[CHoBo(kice)]

Originally Posted by iM Mafia

whatever, at the end of the day if i wanted to hack online i could and no one would ever suspect it or you guys wont ever catch me because ill be better than chobo at using hacks and my excuses would be just as good

what you cant argue is the bullshit that doesn't add up

you can't not ever practice or train and be good

you can't do so shit at lans and win online tournaments so convincingly

The thing is I don't use them sir...

[jayaiwhy]

Originally Posted by jayaiwhy

*TABiggun: *
**** off idiot, you clearly havn't been reading this thread at all

I've been paying attention to this thread, and mostly annoyed by your rude responses towards chobo

1.
A brief comment from Chobo about Carnage, and you reply with

"Noone cares about this. Please start responding to the analysis that people have written so that a judgement can be made."

2.
"Just for the record, Do You HacK?????"

3.
"Quote me when you're talking to me."

4.
"Apart from the random people trying to troll in the thread aka targa, noone is being rude or name calling."

5.
then this, towards me and I believe I have said nothing wrong when I dropped a fact of life

"**** off idiot, you clearly havn't been reading this thread at all"

I'm being a bit biased, we come from the same city. Of course I don't want to accuse him.

As delete mentioned earlier, the way you see those replays is the way you want to see chobo.
Unless you have a personal grudge against chobo, I don't know why you are being so offensive to him. Ease up?

Quick Comments

	ROOTPetraeus:	<3
	Rage:
	xGKingdelete:
	nirvAnA:	<3

[iM MaFia]

Originally Posted by AsGCHoBo

The thing is I don't use them sir...

thats what i would say too if i was hacking

Quick Comments

xGKingdelete:

it's what i would say if i wasn't hacking

[CHoBo(kice)]

Edge: i still cant believe you ******* 6-0 jazbas out of nowhere

Dont bad mouth Oxygen, wth man are you serious? He was one of my favourite SEA Terrans, and he was top 16.

This was future seasons in which I improved, I got further coaching from a US top 16 gm, who taught me that lovely mech build with the gas first opening. I just had a really good run with it until people like pig and few others cought on roach b/lingd me hard so moved on.

Quick Comments

	x5.Revenant:	Female ESL Champ.
	TAEdgE:	im not bad mouthing oxygen haha, im saying oxy vs jaz in history oxy would be hard pressed to go 50/50 with him

[CHoBo(kice)]

Originally Posted by im mafia

thats what i would say too if i was hacking

okayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

[x5.Revenant]

Originally Posted by MrToast

There is zero actual 'evidence' if you actually look at things for yourself and not blindly trust people like Rossi

I don't know if you haven't been following the thread, not checked out the VODs that Rossi and Mafia made PLUS all the other evidence that people have wrote, or you're just simply ignorant.

Quick Comments

AxSGRiM:

[TABiggun]

Originally Posted by jayaiwhy

I've been paying attention to this thread, and mostly annoyed by your rude responses towards chobo

1.
A brief comment from Chobo about Carnage, and you reply with

"Noone cares about this. Please start responding to the analysis that people have written so that a judgement can be made."

2.
"Just for the record, Do You HacK?????"

3.
"Quote me when you're talking to me."

4.
"Apart from the random people trying to troll in the thread aka targa, noone is being rude or name calling."

5.
then this, towards me and I believe I have said nothing wrong when I dropped a fact of life

"**** off idiot, you clearly havn't been reading this thread at all"

I'm being a bit biased, we come from the same city. Of course I don't want to accuse him.

As delete mentioned earlier, the way you see those replays is the way you want to see chobo.
Unless you have a personal grudge against chobo, I don't know why you are being so offensive to him. Ease up?

lol, I have been more that patient and only bringing up non biased evidence that I have had a long and serious thought over. I gave my analysis and the only replys I get from chobo are random sentence comments that are responding to silly things.

1. For some reason he stated that he would not respond to any accusations, then goes on a random argument and accuses cR of having a vendetta.

2. I asked so I can understand what his standing is. To that point in the thread he hadn't explained anything of substance. At least I got his attention so he would finally start responding, which he then did.

3. I already explained that comment in a previous post. Again, please read all the posts about this issue instead of randomly quoting stuff.

4. This is a true statement. We are not being aggressive or malicious. Many people have taken the time to give a long and detailed analysis. And it wasn't until just moments ago when we got any kind of response to our analysis.

5. When you make an idiotic post like this one:

Originally Posted by jayaiwhy

even if he explains, all you guys are going to do is "but (___________________________)"
then chobo can reply with "but (_________________________________)"
then you guys say "but (______________________________)"

it's so silly,

I feel obliged to respond because it is completely untrue.

