[SLCN.Kez]

This is my application for the extra diablo 3 beta key which is currently up for grabs!

Before writing this long winded and probably extremely controversial article which is sure to earn me many flame hating posts, I would like to take the time to say that in general I have nothing against women. (Believe it or not).

Cracking my knuckles, brewing a massive pot of V, releasing all energy and tension from my neck, I will now begin the post that will probably get me hated by just about every person on SEA.
So, girls in e-sports. Who'd-a-thunk it. There are a few various reasons, circumstances, and clear results that most of the time, women and e-sports just don't seem to peacefully co-exist. One such reason is because for the longest of time every thing that male "geeks" have been doing has been scorned by women and men alike, but of course we lash out at women because no one likes to be insulted by the ones we could potentially love, with hate being a much closer emotion to love than apathy will ever be, for which we leave to the guys who pick on us. Another reason I have a few grudges with women in professional gaming and broadcasting is because of the quality (or lack there off) they posses, and still manage to get into the same spotlight/success as their male counterparts, simply because they are girls. Lastly the issues a lot of women face in gaming are the problems they have been facing for centuries, guys who feel like being misogynistic assholes for the sake of being misogynistic assholes.

Now then, I hope that after reading the first paragraph you simply haven't thought "TL;DR", and typed "What you got against girls you sexist pig" etc, but please bare with me, there is light at the end of this bigotry tunnel, just let me exacerbate a few of the ideas I mentioned above, starting with the reason why perhaps a lot of gamers dislike women in general.
As previously aforementioned, people have (thought not always) criticized and ridiculed us geeks. Be it out of jealously because we are so obviously good looking but also brilliant and smart (insert troll face), or just for the fun of it, being a gamer will get you bagged. However, the problem comes when the girls of the schoolyard have possibly said these things to us, bare in mind I'm not even close to saying that every single gamer was abused by girls and this is why they hold such hostilities for them, this just may be one reason. So, continuing on with my point, nobody likes to be genuinely insulted and emasculated by the ones we hold sexual desires for, and no I'm not kidding this time. It is out of this hate for feeling inadequate by the ones that we wish to hold dear that I believe a lot of the hate for women come from. After all, hasn't everyone here had their heart broken by some girl for one reason or another, and then felt it impossible to not feel anger towards them? (except for me because in writing this article I am obviously demonstrating I have no heart). So, since high school or perhaps earlier, sometimes even later, we harbor this anger towards women, only to see them emerge in the very games that we play alienating us from them in the first place! The travesty!
To preface my next point, I have no idea about how many female gamers attempt to get into the coverage scene, but it appears that many of the ones who do, are able to do so with less trials and tribulations, and overall less skill at whatever they do, simply because they are female and sex sells.

I feel it is undeniable that some women get special treatment in the e-sports scene purely because they are women, and have some idea of what they are doing, however, how much of an idea is debatable. This pains my very soul, because I don't think we should be sacrificing the finish and expertise of e-sports coverage simply so we can have a few pretty girls talking about games, whilst having desperate geeks who have never held a woman in their life lap it all up because they are simply in awe of a beautiful woman. The very reason I was inspired to write this article that will mutilate my reputation on this site (crits for over 9000, WoW jokes are lame but I thought it relevant) was my utter dissatisfaction whilst watching the IPL pacific qualifies today. The quality of the casting by the 2 girls (I don't know their names tbh) was pretty poor at best. Now don't get me wrong, I've heard kellymilkies cast before and aside from her slightly annoying voice (had to put it in sorry, but I hate moletraps voice as well!) I actually think her casting is pretty good. She brings up relevant strategies and ideas at the right time, she has good synergy with whoever she is casting with, and overall knows whats going on in the game and can guide and engage the viewer with what is happening in the game. These 2 casters today however, could not. I open the chat of the IPL stream to see the views of my fellow gamers, and little to my surprise I see two arguments. The first saying "They are terrible *insert sexist jib here*, the second being Don't be sexist you *insert generic insult here*. My problem with this, though, is that the latter of the arguments were defending them purely because they were women, and not because they were casters who are trying to work hard to bring a better experience to the viewer, where as the former argument seemed to have some valid grounds for disliking their casting. I will admit, I know absolutely nothing about how hard these girls have worked to become casters and to get the gig at the IPL pacific qualifiers, but I feel confident in saying it wasn't half as hard as some of the guys who didn't get the job have worked. I also could have forgiven these 2 casters (I really should go google their names) had they been a bit nervous, stammered here or there, and maybe had less than synergistic speaking properties with one another. Unfortunately, sources say they are silver and gold players, who obviously don't know much about the game, yet still get to be in this prestigious spot of casting big names in sc2 in front of thousands of online spectators, a dream not many get a shot at fulfilling. This paragraph seems to have been a horse thrashed after death many times over so I will let you guys make up your mind about that one.

