[SLCN.NXZ]

So basically troy did indeed lie to you. He said he would pay you, he didn't. The general consensus is that yes he was in the wrong but by no means was he intentionally out to screw you over and he does a lot of good things in the community despite these issues. Now if you'd come out, posted your logs, said that it was unprofessional and raised the issue, without calling him a scammer, there wouldn't be a problem here.

Your saying for us to kick someone out who has done a lot for the tournament scene in SEA and calling him a liar, cheat and scammer. We're replying that while he is in the wrong here he isnt as bad as you make it out to be and public defamation of this level isn't really required. With basically every post you make its making us side more with the person we are familiar with and not the one insulting him. Stay professional and I'm sure it can be sorted out without this much issue.

Quick Comments

	Seffy:	Truth. :)
	SLCN.Kez:	Couldn't have said it better myself
	SLCN.ARze:	well said ncz

[ToRPandarine]

Originally Posted by Wally

No one is against you satiini, people just want you to calm down because we know you're angry but you have to realise going off the Skype logs most people here aren't going to immediately side with you. also calling someone a scammer is quite a bold term as I doubt troy makes any money from not paying you. No one doesn't want you to get paid, but instead of going off the deep end at them, you have to realise their point of view.

May I also add, as a community person (sortaish), SEA server is the SEA, a few other Asian countries and the Oceanic region smashed into one server. We're pretty small. Even smaller when you think about where everyone actually goes to play (NA or KR mostly). And we're a pretty close knit community.

And by extension, the community here at sc2sea is just as close knit. Calling a member who has done quite a bit for the community is big. It's even bigger if its out of the blue. Even bigger if your very first post is that.

So, yea of course we'll not side with you at first. But that doesn't mean we're against you. We listen, we think about it (mostly...sometimes we just act without thinking!) and then we'll decide what to do.

And it helps not to be snarky or call us a pile of turds. Not the best of ways to start your PR.

[Myth.ForbZ]

I'm so happy Abbott won.

Quick Comments

RuineD:

quality contribution, as per usual.

[Satiini]

Originally Posted by UHF

This is getting off topic. There are two accusations and one added by Domo:

1. Phoenix was not abiding by the terms of the contract given to Satiini.
2. Troy was trying to do damage control but that included lying to Satiini by saying he would cover the shortcomings Satiini was owed, when Troy he never had the ability to do so.
3. Multiple sums of money not paid by the pX weekly.

Satiini is obviously angry and lashing out, and has made threats on the basis that nothing gets done about the situation - I get it, I'm ******* angry too when people don't pay up.

There's no need for the greater community to bait him into getting more upset, just so you can poke fun of him afterwards when he gets more angry. Wait for Phoenix to respond, or others directly affected.

Im glad someone actually understood what it was about, instead of just buddying up with someone they apparently know since years long ago, money changes everything especially in hands of a young guy, I know many who have started scamming when money got involved. Eventually this thread was just to let people know that they should watch out, tbh I know and accepted I would never get the money immidietly after the first time he said it would come on a date, and it didnt come. Personally I could not care less what you do with the info I gave you, feel free to do what you want and when money starts getting involved maybe even more you'll start wondering where it all went In few days I will forget about this thread and everything included to it, good luck to you guys and I hope you dont lose too much money on the first time to him.

Quick Comments

	RuineD:	enjoy being relevant in the EU scene, good luck.
	SLCN.Wally:	you're being more immature ruined. as expected ALL IS RIGHT

[SLCN.Kez]

Only thing more annoying than being an immature prick is being a facetious immature prick.

Quick Comments

ToRPandarine:

#winnerwinner

[ChowMuddha]

Just curious, does anyone in sea even get a salary?