I have not said anything insulting to chobo and given an analysis of what I saw in the replays. I don't have any personal grudge against chobo and I'm not being offensive to him.

Please stop responding to this thread because you have literally contributed nothing.

I on the other hand, I have spent all of last night and this whole day analyzing replays so please just go away.

Quick Comments

	x5.Revenant:
	xGKingdelete:

[xGKingdelete]

Originally Posted by iM Mafia

ok delete, first of all ur a protoss u wont understand TvZ

yes, I don't understand TvZ, so yes, my points need validating. Could you correct me on my points? Mainly:
-I didn't find anything suspicious about the viking rally/pathing, it isn't "starsense/luck/coincidence" or "best viking control in the world", but just standard, easy overlord hunting. From what I know at least, I've only watched TvZ.
He manages to find the overlords because he sends the viking through the entire map, excluding the middle part (zerg's tend to keep their overlords away from the middle of the map in ZvT don't they?). I think it would be a massive coincidence if he didn't find all of the overlords. But again, I've only watched TvZ, and haven't played terran myself aside from a few fun games and the campaign.

Originally Posted by iM Mafia

9:57 - 9:58 : Realises that theres another overlord at the bottom left of his base which is closer and would scout his 3rd command centre plus tech so changes his rally to kill that one instead.

the smart thing to do, obviously. i wouldn't go for the right one straight away though because its a little too sus if u kill 2 straight away just like that. (it wasnt gonna scout anything anyway)

The smart thing to do would be to check the right side of his base anyway. If there is an overlord, there's an overlord, if there is no overlord, then the zerg is guaranteed to have no overlords to scout in the next few minutes. That's what I usually do in my stargate openings at least, but maybe it's different in TvZ. I don't know.

Originally Posted by iM Mafia

but you have to add all the pieces together, first he never does well at lans, he only does well in online tournaments

2nd he was gold in season 1 then became gm in season 2 (sign of something too perhaps )

3rd he has terrible mechanics but the best decision making and tactics ive seen (sign of something)

4th he plays perfectly without ever needing any information like for examples,
almost never taking watchtowers for vision
never scanning and when he does he sees spires or greater spires so he can put down 3 starports at the exact timing he needs to
has perfect viking usage
positions his units perfectly

like someone this good and doesnt even play much do u think thats right?

ppl get good because of the dedication and the amount of hard work they put into playing the game
yet he claims to never do that, nothing makes sense to me, too many signs leaning towards something suspicious

Yes. I actually completely agree with you on those points, as do the majority of people in this thread. But that doesn't mean that he has hacked in this game. It doesn't mean you can use inconclusive evidence. It doesn't mean that he must be banned and condemned for everything after one day of investigation, as many people in this thread have been pushing for. To those people, can you just not post unless you have something relevant or constructive to add, and not your own opinions?

The only thing I find suspicious is the lack of scouting and controlling of the watchtower. No one has addressed UHF's or my points. Until someone does, I don't see how this replay is evidence of hacking.


I am not saying that he doesn't maphack. I am saying that those specific points aren't conclusive evidence that he maphacks.

I hope people will consider waiting for a week or so, while people continue to analyse games, before making their judgement.

[MrToast]

Originally Posted by Revenant

I don't know if you haven't been following the thread, not checked out the VODs that Rossi and Mafia made PLUS all the other evidence that people have wrote, or you're just simply ignorant.

I checked out ALL of the evidence and even wrote up an analysis of one of the games if you would have read more than 2 pages. Rossi made the viking video which is hardly hacking since almost all Terrans send their vikings to obvious overlord positions. Chobo also explained his reasoning behind changing the rally point to make sure his third wasn't shown.

Rossi also brought up chobos 'screen lock' when in the SAME replay Rossi's camera was shown 'screen locking' at certain times in the replay. Which also makes it far far from conclusive evidence unless you want to ban Rossi also.

Mafias whole argument has been brought down 'That's exactly what a hacker would say.' because he cannot conclusively explain his way around Chobos reasoning for what is (to be honest) standard Terran play.

If anyone here is being ignorant it would be you for not looking at both sides of the argument.


Feel free to show me any 'concrete' evidence that chobo hacks please.

