[mGGDaedalus]

Hey guys thought I'd try to tap into the hive mind of knowledge for some advice. It's a ZvP on shakuras plateau (diamond level).

Replay: http://www.sc2sea.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=555

Some points of interest from what I've observed:
-I'm having a lot of trouble breaking defensive protoss and turning my advantage into a killing blow (and trouble knowing when I can kill the opponent and when I need to retreat and econ/tech up)
-Late game I'm struggling to find the right unit combinations against certain protoss deathballs (plus my micro is horrible), especially when they add in voids + mothership it complicates things a lot
-I chose this replay because I actually did try to do a bit of harass with nydus/drops etc but didn't feel like it accomplished what I wanted it do

Anyway I'm sure you guys will find plenty more I'm doing wrong, zvp is really frustrating me lately

[PTSZ]

Hi Josh, first of all - that was an impressive game and you are definitely a good player. I'm struggling with the same things you are, so I don't know if I can give any major advice. Your expansion timings were good. Upgrades good. Very few mistakes. But a few things maybe to help -

1. Your drone count was slightly low in the mid-late game, hovering in the 60's and then 50's in the very late game. I think somewhere between 70 - 80 drones is supposedly optimal. Basically you want to be banking up a shitload of minerals because vs late-game protoss who is on 3+ bases, you are going to need to remax your army more than twice.

2. The nydus play didn't really work out but maybe try this - when you denied his 3rd base with speedlings and his army moved out, you could have sunk another nydus in the back of his base and then punished the protoss for being out of position. Nydus is hard to use correctly, but I think we need a 'terran mindset' and be hitting two or three places at the same time.

3. When you dropped in his fourth base with that large roach/hydra mix around 23:00, it might have been best to just snipe the nexus and then load-up and retreat. You lost a lot in that engagement with little returns.

4. I was amazed when your massive Brood-lord and Ultralisk army couldn't end the game... I would be frustrated too. Out of desperation we can sometimes just try and make a zerg deathball of our own, but I guess zerg just doesn't work that way. When it died, the game was over right there... too many minerals sunk into expensive units that didn't do a lot of damage, with no bank of minerals to remax.

I would really like to get a master or grandmaster's view of this, and get some advice on dealing with protoss once they have more 3 or more bases.

Quick Comments

Nemo:

Good advice

[mGGDaedalus]

Originally Posted by PTSZ

Hi Josh, first of all - that was an impressive game and you are definitely a good player. I'm struggling with the same things you are, so I don't know if I can give any major advice. Your expansion timings were good. Upgrades good. Very few mistakes. But a few things maybe to help -

1. Your drone count was slightly low in the mid-late game, hovering in the 60's and then 50's in the very late game. I think somewhere between 70 - 80 drones is supposedly optimal. Basically you want to be banking up a shitload of minerals because vs late-game protoss who is on 3+ bases, you are going to need to remax your army more than twice.

2. The nydus play didn't really work out but maybe try this - when you denied his 3rd base with speedlings and his army moved out, you could have sunk another nydus in the back of his base and then punished the protoss for being out of position. Nydus is hard to use correctly, but I think we need a 'terran mindset' and be hitting two or three places at the same time.

3. When you dropped in his fourth base with that large roach/hydra mix around 23:00, it might have been best to just snipe the nexus and then load-up and retreat. You lost a lot in that engagement with little returns.

4. I was amazed when your massive Brood-lord and Ultralisk army couldn't end the game... I would be frustrated too. Out of desperation we can sometimes just try and make a zerg deathball of our own, but I guess zerg just doesn't work that way. When it died, the game was over right there... too many minerals sunk into expensive units that didn't do a lot of damage, with no bank of minerals to remax.

I would really like to get a master or grandmaster's view of this, and get some advice on dealing with protoss once they have more 3 or more bases.

Hmm thanks for the advice. I do tend to lose track of my drone count sometimes in the late game (as they all slowly turn into buildings haha). And yeah I partly left the drop army at the 4th base to fight because I was maxed with too many hydras against a colossus deathball and I needed to clear supply, but there was probably much better ways to utilise those units instead of suiciding them. But yeah being more multi-pronged with my nydus worms is a good idea.

I guess it was a mistake for me to have so little anti-air in my final deathball but it's scary having hydras in your army at that point in the game, and corruptors really don't do that well when there's stalkers+void ray in the mix.

