[duanloves]

Assuming that you scouted that the zerg is going infestors, start to harass the mineral line with your unit of choice. I would go warp prisms and warp in zealots or dts and try to do as much damage as possible. During that tech to HT and research storm.
That would force the zerg to be turtle and remake economy or to push out. Make sure you have an obs to see army movement.
In the big engagements seperate your HT from your main army and try using the range advantage to feedback infestors. It would generally kill the infestors straight.
If the zerg has a really high infestor count it would be more cost effective and quicker to storm infestors as they clump up then to feedback by one unless you are have insane feedback micro.
Go watch vods of dreamhack HuK vs Moon and how he handles ling infestor ultras

[Digby]

lol, the way i deal with alot of festors is just to mix in some dts, like to the side so they dont get fungalled, then I jst snipe em with dts, the higher energy ones preferably, or ffs.

[porkchop]

i dont know if this works for u but , ever since ive watched MC's air play , i go , immortal/void/lots , with legs.. i believe that a maxed out army , 5 voids and around 8 immortals, and lots, regardless if its wide open or choke , is very winnable, just use the voids to target down the infestors, and be weary of hydras, but they normally dont have much hydras , if they go infestors, then you could transtion to stalkers and colosi , or acron zealots.

ive been winning using MC's build , its fun to , you get map control .,

[ProAnnn]

Originally Posted by porkchop

i dont know if this works for u but , ever since ive watched MC's air play , i go , immortal/void/lots , with legs.. i believe that a maxed out army , 5 voids and around 8 immortals, and lots, regardless if its wide open or choke , is very winnable, just use the voids to target down the infestors, and be weary of hydras, but they normally dont have much hydras , if they go infestors, then you could transtion to stalkers and colosi , or acron zealots.

ive been winning using MC's build , its fun to , you get map control .,

Infestor hydras will pwn this build. MC is good because he reacts to what his opponent and dont go for 1 unit composition.

[Nemo]

PvZ is not really my realm, but I think a lot of HT with storm in your mix would do the trick. I've just watched Destiny getting destroyed on a very long game on Teld'arim by a Toss Army with sick number of storm. A zerg army can't deal with 5 or 6 consecutive storms, infestors or not. That was very impressive. But the real Battle was on macro. The Korean Master could (ChessPlayer http://www.sc2ranks.com/kr/2546331/ChessPlayer if I remember correctly) afford that much HT because he had half the map and Destiny was on the back foot the whole game. He had a lot of stalkers too in his mix.

Destiny's style is infestor heavy. You never see him make a single muta.

[Next_rim]

A zerg army can't deal with 5 or 6 consecutive storms

Burrowed roaches regen almost as fast as storm damages them. That's the reason I never play HT in PvZ. If zerg see HT, they just switch to roaches, and HT storm becomes useless.

[iM tgun]

Originally Posted by Next_rim

Burrowed roaches regen almost as fast as storm damages them. That's the reason I never play HT in PvZ. If zerg see HT, they just switch to roaches, and HT storm becomes useless.

I don't know, forcing a whole asrmy to be burrowed and useless sounds like a useful ability.

[Next_rim]

They don't just sit there, they move away underground while not taking damage, and HT energy is wasted. And if you overextend while chasing, you get fungaled from behind the roach line. If you build HT - better build them vs infestors and feedback em' infestors. Or storm efficiently on hydra or muta. If zerg wants to tank storms, can easily add burrowed roaches to the army. I bet they would be already available, zerg always build that emergency roach warren in the beginning.

[PiG]

Originally Posted by Next_rim

They don't just sit there, they move away underground while not taking damage, and HT energy is wasted. And if you overextend while chasing, you get fungaled from behind the roach line. If you build HT - better build them vs infestors and feedback em' infestors. Or storm efficiently on hydra or muta. If zerg wants to tank storms, can easily add burrowed roaches to the army. I bet they would be already available, zerg always build that emergency roach warren in the beginning.

