[Zanderax]

I think we should vote out everyone alphabetically, stating with A and working down.

Quick Comments

	ToRDeathsFang:	i lol'd. +1 for this
	pikk0n:	i lol'd at deathsfang loling at one of his murderers.

[EveRorschach]

Is that 5-4 for CrAzerk? We need a vote for pikk0n, whoever is left! Bakalnu is right in saying a draw is the best thing to go on at the moment.

[AvPoker]

Originally Posted by Rorschach

Is that 5-4 for CrAzerk? We need a vote for pikk0n, whoever is left! Bakalnu is right in saying a draw is the best thing to go on at the moment.

Ok man
switching vote from crazerk to Rorschach

Quick Comments

	Zanderax:	OWNED!
	DtorR:	Lmao nice

[EveRorschach]

For one with an apparent pokerface, you're quite volatile hahah

[pikk0n]

Nobunaga, I didn't vote for crazerk last round because like all those non-voters, I was waiting for more votes. The points from crazerk weren't conclusive. Also, I think I know who you are.

Benji, not changing my votes here

I was waiting for 2 people to show their hands. Sorry Zanderax, pokerface and Crazerk (members of the Tortellini Family). Crazerk said last round that it's mafia wars now and it is. Pokerface, even though you tried to switch to crazerk to force the tie, it was because you were certain that crazerk would have won in a tie breaker against me. You assumed that I was a citizen. Therefore, in the event of a tiebreaker, crazerk could have claimed to have been lucky with the flip of the coin. Sorry to spoil things for you but nope. I'm a member of the Rosellini family and I was a bit uncertain as to whether Crazerk was a joker or a mafia. I mean what were the chances that Crazerk and Zanderax being in the same mafia family two rounds in a row???!!! Sonata's 4 citizen roles should have cautioned me from making such a judgement.

Here's what gave you guys away:

1. Death of DeathsFang in the first night.

It kinda got me wondering, who would want to troll Deaths. I know he has a lot of enemies so I wasn't able to narrow my list down by much. LOL! Zanderax, you are one of the people on my list because I've seen conversations between you and Deaths and well, despite being clan members, you sure love trolling him. This wasn't conclusive enough though. My next piece of evidence made my opinion of you stronger.

2. Zanderax voted for Next_rim during the daytime lynch

Now this completely gave you away. Next_rim voted for pokerface and obviously pokerface retaliated. 15 minutes later (thank you so much for doing this, Zanderax), you voted for Next_rim with the horrible claim that you were basing your votes on the last person who voted since that was the trend and Next_rim's name was the last one you read. Huh??? Seriously? There were like 3-4 people after Next_rim before pokerface!!! THEN there's of course pokerface. You missed them? YET on day 3, your eyesight improved and you voted for me who posted right above ya with the same claim of following the trend. Like I said in the last round. Inconsistency! That's what gave crazerk, you and Meatex away!

3. Death of Next_Rim on Night 2

I didn't read too much into that initially until I saw your votes. That's when I decided to go back and see who would want Next_Rim dead. Deaths are usually random but there are odd occasions when they are planned to look random. This is the one occasion. No one apart from the 2 of you voted for Next_rim during the daytime lynch and seriously, the mafia wouldn't be thinking about framing you guys so early seeing that both of you barely made a squeak. This evidence is [B]tied to point 2.[B].

4. Your (Zanderax and Pokerface) voting patterns this round

I saved both of you till last. I was waiting for you to start voting before coming to any conclusion. I made brief mention to this in my first paragraph. I wasn't sure if Crazerk was the joker because he was a little too quiet this time round. I guess he did learn something from last round. If you 2 had voted for crazerk first, it'll mean that DtorR was the mafia and crazerk was the joker. I was hoping that you'd vote for me and you did. Also, notice the amount of activity from Zanderax and Pokerface today compared to yesterday? They'd want Crazerk to be in a tie with me because they believe that Crazerk would still survive and be able to stick to the claim that he's luckier in the coin toss.

5. Zanderax and pokerface such good buddies. Aww...

I don't remember the 2 of you being so close last round when pokerface was the joker and Zanderax was a mafia. What made you such good friends that Zanderax, you'd even give pokerface a +1 reputation? How sweet this time round. *cough* Inconsistency *cough*

Conclusion: Zanderax, pokerface and crazerk are members of the Tortellini family since I'm a member of the Rosellini family and I want them dead otherwise we would have a hard time winning. Even if it means tipping the scale in the town's favour.


