[Nemo]

Originally Posted by mGGDrGooSe

http://www.sc2sea.com/replays.php?do=viewreplay&id=1355

Gold ZvP on condemned ridge. Completely typical opener, no fancy stuff happening. Obviuosly some minor macro slip ups with missed injects, but i still have 48 drones at 8 mins, so I don't think they are anything we can call game breaking (I am usually smoother than this, but the end result is always the same anyway). So at the first proper engage, I only have around 150ish supply, which is less than the desired 200 'stephano' style. But I loathe the 12 min max. i hate mass roach with a passion. Anyway, point being, there are obvious mechanical and macro things that could be fixed, such as producing during an engagement instead of after it, etc. But for all money the game looks completely even until he swats my 2-0 (vs 1-1) army aside and just a-moves to victory.

Replay Analysis vs
http://fr.twitch.tv/nemoulysses/b/321644937#

Summary

• When you see a bad wall or a window of attack, switch to attack mode asap until you have done damage or won if you canend the game. That's the strength of Stephano. Being ahead because he don't allow opponent to be greedy or be unsafe.
• Engagements were dreadfull. That's your main weakness for now. Engage with both lings and roach in the same time. Never attack in chokes. Best way to engage is spine in front with roaches and lings attacking by behind. You already have 2 groups for your army use them.
• Creep was inexistant so your 5 spines were useless. You could have easily put them in a position where they would have defended the entrance to both your Nat and 3rd.

Quick Comments

mGGAequitas:

http://www.sc2sea.com/images/misc/postnotes_pos.gif

[Andross]

Hey guys I really need help with my ZvP matchup, I keep losing and it's just getting ridiculous now I'm really starting to think protoss are OP and there's no point playing zerg. I denied his third for ages and had 50 more drones than him and HE STILL WINS. Any advice would be very appreciated, thanks.

[xGKingdelete]

Originally Posted by Andross

Hey guys I really need help with my ZvP matchup, I keep losing and it's just getting ridiculous now I'm really starting to think protoss are OP and there's no point playing zerg. I denied his third for ages and had 50 more drones than him and HE STILL WINS. Any advice would be very appreciated, thanks.

Firstly, you never had 50 more drones than him. In fact, in the entire early/midgame, you were pretty much even on worker count, which means protoss is ahead.

In a normal game, a protoss would want to get a third base by 15 minutes, or risk having oversaturation for a while after the main base mines out. However, your opponent didn't make enough workers either. This blunder of his meant that he didn't even need the third base that quickly, because he wasn't mining out his first two bases faster enough.


Believe it or not, your opponent was winning for most of this game. Even though you were in pretty good shape after you killed his entire army, you lost your third, didn't have as many drones as you wanted and didn't have any answer to the colossus tech that he was making at home.


Tips.
Against a timing push, you want to wait for the last moment possible before you run in and attack his army. Your army is growing faster than his, and it's at your base, so you will be reinforcing much faster than him. Also, you have spines.
Everytime you threw your army into his prematurely, he came out ahead. You threw a series of small armies at him, instead of waiting and hurling one giant army at him.

+ Show +

Setting up a flank is important, because forcefields become effectively useless. Notice how every time you attacked, you only attacked from one angle and got forcefielded, and lost all of your zerglings? This is how to stop that. Just wait for him to push in within range of spines, then send everything in from both sides. You can't lose.

You needed a similar thing against his second deathball at 22 mins. Try to get a concave, don't get forcefielded.

What should have happened in this game, was that you absolutely crushed his army, kept your third base and most of your units alive, droned up to 80, and then won.


Here is another important thing to consider. When to take gas? How much to mine? 6:00 is a good time to take gas, so leave that. But you took too many geysers. 4 is too many. Roach ling is very mineral heavy, and you also need minerals to make drones. You need minerals to beat these attacks. Rewatch the replay, while looking at the gas count. Now imagine if all of that gas was minerals, do the maths, and figure out how many zerglings you didn't have because you mined gas instead.


And lastly, but most importantly, focus on your injects, focus on making drones quicker. You've probably heard that a lot, but that's because it's important. As zerg, macroing better is the easiest way to improve.

Quick Comments

mGGAequitas:

http://www.sc2sea.com/images/misc/postnotes_pos.gif

[Andross]

Originally Posted by SQL.delete

Firstly, you never had 50 more drones than him. In fact, in the entire early/midgame, you were pretty much even on worker count, which means protoss is ahead.