Lastly, more guys are gamers and pursue gaming professionally than girls. Fact. Unfortunately humanity is not perfect and the minority will always get picked on, with this being a clear example of it. It sucks, I have no disillusions about it, I personally would hate to be a casual or even aspiring pro gaming female in this industry, but that is kind of the way it is, and if you are truly passionate about it I think a lot of haters (myself included) would respect that and probably leave you alone and we could co-exist peacefully which I wholeheartedly do want.

To wrap up let me say this: It is obviously not the girls fault that there are so many problems at the moment with girls in the spotlight at televised e-sports events. A lot of it comes from companies who know that sex sells (lets face it, it does) and think it would be a great idea to put these women who are keen and willing to be a martyr to help promote their business. You might ask then why the hell am I writing this article? I'm glad you asked. The reason is because I love e-sports so much. I have been playing games since I came out of my blessed mothers womb and I intend to teach my eventual kids to do the same, and it pains my very soul and existence when I see events that could be truly great, but have an Achilles heel in UN-qualified girls who are casting and presenting the events who, in a very large portion of the time don't know anything about the game or the organization they are being hired by, and I feel that the quality of the even suffers because of it.

Haters gonna hate, potatoes are gonna potate.

Quick Comments

	Dox:	"Haters gonna hate, potatoes are gonna potate." I chortled. :D
	Imperial:	this shit is eloquent
	deL:	article was OK but then you ruined it with stupid comments in the thread
	Starcraftmazter:	The worst thing is there exist masters girls who could have done infinately better. Why were they not found?

[zeffrin]

You could've delivered similar points without drawing attention to the sexism aspect. Fact is, women will for at least a few more generations continue to be drawn to more social activities and men will focus on spacial skill games.

It's not just casting pretty girls get a soft break... and it's because of people like you actually. You talk about being mysognistic but then you talk about wishing to covet a woman and feel loved etc.

If this were face to face dialog I'd be able to take your age into account for this viewpoint, but I propose that you need to stop worrying about the bitches at highschool... they all go through that phase, and if you talk to women about it, just like the fighting a bullying can be difficult for boys, for girls it can be even worse... (own fault though, they backstab and gossip about each other, and then take offense when someone returns the favor.. meh)

So anyway, stop worrying about those teenagers, male and female teenagers are in a very interesting position of thinking they know enough about the world, not being an environment to show them otherwise and further educate about the world outside of your countries, current politically important topics which are being taught to you. (If you're currently a teen, try to just accept this as a point of view for now, and reconsider it in again when you're 30)

Once schools over and done with you'll be fine if you stop idiolising women... they're just human beings, they have some physilogical and psychological differences but actually they're more afraid of you than you are of them.

Women taking part in SC2 is great.. why? It's not because they could reach like Code S levels of play, but it's because they come bred with the tools we need to build real communities and stuff.

Now, you talk of the time back when no girls used computers or play games, but I doubt you're old enough to remember it. I do. It was so hard to find stuff back then, you had to know a nerd who knew a nerd and let's face it, we nerds didn't know many other nerds. (this is before and during early stages of internet im talking about for you youngins)

Nowadays if you know a nerd girl, you're probably connected by one link to hundreds of other nerds.. and since those girls know many other girls, you're connected by 4th degree to thousands of other nerds.

Quick Comments

Nemo:

I couldn't say it better

[ZergGirl]

Originally Posted by zeffrin

Women taking part in SC2 is great.. why? It's not because they could reach like Code S levels of play, but it's because they come bred with the tools we need to build real communities and stuff.

You can't reach code S levels of play, at least I come with tools needed to build a real community.. and stuff.

Get out.

Quick Comments

	zeffrin:	lol
	FaDeHellfyre:	owned zeffrin. owned.

[inFeZa]

Some girls are amazing in the community, and those ones who are aren't really commented on for being a girl, its because what they do is beneficial to eSports, and that's awesome.

[Meatex]

in any community that is wanting for women you will see women get attention just for that
so because of that us skeptics assume they only get attention for their... assets
But would it not be best to save judgment to see whether they work to grow their skill and abilities or try to brush valid criticisms off with a bat of the lashes

[VoxMSI.Rogue]

o jeeeeeeeez the one thing i liked about this forum was that THIS discussion was not everywhere.

