[Seffy]

Originally Posted by Hwangje

Why do you think you'll be able to Manage a player when you can't even manage a BSG team where most of your players IIRC dont play ladder, play LoL or dont play at all? IIRC you even kicked someone who is active because he wasn't getting a promotion?

Shots fired, guys.

[x5_Namakaye]

Originally Posted by mGGxJieun

Shots fired, guys.

pew pew pew om nom nom ;; :3

[ToRSpookToR]

I am pretty sure most BSG players dont ladder that much anyway...

[OSPixel]

Well that escalated quickly

[OSL0rd]

Originally Posted by Hwangje

Why do you think you'll be able to Manage a player when you can't even manage a BSG team where most of your players IIRC dont play ladder, play LoL or dont play at all? IIRC you even kicked someone who is active because he wasn't getting a promotion?

First point regarding the players not playing ladder.
That is why internal restructuring is going on. I'll tell you first that in a few weeks to months time some players will be removed. In order to retain the roster, this requirement thread is put up. You my ask "why are they in OS in the first place if they cant even do the basic things?" When they joined, I was confident of their ability and passion, but as time goes on, things start to change, whether it is their personal problem or not that they start to lose their passion is Starcraft, I will try to resolve it but sometimes things dont work out and their removal is nothing short of guaranteed and a hard decision that I have to make despite them being close friends as I have to keep the Team's best interest in mind.

Second point regarding removal of "someone" who is active but wasn't getting a promotion
There are more than several factors to this, not progressing fast enough is one thing and is an important one. Before anyone joins OS, I will make it clear that this is not just a Clan, its a Team. We emphasize progress and professionalism. Fun will come, but when it comes to work, it is paramount that everyone knows their priorities. For that "someones" case, like i mentioned earlier, there are other factors leading to his removal. I will not digress the contents as it is private unless he himself wishes to permit to do so.

Quick Comments

	water666:	id also love to retain a rooster! xD <3
	Matt93:	dw water one day you'll be able to hold your cock.. a doodle doo

[ToRSpartaz]

Originally Posted by OSL0rd

There are more than several factors to this, not progressing fast enough is one thing and is an important one.

How do you quantify these factors? Like I can thoroughly understand goals and milestones, but is it unique to the individual or is the measures of success/progress uniform across all players? o.o it's still a little unclear to me through your posts.

[Hwangje]

Your "Sponsor" clearly says that "we will be officially sponsoring and supporting Clan Oandlig Spektrum (OS), a Singapore Based Starcraft II Clan. " Now if I read clearly it states OS is a Singapore Based Clan. One of the requirements for the "Team" is for them to live in Singapore with plans not to move within the first year of joining OS yet on your player list you have naviC who lives in London and Pixel who lives in Western Australia. It sounds like you gave up on requirements in order to obtain someone better than what was available yet you emphasis on your teams "Professionalism" when you can't even maintain the rules that you set as a requirement.

Quick Comments

	Matt93:	shots were fired earlier but hwangje just reloaded. MOAR SHOTS FIRED
	Seffy:	Fired more shots at OS than Sony did to Microsoft.

[ToRSpookToR]

why the **** would anyone in BSGPD want to join this stupid clan there is a lot of pressure to improve, perform and practise in a team. More than BSGPD need anyway. If you are kicking people for not playing that's messed up if I was one being kicked I'd be bloody glad, that environment is toxic especially for BSGPD. Look at the pro teams in Australia who gets kicked from these teams? No one, Bard from x5 went afk for a good while, Edge and fourby stopped playing for a while and i am sure there are many other cases of this. If you want to develop players, developing confidence and team comradery is very important, look at fray one of the best teams in SEA and they are all so close like a team should be. This probably makes no sense and isnt strung together very well at all so hopefully i got my point across, basically get out while you can BSGPD.

Quick Comments

	ToRSpartaz:	Well said man.
	asdfSchnitzel:	Tank shells fired
	FlashDrakE:	can't agree more
	Seffy:	Telling it like it is.
	mGGReaver:	+1
	syfChase:	Spook #1

[OSPixel]

NaviC moved to London for University, he was in SG for a long time, me on the other hand have been friends with these guys for a few years Helping them, when i was available to join a team i asked them if i could join. considering i have known these guys for a long time and help them a ton ingame, i dont see why i wouldnt be allowed to join.

[OSPixel]

Originally Posted by mcaspook

why the **** would anyone in BSGPD want to join this stupid clan there is a lot of pressure to improve, perform and practise in a team. More than BSGPD need anyway. If you are kicking people for not playing that's messed up if I was one being kicked I'd be bloody glad, that environment is toxic especially for BSGPD. Look at the pro teams in Australia who gets kicked from these teams? No one, Bard from x5 went afk for a good while, Edge and fourby stopped playing for a while and i am sure there are many other cases of this. If you want to develop players, developing confidence and team comradery is very important, look at fray one of the best teams in SEA and they are all so close like a team should be. This probably makes no sense and isnt strung together very well at all so hopefully i got my point across, basically get out while you can BSGPD.

Another point here is spook im fairly sure the team are after diamond and above, a major factor in that is generally people in bronze - plat usually end up not playing. which is the problem the team has at the moment, with more then half of its members playing other games / not playing sc2 at all. which makes it hard for us to operate, being unable to participate in anything, the thread was started to try and get people who are actually interested to keep playing sc2 and try to make it into a much higher level of play.

[ToRSpookToR]

If they played the bloody game they wouldn't be bsgp...

[Matt93]

I don't think you can really improve when at any second you could be removed if your leader doesn't find your improvement good enough. It's not a good environment thinking that every loss could be the one that gets you kicked out of your team/clan, laddering is hard enough for some people without that added pressure. Improvement should be encouraged regardless of the size, especially when in lower leagues where all it takes is a few things to click and someone in silver/gold can jump to high plat/diamond.

