearly this guy didn't just hack 1 game like he claimed.

You can't just say you noticed him hacking, post proof please. As for the Jazbas incident I believe that was sorted out at the time by Meatex, although I wasn't in the clan at that stage so don't know details.

[ToRDeathsFang]

In response to dippa, i would completely agree with everything you're saying, if the person hacking is a complete douche (ie someone like Deezer for example) In which case i'd be happy to see that person permanently banned and never seen again.

But since the person in question is Evets, a well respected member of the community and someone who has donated a fair bit of his time to the community, combined with the fact which he had the balls to own up to it, i think there should be some leniency. He, more than most people would deserve a second chance.

Quick Comments

nirvAnA:

[dippa]

Originally Posted by DeathsFang

In response to dippa, i would completely agree with everything you're saying, if the person hacking is a complete douche (ie someone like Deezer for example) In which case i'd be happy to see that person permanently banned and never seen again.

But since the person in question is Evets, a well respected member of the community and someone who has donated a fair bit of his time to the community, combined with the fact which he had the balls to own up to it, i think there should be some leniency. He, more than most people would deserve a second chance.

That doesn't work. He can't be a well respected person IF HE DECIDED TO CHEAT.

Also, he didn't have the balls to own up to it; he was exposed and decided to lie, only choosing to admit the truth after his defence was fractured with evidence to the contrary.

His actions shows that he's obviously lacking in principle; I can't imagine how anyone could still hold him in high regard (beyond close friends) after all of that.

Quick Comments

	mGMUSE:	the reason i'm still posting is because his explanation is STILL a lie
	stalking you:

[ToR.Arnor]

Originally Posted by dippa

That doesn't work. He can't be a well respected person IF HE DECIDED TO CHEAT.

Also, he didn't have the balls to own up to it; he was exposed and decided to lie, only choosing to admit the truth after his defence was fractured with evidence to the contrary.

His actions shows that he's obviously lacking in principle; I can't imagine how anyone could still hold him in high regard (beyond close friends) after all of that.

keep in mind the ban for events applies only for SC2SEA, people who run their own events e.g. Dox, deL, Eddie, frequency and myself may have their own views towards hackers and given the recent emergence of hacking, event admins will need to review their policies on the matter

Quick Comments

nirvAnA:

Basically it happened on our SC2SEA skype group like this - Eddie suggested the 3 month ban. All the mods agreed.

[FaDeBadger]

Originally Posted by dippa

Also, he didn't have the balls to own up to it; he was exposed and decided to lie, only choosing to admit the truth after his defence was fractured with evidence to the contrary.

This is actually quite incorrect. If you look back through the thread you will see several posts, most notably from PiG outlining exactly how he thought the replay was inconclusive at least. If anything, he was on the way to being cleared as "that game was a little suss but nothing we can prove".

He's got balls to admit it after it looked like, for the most part he would, "get away with it".

Quick Comments

	mGMUSE:	stop being so biased
	simon:	i grow even more frustrated after each post of yours i read -_-;;

[AxSGRiM]

Originally Posted by FaDeBadger

This is actually quite incorrect. If you look back through the thread you will see several posts, most notably from PiG outlining exactly how he thought the replay was inconclusive at least. If anything, he was on the way to being cleared as "that game was a little suss but nothing we can prove".

He's got balls to admit it after it looked like, for the most part he would, "get away with it".

lol IMO you're being overly biased, it sounds like you're saying it's a good thing that he should have just gotten away with hacking. This is the sort of statement that promotes hacking because you can get away with it. Even if he did admit it, hacking in the first place is almost 100x more wrong and the punishment IMO was too lenient, but I can understand that we're a growing community and some of the rules haven't been set yet due to this being the first sort of "big person in the community got hacking" case we've had.

Notice he tried to defend himself in the beginning and then just owned up to it? Does that takes balls, or is he just shit-scared he didn't want the punishment to be even more severe? You tell me.

Quick Comments

Shieldz:

so true ur just biased

[ToRSpartaz]

Originally Posted by FaDeBadger

This is actually quite incorrect. If you look back through the thread you will see several posts, most notably from PiG outlining exactly how he thought the replay was inconclusive at least. If anything, he was on the way to being cleared as "that game was a little suss but nothing we can prove".

He's got balls to admit it after it looked like, for the most part he would, "get away with it".

"Im a dwarf and im digging a hole, diggy diggy hole... diggy diggy hole"

Stop arguing, just leave it as is ^^ your not making it any better for yourselves. If people drop this case now, I for one would be a hell of a lot better. Wouldn't you? Just chill man

Quick Comments

	mGGDaedalus:	This is out of context in light of recent developments
	PiG:
	TAScarecrow:
	ROOT`iaguz:	He's not a Dwarf...
	mGMUSE:
	AxSGRiM:
	Shieldz:
	SPGDoG:	took that words straight out of my mouth :)

[FaDeBadger]

Originally Posted by Spartaz

"Im a dwarf and im digging a hole, diggy diggy hole... diggy diggy hole"

Stop arguing, just leave it as is ^^ your not making it any better for yourselves. If people drop this case now, I for one would be a hell of a lot better. Wouldn't you? Just chill man

If you actually follow through the whole thread, you'll notice since the new evidence has been posted/brought to light no one has defended him or said anything. It's the admin's call not ours. We acted right on the information we had at the time and our past dealings with him. It's over our heads now.

Quick Comments

	TAriiChard:
	TADivinity:	But you were a rude dickhead to many people - whether your defending was justified or not
	ToRSpartaz:	Divinity you are a boss <3
	AxSGRiM:	divinity fighting
	Shieldz:	so true divinity
	SPGDoG:	i agree with divinity

[Sanctify]

Accused of hacking, denying it, fade defends him, admits it, lies, fade still defending him and trying to bullshit, all being retards and unwilling to openly accept the facts and be honest.

Face it its known by everyone beyond reasonable doubt, even if not proven straight out, that he's a hacker, and not just for 'one game.'

But hey why does it matter? He's friends with some top players and has a FaDe to pretend to have authority in the community and defend/comtinue bullshitting. How noble and honest of him to admit to using hacks once.

Pathetic community.

Quick Comments

	EveMassacrisM:	Very pathetic indeed.
	nirvAnA:	punishment has already been served. do police still cut off hands of thieves? I think not
	MooZfY:	Hey! we're not a pathetic community :(
	dippa:	there's nothing "noble" in being forced to admit to cheating, wish more people understood this.
	TAScarecrow:
	FaDeBadger:	Pathetic post from a pathetic person
	Imperial:	hear hear!
	Nemo:	Don't call us pathetic please. Really.
	mGMUSE:	agreed
	RicocheT:	No sir. Don't call the community pathetic either.
	simon:
	asdfSchnitzel:	Thats just harsh
	EXCL:	not needed
	:	here's more pathetic rep
	Welshy:	If you don't like the decisions of the Admins of sc2sea gtfo then
	ToRSpartaz:	SPAM REP <3
	Rage:	i don't like that you called the community pathetic, but the rest is spot on.
	Bash:	This post is kinda sad.
	nard:	:( so sad
	TCPKiaSu:	agree with rage
	stalking you:	I dont like you insulting us :(