[Cordance]

I am looking for expressions of interest from people willing to judge a casting competition as I do not wish for it to just become a popularity contest. Judges for the competition will need to watch at least 2 casts each week more likely 6-10. Making a binary choices (one caster vs another caster) between several "skill" categories. Such as language range use, composure, game knowledge displayed, excitement, dead space filler, action capture (screen positioning) with a weighting due to live vs replay and solo vs co casted. The finalization of all categories will be made after a number of judges can be organized. I expect the competition will run somewhere from 10-20 weeks depending on numbers of caster interest. Starting sometime early in the new year.

For the interest of completeness I will lay out the rough format now to give people an idea of what the casting competition will involve. Keep in mind several if not all things will change before the actual competition is run. The concept came from the desire to improve and publicize the SEA region casting and subsequently games.

The Caster cup will be run as a single elimination competition where casters submit a "competition cast" they have previously done of a SEA game and/or SEA players.
A "competition cast" is a single game (live or replay) or maybe series depending on how judges time allows (to be finalized) and up to 5 min pre game and/or post game. Submission would be made via a link and if required a time so casters could used you tube or a streaming service recording rather than having to take time from casting to edit up a submission. The cast would then be judged on categories such as language, observation, production quality (to be finalized with judges).
Once the judges choices on each category are organized, to make things more interesting not all of the categories would be used to pick a winner each round. The casters would each blindly submit a number of categories (to be finalized) that they wished to be judged on, also a poll would be held with links to the casts for SC2SEA people to vote on a single category. Then at the end of the week only the categories the casters chose and the voted category would be used to score the match. Some round to round rules would involve never using the same cast twice and not being able to submit a cast with that rounds competitor as your co caster.

So anyone interested in watching some SEA casters and judging them? Judging results would be given to the casters only, so judges can be somewhat shielded from public S-storms.

[Baldie]

Sounds great but a lot of work and time will need to go into this and as a result my questions is:

Why are you doing this and what do you want to achieve by doing this?

[syfChadMann]

I'm keen to help out..

but my biggest concern is Logistics - Nerds are often lazy.. we spend too much time playing video games and not sleeping properly. Other than that - whole thing looks great! I guess your goal is to develop domestic casting talent and promote casters in the SEA scene so we can get some recognition for out devotion to eSports! woo eSports!!

[FS.Kezz]

I'm not sure if you're only looking for people with casting/competitive experience or just any community volunteer, but I would like to be involved in this. If you are able to organise and market the event successfully, it could become something that the community can look forward to and cherish. As the others have said above though, anything like this takes an often underestimated amount of time and effort to pull off.

[Benji]

This isn't what casting should be. Casters are entertainers, and as a result their reception varies amongst different people. When someone wins at Starcraft, there are clear cut rules as to why they won, with casters it is perfectly acceptable for one person to like one better, and another to prefer a different caster and both of their opinions are perfectly valid.

To make matters worse, you're picking a small selection of people to judge a contest instead of a wider audience, meaning these results will be even more skewed, and without any way to make it a blind assessment of casts, it will simply devolve into 'Hey this guy is my friend, he's the best' regardless of actual popularity.

Quick Comments

	syfChadMann:	wat?.. -_-
	NvRossi:	agree
	TtSYF.tRoy:	This dude nailed it, not worth doing as everyones casting is different and you cannot judge them evenly.

[|Erasmus|]

Originally Posted by Cordance

as I do not wish for it to just become a popularity contest

Casting -is- a popularity contest though... what makes you a successful caster is that lots of people want to watch/listen to your casts.

[UHF]

Originally Posted by xGKingBenji

This isn't what casting should be. Casters are entertainers, and as a result their reception varies amongst different people. When someone wins at Starcraft, there are clear cut rules as to why they won, with casters it is perfectly acceptable for one person to like one better, and another to prefer a different caster and both of their opinions are perfectly valid.

To make matters worse, you're picking a small selection of people to judge a contest instead of a wider audience, meaning these results will be even more skewed, and without any way to make it a blind assessment of casts, it will simply devolve into 'Hey this guy is my friend, he's the best' regardless of actual popularity.