[Apth]

Originally Posted by crAzerk

http://www.sc2sea.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=545

It's a FFE into a +2 timing attack. Lost to it twice in a row, no idea how to beat it.
Tips? Advice?

(I know at one point I seem to have 1000 minerals or something that's one mistake so you can skip on that. Probably should start mining gas on the 3rd base)

I thought my droning was alright till the push came, so... what was the problem? Did I have to get spines? or another unit comp?

This is actually something I have horrible issues with myself, and after watching through that rep I was still pretty stuck for ideas.

Thankfully, PiG is baller and reviewed your rep already.

For anyone who didn't watch PiG's POV show -
http://www.twitch.tv/ttpig/b/298963592

Crazerk's rep analysis starts at 1hr5min.

My thoughts after going through PiG's analysis -

Choosing the quick third as a response to FFE means your build 'stages' need to be quite clearly defined. What I mean by this is that instead of gradually teching while you drone, you drone, stop droning, and then start teching. (this is how I interpreted PiG's comments about 'droning efficiently')

From what I gather, the problem in that particular instance was that you finished droning quite late because you started teching while you were droning, so you had very few units.
It might be better to try and hold that push with, say, 1/1 Roach/Ling, rather than trying to get Ranged Hydras and +2 ranged attacks.

Again, this is something I've had serious problems with, and I'm really just pillaging PiG's magnificent brain.

Go watch that VoD for intelligent feedback.

[Apth]

Originally Posted by FaDeJoshboy

Hey guys thought I'd try to tap into the hive mind of knowledge for some advice. It's a ZvP on shakuras plateau (diamond level).

Replay: http://www.sc2sea.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=555

Your mechanics are solid, and you made good earlygame decisions, so I'm going to skip over that.

Nydus Harass
After you bounced the first Blink push - that was very well executed by the way - you had a distinct advantage over your opponent. You made a good decision by taking another base, but should have focused on denying your opponent's third rather than trying to do damage to his tech and production. Keeping your opponent on two bases while you take a fourth would have put you really far ahead.

Although you did end up taking out his third with a ling run-by, the two Nydus Worms didn't do any damage and burned through units and resources.

Dealing with the Deathball
It's really difficult to break Protoss deathballs. Period. One way to deal with this is to continually trade armies throughout the game. Even if you don't get even trades, keeping Sentry/Collossi numbers low is your best bet to avoid getting rolled vs late game deathballs.

Lategame Engagement

• You crushed him. Cool. Two points on your followup -
• Probes are a lot easier to kill than production buildings. Going after the undefended third and fourth - which were his primary mining bases - might have been a better decision.
• You remaxed on Hydras - Hydras are really only good with Roach backup. Remaxing on Ling/Roach with maybe a spattering of Hydras would mean a quicker followup attack from you, and probably the end of the game.

Summary
Zerg doesn't have a deathball. You need to be trading, pressuring, harassing. Don't expect to win in the lategame if you just sit back and let your opponent do whatever he feels like doing.

Press your advantages. Go for easy targets. Don't let your opponent get comfortable.

Hope that's helpful

Quick Comments

mGGDaedalus:

cheers for the advice

[crAzerk]

Oh wow PiG reviewed it! Lol didn't know, didn't watch the show cos I was in school. Thanks for pointing it out shall go check it out!
Thanks Apth!

One additional problem of the build is that it's crazy difficult to scout - it looks deceivingly like a 6gate timing of some sort (+1 and/or blink) which requires earlier production of units vs a +2 timing. That's why I was 'teching while droning' as I didn't want to be caught w my pants down in a +1 timing

[HowAreYa]

Hey crAzerk, have a look at FaDeJoshboy's replay. Protoss opponent did a +2 attack blink timing and he crushed it. It will give you a sweet idea of the droning then teching concept.

@ FaDeJoshboy - Instead of that drop, if you kept the army with your broods and attacked I think you wouldve crushed. Just because broodlings are targeted and the rest of you army owns his. He wont be able to focus fire your corruptors and broodlords, so at a minimum you wouldve taken out his colossi and a big chunk of his army.

As for your question about army composition, I dont think ultra + broodlord are that good, mainly because all the broods are melee and get in the way of all ultra's which are big and melee also. And obviously no anti air. I would choose one or the other and add some infestors and roaches. Micro is basicly: fungal stalkers. wait for broods to attack out of range. If they blink in, attack with roaches as well. (if useing ultra's, fungal then a-move, then fungal) And if you have time, queens. Your creep spread was off the chain so they would move fast. Its hard to micro with fungal and transfuses but its so so good if you can. Infestors and queens help with the anti air as well.