Here are reasons why you would want the Tortellini family gone:

1. Mafia wars so we'd aim to kill each other.

If crazerk dies now, tonight pokerface dies. Followed by Zanderax dying in tomorrow's lynch. This would mean that tonight is the last night you guys are going to get double kills.

In the event of a tie between Crazerk and I, you risk killing me (50-50) and the chain of events will be pikk0n dies today, Crazerk/Zanderax/pokerface tonight, one of them gets lynched tomorrow and depending on the situation, the last member might not die tomorrow night if my family decides that the citizens are overpowering. That'll mean another lynch on day 6 on the last standing Tortellini Family. TWO nights of double kills. Would you risk it?

2. I'm dead tonight regardless

First of all, the Tortellini Family would waste their kill on me for revenge obviously. Second of all, if you suspect that I'm the joker, I still die tonight since the professional will kill me. Prof, keep reading. I have a treat for you later on. You can still win this game by voting for Crazerk on today's daytime lynch.

3. There aren't many town members left.

Make the Tortellini Family waste one kill on me tonight and you'd save yourself because if I die from this lynch, they'd be randomly killing people trying to hit my other members. I'm giving you this extra 1% chance of winning this. Or if you really want, just gift the win to the mafia having killed your fellow citizens and vigis. Only 2 people left are the informants and they'd just kill themselves at night by mentioning something during the daytime lynch. Do the equation yourselves. 2 nights of double kills if I die today or 1 last night of double kill? The death of the Tortellini Family benefits both you townfolks and myself. Also, the mafia has been pretty good at killing townfolks off.

4. I have nothing to lose and my lynches last round have been rather accurate for those who are around who's still alive

Having already won mafia, I am here for the fun of it. The doc's death means that to win this game, I'll have to shut my mouth completely because of my reputation from last round for being extremely strategic. That's just not me. This will be my last contribution to this round of mafia.

I reiterate that I am a member of the Rosellini Family. The joker and our good old informant would know that I'm not lying about my role.

Joker, don't worry. You're not screwed yet if you kill them since you're still suspected of being a Rosellini unless of course you don't agree with my arguments and vote with crazerk. Your chances of winning would go down the drain. Would you want the Tortellini to mistakenly kill you tomorrow night by helping them kill me during this daytime lynch?


LASTLY, to the professional:

You can win this round. I strongly believe that Nobunaga investigated me last night. Also, do note that Nobunaga voted for Paroxysm yesterday. Informants can see if a person is suspicious or not. NOT their roles so he must have investigated Parox 2 nights ago, and last night, investigated me. Is it a high enough chance there for you to use your last remaining kill? You can always wait for tomorrow to kill him after tonight's mafia bloodshed. He feels strongly that I am a mafia and should be voted for. I already made points about Zanderax and pokerface being in the same family.

TO EVERYONE ELSE: Been fun guys. If I survived this daytime lynch, I'll have one last night time to post something. Otherwise, good luck good luck to the mafia. Not to you lousy town people who guaranteed your loss. Heh...Pikk0n signing off for this round of mafia.

Quick Comments

EveRorschach:

because i enjoy the read/commitment from you

[pikk0n]

Now the only way to save Crazerk is to force a tie between me and Crazerk and hope the flip of the coin falls in his favour or to hope that the townsfolks aren't convinced by my arguments. So, pokerface and Zanderax, does forcing a tie really result in me getting owned now? Hmm..... Sorry. I know you were referring to Rorshach but I had to use that in this context.

[jackwong]

Pikkon is right, I'll vote for Crazerk

[DtorR]

Are you allowed to post what role you have?

[nard]

vote pikkon to keep it tied even though i think hes a joker

[Nobunaga]

I found it quite interesting that for someone who invests in this game more than others, to conveniently “miss” a vote. Especially after asking him to post first, then set him up the next round. One thing is for sure, pikk0n is very good at manipulating people to do what he wants, which is how he won the previous mafia game. This time, it’s the same thing again.

It was implied by pikk0n that the Rosellini family tried to kill Crazerk on the round that LennX died. The doctor saved Crazerk, and prompted pikk0n to ask Crazerk to vote first. The chance of Crazerk’s vote to kill a mafia is slim; there were 16 people still alive at the beginning of that round, and 10 of them would have been innocent kills. If by chance, Crazerk had chosen his mafia family, they still had their mafia “buffer” to try and keep them from being lynched.

It turned out better than expected.

