[iM tgun]

My thoughts:

You Tube

You Tube

Please feel free to tell me if you think I'm right/wrong and why.

Quick Comments

	nirvAnA:	you are a true hero, everyone needs to watch this video with an open mind
	Nemo:	Fantastic job this evening
	AxSGRiM:
	Dumbledore:	Gj
	Champi:	spending too much time on NA, ur accent is changing mate :P
	Criven:	Such a boss.
	Fenner:	i like the way you think
	RicocheT:
	mGGDaedalus:	nice work, valid points
	DM.MCZ.Polaris:
	Sedz:	He's not the hero we deserve, but the hero we need

[Fenneth]

Originally Posted by tgun

My thoughts:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZdBFc0i17o

Please feel free to tell me if you think I'm right/wrong and why.

I'm glad someone did this. It's so easy to get a warped view of things when you are only getting one side of the argument, so for someone to step up and provide a bit of balance is much needed. Defense lawyers exist for a good reason =)

Certainly there are some strange decisions and coincidences, and I think there's a good chance he really was cheating, but I don't see the iron-clad incontrovertible evidence you should have before you utterly trash someone's reputation.

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Flaunt:

oCe-Fenneth, king of West and slayer of BADdies.

[UHF]

Originally Posted by tgun

My thoughts:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZdBFc0i17o

Please feel free to tell me if you think I'm right/wrong and why.

I stayed up to 1am last night going over things and comparing patterns of play, rereading accusations, and frankly I'm not convinced he is cheating.

Chobo generally has extensive flight patterns - sometimes they hit, sometimes they don't. The 3 games on Ohana stand out because he nets a LOT of overlord kills - however the pattern was so similar in all 3 games I feel we can chalk this up a lot of practice and knowing where to scout (it's not even that ground breaking - own 3rd, opponents expo/main, flanks of map). Yes there ARE Overlords here, but is it really that surprising? He uses similar, well placed flight paths on other maps that don't net similar kind of results (ie. OL kills).

The pauses in his actions also come up a bit. Sc2Gears parsing shows that nothing happens in these pauses. People have also pointed out that they don't replicate the standard behavior of screen-locking. His in-game APM/EPM also indicates that he is indeed doing nothing.

His scouting/scanning also comes up. People are saying he doesn't scout enough on one hand - but when he does scout with his Vikings, people call him a cheat. He doesn't scout into the main/nat with air units (one would assume to preserve his air unit from dying) but when he DOES scan in to see what's there - people call him a cheat. If you look hard enough through-out the games, you can see him miss his scans (total wiff's).

For many of the game break-downs I can find suitable alternate explanations that don't involve cheating. The biggest thing to note is that his play isn't always orthodox - but there are a lot of patterns you can pick up between games, even between different maps. In my eyes, patterns are indicative of a lot of practice, where-as if you are cheating you are more reactionary and erratic and definitely don't follow patterns.

I know all this doesn't mean he is innocent, but it puts enough doubt in my mind that I can't flat out say he is cheating. There is a lot of - it looks fishy, he didn't do X so he must be cheating, this isn't standard play, that's not what I would do. However I have a feeling you could open up any number of replays and do the same kind of thing.

I think we need something a lot more damning before we end his SC2 career and involvement in this community. I don't expect my opinion to hold much weight (like people keep pointing out, unless you're GM then they don't care), and I have a feeling by posting all this stuff in this thread I've already annoyed a lot of people & burnt bridges - but if he is innocent, then this could be a terrible mistake and we could lose a really really good player.

Quick Comments

	ToRPeek:
	Rage:	Great post.
	crAzerk:	gonna be searching for your posts as they're all good
	nirvAnA:	Don't underestimate how important you have been, and please don't stop
	PiG:

[BAD.BiGbiRd]

Originally Posted by tgun

My thoughts:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZdBFc0i17o

Please feel free to tell me if you think I'm right/wrong and why.

Not sure how many people saw the CatZ/TT1/Illusion thing on Spades but this post relates to it hugely. As a player you develop habits and little mannerism's if you will that are literally impossible to change at will/game by game. I'm staying objective to this because i don't feel like getting abused by people from either side but i want to talk about the viking pathing. Ohana is a very narrow map and you will notice that the paths are almost identical in each game and low and behold there are overlords there. Not so easy to drop when an overlord see's you every time huh?? There are spots on maps where overlords will be, to scout for third timings, gas timings, good positions to sac and scout main for tech etc etc etc. 'ALL' good players know where the overlords will be and will kill them off. Whenever i go voidrays in PvZ and anyone else that goes voidrays tell me you dont get at least 3-4 overlord kills in the exact same spots on whatever the map every time??? Because if you say you don't you're full of shit or terrible. I haven't had a complete chance to go everything else and like i said i'm not saying he is hacking or not yet but as everyone seems to be up in arms about the vikings thought i would go over that first.

[syfChadMann]

Originally Posted by tgun

My thoughts:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZdBFc0i17o

Please feel free to tell me if you think I'm right/wrong and why.

my responses:
@2:30 - you say his viking pathing is legit to hide the third CC.. why would he naturally go for the top above his main first? - when ever other game he has made the same pathing across his third. What you are suggesting is, he instinctively goes to send it up, then changes his mind as he has more to hide at his natural... this would be fine if his instinctive viking pathing was to go up through the main first - but thanks to UHF's pathing images, it isn't.

everything else in your video is interesting and I think does help support the case that CHobo is not a hacker..