Quick Comments

	ThatGuyDoMo:	i thought PiG did afaik?
	SLCN.Wally:	yes
	SLCN.Kez:	A few have, but it's very little, and only the top 2-3 players would qualify for it
	SLCN.NXZ:	PiG does not recieve a salary. To my knowlege, neither do Nv or fray players. May be wrong however
	ROOTPetraeus:	No fray/Nv players are on salary but I thought PiG was o.o How the **** does he survive.
	syfSoundwave:	Pretty sure Mindfreak paid salary but obviously they're not relevant to SC2 anymore :P
	rezyn8:	SLCN team gets paid in rez love
	VoxMSI.Rogue:	serpapic nexus pays salary kez?
	SLCNPezz:	I get paid a salary but I guess I'm a much better player than the rest of SEA.
	Malice:	avant gave me 10 salaries
	sR.Kumo:	^ LOL #winner

[ROOTPetraeus]

Just want to add, it took me several months to chase up the money I was owed from pX tournaments. Although Troy seems to be a good guy and I don't think he is responsible for the money involved, he blatantly lied to me on several occasions and made many promises that weren't kept. I think if he was more honest/informed about the money situation, it would be a lot better for everyone involved.

Quick Comments

ThatGuyDoMo:

thankyou, exactly what i've been trying to add to this

[TtSYF.tRoy]

I would like to personally apologise to everyone involved in this ugly scenario.
Ive learnt a really important lesson that you cant promise things whether this is money or solid prizes or team gear if you cant actually supply this.
I will contact everyone from pX weekly that i have delayed payment, and i WILL be more organised with payments in the future.
I also apologise to the SEA scene for this.

Quick Comments

	ProAnnn:	(Y) MANLY RESPONSE. I SARPORT(SUPPORT) YOU
	SLCN.ARze:	troy #1!

[syfChase]

Guys I'm back I just got internet again

Guys what did I miss?

Quick Comments

ace223:

Good call, you win the internet tonight

[Pandan]

Seems like a young kid with good intentions bit off more than he could chew.

Originally Posted by Satiini

Also I've met alot of scammers like this before, this is a very typical way in midlevel esports teams were the sponsors or such pay to the managers, the managers then keep the money to themselves, maybe send a little part of the money to where
its actually supposed to go, but keep the majority to themselves and then claim to the players/ tournament winners or such that they never acutally recieve it themselves, sadly most of the time even the sponsors are not aware of this.

I would think its unlikely that this kid received 'sponsor' money. It's not theft, it's an overzealous kid with plans of grandeur.

Originally Posted by Satiini

I've played in a 2 dozen pro teams

1: Define 'pro'
2: Two dozen? If that's even remotely accurate, it's not a stat to be used to sound impressive; I'd be embarrassed.

Quick Comments

syfChadMann:

Wise truths.

[ToRSpookToR]

best of luck to everyone involved looks like a great opportunity!!!

Quick Comments

	syfChadMann:	ROFL
	mGGSlayer:	LOL
	Plottel:	Go crawl back in your hole, come back when you have something interesting to say.
	RuineD:	av regrets
	|Erasmus|:	Best post 2013
	Baldie:	LOL

[eCKo`Tazerenix]

Wow so looking forward to this

[syfChadMann]

ctrl+f tgun

0/10

Quick Comments

ToRPandarine:

ctrl+f chadmann :: even more disappointed :l

[Eddie]

I've renamed the thread, as scam is probably not the correct wording for the situation.

Couple of things to take on board Satiini.

You seem to cut out a bit of Skype chats, probably best to supply the whole conversations, or at least more replies/back and forth.

You say sometimes he didn't reply as fell asleep - This might well be true given the timezone difference.

As a lot of people have mentioned tRoy has done a lot of good things for this community. Most of them volunteer, and probably a bit of money out of his own pocket. Scamming implies he's taking profits for himself, but i don't think that would be the case. He even donates his time to tournaments he has no financial role with. And from my own interactions online, he seems very mature for his age, and keen to help/develop the scene.

It also appears tRoy has been depending on his associate 'James' for 100%, or the majority of px's funding, so the blame might not be entirely his, or of his design.