Paroxysm died. The next night, the Rossellini killed mustapusta, who turned out to be the doctor. Having wasted their previous try, they decided to hit someone else. The Tortellini family on the other hand, failed a kill. Either the doctor was the best doctor ever, or they attacked a Survivor. No one would know. Pikk0n now has the perfect chance to setup Crazerk from the previous round.
Why was Paroxysm killed? It seems that so far, the mafia has been going for the safe kills. Deathfang was a “safe kill”, which was why both families went for him. Who was next? Next_rim, Crazerk and Paroxysm, because they were the ones who talked the most in the day round. Next_rim died, Crazerk was supposedly saved. The professional went on a whim, and killed LennX because he changed votes and killed a citizen.

Paroxysm wasn’t killed. Was there a reason why? No one knew at the time. I voted Paroxysm because of this reason. He was vocal, but he was not dead. I felt that this was better than picking randomly like what the other people did.

After pikk0n’s giant post, I had him on either Mafia or Joker, but I am definitely leaning towards Mafia now that I’ve thought things through and seen through his inconsistency. First he was “you don’t want to vote for me, you will be sorry”. Now it becomes “I am the mafia, listen to me and the citizens might have a chance of winning”.

The other problem with pikk0n’s argument is that the entire crux of his “parting gift” plan is centred on the fact that Crazerk is a mafia. What happens if he isn’t? If Crazerk dies now, and isn’t mafia, who dies next? No one knows, because we’re back to square one and we’re under the mercy of two mafia families. The only consistent thing pikk0n has said is “I have won a previous mafia round, so I’m not concerned on winning anymore”. Let’s be honest, we’re in a Starcraft forum talking about strats, and how to win. I don’t think there’s a person here that doesn’t want to win, even in a mafia forum game.

He’s playing it like he’s a Joker, but you don’t need to kill the Joker to win. The priority kill of the mafia will be to kill everyone else, and if the people think pikk0n is a Joker, he won’t get lynched. What's more, is that he redirected another target for the Professional, namely me. But wait, what did pikk0n say before earlier in the post?

Only 2 people left are the informants and they'd just kill themselves at night by mentioning something during the daytime lynch.

Guess what happens when the Professional wastes his last kill on someone that isn't on his hit list? Two people die. Considering I have been the most vocal poster this round, I can assume that my chances of living aren't very high. However, pikk0n just accused the most vocal poster of being an informant when he said a few paragraphs above that the informants would remain silent? This inconsistency further leads me to believe that the only multi-kills that will be happening tonight will all be in pikk0n's favor.

We usually have no control over who dies at night, but tonight is different. Unfortunately, since the doctor is dead, there’s a high chance that Crazerk will be a target tonight, which means there will be one more “random” target. When there is a clear mafia in front of us, I don’t think we can afford to let him go and hope “the other team kills him”. If he doesn’t die, then after tonight’s kills we’ll be able to press further into this matter.

[Benji]

1. Meatex
2. Nobunaga - Voted for pikk0n
3. crAzerk - Voted for pikk0n
4. BakaInu - Voted for Crazerk
5. LennX - ***DEAD*** Killed by the Professional (Citizen)
6. HDPhoenix - ***DEAD*** Killed by the Citizens (Citizen)
7. pokerface - Voted for Rorschach
8. Paroxysm - ***DEAD*** Killed by the Citizens (Vigilante)
9. Deathsfang - ***DEAD*** Killed by Both Families (Arsonist)
10. Skrawl
11. SONATA - ***DEAD*** Killed by the Citizens (Citizen)
12. mustapusta - ***DEAD*** Killed by the Rossellini Family (Doctor)
13. Zanderax - Voted for pikk0n
14. DtorR - Voted for Crazerk
15. nard - Voted for pikk0n
16. Rorschach - Voted for Crazerk
17. pikk0n - Voted for Crazerk
18. jackwong - Voted for Crazerk
19. Amornthep
20. Zergtastic
21. Next_rim - ***DEAD*** Killed by the Tortellini Family (Vigilante)

5 Votes for Crazerk
4 Votes for pikk0n
1 Vote for Rorschach


Still 24 hours to go, just wanted to make my job easier tomorrow :P

[pikk0n]