Yet there are still caster searches (IPL), people putting out guides (Zepph), and people struggling to get the big breakout gigs they want. The want and need is there.

I agree with you that the reception of casters vary among different spectators. Some people dislike casters because of their voice, their background, or simply sometimes they don't like that person! Some people dislike casters due to their lack of game knowledge or the style of their casting. Some people dislike casters because they have a shit mic and stream quality.

Assuming the casters that participate are open to criticism and change, some good might come from the idea. Better than nothing right?

If anything, the one thing I'd be worried about is hurting the feelings of some of our casters, as I think there is a lot of room for improvement in our scene.

Quick Comments

syfChadMann:

Agreed. UHF so smart.

[NDG.Stitch]

I definitely think this is a very touchy issue. The thing about casting is, unlike being a player, it is VERY personal. How you cast, what attitude you cast with, why people enjoy your casting - is all part of who you are. When we judge someone's casting, we are in a way judging their character. Some people are more hyper and some are more chill, there are various things you may comment on. As entertainers, us casters can get viewers from all directions. Be it funny or hilarious, or informative and sharp, different fields of skills entertain a different group of people.

However, I think that instead of a very touchy word of "Judging", I think we should think of a more universally acceptable way. I think it is certainly fine to give feedback, but if we are giving ratings, it would be in fact, very based on the judges. I think that if we are to do anything like this we need very clear standards that we can mark from as judges rather than just saying whatever you want.

I think something like this would be great for the newer casters, for them to explore what they are good at. Meaning if someone just started and may not know what grabs their audiences attention, then these "judges" can give them a path they can take in the future.

Although I've taken a very comfortable backseat from casting, I'd definitely like to help out with judging as I am still pretty passionate about bringing up some good casters from the SEA region. Good idea, but I think there are things we can tweak with.

[Flamga]

Originally Posted by Baldie

Sounds great but a lot of work and time will need to go into this and as a result my questions is:

Why are you doing this and what do you want to achieve by doing this?

I agree with this 100% ^

But since everything else has been covered, what is in it for the casters that are being judged? For example we have Day[9]'s "So You Think You Can Cast" which is for the AHGL, which will obviously give up and coming casters a much larger audience. I dont know at the moment if time put in would be worth it. Feel free to prove me wrong though I do like the idea however and maybe we can all brainstorm a way to make it work?

[syfChadMann]

I think as far as 'judging the event' you'd want to quantify the elements that makes a successful caster. Such as game knowledge, attention to detail, hype stylistic nature, analytical style, manner of speech, production etc etc and develop a point system for all those elements. Then avg score from a panel of judges to score the cast. Making the 'judging' of it would be very easy to do objectively imo.

The important thing is why? - I totally agree with UHF that the quality of SEA casters is lower than we think and improvement is needed. This may be a good way of helping each other improve and develop our skills so when the lucky few are exposed to the international audience we do well and get more and more chances

Quick Comments

Flamga:

Now this I think I can agree with <3

[Cordance]

This is my effort to respond to those who have asked/made statements that need a response.

Originally Posted by Baldie

Why are you doing this and what do you want to achieve by doing this?

+ Show +

Short answer to improve the quality of casters well offering a platform for casters to display what they feel is their best work.

Originally Posted by xGKingBenji

This isn't what casting should be.

+ Show +

I completely agree casting should be a full time job the same as sports commentating but we are a long way from ever achieving such luxuries. (more on judging with Stitchs quote)

Originally Posted by |Erasmus|

Casting -is- a popularity contest though...

+ Show +

True, however if I just wanted to support the most popular caster all I would need is a poll and money. However if you read the response to Baldie that is not my goal.