A little research into the team/SEA scene/community before signing up might have led to a more informed decision. pX are mostly known for running $10 tournaments, i'm very surprised they offered you salary, or would offer/be able to offer the same to anyone else. They don't really have known brand sponsors; they're privately funded from what i can tell.

The way in which you've approached this has rubbed a lot of people the wrong way. Next time it would be best to take a less aggressive/threatening avenue, and just present your case and the facts.


For any managers/admins out there who may find themselves in similar situations/want to avoid one my advice would be, if you aren't prepared to take the risk and pay all the money yourself if things don't work out, don't do it to start with. Don't write cheques you cant pay.

For example for every Masters Cup i set up my own personal funds ready to pay out the total prizepool. I then pay all the players 2-3 days later. (Not immediately as we need time to review, and there has been issues with smurfing, etc in the past). I then contact all the sponsors, email summary, etc, and wait for them to reimburse me. This may take a while, they might have systems in place to pay out all clients at end of the month, etc. However if they don't, or takes a long time, it's my problem. Doesn't matter if it's a $10 Cup, $100, $1000, etc. If you don't have enough/or are confident your sponsors will pay/and promptly, you probably shouldn't do it.

If you run a team/tournament you are putting your own reputation on the line. It all comes back to your responsibility. So do what you got to do, have everything sorted and available to be paid up front.

Quick Comments

	NDG.Stitch:	I love you Eddie
	Lokth:	Pretty sure Im still waiting on $10 from a GPD win eddy :P not that I care <3
	Reere:	+1
	VorteX:	=1

[ETL.snexwang]

I keep reading "tRoy" as T-Roy a la "T-Pain".

I'm never going to stop doing this.

Quick Comments

sR.Kumo:

well at least I know it's not just me now

[Satiini]

Originally Posted by Eddie

I've renamed the thread, as scam is probably not the correct wording for the situation.

Couple of things to take on board Satiini.

You seem to cut out a bit of Skype chats, probably best to supply the whole conversations, or at least more replies/back and forth.

You say sometimes he didn't reply as fell asleep - This might well be true given the timezone difference.

As a lot of people have mentioned tRoy has done a lot of good things for this community. Most of them volunteer, and probably a bit of money out of his own pocket. Scamming implies he's taking profits for himself, but i don't think that would be the case. He even donates his time to tournaments he has no financial role with. And from my own interactions online, he seems very mature for his age, and keen to help/develop the scene.

It also appears tRoy has been depending on his associate 'James' for 100%, or the majority of px's funding, so the blame might not be entirely his, or of his design.

A little research into the team/SEA scene/community before signing up might have led to a more informed decision. pX are mostly known for running $10 tournaments, i'm very surprised they offered you salary, or would offer/be able to offer the same to anyone else. They don't really have known brand sponsors; they're privately funded from what i can tell.

The way in which you've approached this has rubbed a lot of people the wrong way. Next time it would be best to take a less aggressive/threatening avenue, and just present your case and the facts.


For any managers/admins out there who may find themselves in similar situations/want to avoid one my advice would be, if you aren't prepared to take the risk and pay all the money yourself if things don't work out, don't do it to start with. Don't write cheques you cant pay.

For example for every Masters Cup i set up my own personal funds ready to pay out the total prizepool. I then pay all the players 2-3 days later. (Not immediately as we need time to review, and there has been issues with smurfing, etc in the past). I then contact all the sponsors, email summary, etc, and wait for them to reimburse me. This may take a while, they might have systems in place to pay out all clients at end of the month, etc. However if they don't, or takes a long time, it's my problem. Doesn't matter if it's a $10 Cup, $100, $1000, etc. If you don't have enough/or are confident your sponsors will pay/and promptly, you probably shouldn't do it.

If you run a team/tournament you are putting your own reputation on the line. It all comes back to your responsibility. So do what you got to do, have everything sorted and available to be paid up front.

