[Cyanide]

Possible changes for Magic Find mechanic

Edit:
I think this first paragraph from the blog post above is worth taking note of.

Since release it has become an increasingly common practice to keep a Magic Find (MF) set in your inventory, and swap it in shortly before a kill. Philosophically we don't have a problem with the practice. While players getting more Magic Find for their kills isn't a game breaker for us, many players have said they don't enjoy doing it but feel the benefit is too large to ignore. Since the call for a solution really comes from all of you, we'd like to invite you to chime in with your opinion on what the solution could be.
It's worth keeping in mind that if we do implement a method to alleviate gear-swapping in combat, we'll simultaneously be looking at ways for players to get an added MF bonus to compensate.

Gist of it

Option 1: Capping your magic find

Option 2: Magic find adjusts over time

Option 3: Moving average of your magic find

Option 4: Zero-out your magic for 3 minutes after swapping

Option 5: Gear swapping interacts with your Nephalem Valour

My thoughts

If I was forced to choose one, I'd pick option 1. I've already begun to wear pieces of MF gear without any useful stats on them. However, I do see that it doesn't really solve the swapping "problem", if you can call it one at all. I don't even know why this is a concern to be honest. It's probably not "working as intended" I guess.

Magic find is a tricky stat to begin with. Let's use gloves as an example. For min/maxing purposes, your ideal roll for 6 properties on a glove would be something like

• +main stat
• +vit
• +all resist
• +something resist? (monks love double rolls)
• +IAS/Crit Chance
• +crit damage

The last 3 being somewhat interchangeable I guess.

There's no place for any other stat if you are searching for your BIS gear. Even if you were to work MF into your set, you're going to end up with a minimum of 2 sets of gear. Magic find, and min/maxed gear.

This is a little bit tinfoil hattish, but I'll throw it out there.
Blizzard wants to make magic find a more desired stat on gear because it creates another set of desired gear for the RMAH. Your typical MF set usually has something like, Ransacking Gloves of Valour (+70 Vit, +20% Magic Find), same goes for other slots with maybe a main stat here and there or some rare piece with main stat, vit and magic find in it. By making MF a desired stat, your gear now reads like the 6 prop example above, with MF worked in.

Option 1:
As I said before, If I really had to choose, I'd like this best. Because I am able to hit 182-226% MF with NV with 3-4 pieces of MF gear on. I sacrifice a bit of DPS and HP, but I am able to clear act 2 easily, and act 3 if the mobs aren't with retarded affixes (otherwise i'd just switch back to my best gear).

This doesn't fiddle with current numbers as well. It is easy to understand. Only complain I can see is, "but I spent X amount of gold on MF weapons as well to get my MF to 350% !!! I want a refund!".

Option 2:
Once again, this doesn't eliminate gear swapping, if that's their intended objective. It'll just be a little more troublesome to do it. Probably the next best option. You can probably tell by now that I am okay with MF gear swapping.

Possible complain? As a melee class, I'd say "damn, now I got to try and survive longer in my weak ass MF gear to get the full benefit". This might be okay in Single Player, but in co-op, people might find it difficult to co-ordinate their gear swapping (people might actually feel it's not beneficial and don't gear swap in the end).

Option 3:
Moving average. This is just too clunky/complicated for most people I guess. My play-style wouldn't change at all, maybe I'd even benefit from it since I can run with 107%-152% MF without NV.
Perhaps the 30s capture for your average might dissuade people from gear swapping, because you'd have to kite for 30 seconds with your full MF gear before you can see a better overall MF.

Option 4:
This is a flat out aggressive move against gear swappers. I'm going to repeat myself here, I still don't see what the problem is!
If you ask me, this works entirely in favour for Blizzard (tinfoil). A lot more gear with MF will be going on to the RMAH (pure speculation on my part).

Option 5:
I don't know if NV > regular MF on gear in ALL situations. For bosses, NV is definitely better than regular MF. You get guaranteed rares with 5 stacks. I feel anything that messes with NV, is just flat out punishing players.
You're already gimping yourself when you choose to gear swap, potentially killing yourself (more apparent for melee I suppose). More often than not, your MF gear is going to be just one stat and MF. Why punish players for going through that trouble?

Option 6:
Not official but everybody wants this. 1 button quick switch. Gives EVERYONE a level playing field since EVERYONE can do it. The complainers can stop saying it's unfair. They can do it too. I'm all for this.

Maybe I'm a little short-sighted when it comes to this. I love gear swapping, I do it when I can (because it's really hard for melee), but I like the "thrill?" of doing it I guess.

Final note: I just hope they don't rush this and really pick one of the 5 options they have presented. Heck, don't make changes, for now even. I'd rather they redirect their efforts to things like Balance and UI issues.

Quick Comments

	nirvAnA:	nice!
	Nemo:	Thanks ! Option 5 massive facepalm ...

[Daboo]

I dont really understand why mf swapping is a problem, it's pretty much the toughest part of boss fights, to ensure the boss doesnt die before you get your gear on.

I just wish they give us back weapon swap..in this case gear swap like back in d2, quite surprising why they did not choose to include it in d3 in the first place, as it was part of many builds.