Quick Comments

deL:

boobies

[ZergGirl]

Originally Posted by SQLTt.inFeZa

Some girls are amazing in the community, and those ones who are aren't really commented on for being a girl, its because what they do is beneficial to eSports, and that's awesome.

Girls like Benji

Quick Comments

x5_Potter:

I may be reading this wrong, but you just roflpwned. Well played.

[Benji]

Originally Posted by ZergGirl

Girls like Benji

I wish, god.

Quick Comments

Nemo:

lol

[Ruscour]

This isn't a physical sport, there is nothing stopping a female that works hard enough from being the greatest player in the world. The problem is that the community is so dominated by ludicrously beta 'nergins' that either a) instantly jizz at a female on an eSports stream or b) is so sexually frustrated that they consider themselves better than women and never take them seriously.

Should women be disallowed from eSports? Obviously not. Should there ever be major female-only events? Obviously not, serious money/exposure should go to the best of the best. I liken female tournaments to Bronze/Silver/Golds, they're there to give groups some competition that they don't otherwise get to experience.

So pretty simply, my view is for equality. Females should be treated equally, not too low because they're female and not too high because they make the wang of 14 year olds hit their desk. Ultimately the discussion is interesting but in the end it's pointless because the demographic of the eSports audience is so male-dominated that it will always be one way or the other, or at least for a pretty long time.

I know your post was primarily to do with community members rather than players, kinda just chiming in my own point for whatever reason.

[Imperial]

Tbh i've never heard of or seen for myself any female contribute to the scene and generally dislike them because often they make it clear they are a female so male players will fawn over them, they are only good for trolling because they take everything seriously. If somebody could give me an example of a woman doing something good for e-sports that would be great. I've never done anything for e-sports though so i guess my opinion doesn't have much merit. quick destroy the non existant reputation i possess

[crAzerk]

I eagerly clicked on the controversial-sounding topic to see what you had written, but the wall-of-text-ness greatly discouraged me from continuing I am being picky here, but is it possible if you paragraphed it abit more and maybe use some sub-headings? Would make it ALOT more readable.

Probably is a great write-up given the comments so far, but would love if you formatted it abit

Quick Comments

	FaDeBadger:	My thoughts exactly
	mGGDaedalus:	I couldn't make it through either

[Nemo]

Originally Posted by ZergGirl

You can't reach code S levels of play, at least I come with tools needed to build a real community.. and stuff.

Get out.

I think that zeffrin was saying that girls don't need to have some code S representative to be respected as players.

Top players girls are less frequent than top players guys because there are less girls playing that game, that's all. Luaway (spelling ?), the Storm girl is a hell of a player for example and there are others.

@kez, as zeffrin says, your image and sentiments of women are very "young" (I mean not yet matured) and ambivalent.

Of course sometimes women are chosen more easily to present events or make interview. But that's because us nerd like to hear feminine voice (Zepph voice ... ) or seeing them in that gaming context (Anna) etc.

Even Tastless, Artosis comments are not that great technically, there are better out there, but they are amazing animators and that's what make their success. That's also why Frogmite is the best commentator of SEA (just friendly trolling Benji ), because he has amazing energy in his casts. The same with women, they give us "feminine" and smooth presence when casting that are great.

Bee and Duck are already quite good, dedicated casters, and I'm happy that they were given the chance to go on a bigger stage. Those people who trashed them on the chat were really bad to act like that.

[iMSystem]

Originally Posted by crAzerk

I eagerly clicked on the controversial-sounding topic to see what you had written, but the wall-of-text-ness greatly discouraged me from continuing I am being picky here, but is it possible if you paragraphed it abit more and maybe use some sub-headings? Would make it ALOT more readable.

Probably is a great write-up given the comments so far, but would love if you formatted it abit

I agree that a wall of text is horrible to read, but that doesn't mean you should avoid it.
Good read, and good post. I enjoyed it

[crAzerk]

That's also why Frogmite is the best commentator of SEA

I second that He's one of my favourites for sure. He's just dripping with passion even after casting for 10 hours or something! Il est tres bien!

Originally Posted by System

I agree that a wall of text is horrible to read, but that doesn't mean you should avoid it.

Not exactly 'avoiding' it, just.. putting it off till I have to? Lol. I guess that's avoiding as well. Oh well. Just encouraging better formatting for all our eyes

[ZergGirl]

Originally Posted by Nemo

I think that zeffrin was saying that girls don't need to have some code S representative to be respected as players.

