[Edrahil]

While people may question the biasness of tyler and geoff's comments, I feel that in the latest SOTG, their analysis of the current state of the zerg v protoss metagame is spot on.

On a side note, I personally feel in 1 month from now (assuming no further patching), the average zerg pro will be taking the average protoss pro to town. Once they learn not to a-move with their infesters and that massing 200/200 with 100 larva and 5kminerals 2kgas is not necessary the best way to play versus protoss.

[Starcraftmazter]

OP thread? **** yeh!


******* protoss man. Two protoss walk into a bar, and they realise it's the finals of a tournament!










And then there's this shitty race






IEM Terran winrates:
vZ: 32%
vP: 17%

TSL Terran winrates:
vZ: 42%
vP: 37%



Terran, the only true race of skill and micro, **** yeh!

[dennistoo]

Originally Posted by Edrahil

While people may question the biasness of tyler and geoff's comments, I feel that in the latest SOTG, their analysis of the current state of the zerg v protoss metagame is spot on.

On a side note, I personally feel in 1 month from now (assuming no further patching), the average zerg pro will be taking the average protoss pro to town. Once they learn not to a-move with their infesters and that massing 200/200 with 100 larva and 5kminerals 2kgas is not necessary the best way to play versus protoss.

I agreed. 200 food with few Infestors will melt protoss army easily and if they keep larva count high, the ability to remax zerg army is easier than protoss.

I'm not QQ-ing because my inability a to beat a zerg but even 3Gate expand seems so hard now. A non-macro zerg will drop down roach den and save larva and pushes EVEN without speed upgrade. Even the first wave of roaches failed, 2nd wave of mass speedlings will melt any protoss forces... talking about forcefield imba.. who can drop do a forcefield like MC?

[TAEdgE]

SCM it's funny to me that i know you actually believe any imbalance towards terran just to inflate your skill level.

[Micksterzone]

For the people who say that with zerg, one mistake is all it takes, same with terran and protoss.
A few days ago, i countered someones harass, and eventually got ahead. Anyway, so i got a semi protoss deathball, of about 120 supply at around about 12 minutes, and i went to the watchtower in Metalopolis (which is on top of the ramp). I realised there wa an army there, and because i was 0.5 weconds late of moving down my army which was at least 1.5 times the strength of his, because of his low economy, demolished through me.

[Xeen]

Originally Posted by Starcraftmazter

IEM Terran winrates:
vZ: 32%
vP: 17%

TSL Terran winrates:
vZ: 42%
vP: 37%

GSL WC Terran winrates:
vZ: 62.5%
vP: 61.6%

Wait what the ****? Statistics can vary between leagues based on who plays and who wins? How can this be?!!?

Moron.

[ZergGirl]

Originally Posted by nGenLight

Think of it this way, when you begun to play Starcraft, it gave you an option to select difficulty: Normal/Difficult. If you picked Zerg, you have chosen difficult. It is way harder to learn/play but the more experienced/better you get, the "imbalance" starts getting lower and lower.

I get it. I must outplay random shitheads on ladder to be on equal footing. ty.
Nice e-sport, seems balanced.

[Xeen]

Originally Posted by ZergGirl

I get it. I must outplay random shitheads on ladder to be on equal footing. ty.
Nice e-sport, seems balanced.

Terran was hardest to start with in BW, yet the most successful at high level.

Nice e-sport, seemed balanced.

The above is not sarcasm.

[Makra]

Lol@ the protoss keyboard. No need to warp in any units eh?

[Xeen]

Originally Posted by Makra

Lol@ the protoss keyboard. No need to warp in any units eh?

Or use forcefield, apparently.

At least make it accurate yo

[jason]

Originally Posted by Xeen

GSL WC Terran winrates:
vZ: 62.5%
vP: 61.6%

Wait what the ****? Statistics can vary between leagues based on who plays and who wins? How can this be?!!?

Moron.

chill out?

[Starcraftmazter]

Originally Posted by Xeen

GSL WC Terran winrates:

Implying WC was not a retarded tournament where some people could not properly prepare for their opponents.

Originally Posted by EdgE

SCM it's funny to me that i know you actually believe any imbalance towards terran just to inflate your skill level.

Surely inflating my skill level is like inflating a hot air balloon that has reached the boundary of space.

[ToRDeathsFang]

Lol its really interesting people's comments.

At December, everyone was complaining about Zerg being OP and dreading facing Zerg, now,in April, it is Protoss which every Zerg is complaining about. In 2 months, after another nerf/buff, Zerg will once again be overpowered.

There is one, just one way to make an RTS game balanced, and that is if there is only one race. Needless to say this isnt going to happen but the point is it's a never-ending cycle now. One race is OP, then another and back to the first race or whatever.

