[calcifer19]

will this seacl 3 will be interrupted by incoming HOTS in march?? 10 weeks length people will forgot WOL style and play like HOTS ?

[nGenLight]

People being promoted/improving because of the forced competition of SEACL is one of the greatest problems we can have. =]

Work hard at a solution guys!

[SLCN.Kez]

"If a player disconnects between 2.00 and 9.59 game time, the game can be replayed if the other player agrees."
Please change this rule, it's the most frustrating thing in the world when your opponent derps and says "Nah ill take the win thanks mate" when you might have clearly been ahead. Please make it admin ruling, or replayed. Whilst I understand this is more work for the admins, I believe it very necessary

Quick Comments

	Snx.Mufasa:	agreed
	x5.Revenant:	Better listen to this lad before he makes a depression in your head.

[Heady]

Originally Posted by ToRSpook

if you have diamonds in your team why would a plat be in your "top 5" from what i can see it mainly is a PD league with a few masters.

The thread shows it was 20% Masters players at the start (36/185 players).

[ThatGuyDoMo]

Just raising this question again because it doesn't seem to have been answered and I, along with several others have already asked, but how is SEACL going to deal with HotS?

Since HotS comes out more or less midway through the season I can see some problems arising,

Firstly if we don't switch to HotS is it not possible that people would become disinterested in WoL and therefore SEACL and just abandon it for HotS?

On the reversal of that, if we did switch straight to hots on release certain players may not be able to play because they might not be able to afford the game on release and are then stuck with WoL for another couple of weeks, which seems a bit unfair to me.

On that note, switching straight into HotS also gives an unfair advantage to those whom have been playing the beta (such as myself, although I'm quite terrible) since the first round of invites, I could see this leading to unpredictable upsets which may not be popular.

Hopefully those conclusions sound reasonable, I know I personally would prefer the switch into HotS but after a 2 week grace period or so to allow people to catch up with the game / actually have a chance to buy it.

Just my 2 cents, hope it made sense, but ultimately it is up to you admin ladz to run it all.


Understand if the reason you guys haven't responded is because you are still thinking of how you are going to deal with the release.

Thanks!

P.S. derp if you guys have responded to this and I just couldn't find the response T_T

[SLCN.NXZ]

Originally Posted by aLtNXZ

I'm just curious, don't want to turn this into a full blown format drama but can we not just have the "pro" tier be the one with the pro teams and allow for them to play for their respective clans in lower tiers? Like I think tier 1 will only have pro teams in it... right? If this isn't the case ignore this post. If it is, however, I feel like if the two tiers never have to play each other then wouldn't it create better clan rivalries if everyone in the clan could play?

Just bringing this up because it is very unlikely for there to be an aLt team if we can't have our players on pro teams.

Bringing this back up because as far as I know, apart from scheduling conflicts, there is no reason why this can't be the case (to my knowlege at least). Just wanted to make sure this doesn't get buried as like spartaz said in chat, it doesn't seem right that the reigning champions don't play at all. Thanks for your time!

Quick Comments

nirvAnA:

hello cutie

[ToR.Arnor]

Hey Guys

as I mentioned in the other post I havent had stable internet at home since the 23rd (not to mention Ive spent the last 3 days with my family, you know being xmas and all) Ill be adding replies to questions in this post, periodically throughout the day

Originally Posted by |Erasmus|

What days/time is this going to run on? It's unfair to commit to a team if I can't actually play....

Ill be consulting the admins of wT weekly to see whether they will continue to run the weeklies during SEACL or if they will be putting them on hold until after the league if wT continues it will likely be Tuesday and Thursday, if its put on hold then Monday and Tuesdays

Originally Posted by VB_WhiplashJC

Are we allowed to tack on a couple of golds in our PD team?

The restrictions are kinda annoying, why not have all tiers unrestricted but sorted in the same way as the top three? We have a couple of masters level players who can't play for VB

Happy it's back, thanks to the admins and sponsor/s!

I'll answer all the T4 and T5 questions here(or try to) Theres still discussion amongst admins regarding the lower tiers regarding the final ruling, but at this stage T5 will be for BSG players (at sign up) and if a player is promoted to Plat he/she can still play T4 will be for PD (and yes even G if you wish) players promoted to M can still play

Originally Posted by calcifer19

will this seacl 3 will be interrupted by incoming HOTS in march?? 10 weeks length people will forgot WOL style and play like HOTS ?