In a normal game, a protoss would want to get a third base by 15 minutes, or risk having oversaturation for a while after the main base mines out. However, your opponent didn't make enough workers either. This blunder of his meant that he didn't even need the third base that quickly, because he wasn't mining out his first two bases faster enough.


Believe it or not, your opponent was winning for most of this game. Even though you were in pretty good shape after you killed his entire army, you lost your third, didn't have as many drones as you wanted and didn't have any answer to the colossus tech that he was making at home.


Tips.
Against a timing push, you want to wait for the last moment possible before you run in and attack his army. Your army is growing faster than his, and it's at your base, so you will be reinforcing much faster than him. Also, you have spines.
Everytime you threw your army into his prematurely, he came out ahead. You threw a series of small armies at him, instead of waiting and hurling one giant army at him.

+ Show +

Setting up a flank is important, because forcefields become effectively useless. Notice how every time you attacked, you only attacked from one angle and got forcefielded, and lost all of your zerglings? This is how to stop that. Just wait for him to push in within range of spines, then send everything in from both sides. You can't lose.

You needed a similar thing against his second deathball at 22 mins. Try to get a concave, don't get forcefielded.

What should have happened in this game, was that you absolutely crushed his army, kept your third base and most of your units alive, droned up to 80, and then won.


Here is another important thing to consider. When to take gas? How much to mine? 6:00 is a good time to take gas, so leave that. But you took too many geysers. 4 is too many. Roach ling is very mineral heavy, and you also need minerals to make drones. You need minerals to beat these attacks. Rewatch the replay, while looking at the gas count. Now imagine if all of that gas was minerals, do the maths, and figure out how many zerglings you didn't have because you mined gas instead.


And lastly, but most importantly, focus on your injects, focus on making drones quicker. You've probably heard that a lot, but that's because it's important. As zerg, macroing better is the easiest way to improve.

Thanks a lot man that's exactly what I needed, I'll implement the tips you gave me .

Quick Comments

xGKingdelete:

glgl, remember it's never imba, just get better

[mGGDrGooSe]

Cheers Nemo for your thoughts. Basically I think it's coming down to having enough apm to stay on top of macro and actually maintaining map awareness, army awareness and everything else. Need to increase my multitasking somehow. Oh, and the 'g' instead of 'gg' at the end was entirely accidental.

[Nemo]

Originally Posted by mGGDrGooSe

Cheers Nemo for your thoughts. Basically I think it's coming down to having enough apm to stay on top of macro and actually maintaining map awareness, army awareness and everything else. Need to increase my multitasking somehow. Oh, and the 'g' instead of 'gg' at the end was entirely accidental.

You're welcome. Yeah, mechanism is the first difference maker (unfortunately ^^). Creeping a bit and engaging from both sides is the most important thing for you atm, even if it means sacrificing a bit of eco management.

[mGGAequitas]

http://drop.sc/201584

This terran does a 1-1-1 to me with thors banshee and marines. Despite scouting it, having the econ lead for a while and doing some damage to him early on, i pretty much get 1a'd.

During the game I thought I could stop it by just pumping out as many units as possible off 2 base. but that didnt work out so great in that game.
In hindsight; I am thinking that maybe i could have gone for high templar, since feedback, storms and archons would all be really good against that composition. But after the robo would I have enough time to get out a bunch of templar and would my army be too small?

or should I have gone for what I tried but with a lot more cannons? (like 5-10)

[xGKingdelete]

Originally Posted by Aequitas

http://drop.sc/201584

This terran does a 1-1-1 to me with thors banshee and marines. Despite scouting it, having the econ lead for a while and doing some damage to him early on, i pretty much get 1a'd.

During the game I thought I could stop it by just pumping out as many units as possible off 2 base. but that didnt work out so great in that game.
In hindsight; I am thinking that maybe i could have gone for high templar, since feedback, storms and archons would all be really good against that composition. But after the robo would I have enough time to get out a bunch of templar and would my army be too small?

or should I have gone for what I tried but with a lot more cannons? (like 5-10)

while your attacks did damage, I don't think they did enough. You were dedicating too much, it would have been good if you were chronoboosting probes behind it, while trading efficiently. You had lost 1.25k more resources than him when he moved out to your base.