Originally Posted by EveStitch

The thing about casting is, unlike being a player, it is VERY personal

I completely agree with your thoughts on the personal of casting and the limiting factor of judges Benji mentioned. The judging system which still need to be completely fleshed out is an attempt to create a situation where casters can know what areas another caster is performing (in the judges eyes) better at well letting them pick their strengths to match against another caster. The popular voted "skill" is to give the masses their voice. Judgement is the sticky business trying to come up with a encouraging system rather than a negative one is why I have been thinking on this idea for over 6 months and not getting too far.

+ [The idea logic] +

The idea of the format is in a head to head match caster v caster the casters can look at styles and attempt to pick a cast that not only shows their own strengths but also attempts to be strong in areas their opponent has skills. This gives rise to understanding other casters in the community possibility even creating new co casting combinations.

The areas of judgement once finalized will be the same for all rounds. Judges will give their weightings regardless of if the skill will be in play for the match.

There will be quite a few blind choices made the judges (accept for myself unless we get enough judges I am only needed for organization) will not know which skills are being rated. The casters will not know how the judge weightings will fall before they pick the skills to be rated on (also not know what the other caster picks). The casters will also not know what cast the other is picking when choice skills to be judged on. Finally the popular voted skill will be blind to everyone till the poll closes and the winner is named.

The judges making a A or B choice is to limit the casters getting feed back of a very negative nature. I feel scores of a low nature are disheartening where seeing another caster getting votes over you just lets you know an area to work on. The judges call does not mean someone is twice a better just better. I am hopeful not totally convinced this will help limit some of the judges discrepancy a match someone may rate game knowledge as a 10% where another might say 50% because number ranges are very subjective to the judge. If you feel differently let me know so we can discuss pros and cons of methods.

+ [An Example] +

A quick example using some skills and 3 judges scoring might end up. Keep in mind each judge only gets to pick which caster they think is better in a given area.

Casters	Production value	game knowledge	play by play	energy	dead space filling	language
Caster A	2	3	0	1	2	1
Caster B	1	0	3	2	1	2

The numbers are gathered. When the casters submitted their cast they picked skills they think their casts are strong. Caster A thinks his production values are top notch and his game knowledge. Where caster B thinks he is a master of play by play and energy levels. The popular vote is game knowledge. Giving Caster A, a 3 to 2 score in the contest. I am still of two minds of if overlapping skill choices should count for double or only be counted once. Im siding with double at the moment to limit a draw situation.

Originally Posted by FlashFlamga

what is in it for the casters that are being judged?

Until I have the rules fully fleshed out I dont want to put down numbers and such.

+ [For those who want to get their hopes up] +

However my plan is to have a dollar amount $300+ as the prize at the end which would be spent on a casting related gift. (no cash gift potentially possible for the winner to add funds to get what they really want) This would mean the dollar amount would be set but the gift would be custom based on who won. Someone might like a new mic someone else might wish for a new monitor or graphics card. Once the price was won the item and justification would then be organized (shipping costs would be a part of the prize)

[Zepph]

It's an interesting idea. A few questions though...

How exactly does this improve the casting quality from those competing? I understand that you're going to be judging it in a number of areas, but against what? For example if it were on a scale of 1 to 10 for each area, what constitutes a 1 and what constitutes a 10? Of course, feedback from the judges may be something that you send back to the competitors but to me it would kind of feel like getting my homework marked in class.

How will you determine that someone will be a good judge? e.g. A GM player as a judge could easily give a much harsher score in the game knowledge area than a BSG might.

How does this publicize SEA casters? It seems like it's for SEA by SEA and judged by SEA. Where does the international exposure come in and how are you going to interest people in it?

What do you mean by "single elimination"? A bo1 player bracket type thing where you have caster A vs caster B or a system where you cut out the lowest scoring half? Something else?

[Flamga]

In all honesty a prize pool would not bother me if was an opportunity to get my name out to a larger audience. Thats stuff is priceless and would happily enter just for that.

[Meatex]

Husky was the most popular caster for a long time while being generally bad
Now he isn't the most popular but is much better...
I would like some thing to allow caster hopefuls to have a chance to get some notice though

[LaughingMan]

I'm keen on entering this, i'm in that So you think you can cast comp for the AGHL right now too ^^