My biggest issues are:
CHobo's horrible responses - dodging future discussions and inconsistency in his responses
EG - He says his GF was on his twitch account watching the stream then claims his Gf claims she was behind him watching.. This suggests that his moments of 0 actions might be him looking at a second monitor with the stream on - maybe he isn't a hacker, but does stream cheat - as Asgchobo was in the stream viewers list (stream cheating is just as bad, it's cheating).. and we know he has at least three screens - after his post on his set up, he shows his main monitor then talks about the other two to the side besides his 'sick DJ set up, bro'..

And also, the 6k games in season 2.. there is no doubt that he used a bot farming program in that season - there is NO way someone can play that many games legitimately, even Mafia said it would be a huge task to try and play 50+ games every single day for three months. So we know CHobo has accessed sites that have the hack programs on them - or at the least we know he is capable of abusing the game with out remorse - his explanation for this is also, pretty horrid.

I'm not sure that CHoBo is a hacker.. it's still so uncertain - but a cheat? or someone that has the capacity to cheat - I believe he is.

[Sedz]

Originally Posted by cR.ChadMann

And also, the 6k games in season 2.. there is no doubt that he used a bot farming program in that season - there is NO way someone can play that many games legitimately, even Mafia said it would be a huge task to try and play 50+ games every single day for three months. So we know CHobo has accessed sites that have the hack programs on them - or at the least we know he is capable of abusing the game with out remorse - his explanation for this is also, pretty horrid.

I'm not sure that CHoBo is a hacker.. it's still so uncertain - but a cheat? or someone that has the capacity to cheat - I believe he is.

Once again, this has absolutely NO WEIGHT on anything. Now you are just fishing for desperate excuses, give it up already and apologise to CHobo dude.

Also, I would assume the main stream and any sub-streams of the Masters Cup should be forced to have a delay on them to stop things like stream cheating happening.

Quick Comments

	syfChadMann:	What?.. it proves he has access to sites that have hacks.
	AsGNabi:	We all have access to sites that have hacks..?

[CHoBo(kice)]

Originally Posted by cR.ChadMann

my responses:
@2:30 - you say his viking pathing is legit to hide the third CC.. why would he naturally go for the top above his main first? - when ever other game he has made the same pathing across his third. What you are suggesting is, he instinctively goes to send it up, then changes his mind as he has more to hide at his natural... this would be fine if his instinctive viking pathing was to go up through the main first - but thanks to UHF's pathing images, it isn't.

everything else in your video is interesting and I think does help support the case that CHobo is not a hacker..

My biggest issues are:
CHobo's horrible responses - dodging future discussions and inconsistency in his responses
EG - He says his GF was on his twitch account watching the stream then claims his Gf claims she was behind him watching.. This suggests that his moments of 0 actions might be him looking at a second monitor with the stream on - maybe he isn't a hacker, but does stream cheat - as Asgchobo was in the stream viewers list (stream cheating is just as bad, it's cheating).. and we know he has at least three screens - after his post on his set up, he shows his main monitor then talks about the other two to the side besides his 'sick DJ set up, bro'..

And also, the 6k games in season 2.. there is no doubt that he used a bot farming program in that season - there is NO way someone can play that many games legitimately, even Mafia said it would be a huge task to try and play 50+ games every single day for three months. So we know CHobo has accessed sites that have the hack programs on them - or at the least we know he is capable of abusing the game with out remorse - his explanation for this is also, pretty horrid.

I'm not sure that CHoBo is a hacker.. it's still so uncertain - but a cheat? or someone that has the capacity to cheat - I believe he is.

You must think I would be reaaaaaaaaaaalllyyyyyyyy stupid to while logged into my account watch a stream while playing game. If I was gonna do this trust me mate, I would do it not logged in to my account for starters. That would be a blatant stupidest thing out. From hacker to stream cheat, your running out of ground? figures...

Sorry bud, I have a laptop for my dj set up. Your clearly clueless, by watching me from the screen she meant she could see that I am not hacking and at times when she wanted to see what I was actually doing because there is actually a DELAY on the stream. She was watching my other computer is faced in a opposite direction which is guess what LOGGED INTO MY ACCOUNT because she wanted to hear casting. I will post a photo of the room set-up to show you the complete room. she was fb messaging me the comments like "the caters hatin' on you"

chad. I am sure YOU deep down know I don't need to stream cheat/hack/be a boss or which ever your trying to make calls on atm... to win because I am already skilled enough to take the win. You did have interest in me for this reason did you not? sigh... glad never went down that path I would never be part of that syndicate.

Quick Comments

	inFeZa:	offtopic - DJing is the equivalent to hacking in music, so i've proven you a hacker outside of the game
	iMSystem:	^ How? O.o
	syfChadMann:	Don't bring Carnage into this - it has nothing to do with it, every other team has posted but you single out carnage.
	Champi:	stop taking stabs at carnage ur clearly not using your head when posting atm