If they pull scvs, pull all your probes, no matter what. That would have made a huge difference. Set up a better concave on the whole ramp, watch the stalkers at the back who werent attacking.

And don't take a third gas against 1-1-1 styles unless you think you can get colossus or something like that out in time.


ht won't work against 1-1-1 variations that hit faster, but maybe it would for this one.

Quick Comments

mGGAequitas:

thx :)

[ToRdizz]

Silver PvT on daybreak.

I play defensive at the start because I had played this guy before and knew there would be early pressure. I haven't been playing protoss that long and I'm having a heap of trouble knowing when to expand.

http://drop.sc/202314

[xGKingdelete]

Originally Posted by dizz

Silver PvT on daybreak.

I play defensive at the start because I had played this guy before and knew there would be early pressure. I haven't been playing protoss that long and I'm having a heap of trouble knowing when to expand.

http://drop.sc/202314

a lot of times you can expand off one gateway, but only after scouting, and processing scouting information vs terran is very complicated, so don't worry about that.

For now, expand after your first warp in of units. That should be enough to hold against any early pressure that isn't all-in with scvs. With your first zealot and stalker, you can take control of the watchtowers, or even poke up his ramp to see what's going on if you want. The map is yours in the beginning. Having the watchtowers helps a lot, it's much easier to prepare for an attack if you see it coming 30 seconds away.


Try to start your third base around 12-13 mins, so you have somewhere to transfer to when your main mines out. If you see that you have colossus and he has no vikings, that's also safe to expand with.


Spend your money better. Try not to float too much, add a few gateways if you can't spend it all. Make sure you get templar tech, it's just really really good. Even if you find ht too difficult to use, you can make archons as well. You want to have as many gas units in your army as possible (high templar, archons, colossus) if you want to beat a terran army.

Just focus on spending your money, most important thing for now.

Quick Comments

Nemo:

Nice !

[ToRdizz]

Thanks man. I tend to stop building probes after 2 bases in most of my matches because I'm too tentative to take a 3rd. I want to use HTs cos they look so cool but don't have much practice with them. I guess just jumping in would be best! Thanks a lot.

Quick Comments

xGKingdelete:

ht are pretty imba, get them and you'll find that you start to win a lot more

[Andross]

Hey guys I have been having a lot of trouble vs protoss since I switched to terran, according to me I macroed reasonably well but I still lost and don't no why, I also done reasonable damage with medi-drops, I just can't seem to win.

[mGGAequitas]

Originally Posted by Andross

Hey guys I have been having a lot of trouble vs protoss since I switched to terran, according to me I macroed reasonably well but I still lost and don't no why, I also done reasonable damage with medi-drops, I just can't seem to win.

your 2 medivac drops did an INSANE amount of damage completely ruining his econ so the only thing he could do at that point would be to attack.
your army despite being behind in upgrades (2-2 to 1-1), should have easily been able to destroy his attack. Your two biggest mistakes were; not stimming and engaging on the ramp. Make sure when there is a major engagement you stim asap. and vs protoss you really want as large a concave as possible, you want to fight in open areas instead of in chokes like that ramp, to nullify the effectiveness of the forcefields.
If you had spread out your army in a large concave then stimmed and attack moved you would have won imo.

[sneak]

Hi I tried banshee opener agains a protoss. and I always get rolled when i do it. Could someone check my production and give me some feedback please.

[TCPLemminks]

Need a replay analysed?
There's a thread for that.

Quick Comments

syfChadMann:

..|..

[xGKingdelete]

Originally Posted by sneak

Hi I tried banshee opener agains a protoss. and I always get rolled when i do it. Could someone check my production and give me some feedback please.

Whenever you do a 1-1-1 opening, you are vulnerable against a 4gate. If you don't know what a 1-1-1 or a 4gate is, I suggest you research them as they are common builds which you should know the terminology for.

To beat a 4gate, you need 3 things:
1. Bunker(s)
2. Wall.
3. SCVs


There are a lot of things to know about executing a 1-1-1, but for now focus on not dying before banshee control.

I suggest looking at how the best terrans do it, if you can find any recent 1-1-1 replays on youtube or a terran stream.