Quick Comments

	NvRossi:	lost cause
	x5.Revenant:	cause lost
	TAriiChard:	blind
	AxSGRiM:	what?
	Rage:	counter rep
	syfMiley:	dont think so
	xGKingdelete:	maybe try to refute his previous points instead of neg rep?
	nirvAnA:	Agree with delete, respond to his post
	Zepph:	Again, if you don't have top level knowledge I don't think you're qualified to give good insight.
	neKo:	So rossi is a hacker aye ?
	crAzerk:	counter for pointless bad rep

[cRSenSei]

Quick Comments

	[TA]LoSt:	ahahaha
	syfPhoenix:

[jayaiwhy]

Originally Posted by TABiggun

lol, I have been more that patient and only bringing up non biased evidence that I have had a long and serious thought over. I gave my analysis and the only replys I get from chobo are random sentence comments that are responding to silly things.

1. For some reason he stated that he would not respond to any accusations, then goes on a random argument and accuses cR of having a vendetta.

2. I asked so I can understand what his standing is. To that point in the thread he hadn't explained anything of substance. At least I got his attention so he would finally start responding, which he then did.

3. I already explained that comment in a previous post. Again, please read all the posts about this issue instead of randomly quoting stuff.

4. This is a true statement. We are not being aggressive or malicious. Many people have taken the time to give a long and detailed analysis. And it wasn't until just moments ago when we got any kind of response to our analysis.

5. When you make an idiotic post like this one:



I feel obliged to respond because it is completely untrue.

I have not said anything insulting to chobo and given an analysis of what I saw in the replays. I don't have any personal grudge against chobo and I'm not being offensive to him.

Please stop responding to this thread because you have literally contributed nothing.

I on the other hand, I have spent all of last night and this whole day analyzing replays so please just go away.

How is what I said idiotic and not true?
Isn't that how humans behave on planet earth? Don't we argue back when arguments are being thrown at?

This argument is never going to end.
How can Chobo actually prove that he didn't hack?

[TABiggun]

Originally Posted by jayaiwhy

How is what I said idiotic and not true?
Isn't that how humans behave on planet earth? Don't we argue back when arguments are being thrown at?

This argument is never going to end.
How can Chobo actually prove that he didn't hack?

No, you said we are blindly attacking chobo no matter what he says which isn't true.

Chobo can clear himself by responding to the analysis with his thought processes and decision making. Once again, this has been said throughout the thread.

Unless you have some kind of analysis to add, please **** off and stop posting in this thread.

Quick Comments

Snx.FigJig:

calm

[SanG]

At the risk of getting flamed, I think TargA's right LOL.
All the people who's "defending" chobo are from perth
WHERE ARE YOU YAAAAANG

[Sedz]

I disagree with everyone saying he should be 'aggressively' defending himself. If you know you didn't hack, and everyone was accusing you of hacking because you had just won something, because I'm pretty sure no one has ever made this much of a fuss about CHobo before hand, any smart person would just ignore them, hell, they were even talking about this on SotG. Why the hell would you respond when all it's going to do is put more fuel into the fire and more reasons for people to accuse you?

Anyways, everyone in this thread bar Mafia really has no right to accuse CHobo, most of you guys are probably just upset because he has beaten you in the past, you guys really shouldn't be talking at all with emotions clouding your judgement.

I decided to have a look at the Shakuras replay and give my thoughts.

6:12 sees 2 spines and 2 queens, pulls back everything

we had a discussion with terrans and zergs, if you see 2 spines and 2 queens you still commit cause this usually means the zerg has no units, and 20 scvs 14 marines kills queens without energy and spines really fast. At this point Mafia was pumping out lings and had speed almost finished. Chobo did not see the lings.

This is probably the most suspicious piece of evidence anyone has presented. Yeah, it was a ridiculous move to pull back, but let's analyse what could have been going through his mind. You pretty much have 3 options in the situation;

1) Attack with the 8 marines and SCV you have directly there. He'd probably lose the majority of his marines, which makes the all-in void anyways
2) He waits for his scv's to catch up, probably another 5-6 seconds, at this point he can assume Mafia could have banelings or speed lings or more units to defend
3) He pulls back, extremely behind, but still in the game.

Even at around 5:30 when his camera flicks to mafia's base as the baneling nest is building, the camera stops at the un-taken gas, the bane nest is hardly in view, surely the hack would centre on the building?

7:05 kinda suspect that he keeps calm and and doesnt raise his supply depots when the ling counter attack is coming. Imo, he knows exactly how many lings are coming. He even keeps one of his raxes lifted, when in reality a ton of lings and banelings could be coming and that would mean game over.


