[aztecx]

Originally Posted by Firehawk

Hey guys,

Me and my mate are having trouble beating ZT teams that go pure roach + fast tech to siege tanks as ZP. They push at 6 minutes and it's always when I'm just starting to warp in. This is for the CyberGamer 2v2 CGo finals, and our next match is against a team we've lost twice to.

Don't have any replays unfortunately.


Thanks for any advice!

ummmm i'm a predominantly 2v2 player (season1: 3k masters 2v2r season2: 2x ZP team 78%+, ZT team 89%) but I haven't played in a while so I might not be 100% on the ball.

Generally in ZT my teammate opens 3g robo if no gas before rax scouted or early cheese. Depending on the map I either open 13p lings or 13/14p roaches (most maps I open roaches). If terran is going rine/tank and looks like he might be aggressive, it is important I think for protoss to get out an immortal (they are probably more useful in latest patch too) whilst teching to 1-base collo with some gas feed from me. I like to tech fast to lair and get roach speed and either +1 attack or +1 defense. The most important thing is to try and not get contained which is why roach speed is so important, and maneuvering your roaches between enemy base and yours in the situation of a contain. Picking off reinforcements to either buy time, weaken the enemy or split up enemy zerg/terran team. Against tanks I would most likely get +1 armour because I require my roaches to tank as much damage as possible whilst the protoss deals the damage.

Originally Posted by Tom

If done by a really good team on NA, usually I die (as ZP). Multiple Rank 1 2v2 Masters player here.

Best bet for ZP seems to be for Z to also go early-ish pool (10pool is abit safer than 14/14 given ZT often opens 6/7/8 pool) and P to do optikzero's very fast version of triple stalker rush (he does this in 2v2 as well). B/o is 12gate/14gas/16 pylon & core/18 gate, 19 stalker, stop probes on 22 (20 probes), 22 Stalker Stalker (which should bring you to 26 supply). Make second gas/pylon on 26 and then resume probes. Chronoboots should be 2x Nexus, 1x wg, and 1 on second and third stalker (not the first). Gives you 3 Stalker at around 4.30, to allow you to survive the hellion/ling timing push, which hits about this time. Depending on how hard they're rushing, you can also cb out two further stalkers off 2gate (5 stalkers around or just after the 5 minute mark).

Your aim should be to survive the attack, which hits at 4.30 to 5 minutes. In the battle, you should use the stalkers to target the hellions. Try to avoid having your stalkers isolated by his lings etc. If you survive, counter or tech as desired. Incidently, this build also works fine against the other powerful ZT timing attack, the ling/gasless marine rush, which usualy hits 30 seconds to 1 minute before you get wg up.

Yes I know Zerg is going lings and you don't have a zealot. This is why I suggest your zerg ally opens (at the latest) 10pool. Think about it like this - your job is to smash the hellions (or kite the marines) and hopefully go for a quick counter against terran if he overcommitted to the rush (hellions are pretty much useless against stalkers). I am assuming your zerg ally at least matches your opponent ling for ling.

I have never tried your build but generally what me and drone would do is still go 3g robo but make slight changes to our builds and play-style (ultra-defensive).

I would throw down 2 spinecrawlers in my base and go mass roach with quick +1 attack and only tech till tier 2 later. I will never move out against mass-ling with roaches until I have a size-able force and won't lose everything to a ling surround. Till then I make sure you hug walls to minimise the ling surface area.

Drone will still go 3g robo but focus on making more GW units and a slower tech to collosus, skipping immortal production. The biggest difference is that we don't attack until we have at least 2-3 collosus. The reason being, against good players who macro well, even if we manage to defend first ling/hellion attack and kill all their units, by the time slow roaches and gw units get across the map to attack, the enemy team will have reproduced lings and have hellion+stimmed marauder which will DESTROY our army. The weakness of their build is that the longer the game goes on, the further behind they get. My roaches become far more cost effective as the game goes on, and so does my protoss teammates units who now has collosus thrown into the mix.

EDIT: just thinking about it for a bit, I don't think that the quick stalker play can ever really win against a ling/hellion build when executed by a team of equal skill. The aoe from hellions on your lings gives a gigantic advantage to the ZT team, even with sick stalker micro. Once your lings are dead the zerg is free to surround your stalkers. After defending the first attack, what is your follow up plan? Continuing mass ling/gw production won't win you the game because a good ZT team should transition into ling/hellion/stimmed marauder which will destroy you, and that comes really quickly from a player with good macro.