I cut of the random parts where im just asking if his around, and also random talk about other things cups / what we were going to play in the future and what he wanted me to play and so on, because I was still planning to remain in the team because I thought he was trustworthy.

[pX_kiss]

Hi guy I have read that there have been some issues with the current state of pX. From what I have read this is very troubling since I have just taken over pX as it head and owner. I completely understand that this are some major problems but as it new owner I wish to settle all these problems and take it back into a great future. If pX still owes you money or you have any other issues or questions please direct them to me personally on Skype. My Skype is px_kiss and yes I understand this will be very hard to bounce back from but I am hoping that we as a community can all put in and make it happen. Now when I came into this position I was unaware of these problems so if you could please add me on Skype and discuss it with myself personally I would greatly appreciate it.

Again sorry for any of the problems the past management team left behind I will try my hardest to correct it all in a timely and professional fashion

Quick Comments

	syfPhoenix:	Who are you? o.O
	SLCN.Wally:	who the ****?!?!?! when did troy become not head of px
	syfRize:	Burn the witch!

[VB_Blake]

Originally Posted by pX_kiss

Hi guy I have read that there have been some issues with the current state of pX. From what I have read this is very troubling since I have just taken over pX as it head and owner. I completely understand that this are some major problems but as it new owner I wish to settle all these problems and take it back into a great future. If pX still owes you money or you have any other issues or questions please direct them to me personally on Skype. My Skype is px_kiss and yes I understand this will be very hard to bounce back from but I am hoping that we as a community can all put in and make it happen. Now when I came into this position I was unaware of these problems so if you could please add me on Skype and discuss it with myself personally I would greatly appreciate it.

Again sorry for any of the problems the past management team left behind I will try my hardest to correct it all in a timely and professional fashion

I have been mildly out of touch with everything pX lately, but I am 90% sure this guy is not legit.

As for the thread; Throughout my time in pX I have never really received anything as a player, no payment or gear or jersey's, but I always found that acceptable because as a team it was our collective duty to perform in order to attract sponsors in order to receive goodies from sponsors. Troy admirably tried to make things happen, but often to no avail. I feel this should reflect on the situation, as it shows Troy as simply a guy who wants things to be better for the people he is responsible for. I have no reason to doubt he had pure intentions about this and merely saw a way to improve the pX name. A way that was attractive enough to make him neglect securing a reliable source of income. The 'contract' that was made was not official, but regardless I think a quasi-contract existed and its because of this degree Troy should bare responsibility for this situation, not James (which it appears he has).

That said, he should only bare blame for an honest mistake by relying on someone who was not reliable, and for promising things he was not sure could be delivered. Not as a scammer or someone who had ulterior motives to his actions. Hopefully Troy can reflect on what happened here and try to avoid similar mistakes.

Edit: pXKiss is James, manager of the CoD division and apparently manager of the entire team now.

Quick Comments

SLCN.CautioN:

+1

[syfChadMann]

I was going to post this in the other thread about new management for pX - after clicking on a chatbox link to the thread. Then realised it was totally out of context to the thread so I'm posting here instead.

Originally Posted by Satiini

what exactly do my results have to do with anything ?

I think people are trying to justify not giving you a salary.. ala 'you're not worth a salary'. Which is subjective and no one is allowed to answer that except for the guy that offers you salary. The issue isn't 'should he even get a salary' its 'this guy was told he would get X and didn't - thats bad'

Satiinii, I would cut your losses and just walk away from pX and move on with your life. How much is even owed anyway? How old are you (just out of personal interest - gives a bit of clarity to the issue)? and was the agreement to pay you in your contract, and was that contract signed?

Quick Comments

mGGDaedalus:

nice to see a voice of reason in here

[VB_Blake]

Chad I believe it was 200 (for the one month?), and I heard talk/rumours of a contract but I don't believe one was actually signed, properly drafted.

That said, I wasn't involved in this situation so I am going by assumptions I gathered from sporadically checking the skype chat/this thread