Quick Comments

Nemo:

Nice and short :)

[mGGmetaStatic]

your first mistake was not vetoing Tal'Darim

you need to be more active with your scouting, that pylon outside your base is so common it should spawn there. check for it every game.

When your scv got to his base he had gas which you didn't see and he was saving chronoboost. sometimes they're just bad but more often than not they will be dumping it all into warpgate.

also he wasn't making a zealot so you could delay a bunker, but you do need a bunker when doing a 111 regardless because 1 Zealot can ruin your day

also check out happy's 1-1-1, it's the whole reason I choose terran

You Tube

You Tube

Quick Comments

Nemo:

Nice advice but it's preferable not to veto.

[Maynarde]

Just merged sneak's thread with this one.

[Trinion]

Hi everyone
I'd like some advice/tips/criticisms on my play.
Here is a game I just played on the Korean/Taiwanese server, diamond PvT (Decided to practice on KR to improve!) : http://drop.sc/214231

Watching the replay myself, I can clearly see my engagements were poor and basically trading extremely inefficiently. I have not come across this style of play before and during the game I couldn't really figure out a way around it so I just chucked units at him Would immortals have worked better?

I am sure there are tons of other mistakes and things I can improve on, reactions, army placements, hotkey efficiencies etc, and if someone (anyone ) could point me in the right direction I'd be very grateful

And if anyone regularly plays on KR/TW who can play practice games with me, please let me know!

Thanks in advance!

[xGKingdelete]

Originally Posted by Trinion

Hi everyone
I'd like some advice/tips/criticisms on my play.
Here is a game I just played on the Korean/Taiwanese server, diamond PvT (Decided to practice on KR to improve!) : http://drop.sc/214231

Watching the replay myself, I can clearly see my engagements were poor and basically trading extremely inefficiently. I have not come across this style of play before and during the game I couldn't really figure out a way around it so I just chucked units at him Would immortals have worked better?

I am sure there are tons of other mistakes and things I can improve on, reactions, army placements, hotkey efficiencies etc, and if someone (anyone ) could point me in the right direction I'd be very grateful

And if anyone regularly plays on KR/TW who can play practice games with me, please let me know!

Thanks in advance!

When you scout something different to what you are used to, you have to try and think "what is my opponent trying to do, what is he gaining from being a hipster, what is he losing?"

In this case, rushing for tanks and taking a super fast third CC. He was completely sacrificing map control and the ability to attack in exchange for economy. As soon as you saw his third CC and only one barracks, you should have taken your third.

You did take it fast, so that's good, but you could have taken it faster.


Against these mech plays, once he takes a third base, get a warp prism and throw some zealots in his main base. Even though he'll probably take out the warp prism and all of the zealots after a minute or two (vikings), you should be able to do a little bit of damage anyway. If you can kill an armory that's huge. If you get a couple of SCVS and some addons, that's fine as well.

Also against these mech plays, you pretty much want to have as few zealot stalker sentry as possible. They just won't do very well against tanks. You want to have units like archons, immortals, colossus, 3-4 HT, but not void rays or carriers since he is making vikings. If he isn't making vikings, you can have an air transition, but most of the time he will. Void rays would do well vs the planetary walls, though.

The thing to notice about that composition is that it's all gas. You'll have like 2k minerals and 0 gas. That's why it's fine to throw away the minerals as zealots and warp prisms. With these extra minerals you can also expand. It doesn't matter if you don't have enough probes to mine from them, just put the nexus down anyway, and some cannons in case of hellion harass. It's 20 mins in this replay atm, and he has attacked you a total of 0 times.

Against tanks, you have to attack where the tanks aren't. Otherwise, as you noticed, you won't be trading efficiently. It's not easy, of course, since he has planetaries and walls of missile turrets, but there are always places where you can break through. In this game, you could have had a warp prism fly around his 4th and warp in zealots at his third, (and his natural and main, since he had no missile turrets at the back of his base). Imagine if you had 10 zealots in his main. He has like one tank to defend, the rest of his army is camping at his 4th. How is he going to deal with it? He has to run all of his hellions back, and suddenly his tanks don't have a buffer anymore.


In summary:
-warp prisms (with speed upgrade)
-stop making zealots and stalkers with your main army
-try not to attack into planetaries

Quick Comments

	TAEdgE:	You're awesome for doing these posts
	Trinion:	Thank you sir! Very informative :D Re-reading now :)