Storm is very good against roaches, even with burrow movement forcing units to burrow during combat is ridiculously good. Not to mention they only heal at half the rate of the storm dps.

You're making the mistake of taking an experience where a vastly superior army beat you because you didn't have enough units and using it as evidence that Storm is bad against roaches. In fact it's friggin beastly against roaches. You just can't rely on a lone ability to win you a battle.

What you may be trying to say is that you can't use only a small gateway based army and rely on just a few HT to win you battles. You need heavy blinkstalker, immortal or collossus support, or ALOT of storm. But preferably you need to force the roaches into a corner or stop them from being able to run.

[x5.Revenant]

Originally Posted by KayJ

It doens't take micro to kill infestors with HTs, it takes luck or a lack of skill from the zerg player. As I said above HTs move at half the speed and have less range than fungal... Once a fungal hits any unit it is forced into a stop command hence feedback has to be reissued if the templar got fungal'd which is unnecessary apm because the infestors won't be on high energy anymore after fungalling.

Sidenote:
Feedbacks are 9 range, whilst FG is 7(Despite liquipedia stating both FG and NP are 9, test it out and you'll see.) (:

Back to topic, normally you wouldnt want to blink all your stalkers in, to pick off infestors. An optimal of around 5 stalkers would be sufficient to blink in and pick off at least 1-2 infestors before dying.

[AxSGRiM]

I watched HuK do this and what he does is just target fire the infestors with the collosus, and then use HT later game. When he goes Broodlords just get some voidrays added to the mix and archons if he goes for more ultras.

[Bielsko]

Originally Posted by Revenant

Sidenote:
Feedbacks are 9 range, whilst FG is 7(Despite liquipedia stating both FG and NP are 9, test it out and you'll see.) (:

I tested it myself, Feedback has 9 range but Fungal growth has 9 range and +2 because it is AOE so it has 11 range. You should test it out, easiest way is to order a feedback on the infestor then use fungal growth when HT is in the AOE just outside the max range of fungal, then you will see how broken the infestor vs ht match up is....

[x5.Revenant]

Originally Posted by KayJ

I tested it myself, Feedback has 9 range but Fungal growth has 9 range and +2 because it is AOE so it has 11 range. You should test it out, easiest way is to order a feedback on the infestor then use fungal growth when HT is in the AOE just outside the max range of fungal, then you will see how broken the infestor vs ht match up is....

I'm pretty sure FG's initial cast range is 7, as fungal growth never comes out before a HT's feedback lands. :] But hey, I may be wrong. Just speaking from experience. ^^

[Bielsko]

You Tube

You Tube

I did the test for you

Quick Comments

	Nemo:	That's impressive work ! Thanks greatly for the good job.
	Maynarde:	Nicely done man :)

[PiG]

Originally Posted by KayJ

I tested it myself, Feedback has 9 range but Fungal growth has 9 range and +2 because it is AOE so it has 11 range. You should test it out, easiest way is to order a feedback on the infestor then use fungal growth when HT is in the AOE just outside the max range of fungal, then you will see how broken the infestor vs ht match up is....

Broken? Feedback costs only 50 energy and will usually kill the infestors outright. On the other hand it takes 3 fungal growths (225 energy) to kill a HT. Also the zerg have fewer ranged units as they don't have blinkstalkers or collossus, they have to wait for broods to actually outrange the HT's whereas infestors are very snipeable.

That being said I'm not saying that its favoured one way or the other but it certainly isn't broken. Infestors are a great unit but so are HT. If you spread out your HT's and they have to cast fungals just to keep the lone HT out of range then you're already getting your moneys worth just by wasting the infestors energy. It is a micro battle usually where the HT charge straight into battle all spread out and the infestors run away fungalling trying to stop them getting in range.

The zerg units have to be manually told to focus down the low-threat HT's before the infestors can join the battle. If the zerg doesn't do this he loses all his infestors in the blink of an eye.