We will be sticking with WoL, particularly with lower tiers there no guarantee that everyone will have access to the latest expansion, also it will be extremely weird to change the tournament game mid-season

Originally Posted by Kez

"If a player disconnects between 2.00 and 9.59 game time, the game can be replayed if the other player agrees."
Please change this rule, it's the most frustrating thing in the world when your opponent derps and says "Nah ill take the win thanks mate" when you might have clearly been ahead. Please make it admin ruling, or replayed. Whilst I understand this is more work for the admins, I believe it very necessary

As you said it makes an admins job alot harder, I agree to rule is a pain, but I will add "admin has the right to overrule if the situation warrants it" I think thats fair?

Originally Posted by aLtNXZ

Bringing this back up because as far as I know, apart from scheduling conflicts, there is no reason why this can't be the case (to my knowlege at least). Just wanted to make sure this doesn't get buried as like spartaz said in chat, it doesn't seem right that the reigning champions don't play at all. Thanks for your time!

Mostly to create a sense of even competition, and allowing people that wouldnt ordinarily get a chance to play the opportunity to, Take TA for instance, if their "Pro Team" member play in T2 as well thats Mafia, Light, deth, Rossi, EdgE, Fourby (and probably a few others im not thinking of right now) that means a long list of players while extremely skilled would not get a chance to represent their clan, TA has already submitted 2 GM Teams without their "Pro team" members, this is what we were trying to achieve with this league.

Also depending on who signs up it would be possible for 1-2 "Clan" teams to be given T1 status

Reigning champs could be given t1 status (considering aLt could sign up a team with PiG and iaguz...)

Quick Comments

SLCN.NXZ:

Yeah I understand what you mean. We don't really want tier 1 with different lineups as tier 2!

[FSBenAD]

I know there is a lot mroe discussion etc going on, but as a clan captain my biggest worrries are:

a) Mid tournament promotions causing chaos by either
1 - leaving me with no players / forcing me to try and find new players
2 - leaving those promoted players with no where to go, because my higher tier side already has 12 players
3 - having lots of platinums playing in BSG, lots of Masters play in PD.

It is a real tricky problem to solve, however it seems like we can probably fix this if we are consistent between the tiers...

a) All clans either enter a side in each Tier, or nominate a sister clan to take their players for promotion
b) At the end registration date, all player leagues are checked and the players are moved between divisions based on this.
c) We do the same thing as the halfwaypoint and allow clans to add new players to refill their roster (Some kind of limit though)
d) These players are allowed to increase a team past 12 players (Be really awful for promotions to mean they cant play at all anymore)
e) There is a restriction on the number of Platinums who can play in a match in Tier 5 and the same restriction on Masters in Tier 4.

This doesnt sound too horrible to admin (and I'll be helping admining, so Im forcing me to do this work), doesnt punish players for being promoted (which WILL happen, I know almost every FS player was promoted last SEACL, and most players in Tier 5 were in general, some from gold to diamond!)

[Zealo]

benAD: what happens if the bottom 3 tiers have different numbers of teams enter them?

[FSBenAD]

I dont see the big problem in allowing a team to have multiple lower tier sister teams, to help take on promotions. Within reason of course.

As long as all of this is declared before we lock down the teams for the tiers etc it should be all fine. And a masters/gm from tier 4, could play from tier 1 to tier 3 (ok they probably wont play tier 1, due to not being good enough, but rules wise its not a problem...)

[breadfan]

Originally Posted by FSBenAD

I dont see the big problem in allowing a team to have multiple lower tier sister teams, to help take on promotions. Within reason of course.

As long as all of this is declared before we lock down the teams for the tiers etc it should be all fine. And a masters/gm from tier 4, could play from tier 1 to tier 3 (ok they probably wont play tier 1, due to not being good enough, but rules wise its not a problem...)