Which is pretty silly


Luaway is really consistent, she pwns.

[zeffrin]

Uhhh yeah, I wasn't saying girls couldn't make Code S... but in general maybe less likely. Ratio of male to female plays a part, but, being spacially aware of the whole map is super important and then there's pattern recognition and all decisions require logic over emotion.

But saying all men possess these skills in greater quantities than all women is definately incorrect, and far too black and white.

Sorry for confusion ZergGirl... and also, by community building Im not talking about anything except the fact that women have far superior communication related skills, empathy and also, a little bit more of a desire to be included in groups than men.

For what it's worth, there was a girl in SlayerS who almost qualified for Code A... or did she get in?

[zeffrin]

Originally Posted by ZergGirl

Which is pretty silly


Luaway is really consistent, she pwns.

This is confusing... are you saying we should wait until a female makes Code S before we start respecting female gamers? lol...

[Highlander]

Want to hear something interesting.

I GOT ME SOME STATS!!! 1st hand stats!!

Firstly, I got me a YouTube channel.

On said YouTube channel (before I decided to rip some BlizzCon crap on there) my viewership was 100% male (they've diversified a little since I got more scale but all this continues to hold true).

Last video I made before BlizzCon, I decided to include Mrs Highlander (just because I really enjoyed it and wanted to include her). It's here:

You Tube

You Tube

The difference between attention paid by viewers is MARKEDLY noticable when Mrs Highlander talks. We alternate talking and the 'worm' looks like a sine curve that matches.

The Insight stats show how much of each section people actually watch, so if they tune out of the video they drop and if they rewatch sections it goes up. Being dedicated to improving my channel I pay attention to this and was really suprised the difference she makes.

People know she's married, you don't get to see her, she doesn't say anything mind blowing, but whilst I've little doubt she sounds better than I, the difference is really strong.

Quick Comments

nirvAnA:

[Zanderax]

I really don't see where this is coming from.
Girls may get token spots but there are hundreds of other events and casting to live on and maybe some people like their work.

I myself hate the GSL casters and think that they should be replaced with Jeff and Adam from LAGTV but that doesn't mean I'll say Tasteless and Artosis didn't work to be there.

Just chill mate and realize that not everything has to be the way you like it.

[SLCN.Kez]

Alright, to answer a few things! I'm currently 20 (bout to turn 21) sooo im not sure if that supports your views of my maturity or helps give a bit of body to my own views on the gaming world and such. Really i posted this article because i thought it might be some good food for thought and to show some concerns i have about problems that can arise through such events like Bee and duck today where you cant deny the community thought they did a terrible job. Now, where i dont think YOU guys understand me is im saying it is a great thing that girls are in e-sports and i dont have a problem with it, as long as they get there for the right reason just like everybody else, and that i also show that you cant deny the success and extra viewership/fans that you do get from having girls in the community eg anna/rachael. You guys having all this massive views (which is fine obv) and discrediting some of what i say is also partly the reason why i wrote this article, because i think people jump to their defense WAY to quickly purely because they are girls, which is not right. I think you need to take into consideration all factors, which is why in this article i simply didnt write "girls get all these easy spots lets hate them" but i also listed some factors into why the hate for girls in e-sports might come in the first place. Furthermore, I didnt really have any problems with girls/guys at school, but a few of my friends did and i knew it greatly effected them, as im sure it does many others. As for the wall of text, i was aware of it and i was trying to break up the paragraphs a bit here n there, but tbh im to noob i didnt know how to create borders or headings or any of that stuff and was to busy in rant mode lol. (note, i cbf doing the same thing to this probable wall of text ahah). I was going to bring up the point about the slayers chick, afaik (no idea if this is/was true) she was only diamond on the KR server, which means she is obv good, but not great or near pro level, now weather or not she got the spot on slayers is because shes a girl, who knows, maybe. But i dont think that is here or there to discuss it right now.
But yeah!!! I hope you enjoyed what i wrote anyway and took what i had to say with some space from all the generalistic ideas and look at it in a objective point of view as i have tried to do, perhaps there was once or twice where the ranting took over, but i did try to justify it and i think i also did a pretty ok job and i hope people learned something. those were just some of my views and concerns, i dont hate women, i do this out of love for e-sports because i truly want to see it grow, also, the pacific qualifiers had far worse problems than the casters as well just putting it out there.

P.S sorry for bringing this discussion to the forum >.<