Probably the most baseless accusation in this thread. He doesn't even scout the attack coming, the lings run in before his rax has a chance to land, and his depots are down to allow movement of his scv to build the CC on the low ground. What you are saying here is, oh, he knows the amount of lings because he hacks and wants to kill them, when in reality, he hasn't scouted anything, has barracks about to land and completely wall off, therefore there is no need to keep his depots up.


11:50 takes the 6o clock expand, cause he knows that mafia is making infestors, chobo has 2 engineering bays but no turrets, still havent scanned or scouted mafias base.

Nothing really to say here, while this does look suss, it can also be pinned down to CHobo taking a huge risk, which he is extremely fond of. You can't really deny this isn't down a fuckton in all sorts of games when someone is behind and wants to take a risk. This could also be put down to CHobo playing Mafia a bunch and knowing his play style, which I know for a fact he has, because he sends me his replays because I really like to analyse mafia's play style and learn some tips, so he could have assumed no mutas.

12:50 lifts up his wall, makes reactors, and takes the 4th. He has no idea what Mafia is doing ( this is also the timing where a ling bling muta attack would happen) , chobo has no tanks and is sitting calm with his marines.

Not really seeing how this is any indication here, a lot of terrans do this, he has tanks coming out as he is going to secure that base, at worse the zerg attacks and makes him lift that base, he still has a third up and running, he has medivacs coming out too and upgrades finishing.

14:00 Was gonna send 2 drop ships to mafias main,but knows that mafia has that covered with overlords, he sends them to mafias 5th that was about to be made, he sends the drop so mafias overlord doesnt see it.

Yeah, while this does look suss, once again we can just pin this down to a change of mind decision, maybe he wants to deny/scout for that fifth? As the previous person mentions, if he did hack, he would see the ovie and the ling on patrol.

15:10 mafias great spire is building, chobo ( still has no map vision or knows what mafia is doing) scans mafias main, and then his natural. Right after he drops 3 starports. Imo he does this so it doesnt look suspect.

He scans around 15:10, which most terrans would agree is a good timing. And then he responds once he sees the tech. This is one of those stupid accusations again.

16:45 stims a bunch of units to avoid mafia burrowing his ling at the 5th base. Makes a turret too to avoid burrowed infestors.

He sees the ling kill his scv, how is there anything wrong with this?

18:20 hits the money scan right on top of all of mafias unit and spines(3rd time he scanned this game)[/COLOR]

He scans in a generic spot where zergs almost always keep their army when not advancing, he also has vision and sees nothing, once again, nothing wrong here.

19:10 chobo has a sensor tower, mafia backs, chobo follows the units in the fog, moves the vikings to kill the broods and then scans. (thats not how its supposed to be done)


He knows broods are there because he sees them in sensor range, they are the slowest moving units, easy to distinguish, so he sends vikings after them, then scans to make sure he doesn't get caught by festors.

from 19:30 – 20:30 he has no map control even though he could easily claim it with marines (in theory) then he drops two scans sees everything.

Another one of those, he does this to throw us off his trail. He has hardly any army and has a sensor tower there to see if the army is coming, he also knows that it's infested with creep there, why risk moving his army forward when there's creep everywhere when he can sit where it is, build it up a bit more while still defending the majority of his bases.


21:20 repositions his units when mafia is moving out, doesnt spread his units at all even though there are red dots on the mini map from the sensor towers ( I would be ******* afraid of the infestors)

As someone mentioned, he is macro'ing previously to this, and sieges up as soon as he sees the lings popping out on the edge of the FoW.

25:00 hits money scan[/COLOR]

Sees the army in the sensor tower, and scans to see what Mafia has.

[NvRossi]

please try not to disregard comments that are stated over multiple replays based off you watching one ******* replay

Quick Comments

Zealo:

he's saying the evidence from that replay is pretty weak, stop fighting straw men

[x5.Revenant]

Originally Posted by MrToast

I checked out ALL of the evidence and even wrote up an analysis of one of the games if you would have read more than 2 pages. Rossi made the viking video which is hardly hacking since almost all Terrans send their vikings to obvious overlord positions. Chobo also explained his reasoning behind changing the rally point to make sure his third wasn't shown.

Rossi also brought up chobos 'screen lock' when in the SAME replay Rossi's camera was shown 'screen locking' at certain times in the replay. Which also makes it far far from conclusive evidence unless you want to ban Rossi also.

Mafias whole argument has been brought down 'That's exactly what a hacker would say.' because he cannot conclusively explain his way around Chobos reasoning for what is (to be honest) standard Terran play.

If anyone here is being ignorant it would be you for not looking at both sides of the argument.