Good post Nobunaga, but that's because you investigated Parox and I and found that we are suspicious. The main thing working against you here, Mr. Informant, is that you voted for Paroxysm yesterday. Even if I were to die now, the prof will get a free win from killing you, an informant. Am I really manipulating you for my benefit? Would I win? Nope. Would my family win? Maybe. They stand a higher chance winning than if the other family was still alive. We can only be so lucky till the Tortellini hits them though I am very sure that the Tortellini would be aiming to hit me sooner or later. Maybe they even tried yesterday and failed miserably. It's impossible for me to win another mafia round after the last without the doc like I mentioned in my post. I was patiently waiting for the mafia to hit me or for the daytime players to lynch me which never happened. After the death of the doc, I'd have to be completely passive which is not my style which I already mentioned too. The death of the doc in no way benefited me because of my nature. Town, ever heard of the saying? Your enemy's enemy is your friend even for the day. We need you to win mafia and you need us to win mafia. Manipulative? Yeah, indeed. Very much but that's just the way it is. We can't rely on being able to hit the other mafia family every night with our current strike rate of killing all the non-mafias. LOL! What would happen if we were to have a 3-3 mafia war at the end? The flip of the coin will decide who'll win during a daytime lynch which is completely unfair.

Basically, what I have done is sacrificed myself to a prof who might unwittingly think that I am the joker and waste his kill, to the Tortellinis who would be hating me so much now and to the town. Free kill here. If I survived to tomorrow, I'm not going to last another daytime lynch having played my hands. I never lied in my posts and this is no different. I may make 1 or 2 misjudgements occasionally but I make it known that I am not certain. This time however, I am 100% certain pokerface and Zanderax are mafia, 90% certain crazerk is their fellow member and 80% certain that you're the informant or even our friendly joker. Would a citizen really want to be so vocal now with no proper leads?

Um... About the so called inconsistency as to who I asked the players to vote for, I never said I'm the mafia, vote for me. I maintained my stance that I'm the mafia but do NOT vote for me because I'm going to be killed tonight. You'll remain sorry at the end if you do vote for me. You'll need to deal with 2 nights with double kills. I'm being honest here. You might be lucky in the tie and kill crazerk but if you kill me, you'll be wasting 1 daytime lynch if my family decides to let you guys kill their last member during a dayphase.

As I said, you want that 1% extra chance of winning, you'd kill crazerk today and let the prof or the mafia kill me tonight. Of course, the prof loses if he believes nobunaga's post and good on the informant for surviving another night. Or the prof risks saving his kill for tomorrow night and only go after nobunaga after seeing my role upon death (if the Tortellini decides to not kill me. )

You being the most vocal? Seriously.... LOL! Don't make me laugh. Apart from that long post, Crazerk has been the most vocal person. I exposed you when you held firm to that vote on me and your vote on Parox yesterday. It's the natural thing to do, voting for parox and I if you have information about our role. Suspicious?

It's only natural that you'd want revenge upon me for setting the professional on you but that's definitely a move that'll benefit my family. I'll help the neutral if it helps my family.

One last thing about being manipulative. This is the last move from me and all it does is it ensures that the Rosellini family has no Tortellini to worry about. The manipulative moves are over after this phase and it does bring it down to 2 mafia vs 7 non-mafias. Do you like your odds? The moves after that will be entirely up to you. I would be dead and wouldn't be able to influence the play any further. So, it's entirely up to you whether you wish to be used for one last time to help my family out. I am a risk taker and this is a risk I see worth taking. I took the risk of helping the townsfolk out last round to improve my chances of winning mafia but at the same time, had the citizens made correct votes, they could have easily found me out. How does your move benefit the townsfolk apart from your own personal agendas? You're just saving yourself from the prof tonight and seeing that you've investigated 2 suspicious people, you're most probably going to investigate a non-suspicious tonight.

[crAzerk]

Actually Benji, making those kind of posts help us ALOT, to see things better

I'm reading your post twice through pikk0n and I've no idea how you arrived at this conclusion:

Inconsistency! That's what gave crazerk, you and Meatex away!

Everything that you've outlined has to do with Zanderax and pokerface being Mafia, but I don't see why suddenly I have become implicated just because these two (whether they are mafia or not) are voting with me or something.


And to quote what nobunga said:

The only consistent thing pikk0n has said is “I have won a previous mafia round, so I’m not concerned on winning anymore”. Let’s be honest, we’re in a Starcraft forum talking about strats, and how to win. I don’t think there’s a person here that doesn’t want to win, even in a mafia forum game.

Why are you guys NOT voting for someone who is definitely a Mafia (he already declared it) and instead voting for someone who is only possibly a Mafia?

To be fair, there's the possibility that pikk0n is the Joker actually and he is just playing his brilliant manipulation game of reverse reverse reverse psychology to mindf-k with us all, but from my understanding from his tone and the way he has written, it seems to elaborate and sound a post to be totally made up.


To re-iterate - pikk0n has more or less confessed to being a Mafia. And I have DENIED that I am a Mafia. Why on earth are you still voting for me?