What are the advantages of having it all declared before? Why not just let players organise themselves? They can approach teams in a higher tier if their clan doesn't have one. For this, I like the idea of having set movement weeks (midway through the season) when everyone moves. Some people may have some friends they want to play with, while other people might have some people that they would prefer not to play with. On the other side of the coin, some teams may be left shorthanded and in desperate need of a numbers boost because their roster has had people leave mid season, while others may struggle getting everyone a game because the team is so full of players (ToR BSG ended up with 17 or 18 players last season).

[FSBenAD]

I definitely agree with the set move date, its much easier on admins and captains and its what ive suggest too.

The rules already state we are limiting sides to 12 players, so we wont have the problem of too many players in a team (I hope players dont miss out though, but with only 4 players playing a week, having a huge roster means minimal game time anyway)

As an admin and an opposite clan captain, I just like knowing where the partnerships are, where players should move to. I also like to have that setup before hand so I dont have to worry about finding my players spots.

In the majority of cases wouldnt people just go where their clan mates are anyway?

I guess its not too big of a deal for myself, my clan will have teams in each tier, either directly, or in a partnership at the M/GM level, so I defer here to people who would be in the situation where their clan has no team in a higher tier (that is Tier 1-3 for players hitting masters, and tier 4 for players hitting platinum, when we do the mandatory player promotion)

[breadfan]

Originally Posted by FSBenAD

I definitely agree with the set move date, its much easier on admins and captains and its what ive suggest too.

The rules already state we are limiting sides to 12 players, so we wont have the problem of too many players in a team (I hope players dont miss out though, but with only 4 players playing a week, having a huge roster means minimal game time anyway)

As an admin and an opposite clan captain, I just like knowing where the partnerships are, where players should move to. I also like to have that setup before hand so I don't have to worry about finding my players spots.

In the majority of cases wouldnt people just go where their clan mates are anyway?

I guess its not too big of a deal for myself, my clan will have teams in each tier, either directly, or in a partnership at the M/GM level, so I defer here to people who would be in the situation where their clan has no team in a higher tier (that is Tier 1-3 for players hitting masters, and tier 4 for players hitting platinum, when we do the mandatory player promotion)

Yeah well I understand this is for people who don't have a clan in the above tier to go into.

To your point, it seems like there needs to be considerations for overflow - If ToR PD has 12 players and 2 BSG players promote, there's no room for them. Can the cap be exceeded, and if so by how many spaces? Maybe inactive players need to be deactivated from the roster first to make space? Either way, I think that players should stay with their clans so long as their clan has a team for them in a tier.

I don't think not knowing at the start of the season who promoted players might go to really causes any great loss. I mean, you still don't know which of your players will promote (though you may have some idea who is close). All you do is have an admin take note of which teams have less than 12 active players, and those are the available teams for promoted lower leaguers with no clan team to move into. It might look something like

ToR Tier 4 has 10 players (2 spaces available)
FS Tier 4 has 11 players (1 space available)
TA Tier 4 has 9 players (3 spaces available)

Players would then be free to talk to the teams and decide where they need to go. Maybe ToR desperately wants a protoss, while FS needs terrans. Maybe TA doesn't care about races, they play the strategy angle and want a Terran sniper. This makes the whole movement period a bit more interesting. But most of all, as I said, I think it is simple and easy. If you're concerned about players not having a new home, then admins can just step in at the end of the movement period and assign people.

One concern with this is that you are putting people into an established team, and maybe the team leader wants to play his clanmates rather than this new addition. So maybe there needs to be some kind of rule like the transfer needs to play in at least X number of the remaining games (unless they declare themselves unavailable) to ensure that people are getting a fair go.

[FSBenAD]

Id hate to be told I have to play certain players and I hate to reduce to opportunites for my own players.... I'd much prefer we just always allowed promoted players to join their clan in the higher leagues. Thats my own viewport there anyway.

The reason I am so excited for the SEACL is to give my FS players a chance for competitive play on an ongoing basis and build team spirit.

Anyway my overall objective here, is not to have people miss out, I want all clans and players to be able to play.

[breadfan]

Originally Posted by FSBenAD

Id hate to be told I have to play certain players and I hate to reduce to opportunites for my own players.... I'd much prefer we just always allowed promoted players to join their clan in the higher leagues. Thats my own viewport there anyway.

The reason I am so excited for the SEACL is to give my FS players a chance for competitive play on an ongoing basis and build team spirit.

