[Dox]

Originally Posted by |Erasmus|

While I kinda agree with some of the points you raised in your blog re: this. Basically, that the community is starting to get a grip on the power it has and people are certainly jumping on certain bandwagons with regards to TL/Reddit posts convincing idiots to email sponsors out thinking.

But that is the role of the community. If the community doesn't want people like IdrA (or rather, people to act like IdrA has done) then it's their responsibility to communicate that. Admittedly, the community seems to kind of miss the step where it's far better for esports in general if they sent those angry emails to the team first... giving EG a chance to react before the entire organisation's name is tainted to the sponsors can only be a good thing, even if it ends up in the same place.

Strongly disagree. When did The Community become World Police? The power to anonymously damage the relationship and reputation of an individual/organisation should not be wielded so carelessly. People who do this think they're doing some good in the industry when all they're doing is bringing it down.

If a football player fucks up, people take it to the team coach/manager. They don't contact freaking McDonalds and Coca Cola and threaten to never buy a Coke or a Cheeseburger ever again because Dickhead McBallstein cheated on his wife and punched a baby. It's a messy and volatile approach. I've been on the receiving end of it and it's nothing more than a cheap attack which circumvents the people who can actually do something about it.

Emailing sponsors needs to stop. It's doing nothing more than scaring money away from the industry.

[|Erasmus|]

Yeah, I said they're emailing the wrong people and should be going to the team... I just got the impression from your blog you're saying the community should just not be involved cause they're not running a team/don't know what that's like.

furious (maybe poorly presented) agreement

[Dox]

Yeah. The entire hierarchy is out of sequence.

[UHF]

You know what bothers me most? After searching on multiple occasions, I can't even find an email to contact EG.

Sure, there might be one floating around somewhere, but if I can't find it easily, then how many other people couldn't find it and instead turn to the sponsors who generally have multiple contact emails.

Personally I think EG should have been much more transparent with the way they had handled all previous incidents. I think if the community was able to plainly see the actions EG had taken with Greg, they would feel that something of substance was being done to remedy the situation (and feel less of a need to take it one step further than the team).

[Pandan]

Originally Posted by |Erasmus|

But that is the role of the community. If the community doesn't want people like IdrA (or rather, people to act like IdrA has done) then it's their responsibility to communicate that.

This statement here (imo) is just flat out wrong and ridiculous - especially in this circumstance.

All of these problems about email sponsors to screw someone over isn't "The Community" - it's almost always someone with their knickers in a knot. The easiest example is /r/starcraft, it's infamous for a vocal minority starting a cause and claiming that they are the voice of the whole. Dox's example that affected him was also a vocal minority - a personal grudge. (regardless of that circumstance)

To say that it's the role of the community is just plain wrong. I couldn't disagree more - ESPECIALLY in this circumstance. We shouldn't be exiling someone just because we don't like them. That's absolutely, stupendously retarded. I will never support it. I dislike a lot of people - but I'm not going out of my way to remove them completely just because they're rude on forums - that's just stupidity at maximum.

[|Erasmus|]

I didn't say I like it... The community or parts thereof will always decide they don't like the way some people behave. And they're entitled to do so.

Starcraft is just so centralised around TL/Reddit it's really easy to create a hype train surrounding something relatively minor and getting this result. That is the stupid bit.

[Reere]

Originally Posted by Dox

Emailing sponsors needs to stop. It's doing nothing more than scaring money away from the industry.

This. Just this.

[Pandan]

So what you're saying is - if one day Dox and I have an arguement - I'm entitled to email all of his sponsors and lie/exhaggerate/pretend to be offended about something - or hell even fully fabricate something to ensure both he and all of his players have no sponsors, no money and get exiled from the competitive scene.

These are the things that are occurring - and it is just plain wrong. Nobody is entitled to do that. Should I call Dox's boss at his work - and start talking about stuff he's done in his personal life to get him fired? Where does this trail end?

It's political assassination at it's finest - and it's so easy to do to any single person in any circumstance.

Quick Comments

FaDeBadger:

Chill out moron

[|Erasmus|]

When the **** did I try and imply anything like that?

The community/fans/supporters whatever you call them are the market here. Keeping them happy is the goal. I'm saying that it's their job to inform the team (preferably not the sponsors) of how they feel they are presenting themselves.

It's incredibly stupid when it turns into vendettas sparked by hype threads trying to whip up people who previously didn't care, I 100% agree with that. I was just initially disagreeing with what sounded like a "sit back and shut up" to anyone not a team manager, which is also silly. You should be wanting to hear from your audience...

[Pandan]

Originally Posted by |Erasmus|

When the **** did I try and imply anything like that?