Ive made a zerg deathball vs my protoss mate a few times. I cant see it happening in a real game unless your alot better than your opponent, (so apth's advice is better) but I had a few ultras and a few roaches.A few more infestors. Alot of broods and queens. He had archons, high templar with storms. Zealot stalker obv with like 6 collosi and a bunch of voids. (no immortal or mothership thankfully) Short story - I was spamming transfuses vs storm and his army composition and I lost 6 supply (one ultra I guess) out of my max and destroyed his army. my upgrades etc were better and he didnt feedback my queens but my point is it still showed me power of mass transfuses.

[ToRPandarine]

And we're back ladies and gentlemen to see more of me falling about in Starcraft 2. :l

http://www.sc2sea.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=559

Latest gameplay all of which are custom games where I'm trying to get back into the swing of macro and just plain getting timings down.

If you notice, I either expand too late, get to greedy, have no army, ain't spending money, forgot upgrades, ain't harassing, not having control of the map or a mix of...well...everything. :l

Any feedback on what I did wrong would...well...be a good kick in the place where the sun doesn't shine on (unless it does, then something is wrong somewhere lol) to what I don't know what I'm already screwing around with.

Thanks and GLHF

[ToRPandarine]

OMG...This can't be true! An expansion to my latest fail :l Two games, two different players, both .

http://www.sc2sea.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=560

I went MMM on both games. The game versus TradeZero was tense cause he's a friend IRL and he literally rolls me over in all the games we play unless he decides to do something totally different (in other words, mess around with me and mind, he still gets away with it).

The game versus Delraich was a coin toss. I've played against him a couple of times (all friendly customs) and I come out on top...well...after some uneasy moments (*remembers the time he kept the pressure with Zealots and Archons* *shivers*).

I'd appreciate feedback on both games AND both players have asked feedback on their gameplay too.

Looking forward to the feedback on this :P That and I just realised that there's gonna be one hell of a reply to this. :l (Sorry?)

Thanks and GLHF

[Nemo]

Originally Posted by ThePandarine

And we're back ladies and gentlemen to see more of me falling about in Starcraft 2. :l

http://www.sc2sea.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=559

Latest gameplay all of which are custom games where I'm trying to get back into the swing of macro and just plain getting timings down.

If you notice, I either expand too late, get to greedy, have no army, ain't spending money, forgot upgrades, ain't harassing, not having control of the map or a mix of...well...everything. :l

Any feedback on what I did wrong would...well...be a good kick in the place where the sun doesn't shine on (unless it does, then something is wrong somewhere lol) to what I don't know what I'm already screwing around with.

Thanks and GLHF

ThePandarine, don't put 5 replays. Choose one to be analysed. There's no point in analysing them all and it takes too much time. You're much likelly to make the same general mistakes in every game.


ThePandarine vs iRLProAnnn

League : Practice vs
Map : Metapolis cross position
Length : 23:40
Version 1.4.1

Replay Analysis

• Opening Rax late gaz expand. On Metal, the natural is not easy to defend against hellions, that's the perfect map to make aggressive reactor hellions into expand instead.

• ProAnnn is playing excessively safe and aggressive because you're low leaguer and he don't want to outmacro you too much. Let's say that what a gold / silver would do. A higher league playing would have far less glings in that moment considering you expanded this soon.

• 10 minutes, he's taking a third, both your bases are more or less saturated, you have your tech operational, making units. That's the last timing for a late push and expand. A general rule is that vs if you have not make damage before 10 minutes or you have lost. You did not, you lost.

• 13:28 : You did not pressure, no timing push before 10, you now have lost. 5 bases vs 2, 63 Workers vs 44, 79 vs 50 army food. You're too far behind. Now the only have to make units and have thousand of resources and larvae to do that, ha can trade and remax at libidum. He just have to deny your 3rd.

• Very good army split but so far from his bases, and your 3rd denied, that's not going to help you.

• Now you have understood you lost so you make a desperate move.

• Back at your base, you're caught out of siege mode but you cannot do anything else now.

• And ProAnnn finish you with Broodlords.