[Eryx]

I don't think that there is an OP race at the moment but I do find that spell casters are becoming more and more the units that determine the battle and the flow of the game and this leads to a skew toward protoss early due to the effectiveness of sentries.

Spanishiwas ZvX style supports the assertion that spell casters are the determining factor as infestors become the main threat and skew battles toward zerg.

Terrans seem to struggle with exploring ghost play because of how gas heavy they making them difficult to mass s and get more standard tech though I'm sure we've all seen some sick emps win games. with Terran but generally you don't see them coming out of a battle better than they maybe should have because their spell casters aren't as directly effective. Perhaps if nuke drop time was reduced or reducible via upgrade we would see some absolutely ridiculous crap come out from them that may piss us off equally as much as some feel with sentries/infestors.

The above is speculation based on observation of high level games rather than my own experience because I'm actually terrible.

[Edrahil]

Originally Posted by Starcraftmazter

Implying WC was not a retarded tournament where some people could not properly prepare for their opponents.




Surely inflating my skill level is like inflating a hot air balloon that has reached the boundary of space.

Hmm,

Most DPS/cost unit of the game - Marines, most DPS/second ability/unit in the game - EMP from ghosts (vs Protoss).

Small wonder, that in situations where both players prepared just as well, terran has a better winrate.

I think it is obvious from this statistic - GSL Terran Winrates
vT = 50%

That the only fair match up versus Terran.... is Terran.

[jason]

Originally Posted by Edrahil

Hmm,

Most DPS/cost unit of the game - Marines, most DPS/second ability/unit in the game - EMP from ghosts (vs Protoss).

Small wonder, that in situations where both players prepared just as well, terran has a better winrate.

I think it is obvious from this statistic - GSL Terran Winrates
vT = 50%

That the only fair match up versus Terran.... is Terran.

2 storms, bye marines.

colossi , bye marines.

feedback, bye ghosts.

[Rhodan]

Man some of the repllies and messages in this thread make my head hurt, though thats always going to come up when people argue about balance.

I don't think you'll find anyone, anywhere that would argue Zerg isn't the hardest of the three races to play, and personally I think its far harder to play than Protoss or Terran, but alot of people seem to have this notion that difficulty to play = imbalance when I really don't see that as being the case. Is it unfair? Absolutely, especially given the difference is quite large, but it isnt imbalanced.

As many people have pointed out, Terran in SC1 was arguably the hardest to play, but has been by far the most successful race while Protoss was the easiest to play yet have been by far the least succesful race. Now, I'm not gonna say SC1 Terran is on the same level as SC2 Zerg, as the difference between Terran and Zerg/Protoss in SC1 is nothing like the difference between SC2 Zerg and Protoss/Terran, but with the current state of the game I can see them following similar paths.

Look at a player like Nestea, who rarely does anything crazy yet has never lost a Bo3 to a protoss or July whose only recent losses were to MC and MVP. Not to mention less players play Zerg, so their representation at a high level is always going to be less than Protoss or Terran which gives them less chance of winning a tournament.

It sucks that Zerg players have to play more and better than other races to reach a competitive level, but once they do they're just as competitive and the race is fine at this stage.

On a related note, in ZvP especially, I think a lot of zergs get discouraged/feel they have undeserved losses (which, I should add, is understandable) because of abilities like forcefield (which I feel is badly designed, but not imbalanced) and graviton beam remove a units ability to micro and generate this helpless feeling. And while 90% of the time theres plenty of things for them to do otherwise, its a huge mental blow as no one wants to feel helpless which leads to anger/whining rather than development of their own play, whether it actually is imbalanced or not.

[Rhodan]

Originally Posted by jason

2 storms, bye marines.

colossi , bye marines.

feedback, bye ghosts.

This doesnt really contribute anything to the discussion. I can just as easily point out that Storm and Collossi are Tier 3 and require significant more investment than T1 units that cost basically nothing, and so should dominate Marines. Or that when you include the Radius of the EMP, it has a longer range than High Templar. But it doesn't contribute at all to the thread.

On topic, the metagame also plays a huge role at the moment. Collossi/Void Ray off 3 bases for example has only really been an in vogue build for about a month and only really came about because Protoss players needed to experiment after Zerg players learnt how to counter the old Stalker/Collosus/Sentry deathballs.

It may not sound like much, but the difference between the two styles has a lot of nuances to it, people tend to underrate protoss because of this perception that protoss players are afk until their death ball "completes".

[nGenLight]

Any legitimate discussion on balance within this thread has already died from the 2nd post of page 4. Hardly witty or funny.

[nirvAnA]

Thread closed at the request of thread starter, and well how it ended up as most OP threads end up.