I said the role of the community was not to exile someone for those reasons, you said they were entitled to do it; I disagree.

I do obviously note that you disagree with the outcome, but my interpretations of what you're writing seems to be "it's totally okay to message sponsors - we shouldn't have to message the team or players with issues about the team or players, we should be allowed to escalate as high as possible whenever we feel like it - because it's too hard to contact team management" - which just seems illogical to me.

If I have a problem with someone, I don't go running to someone else to dob on them - which is exactly what's happening in this case. It's not about people being entitled to go and dob or not - it's the fact they should bring it up with the right persons. The running to sponsors stuff is just terrible

Originally Posted by |Erasmus|

I was just initially disagreeing with what sounded like a "sit back and shut up" to anyone not a team manager, which is also silly. You should be wanting to hear from your audience...

Genuinely confused as to how you got that assumption from my posts above - I didn't even mention management? I just said it was stupid to escalate. You don't try and fix a problem by going to something attached to it. Go to the problem or whomever is responsible for said problem (Management, other players, teammates whatever)

EDIT: I gather you must be replying to Dox in that part of your post, but replying to mine in the part above - a bit confusing.

[|Erasmus|]

I was saying, that was my initial response to dox... to which we both agreed that it's just "contact the team not the sponsors".

I don't think the community is entitled to contact sponsors... just that they're entitled to have a say, back to my original point assumption that dox meant people should just not say anything ever if they don't have the team management experience.

I think everyone is just agreeing that emailing sponsors = bad, but emailing teams = good. The community -should- have a say, they should just do it in a less destructive way, and it's kinda sad that it's so easy to ruin someone by creating hype threads about their behaviour on TL/reddit.


FWIW: I personally disliked IdrA and his attitude/behaviour. I honestly didn't respect EG in how they publicly supported him so much... I'd have had a lot more respect before hand if they were more open about how they tried to deal with it. All I saw was a few comments about how they "spoke to him" or something a few times and him not changing much. It's kinda sad how someone whips up some hate on social media and he gets kicked though...

Quick Comments

	Pandan:	Agreed mate
	TACeeSerps:	very well said mate!

[Dox]

Originally Posted by |Erasmus|

I honestly didn't respect EG in how they publicly supported him so much...

I can assure you, more than 50% of EG's brand success over the last few years came from IdrA, possibly only to be eclipsed by Jaedong. It's a two way street - they were supporting him because he was a great representative for the company. The good far outweighed the bad, however in this case they had no choice.

EDIT: Fun fact, another very high percentage of that brand is thanks to iNcontroL. :P

Quick Comments

	|Erasmus|:	oh for sure... not a bad marketing decision. I just personally was never an idra fan due to his attitude.
	Pandan:	Couldn't agree more - but I'm querying how little say EG management had in it.
	b3nje909:	Did/Do support EG cause of Idra... geoff is jusat a bonus

[ikki]

While I do like that sc2 people who have personality, Idra, day9, targa better than the Korean robot emotionless players, you do need to exercise some restraint.

I thought this might happen him leaving especially after not getting through the WCS american qualifiers.

Maybe this is the kick up the arse Idra needed to re-assess, get his shit together, or even just a break from sc2 might be a good thing for him.

[UniKage]

You Tube

You Tube

[VoxMSI.Rogue]

I think its shit.

idrA > EG

I hope he finds a team who actually cares about him soon.

Quick Comments

	mGGSouth:	what?
	Stallion:	really??? wow
	ETL.Branno:	IdrA = sc2

[Stallion]

Originally Posted by ArcMSi.Rogue

I think its shit.

idrA > EG

I hope he finds a team who actually cares about him soon.

Actually after watching the real talk im really impressed with idra, sure he has his flaws but who doesn't. I dont agree with the way you think EG didn't care about him basing information off the interview. He has no malice towards them.

[RVLiveR]

Originally Posted by b3nje909

has been changed from Fired to Temp Banned

nope you're all a bunch of fucks
it just so happens i get paid to treat you like it. it's ******* awesome.

User was temp banned for this post.

iirc he was temp banned from the start, people just photoshopped fired to poke fun haha

OT: I feel really bad for IdrA because imo there aren't many teams that are "desperate" enough to invest in a risky player who has proven not to change his attitude time and time again at EG. That being said, I think that this is a big loss for both EG and IdrA (possibly even more so for EG) but it's something EG must do.

EG's personality was always great fun to watch on youtube, but idra was a big part of each of the components (incontrol without idra, machine without idra T_T) and even then IdrA was one of the most major zerg EG streamers along with Jaedong (because nobody really watches machine) but I think competitively EG doesn't lose much and I guess with their recent korean acquisitions it certainly seems that EG is taking it more seriously.