In my experience the best shot the zerg has is neural parasiting high energy HT's and feedbacking all the other HT's.

Generally speaking just a few HT's in an army can largely negate the effect of a large number of infestors. It is definitely not "broken" in the favour of infestors.

[ke_ivan]

Not my area either, but HuK said Phoenix openings are good for everything. Kinda forces hydras and queens - and then go templar/stalker/sentry/colossus! Okay nvm, don't listen to me.

[Bielsko]

100 energy to kill a HT sounds good to me, 1 infested terran then fungal. Seeing as the zerg psionic storm upgrade gives you extra energy instead. If you think about it you don't even need to fungal just use enough infested terran to get below 80hp.

The only reason infestors have the stun ability is because zerg has low ranged units. Just spread your attacking units, like you suggested to the slow moving HTs.

I don't think you can say the HT vs Infestor match-up is not broken with a straight face. EVERY statistic is better, it all comes down to lack of skill from the zerg player for HTs to do anything to infestors. Greater range, much faster speed, moving burrow, detection, no friendly-fire, ability to control units that cost 3x as much as the infestor, and even greater damage in most cases vs armoured. (As storm is easily dodged by speed roaches which will end up doing about 40 damage.)

In the sc2 help menu, it says that HTs are the counter to infestors but that just is not true.

[mGGDaedalus]

KayJ HT are great against infestors, I don't know what you're talking about. If you leave all of your HT in a clump and they all get hit by the same fungal that's really an error on your part. Feedback doesn't even need to be targeted, you can just click the minimap and it will auto target the nearest infestor. It's just a matter of good positioning. As for colossus based armies, they are not the best choice against infestor ling styles of zerg armies because of NP, take xeen's advice.

[PiG]

Originally Posted by KayJ

100 energy to kill a HT sounds good to me, 1 infested terran then fungal. Seeing as the zerg psionic storm upgrade gives you extra energy instead. If you think about it you don't even need to fungal just use enough infested terran to get below 80hp.

The only reason infestors have the stun ability is because zerg has low ranged units. Just spread your attacking units, like you suggested to the slow moving HTs.

I don't think you can say the HT vs Infestor match-up is not broken with a straight face. EVERY statistic is better, it all comes down to lack of skill from the zerg player for HTs to do anything to infestors. Greater range, much faster speed, moving burrow, detection, no friendly-fire, ability to control units that cost 3x as much as the infestor, and even greater damage in most cases vs armoured. (As storm is easily dodged by speed roaches which will end up doing about 40 damage.)

In the sc2 help menu, it says that HTs are the counter to infestors but that just is not true.

I'm starting to question whether you're trolling...

1) Infested terrans can't be used to snipe HT, that is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

2)
"Seeing as the zerg psionic storm upgrade gives you extra energy instead. If you think about it you don't even need to fungal just use enough infested terran to get below 80hp."

This point made no sense. Please clarify what you mean.

3) "The only reason infestors have the stun ability is because zerg has low ranged units. Just spread your attacking units, like you suggested to the slow moving HTs."

How is this supposed to stop feedback? It's a targetable spell not area of effect.

4) "EVERY statistic is better" Except for the fact that as I mentioned in my previous posts feedback destroys infestors.

I agree Infestors get "moving burrow, detection(I assume you mean by fungal), no friendly-fire, ability to control units that cost 3x as much as the infestor". Nonetheless feedback instantly destroys infestors so they are easily zoned out of battles by HT/collossus.

5) Storm does more DPS then fungal so whilst a lone storm in a battle can be dodged the damage potential of storm is still much greater.

Overall you are clearly have some anger from losing to infestors but if you want to persist in trying to theorycraft that HT suck and infestors rule then I'd really love to atleast know what league you are in.

[Next_rim]

PiG,

Do you have any good replays vs HT?

Not that I care, my style in PvZ is far from HT. Far from ground, actually, as I play mommaships and heavy air, and never have problems with infestors. But methinks real replays is what we need.