[Highlander]

I don't really agree with the tinfoil arguements. I think Blizzard just like stats on items.

Item diversity that makes sense and is widely understood is good for the game, MF fits this bill. Unfortunately, just making up a new stat would almost certainly fail to achieve this goal as well (Eg: "+% chance to remove debuffs on kill" might not be so cool).

Also, no matter what happens, the RMAH is going to be hit with a lot of MF gear soon.

As for the options, I'm really torn. I MF gear swap, however I don't enjoy it. Sometimes I don't bother swapping back if I'm in a strong party.

CONTROVERSIAL OPINION - At this stage, I'm thinking:

Option 1: Capping your magic find
Not bad, depends on rate. If low I'd never bother swapping, but the that means it kills MF as a stat so not so great IMO.

Option 2: Magic find adjusts over time
2nd favourite - Pretty good, but I'd want a slow rate.

Option 3: Moving average of your magic find
No. Too complicated.

Option 4: Zero-out your magic for 3 minutes after swapping
My personal favourite, explaining why below.

Option 5: Gear swapping interacts with your Nephalem Valour
I like piss farting about with my gear, this would be annoying. Popups are annoying too. Please just don't.

At the end of the day, I think I'd like them to hardkill MF switching or something close to. Not so much because I enjoy it, but because it would help separate the highest level players.

If I'm skilled/geared well enough to farm in full MF gear all the time without losing serious killspeed, I want to be rewarded relative to my peers. I don't want my edge to be countered by a quick series of inventory right clicks.

[breadfan]

Leave it as is please Blizzard

[Cyanide]

Originally Posted by Highlander

Item diversity that makes sense and is widely understood is good for the game, MF fits this bill. Unfortunately, just making up a new stat would almost certainly fail to achieve this goal as well (Eg: "+% chance to remove debuffs on kill" might not be so cool).

Yes, item diversity makes sense. I agree with that. However, MF DOES NOT fit this bill.
Here's why I think so.

The current "end game" is about loot farming. The process, is not fun however. MF is necessary to achieve that. By making MF a highly desired stat on gear, you're forcing players into making a choice to be more efficient in their farming, or more efficient in killing. You can't have one or the other, something has to make way. The other desired end-game, is the ability to kill hordes and hordes of monsters, but I digress.

Gear swapping on the other hand, gives you the option to do both. Yes, it's a little bit clunky. Having to click 10 times before a kill. This is why I'd rather play with a few pieces of MF gear on. I've geared up enough to the point where I am able to do that. People will get there, eventually. For bosses, I switch to max MF at the last moment.

The main complain was that it was "annoying to do", and you agree with that. So I say, fine tune the process, don't kill it.

This is where there's a balance of sorts. And that is also why I threw that tinfoil argument out there. Changing MF now seems like a good way to force people to get GOOD MF sets specifically for farming. Good meaning 6 props (5 props being your standard dps/survivability stats and 1 being MF). Eventually, people will want all their gear to be like that, your min/maxing is affected.

I'd rather magic find be a "nice to have stat" as opposed to a "must have stat".

Here's where they tried with item diversity, and failed.
2.1% Chance to stun on hit
23.5% chance to inflict 654-1249 Bleed damage over 5s

Effects like this HAD the potential, but they screwed it up big time because the effects are ignored. They do too little. I'd rather have 60 All resist then a 2.1% chance to stun.
I'd rather have 50 Dex over a chance to inflict bleed damage.

What they want is something that really affects your decision in gear min/maxing FOR FUN AND SMASHING MONSTER FACES IN. Not for maximizing your efficiency in farming.

Here's what I think is good for item diversity.

10% Chance to proc chain lightning that deals 6000 damage, can chain up to 3 targets and damage is split equally over the targets.

It's just an example.

But it's things like this that make me go "hmmm, do I want a really fun proc or do I want 200 dex on my weapon? Maybe if I go IAS heavy, I can maximize my proc chances! Cool, i'll do a IAS build around this weapon"

[FSDarkNemesis]

Leave it as it is. I'm good with the MF Rates thus far. But can boost drops for Level 63 items more.

[Highlander]

Originally Posted by Cyanide

The current "end game" is about loot farming. The process, is not fun however. MF is necessary to achieve that. By making MF a highly desired stat on gear, you're forcing players into making a choice to be more efficient in their farming, or more efficient in killing. You can't have one or the other, something has to make way.

...

Gear swapping on the other hand, gives you the option to do both."

See, I actually think choices make the game fun and interesting. Right now, you have the option to do both, so no decision is made.

When the game is about loot, I think MF is a great stat, because it's not about killing vs farming. It's all about farming. If I find a better weapon with a higher DPS, I've increased my farming ability. If I pick up a weapon with lower DPS but 20% MF, I should have to make the tough call there and I don't currently.

As for stat deversity, you are absolutely right in that not all stats are worthwhile. But that is also how it is supposed to be. Your six stat gloves needs to have a chance to be garbage and it can't be if all the stats are sweet. It also makes the other stats feel awesome due to their relative power.

Your example would be so good though: "% chance to cast X" was always cool.

As always, enjoy your point of view Cyanide. Whilst I might differ, you always come across well. :-)