[VoxMSI.Rogue]

mGGSouth:
what?

xGKingStallion:
really??? wow

ETL.Branno:
IdrA = sc2

I dunno why I have to explain my opinion but here goes.

idrA is one of the main reasons I got into Starcraft II. He was always honest and open about his issues with anger and has always been someone who tells shit like it is, regardless of what others think. I value that from people above almost anything.

You may think hes a douche because of what he said, but in all honesty, I see it as him needing help that clearly wasn't provided to him in the way that EG had said they had committed. He was one of their stars and needed support from both his team and friends during a time where he is clearly dealing with some shit.

EG cut him purely because of sponsors and the impact his words would have on their business.

None of us are perfect, Stallion I have called you out several times recently on talking shit on other people yourself, people make mistakes and as you know well say things they don't necessarily mean in times of anger or depression. In my opinion, his punishment does not fit the crime - Stephano was put on unpaid suspension for one month for joking about having sex with a 14 year old child which to me is a hell of a lot worse than what idrA did.

EG has actively encouraged idrA to talk shit and be who he is because it has made them a shittonne of money in the past, then when they think his behaviour is somehow going to impede on their business they boot him, I'm sorry but this to me is terrible and it makes me think twice about supporting EG.

I would take a million idrAs who speak their minds over the somewhat thousands of brown-nosing sheep who continually fellate others and keep their mouths shut any day.

To be perfectly honest, I think EG was just waiting for an excuse to boot him, he isn't performing at a level high enough to justify his salary and they can replace him easily with those who will do better.

But hey, that's just my opinion I seem not allowed to be entitled to.

Quick Comments

	NvRossi:	you dont have to explain your opinion
	Pandan:	I think a lot of people agree with your opinion on this, Rogue
	FaDeBadger:	Yeah, no need to explain. Lots of us agree with you anyway
	mGGSouth:	Sorry, just couldn't understand, but now I do :)

[ToR.Arnor]

Originally Posted by UHF

You know what bothers me most? After searching on multiple occasions, I can't even find an email to contact EG.

Sure, there might be one floating around somewhere, but if I can't find it easily, then how many other people couldn't find it and instead turn to the sponsors who generally have multiple contact emails.

Personally I think EG should have been much more transparent with the way they had handled all previous incidents. I think if the community was able to plainly see the actions EG had taken with Greg, they would feel that something of substance was being done to remedy the situation (and feel less of a need to take it one step further than the team).

I think UHF hits the nail right on the head, a little bit of PR goes a long way.

I think team managers need to be far more accessible (or atleast have a generic email for complaints@randomteam.org)

Team Liquid did a really good job controlling the Nony situation last year, so its not like PR is a foreign concept to the industry.

One thing I dont agree with (although it might not be your opinion but its certainly been brought up by others) is that most the blame is being put on the specators/fans/community, the issue is while most teams claim to know what they are doing (or atelast present themselves as such) the do not have management with an adequate level of training or education in the fundamentals of business and marketing, they do not know how to handle their customers so when they (or a party they are associated with) stuffs up, so its easier to blame the community for being upset by it then to actually solve the real issue.


to sum up my thoughts

1) Idra's did not behave in the manner a professional should, as an adult he should of realised this, you can speak your mind without resorting to insults (look at incontrol, he can speak out/ answer his critics without resorting to immature behavior)

2) EG failed to manage Idra properly, it is their job to manage their players and take appropriate actions to ressolve known issues

3) EG failed to make themselves available to the community to give them feedback (or atleast failed to let people know how to do it)

4) EG failed basic Proactive Public Relations 101, if a player screws up management needs to be the one that goes to the media and say "hey this is happened, we're not happy about it, we're sorry, this is what we're doing to try and fix the situation"

5) Teams and players (not speaking directly about EG here more of a generalised statement) need to actually find people who are adequately trained and educated in business and marketing, they need to stop saying things like "this is how it should be done" No, while you may have an idea because you're associated with the industry, you arent trained, and you arent an expert

Its like a guy who tinkers in a shed working on a hobby car, yes you kinda have an idea whats going on and you can probably help me with small repairs, but when it come to rego checking or major repairs, im going to take it to a licensed mechanic, when it comes to your business leave it to the professionals

[LordByrnsy]

idra has anger issues... everyone knows this... I dont really see why it became such a big problem.. all of idra's actual fans know hes like that and dgaf... personally im looking forward to what he wants to do now and it seems like the best move forward for him from his interview

edit: of course it involved sponsors and people being whiney little bitches but in the scheme of things it doesnt really matter