[syfChadMann]

Originally Posted by nirvAnA

update: ty guys, my bad for some reason i thought he was from HK

Originally Posted by fray`fenner

He's American

Your both right, he is from HK but he lives in the states.

Hopefully a good resolution can be found for all this. ;_;

EDIT: I think FaZe was merely offering that MYi will assist in the investigation and they want to offer any support from the team. Such as gathering additional reps, etc. I don't think he was saying he wants to be involved in making a decision, just being co-operative.

Rep comments - go **** yourselves.

Quick Comments

	ROOTPetraeus:	you're*
	nirvAnA:	You're*
	mGGAequitas:	youses is*
	Pandan:	youse *****, i swear aye

[NOM]

Sensei doesn't really play anymore...
I am not surprised that this is happening again, but i was quite anoyed that shinYa wasn't banned on his first attempt

[syfChadMann]

Originally Posted by NOM

Sensei doesn't really play anymore...
I am not surprised that this is happening again, but i was quite anoyed that shinYa wasn't banned on his first attempt

The 'First attempt' wasn't smurfing. It was pre-global play and shinyA wanted to enter a open to all online tournament. The account sharing from the previous 'smurfing' was stated and a way for shinyA to play in an event he was entitled to play in. This ACL qualifier is completely different, however.

[Ryan]

Good observation

Quick Comments

[TA]LoSt:

cheers

[RuineD]

i don't think shinya should be more highly accountable than sensei here, i mean he's not part of this community at all whilst sensei has been a long-lasting member. as such he should have a lot more accountability/responsibility and rather than shinya being the focus of this investigation shouldnt it be sensei?

edit: to clarify, what does shinya have to gain by playing in an ACL qualifier? The points go to SenSei, isn't it far more likely that SenSei asked shinya to play for him? Again, shinya has nothing to gain

Quick Comments

Snx.FigJig:

sensei 10000year ban from sc2sea tournaments

[ToRSpookToR]

what can you do against shinya? nothing. Sensei however...

[SLCNPezz]

Oh this is why I was asked for replays.

[Baldie]

ACLPro have looked over the evidence. It is conclusive SenSei played Online Round 1 and ShinyA played Online Round 2. Considering SenSei's past history and being his first ACLPro offense the following punishment has been decided.

SenSei will be stripped of both Online Round 1 and Online Round 2 points for Season 1. He will also be banned from participation at Plantronics GAMECOM ACL Brisbane. SenSei will move into Season 2 where he will be able to participate again with 0 points.

ACLPro will monitor SenSei's play for the remainder of 2013 to ensure this doesn't happen again. A specific screening process will be managed during online rounds to ensure SenSei is playing himself. This process will not be disclosed to minimise any chance of manipulation.

There is no direct punishment we can provide ShinyA at this point in time. However this will be noted for future reference.

We appreciate the community for bringing this to our attention.

[iM tgun]

Any tournament that allows Sensei to play after this is, very simply, stupid.

[syfChadMann]

Originally Posted by iM tgun

Any tournament that allows Sensei to play after this is, very simply, stupid.

if the wider SEA community wants to punish this there is a precedent set. I don't believe the crime is quite that of CHobo. However a precedent has been set.

[iM tgun]

Originally Posted by fray`ChadMann

if the wider SEA community wants to punish this there is a precedent set. I don't believe the crime is quite that of CHobo. However a precedent has been set.

You're right, it's not quite the same as Chobos.

It's worse.

Quick Comments

Snx.FigJig:

^

[ROOT`iaguz]

Agree with tgun, banning him from one event is silly. He should get a lifetime ban from all ACL, shit all SC2 tournaments.

Chobo was caught out cheating once. Sensei has a history of cheating multiple times. He's had plenty of chances.

[Baldie]

Ultimately it is VaNzR's decision in regards to SenSei and ACLPro. I will not speak on behalf of him other than to state facts. If you would like to have a conversation with him about the whole situation you are more than welcome to and I don't doubt he would value constructive feedback and/or raised concerns.

[syfChadMann]

Originally Posted by iM tgun

You're right, it's not quite the same as Chobos.

It's worse.

Personally, I don't agree. CHobo was winning Cash prizes and taking coaching. He also used smurfs more than just a few times.

But thats just my view point on the situation, if you are able to shed more light into the situation and how it is worse than CHobo, please do.

[iM tgun]

Originally Posted by fray`ChadMann

Personally, I don't agree. CHobo was winning Cash prizes and taking coaching. He also used smurfs more than just a few times.

But thats just my view point on the situation, if you are able to shed more light into the situation and how it is worse than CHobo, please do.

Sure. Sensei is someone who has cheated before -- in brood war. He was also caught up at the GGA qualifier where Shinya tried to pass himself off as Sensei -- he knew what he was doing, he even tried to give Dox Senseis name and info for the prize.

Now, he's asked someone to smurf for him in an online tournament giving him ranking points to a LAN final -- this is just as bad as Chobo, only it's worse because he has been given a second chance before. He's continued to break the trust of the community -- and the players.

You can keep trying to defend him, or downplay it -- but this guy needs to be removed from the scene, permanently. If he's even allowed to register in tournaments their credibility is immediately in question.

Also, instead of defending the issue for him, can you ask him to come and answer this himself?