Strong points

• Very good macro. But as you're not attacking that's quite pointless. That's not Simcity, you have to attack WHILE you macro. The difficulty is multitasking.
• Very good army placement when you had the time.

What could be improved

• Harass the . You must pressure him in the begining to disturb his macro and preventing him to drone excessively. There is no other thing that could be said on this game since his macro was so flooding you, you could do nothing to win this game after 13 minutes.

Quick Comments

ToRPandarine:

[ToRPandarine]

Originally Posted by Nemo

Gameplay analysis

Ok then, one replay for analysis from now own. (Statistics taught me that having a few data points to analyze is better than one but meh )

This game in my head was like "Ok, timing of scout was this and this, FE, Mech army".

The important thing I kinda had at the back of my head at all times was that, "harass the or your dead"

I didn't know there was timing to it too :| I have no clue why I did not do a standard mech opening (BF Hellion go go!) and why I did little to zero harassment.

Other than that, i would say my macro in my games has been subpar and is really horrendous. In fact, I feel my macro still needs a lot of work

the whole army placement thing is now kinda second nature to me when i have tanks on the field cause there's no point having them all bunched up only to have them fire on each other or some other friendly unit. well, marines too when i decide to go Bio against .

I hope the replay of me vs TradeZero will show the problem is something else. I have a strange feeling it's got to do with map awareness and engagements.

Thanks again to Nemo for being a total boss and analyzing this game and the next one

GLHF

[Nemo]

Originally Posted by ThePandarine

Ok then, one replay for analysis from now own. (Statistics taught me that having a few data points to analyze is better than one but meh )

This game in my head was like "Ok, timing of scout was this and this, FE, Mech army".

The important thing I kinda had at the back of my head at all times was that, "harass the or your dead"

You were so right ! lol

Other than that, i would say my macro in my games has been subpar and is really horrendous. In fact, I feel my macro still needs a lot of work

No, it's OK, you need multi-task now.

the whole army placement thing is now kinda second nature to me when i have tanks on the field cause there's no point having them all bunched up only to have them fire on each other or some other friendly unit. well, marines too when i decide to go Bio against .

That was great, but again it's harder to do it in the heat of battele. Be more aggressive.

Originally Posted by ThePandarine

I hope the replay of me vs TradeZero will show the problem is something else. I have a strange feeling it's got to do with map awareness and engagements.

Thanks again to Nemo for being a total boss and analyzing this game and the next one

GLHF

Tomorrow, there's HowAreYa to do before.

[Nemo]

Originally Posted by HowAreYa

Heres my replay:

http://www.sc2rep.com/replays/%28T%2...HowAreYa/15219

Obviously I know a few things I did wrong like not bringing my overseer in both engagements. But yeah I named the replay WTF cos yeah, WTF?? I think I shouldve just made ling bane and busted his ass after he got such a late 2nd.

HowAreYa vs Neurobacter

League :
Map : Shattered temple
Length : 26:49
Version 1.4.1

Replay Analysis

• 3:05 : You scout perfectly 2 quick gaz from the ,

• 5:04 : You decide to take 4 gas to go quick Muta. That's not a bad idea to counter banshee.

• 5:13: You now scout a starport. You know now for certain that it will be banshees and probably with cloack.

• You ract accordingly making 2 more queens. But first mistake as soon as they have spawn, you MUST spam creep. Vs that's absolutely key.

• 9:45 : he was a bit sloppy with his banshees so you have time to make those mutas and chase them. From that moment you should have won the game.

• 12:06 : You have all those mutas and you still did not harass the . That's a big mistake that lower your advantage. Mutas are for harass between 10 and 15, nothing else and certainly not destroy rocks !

• Look all those juicy targets you could have harassed:

Depots, structure, SCV


Undefended SCV, there is no marines there, no turrets


Barracks, Banshees and Ravens undefended

• 13:53 : You decide to begin the Harass. Now there is defense.

• 14:07 : You must know that Air > Air, 10 mutas kills 10 Vikings. There you could have killed those vikings and then the Banshees and Ravens. Were you afraid of missiles ? They had not but you couldn't know of course.

• 16:35: Same here, 8 Mutas vs 9 Viking : Go trade ! Especially since they are killing your 3rd. Now you've got a situation, but you could still win by making ton of corruptors, glings and if you have the gas infestors

• 17:30 : Now the decisive mistake, you put all your army, mutas and above all your overseers in a single group. Never do that, put your air in another group and detectors in another and make them follow your army so the don't get killed during the battle. You even put the Ovies in the group. You now wish you had more creep for your Hydras.