Feel free to show me any 'concrete' evidence that chobo hacks please.

Hardly hacking? I beg to defer. I've been reading the thread from the first Post that Rossi made till the end of it. You can verify it by looking through every one of it and seeing my reps in it.

• The first two VODs show standard viking rally for a Terran. However, the first VOD showed that he rallied right into 3overlords(if not more). The 3rd VOD of him vs Pel is the evidence where he 1) does not follow the standard rally pattern that he did for the previous games 2) totally omits scouting both sides of his base and instead rallies straight into an ovie.
  
  
• Ender vs Chobo on Ohana where he looks into Ender's base: My assumption is that he didnt hold down his screen lock button at that point of time. No sane player will look at his opponent's base without doing anything(e.g. sending a unit into it). Any seasoned veteran will tell you the same.
  
  
• Watch Mafia's 1hour VOD, it does have a chunk of the "evidence" that you require. The fact that you said "Mafia's whole argument has been brought down 'That's exactly what a hacker would say.'" is a sign that you obviously didn't go through the evidence presented to you through and through.
  
  
• Edit: SC2Gear Logs too.
  

I've been playing him for seasons after seasons on ladder(ever since he was YaMaMa), and he's simply not the same calibre as Mafia nor TargA to 3-0 and 2-0 them respectively. Sorry, you simply don't have the adequate knowledge,SC2 or not, to be in this. Stay outta it.

Quick Comments

	xGKingdelete:	the point of this thread is to have everyone contribute so we can make a fair judgement
	RicocheT:	Just because he doesn't have adequate knowledge doesn't mean he can't give his opinion
	TASlowHands:
	Zealo:	wait, so now he hacks on ladder against everyone except you? :S

[Sedz]

Originally Posted by NvRossi

please try not to disregard comments that are stated over multiple replays based off you watching one ******* replay

I'm not disregarding comments unless they are incredibly retarded, merely replying to the accusations based on this one particular replay. If more replays are given that haven't already been analysed, and any suss timings pointed out, I will have a look if 12 other people haven't already and give my honest opinion (as I did previously).

So far, most of it is just a lot of people being butthurt or bandwagon'ing.

EDIT: As for the brief moments of time where he stops for a few seconds, I can offer one explanation, during the games he was talking to me on skype, thus he would have to alt tab, I can even provide logs with time stamps if you guys are interested and they can be matched up to the games.

[ROOT`iaguz]

Ender vs Chobo on Ohana where he looks into Ender's base: My assumption is that he didnt hold down his screen lock button at that point of time. No sane player will look at opponent's map without doing anything(e.g. sending a unit into it). Any seasoned veteran will tell you the same.

Wrong. I've looked at bases to double check what I'd seen plenty of times.

Although if YaMaMa, his old id, was a confirmed hacker then I would actually condemn him purely off that and encourage others to do the same.

Quick Comments

	x5.Revenant:	My assumption is wrong on this habit then.
	Zealo:	i thought i was insane for a second

[Sent1nel]

Whilst I'll freely admit I haven't spent much time in SC2, there are far too many coincidences for my liking relating to "pathing" and unit selection/movement. The scouting of overlords might be a contentious point however selecting units at the right time every time when the player should have no knowledge of what is happening or about to happen is pretty damning.

I've been on anti-cheat teams for upwards of 18 years for FPS games and there are plenty of occasions where it wasn't clear cut. Having an in-depth knowledge of the game and how it should play is where professional analysis really comes in. Some people commenting in this thread may or may not be able to decipher some of the nuisances of the game/s.

Could someone please provide me with the contact details for this Catz? I will happily pay him $100 USD in order for him to review the demo's openly for everyone in SC2SEA to discuss and hopefully put this to bed once and for all.

Quick Comments

	TAEdgE:
	cRSenSei:	catz isn't worth $100
	iM MaFia:	yesssssssssssss
	Peleus:	Thanks for the sentiment at least.
	nirvAnA:	nice <3
	syfPhoenix:	^^ 100% agreement
	Snx.FigJig:	team generous!
	RicocheT:
	LennX:
	crAzerk:	settling this nonsense likeaboss
	TCPLemminks:	generous, but an anakysis from someone like Catz isn't worth $100
	Zealo:	very generous, but why would you do this?
	DM.MCZ.Polaris:	Giving is better than receiving! Sweet! I support!
	neKo:	Like it!
	fray`Alpha:

[x5.Revenant]

@Delete: I agree with you totally, but when someone just disses off all the effort( that everyone pieced together and spent so much time on) with his ignorance, you know he does not belong.