Anyway my overall objective here, is not to have people miss out, I want all clans and players to be able to play.

No you misunderstand me, that is just for players who have joined another team (or potentially, just the players that admins select a team for them). As I said, players should always join their clan team if there is one available to join. Clans not playing members as frequently as others is an internal issue. But someone who just wants to get in and play some games but can't because the team he gets put in plays their own clan's players instead of him is a bit lame. That is only to help outsiders not get shafted

[FSBenAD]

I understand what your saying, but this is a clan/team league, not about individuals. Why should the clan take the hit because someone doesnt want to join one? I dont want to have to take a player who has no interest in my clan, especially if that means I have to play them X times.

I am definitely all for as many people playing as possible though, and I've already been open to "borrowing" players for SEACL if it makes sense and add something to FS. And we are talking to clans about partnering up so both clans ahve full teams in all tiers. I dont feel anything should be enforced upon clans though.

Also just a thankyou for the back and forth, nice and civil, lots of good ideas

Quick Comments

breadfan:

part of the assignment process could be admin talks to team captains though - easy fix

[nirvAnA]

re: hots
hots is a big problem, when it comes out EVERYONE will drop WoL and move on to it. if you don't believe that, well you probably have not gone through a blizzard expansion phase . then they will be forced to play in the SEAL while disinterested in WoL.So I think we have to finish by march 12, a transition into hots will make no sense as it will be a totally different game. We can have a hots league later or perhaps even postpone it to hots? idk! Right now seal can have its WoL league and start on jan 12, have it over 2 months. 8 teams in a league. speed league style!

re: playoffs
I dislike playoffs for tier1 since the other tiers aren't having it. it will drag the season longer then it should be, it should be a separate cup or something and the league should crown the LEAGUE champion. last seasons league day finale was super climatic and it was done in a league style so any argument that a league format is not exciting goes out of the window.

re: promotions
i feel players promoted should not be forced out of their teams. Due diligence must be carried out by admins to ensure teams aren't submitting bullshit ranks for their players disguised as lower league players. divinity playing in Tier 4 last season as a gm against gpds and "surprisingly" having a 14-0 record is what comes to mind. also because the old format was based on "overall rank" of the team . anyway players should not be punished for improving and be allowed to stay in their team. a very strict check is needed at the start with possible punishments for the team for submitting fake ranks. i.e none of this "but im bronze on SEA" (but masters on NA) bs

Quick Comments

	ThatGuyDoMo:	I share your feelings on hots, hope something gets sorted out
	breadfan:	I think that SC2 has different expansion phases than Diablo/WoW, but yes still going to have people playing HotS only

[FSBenAD]

If we are serious about getting it done early, before HotS, then we need to lock down rules, format, time etc right now.. Like by the end of the weekend.

It takes time to get a team together in the lower leagues, as the start time is key.

[ToR.Arnor]

Thanks for your feedback Rules have been locked in based on them


12.Tier 5 will be restricted to BSG players at sign ups, Players promoted to platinum are allowed to continue playing, those promoted to Diamond will need to be granted special consideration by T5 Admins, you MUST informs Admins of All Promotions/Demotions and Race Changes.

13.Tier 4 will be restricted to PD players at sign ups, Players promoted to Masters will need to be granted special consideration by T4 Admins, you MUST informs Admins of All Promotions/Demotions and Race Changes. A T4 Team May apply for special consideration if they wish to sign up with a Masters Player

14.Teams will be allowed to add up to 3 players to their roster throughout the season (provided they do not exceed the team size restriction), a NEW player entering the team will in ineligble to participate in the league for the first 48 hours after being approved by Admin

15.The League will use "xGTL" format, 4x Best of 3 matches on predetermined maps, and an Ace Match (best of 3) if Teams are tied 2-2, Teams must use a different player or each of the 1st four sets, Teams may choose to reuse a player from the 1st four sets in the Ace Match

16.Points will be awarded as follows: Major Win (4-0, 3-1) 3 Points, Minor Win (3-2) 2 Points, Minor Loss (2-3) 1 Point, Major Loss (1-3, 0-4) 0 Points, No Result 0 Points

[VB_WhiplashJC]

A major loss should be more points than a walkover.