Quick Comments

ROOTPetraeus:

tgun so wise

[syfChadMann]

Originally Posted by iM tgun

You can keep trying to defend him, or downplay it -- but this guy needs to be removed from the scene, permanently. If he's even allowed to register in tournaments their credibility is immediately in question.

Also, instead of defending the issue for him, can you ask him to come and answer this himself?

I'm not at all defending him. I guess my understanding of the GGA cup was that ShinyA was using his account to gain access, I was under the impression SenSei had told him to tell admins and wasn't intentionally smurfing. Perhaps I bought into the story a bit, but that was my understanding.

Secondly, the length, lying and scale to which CHobo was smurfing is much greater (at least it seems as such atm). CHobo was confronted and lied about the issue for weeks. CHobo smurfed in numerous online tournaments, winning cash prizes and earning income from coaching students who believed the lies about his skill. It seems much more malicious and drawn out than 1-2 smurfing in tournament situations. But thats just how I feel about the situation.

As for the Broodwar stuff, that was a long time ago and the suggestion was that SenSei learnt his lesson.. Perhaps not, it seems.

In regards to getting him out to answer for himself, I don't represent SenSei, nor do I tell him what to do. Thats on him, not me. I'm not defending his actions, However the suggestion of life bans is over the top when CHobo, who continues to win trade and perhaps cheat on ladder has served his penalty for smurfing and is able to enter online tournaments now. SenSei's crime, I feel, is not as sever and the suggestion is life ban? - I personally don't agree and am simply offering up my thoughts. It's not at all my call on the situation, nor should my suggestions carry weight, I simply believe a life ban would be unjust - given previous penalties.

[iM tgun]

Originally Posted by fray`ChadMann

I'm not at all defending him. I guess my understanding of the GGA cup was that ShinyA was using his account to gain access, I was under the impression SenSei had told him to tell admins and wasn't intentionally smurfing. Perhaps I bought into the story a bit, but that was my understanding.

Secondly, the length, lying and scale to which CHobo was smurfing is much greater (at least it seems as such atm). CHobo was confronted and lied about the issue for weeks. CHobo smurfed in numerous online tournaments, winning cash prizes and earning income from coaching students who believed the lies about his skill. It seems much more malicious and drawn out than 1-2 smurfing in tournament situations. But thats just how I feel about the situation.

As for the Broodwar stuff, that was a long time ago and the suggestion was that SenSei learnt his lesson.. Perhaps not, it seems.

In regards to getting him out to answer for himself, I don't represent SenSei, nor do I tell him what to do. Thats on him, not me. I'm not defending his actions, However the suggestion of life bans is over the top when CHobo, who continues to win trade and perhaps cheat on ladder has served his penalty for smurfing and is able to enter online tournaments now. SenSei's crime, I feel, is not as sever and the suggestion is life ban? - I personally don't agree and am simply offering up my thoughts. It's not at all my call on the situation, nor should my suggestions carry weight, I simply believe a life ban would be unjust - given previous penalties.

It's very stupid to compare this to Chobo - why?

I was calling for a life ban for him when it went down.

It's not unjust. The SC2 community is, very simply put, a bunch of wimps. You get cheated out of money, cheated out of tournaments, especially from a guy who has been given a second chance, and think "oh well, just warn him again - maybe he'll learn this time"? What a joke.

Sensei very well would've went on with this -- however, myself and Iaguz caught it extremely early. Just because we caught him doing this early doesn't mean it's any less malicious than Chobo.

Edit: Anything that isn't permanent is a warning. He's had a warning before.

Quick Comments

	syfChadMann:	I'm not suggesting to simply give him a warning.
	ToRSpartaz:	Valid points tgun.

[ToRSpookToR]

YOU CAN'T TALK TO TA LIKE tHAT

Quick Comments

NvRossi:

one day you'll be funny

[Fenner]

I'm for a life ban, maybe it's a little too harsh but anything less is just silly. It's all just opinion since there are no rulesets but for myself, anyone doing this should be at least banned for a year.

I think some people misunderstand the impact something like this has. It is completely screwing over every player who enters the tournament and has committed a lot of their time to SC2. I, myself, play the game everyday. When this happens all that time I and everyone else in the tournament has committed to practicing the game is getting completely fucked over. That is a hell of a lot of hours people have put into the game to get better legitimately to just have them thrown out of the window by some cheating scum.

Then there are the organizers, sponsors and admins that are putting time and money into running the tournament. SenSei is essentially scamming those people out of their money by using illegitimate methods to increase his chances of getting a prize.

As for comparing to the Chobo incident, I would say that it is very similar. The fact that he hasn't won prize money from doing this and Chobo did is completely irrelevent. Their goals were the similar, SenSei just got caught earlier.

Quick Comments

	TAminimat:	if they are so similar, why not give out similar punishments?
	iM tgun:	Because Chobo's punishments were weak.

[VoxMSI.Rogue]

To be honest, anyone who cheats this community should be given harsher punishments, There is a reason people continue to cheat and lie, because they know that even if they get caught there is no real punishment coming their way. The last few "cheating" scandals have ended in no deterrent for others and at the end of the day the hard working players who practice their asses off are being cheated out of tournament spots and prize money. I see this as a complete slap in the face to everyone who supported him, his own clan, the community, admins, organisers and other players.

I am 100% behind Brad with this, I do not think this is fair on the other players who put in the long hours to do well in a country which has a limited tournaments and prize money (so they are already fighting an uphill battle.) It also calls to question other legitimate players who have had association with him, his clan etc.