[Highlander]

Hi guys,

Been playing more often lately, having a lot of trouble too. I'm in Silver league playing Random.


At my level, I find my Protoss opponents 4gates about 70% of the time (majority of balance being 2gate Zealot rushes) and usually don't even scout my race before heading well down that path.

Does anyone have any advice for an optimal build/opener for this scenario? I'll need each race and please consider my poor execution ability.

(Note: Protoss I handle best. Tal Darim Altar I just 4gate back and typically win, anywhere else I FF the ramp and outtech.)

Thanks in advance!

[Volition]

While i am only a lowly gold, I think you are more likely to get 4 gated as random. The other player doesnt know your race, and isnt going to be able to go the more macro oriented openings (such as a 1 gate expand) if there is a chance you are zerg. without race specific builds being available that leaves maybe two solid protoss builds against you - 4 gate and a 3 gate expand. and your Protoss opponent wont want to be doing a 3 gate expand if you are going 4 gate. So really, it leaves the two builds you mentioned.

I play terran, so i can only speak for how to hold a 4 gate as that. It will depend on what build you like, I personally go for a 2 rax expand, with pressure if you see the toss opponent go for an early expansion. If you scout the 4 gate (and you should, keep that scv alive up to 26 supply), drop two bunkers and have 2-3 scvs there to repair, and drop your expansion. Know the 4 gate timing to not lose too much mining time with the scvs.

Hope this helps. GL with random

Volition

Quick Comments

Highlander:

[TCPKiaSu]

I don't play zerg but when I am toss and I 4gate I always pull back when I see the zerg have about 2-3 spines and roaches

Quick Comments

Highlander:

[Ruscour]

I'll explain this in some detail for every race.

Firstly, Protoss will do this A LOT against Randoms because (this sounds silly) Protoss is incredibly broken against Random. Y'know what happens if you don't forge expand on Tal'darim Altar? Y'know what happens if you make your gateway at your ramp against a Terran? Bad things. Bad bad things. So because of this, one opening that has a low, but decent chance to work against every race is the 4gate, especially at your level players don't change their builds from what they scout so if you see one gas and two pylons when you scout you should absolutely assume a 4gate, check the chrono on the nexus as well, it should be high. Then again, low level players don't really spend it anyway.

So you've figured out how to scout it. As Protoss (on maps that aren't Tal'darim Altar), you wanna go 2gas 3gate, get out sentries to forcefield the ramp until you have enough units (typically 1-2 immortals) then you can crush the push. 4gate is pretty much dead PvP because of this, you can forcefield that ramp absolutely forever, and Stalkers do nothing once you hit 2 immortals.

As Terran, the most important thing is bunkers. If you're scared of 4gates, even if you take an early expo if you have well placed bunkers and make sure there's no pylon in your base you should have no problem holding it at all, especially with some marauders. Just pull SCVs to repair and once you have stim/medivacs you can easily kill a Protoss stuck on nothing but gateway units. You can 1rax FE but 2rax is probably safest, you get a reactor on your first rax after your first marine then a tech lab on your 2nd, constant marine/marauder production, get conc shells -> combat shield and once you have the minerals make a CC.

As Zerg, Roaches are a great response but pure Zerglings can hold it off with little issue. 2-3 spines, an extra queen for early transfuse (if you think it's coming, just don't make creep tumors with your creep queen because the game will be over once you hold it off) and it's no problem at all. Make sure you have units AT THE TIMING (5:45, probably later at your level) because Protoss can forcefield the ramp and you can't hold it off on one base. If you know the push is coming, it's not difficult to stop in any matchup. Standard opening, hatch first/14pool/speedling expand, all fine. Obviously you can't do anything on one base.

Also, in every matchup, if you stop the probe from making the proxy pylon...you just delayed the push by a minute and just won the game. He may be able to protect it well, but speedlings/stalkers/whatever being able to catch that probe is game ending.

I don't 4gate randoms but I 4gate PvP on TDA and I 4gate +1 Zergs that I think will die to it. All from experience, I 4gated to gold easily. Hope this helps.

Quick Comments

Highlander:

[EveMassacrisM]

As Zerg, once scouted 4gate(presuming you've expanded)

1. Get roach warren.
2. Plant 2-3 spines.
3. Cut drones completely. Make lings, then roaches when possible.

The key is to keep up with larvae injects and NOT to get supply blocked at all.

Quick Comments

Highlander:

[Highlander]

Originally Posted by Volition

I think you are more likely to get 4 gated as random. The other player doesnt know your race, and isnt going to be able to go the more macro oriented openings (such as a 1 gate expand) if there is a chance you are zerg. without race specific builds being available that leaves maybe two solid protoss builds against you - 4 gate and a 3 gate expand. and your Protoss opponent wont want to be doing a 3 gate expand if you are going 4 gate.

Thanks Volition. That makes sense. I had suspected I was on the receiving end more frequently due to being random. Thanks for that.

Originally Posted by Ruscour

As Zerg, Roaches are a great response but pure Zerglings can hold it off with little issue. 2-3 spines, an extra queen for early transfuse (if you think it's coming, just don't make creep tumors with your creep queen because the game will be over once you hold it off) and it's no problem at all. Make sure you have units AT THE TIMING (5:45, probably later at your level) because Protoss can forcefield the ramp and you can't hold it off on one base. If you know the push is coming, it's not difficult to stop in any matchup. Standard opening, hatch first/14pool/speedling expand, all fine. Obviously you can't do anything on one base.

Thanks Ruscour!

Protoss is pretty much in line with what I was thinking, and R(P)vP is an easy match up for me as long as I don't do something dumb.

Terran, that looks great and is in line with Volition's advice. I'll give it a run.

Zerg, that looks the trickiest even with MassacrisM's and DeathWing's input (for which I am nonetheless grateful :-) ). Unlike Terran where you will have the advantage after having held (with your expo), it's not just surviving the push but taking the win which is the challenge. I lost a game just like that yesterday.

Part of it is of course my macro, pure and simple, most importantly of which is when to build drones and when not to. That'll come with practice for sure.

In the meantime, does someone know a build for Zerg specifically to help me survive that 4gate so I end up with maximum army size around that 5:45-6:00 mark?

As an alternative, should I perhaps be trying to beat the timing with a 7RR?

[mewmew]

to hold of 4 gate just make sure you have enough units by the time it hits to defend.

terran - 2 - 3 bunkers + scv repairing. Marines + Marauders

protoss - go for 3 gate robo and FF ramp till Immortals pop. sort of the safest build out there for P

zerg - 3 spines minimum if you're not confident, speedlings + 4 to 5 roaches should hold his first wave. use some lings to destroy his proxy pylon while he's distracted by the main battle at your base. try NOT to let queen at the nat run loose and get killed. use hold pos at the min line if you want to be safe.