(Though at the back of my mind, I cant shake off the nagging suspicion that pikk0n may be Joker though. Is the Informant sure ? :/ Don't step forward though please. Don't be a pikk0n. )

[BaKaiNu]

Originally Posted by crAzerk

I'm reading your post twice through pikk0n and I've no idea how you arrived at this conclusion:



Everything that you've outlined has to do with Zanderax and pokerface being Mafia, but I don't see why suddenly I have become implicated just because these two (whether they are mafia or not) are voting with me or something.


And to quote what nobunga said:

Why are you guys NOT voting for someone who is definitely a Mafia (he already declared it) and instead voting for someone who is only possibly a Mafia?

To be fair, there's the possibility that pikk0n is the Joker actually and he is just playing his brilliant manipulation game of reverse reverse reverse psychology to mindf-k with us all, but from my understanding from his tone and the way he has written, it seems to elaborate and sound a post to be totally made up.


To re-iterate - pikk0n has more or less confessed to being a Mafia. And I have DENIED that I am a Mafia. Why on earth are you still voting for me?


(Though at the back of my mind, I cant shake off the nagging suspicion that pikk0n may be Joker though. Is the Informant sure ? :/ Don't step forward though please. Don't be a pikk0n. )

Thats because if he is really a mafia, we have 1 target less to lynch at the moment, since the priority is the 5 other mafia. It helps reduce the burden of searching for 6 mafia instead. That being said, if we vote for him, and his a joker. We're just falling into his trap. That being said, you denying being a mafia by pushing all the votes to pikkon seems to be more of an opportunistic saving your ass by pushing votes to pikkon rather than getting other people lynched other than you and pikkon. That may be true, but we prefer a more solid argument from you, rather than just pushing your votes to pikkon.

[Meatex]

not paying attention but is pikkon saying I am mafia, again?
Must kill him quickly then
vote pikkon

[pikk0n]

Originally Posted by Meatex

not paying attention but is pikkon saying I am mafia, again?
Must kill him quickly then
vote pikkon

LOL, Meatex. I said that Pokerface, Zanderax and Crazerk are the mafia and they are members of the Tortellini family. I AM a mafia.

[crAzerk]

That may be true, but we prefer a more solid argument from you, rather than just pushing your votes to pikkon.

How about this - There is no solid argument whatsoever for me being Mafia.
If you reread pikk0n's argument again, the only supposed Mafia-indication for me is because of 2 others' voting patterns which somehow implicated me.

[ToRskrawL]

Vote for Pikkon

I have a feeling that he really is the mafia, you see, pikkon is really tricky. hes making us think that hes joker by just randomly admitting hes mafia, but really, he probably is the mafia

[Zanderax]

Originally Posted by pikk0n

2. Zanderax voted for Next_rim during the daytime lynch

Now this completely gave you away. Next_rim voted for pokerface and obviously pokerface retaliated. 15 minutes later (thank you so much for doing this, Zanderax), you voted for Next_rim with the horrible claim that you were basing your votes on the last person who voted since that was the trend and Next_rim's name was the last one you read. Huh??? Seriously? There were like 3-4 people after Next_rim before pokerface!!! THEN there's of course pokerface. You missed them? YET on day 3, your eyesight improved and you voted for me who posted right above ya with the same claim of following the trend. Like I said in the last round. Inconsistency! That's what gave crazerk, you and Meatex away!

The whole point of being lazy is that I don't have to pay attention to details. AH DUH!

Originally Posted by pikk0n

5. Zanderax and pokerface such good buddies. Aww...

I don't remember the 2 of you being so close last round when pokerface was the joker and Zanderax was a mafia. What made you such good friends that Zanderax, you'd even give pokerface a +1 reputation? How sweet this time round. *cough* Inconsistency *cough*

Might I point out that you have also given me a +1 rep this round. I gave it because Rorschach wanted someone else to vote for pikk0n (Now I know why, it's cus you're mafia) and he switched his vote from CrAzerk to Rorschach. How is that not funny?

Originally Posted by pikk0n

I'm a member of the Rosellini family

Why would we trust a mafia?

All in all a pretty weak argument. Maybe you should think about it more when you decided to come out of the closet (as mafia not as gay)

I'm sure Benji wouldn't pick me as Mafia again, let alone CrAzerk and I together. Nice knowing you pikk0n.

Votes Pikk0n

P.S Tortellini, you night want to take him out. He's your enemy.

[Meatex]

Pikkon ahead by 2 votes fyi
to those wanting the tie thingy