Also double standards are a bad way to run a clan/team. Rules should apply to everyone and not be ignored when it is convenient.

Quick Comments

	OSPixel:	The one incident was not removed purely for not promoting, there were alot of other factors in that removal.
	Hwangje:	Who is it you think we're talking about Pixel

[OSPixel]

Originally Posted by mcaspook

If they played the bloody game they wouldn't be bsgp...

When you play 10 games a season, there is no chance getting anywhere, i dont know about you when i was in BSGP i played over 100 games a season for a long time, in total took me about 12 months to make SEA GM. the only thing the team is after, is having people who are willing to put in time to get better, not joining then not playing for months on end, People dont get removed if they are laddering and trying to improve..

Quick Comments

eCKo`Tazerenix:

I play 1 game a season and beat gms /brag

[OSL0rd]

Originally Posted by ToRSpartaz

How do you quantify these factors? Like I can thoroughly understand goals and milestones, but is it unique to the individual or is the measures of success/progress uniform across all players? o.o it's still a little unclear to me through your posts.

Milestones for league promotions and level of play are the raw results that we are looking for. When we talk about level of play what we mean is, for example, you cant be a diamond protoss without even knowing how to 4 gate even decently.

The progress for each players is tailored to their lifestyle, needs, goals and our expectations. We dont expect you to reach GM in 2 months when you are lets say having major exams in a few weeks time.

Individual progress and team progress are 2 different but intertwined things. The thing that marks whether a player is on track or not is whether the leeway between the individual's progress and the team's progress is beyond that of which it is acceptable, then we will look into the player on what is wrong and correct it. If the player cannot be corrected, then we may prompt him for either a break to re-evaluate his commitment or straight up removal. Of course to make it clear we are talking in terms of passion for the game,you will not be removed if you're playing bad.

Quick Comments

ToRSpartaz:

O.o

[OSPixel]

Originally Posted by Matt93

Hwangje: *
Who is it you think we're talking about Pixel

Renzo (Fractal)

[Rowboat]

I don't know the internal workings of OS, but it seems for what you are asking, there's not much else, apart from what other clans offer, without the additional pressure. If you are pushing for promotions, what rewards do you offer?
Secondly, I realise that OS aspires to be a prof. gaming team, but kicking people out for not being active? Why not encourage them to play more, instead of kicking them?

I guess alot of the criticism comes down to trying to create a professional gaming culture on the back of bsgp players, without much to show in terms of incentives..Personally, I wouldn't bother putting in that much time and effort into a computer game if in the end I have nothing to show for it.

[Matt93]

Originally Posted by Matt93

*OSPixel: *
The one incident was not removed purely for not promoting, there were alot of other factors in that removal

I don't really know who got removed, and I don't care. The fact it happened creates a precedent where that is a possibility and creates a "toxic"(ty spook) environment.

Originally Posted by OSL0rd

Milestones for league promotions and level of play are the raw results that we are looking for. When we talk about level of play what we mean is, for example, you cant be a diamond protoss without even knowing how to 4 gate even decently.

The progress for each players is tailored to their lifestyle, needs, goals and our expectations. We dont expect you to reach GM in 2 months when you are lets say having major exams in a few weeks time.

Individual progress and team progress are 2 different but intertwined things. The thing that marks whether a player is on track or not is whether the leeway between the individual's progress and the team's progress is beyond that of which it is acceptable, then we will look into the player on what is wrong and correct it. If the player cannot be corrected, then we may prompt him for either a break to re-evaluate his commitment or straight up removal.
___________________________________

Firstly, they're in Diamond. Whether they know how to 4 gate or not doesn't take away from that, not to mention 4 gates aren't that great anymore. People know how to hold them and how to scout them, outdated strategies should not be a gauge for skill in the present the ladder is there for a reason.

Do you expect people to hit GM in 2 months if they don't have exams? One of your own players just said it took him a year, in an environment where he was able to play hundreds of games in a season, an environment I bet where he wasn't threatened with removal if he didn't reach your expectations.

idk, my view is that you shouldn't call yourself a team unless you're capable of winning something. You're a clan until you get to that level. A clan looks after each other and fosters growth, not set random goals and tie down their player. Sure you want people to be professional, but to me that sounds like a father who pressures his son to play sport because he didn't get to the level he wanted to when he was younger. Help your players grow, but don't pressure them.

Maybe you should look into another model whereby you have a "team" full of people you think can perform to your standards as well as people who aren't subject to those demands and are able to improve at their own rate without being pressured with seemingly little reward outside of a forced improvement. Then when they get to your expected level you can push them up into that higher team roster.

I don't think I'd have been able to improve like I did if I was pressured, I found the will to practice by myself and just received encouragement from my clan as I went along, I don't think they expected anything from me, if they did they didn't show it and in return I was able to improve faster than I thought I could (SEA GM in 2ish months)

Either way, I wish you luck but your model has failed before and I just don't see that changing (not naming anyone, but your pressuring HAS forced someone into laddering using unfair methods.. but we won't name that person.)

Quick Comments

	lIlIlIlIlIlIIl:	This. Well said.
	Seffy:	Rockets fired guys, I reapeat, rockets fired.

[mGGDaedalus]

You guys sound like a really fun bunch

[syfChadMann]

One love nerds

good luck to OS. Nice to see the restrictions in joining, means you know you will be amongst good company if you join. Looks like a good basis for a community and best if luck growing the Singaporean scene!

[Cyanide]

why so much hate, lol...

if people don't like the restrictions placed on the members of the team, just don't join.

whilst some of you are asking genuine questions and giving some constructive criticism. it seems like the majority just want to circlejerk all over this thread. give it a rest guys.