• Now your hydras are killed by the invisible banshees since the overseers are dead or away. That's not Hydras that are not good, it's the lack of detection at that moment that cost you the game. hydras were the good choice vs Air

• Now you have lost as you see in army pop.

• 20:57 : Your last chance with infestors.

• Excellent Fungal Growth, but there is a Battle crusers and you don't have parasite or corruptor to deal with it.

Strong points

• Excellent initial scout
• Good reaction to what you see : Mutas, Hydras, detection

What could be improved

• Harass as soon as you can with the muta
• Spread creep with your idle queens. Include that in your production cycle especially in the beginning of the game when you're in the "reactive time"
• Make corruptors to counter Air . Don't be afraid of Vikings. They are more expansive than your mutas (150/75) and weaker in same army size.
• One group for ground forces, one for Air forces, one for detection, one for infestors.

[FaDeBadger]

Nemo such a champ. Epic analysis as usual.

[Nemo]

Originally Posted by FaDeBadger

Nemo such a champ. Epic analysis as usual.

Thanks !

[FSDarkNemesis]

Heya, I was doing my placement matches in the North American Server and I recorded 3 losses out of 5 (including one loss which turned to a win). Well, being a struggling player, I dunno what my mistakes are as well as what could I have done to turn the losses around.

So here are the following files:

http://www.sc2sea.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=564 (Match 5)

http://www.sc2sea.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=565 (Match 4)

http://www.sc2sea.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=566 (Match 3) - Take a look at that one first, cause I dunno pretty much the hard counters against a Macro crazy toss (Stalker/Immortal Mass)

Some help appreciated. Thanks.

[sRFullstop]

I need some help with this game:

http://www.sc2sea.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=568

It is a ZvZ on Shattered Temple. My opponent opens with 13 gas 13 pool for a quick Speedling build. I do my normal 14g/14p, and I make a lot of lings as well, with a healthy economy on 1 base early game. My opponent gets his expansion up while pressuring me with pure speedlings, and I cannot utilize my natural hatch because I can't make drones due to his constant aggression. In the end my Banelings lose to his overwhelming lings.

NOTE: I was expecting banelings because of the extremely early gas pool :/

[HowAreYa]

Thanks Nemo. Everything make sense. Been trying to work on hotkeys and general macro cycle.

I was initially saving energy for tranfuses vs the banshees. But I had muta's coming so creep wouldve been a good option.

The only reason I didnt jump in with my muta's was because I saw a bunch of marines. But thinking about it now they wouldn't have had stim. Then I saw the armory and assumed Thors, turns out he went straight for battlecrusiers. I just always get the feeling that muta's are so fragile so I never wanna engage with them directly. But now I realise I couldve engaged alot earlier.

[eCKo`Tazerenix]

Hi guys

This is a game from the KR server (im dia there), a PvZ on shakuras, I'm just looking for some pointers on what I could have done better.
http://drop.sc/54378

Some things i've noticed are my early game FFE was off so my blink timing was fairly delayed, meaning I couldn't snipe the third (although I did get an expo up) and I should have walled off my 4th a lot early to prevent those ling snipes.

Anything else you guys can say that I could improve on?

Thanks.

[Nemo]

Originally Posted by HowAreYa

Thanks Nemo. Everything make sense. Been trying to work on hotkeys and general macro cycle.

You're welcome

I was initially saving energy for tranfuses vs the banshees. But I had muta's coming so creep wouldve been a good option.

Ah, OK I understand. Throw down at least 2 of them, that's quite cheap and they have their own live after that.

The only reason I didnt jump in with my muta's was because I saw a bunch of marines. But thinking about it now they wouldn't have had stim. Then I saw the armory and assumed Thors, turns out he went straight for battlecrusiers.

Harassing has that other advantage of huge scouting. Then you don't have to assume but you know. Try to be as active as you can with your units, even just scouting the map, poking etc. It has many advantages:

• Scout
• Take random opportunities you discover when poking or patroling
• Learn to multi-task. You will need that anyway when getting higher level.

I just always get the feeling that muta's are so fragile so I never wanna engage with them directly. But now I realise I couldve engaged alot earlier.

They are, that's why they're so demanding in multi-task. But you must learn to do it because they are the unit you can't be idle with if you want them to be efficient.