[Silver Pharaoh]

Nowadays in every match up, terran would usually go marine tank against me. Are there better compositions than ling baneling mutas against this? Cuz banes and lings die quickly to tanks and mutas can't do anything against marines. Are there some trick to doing it right with muta ling baneling?

[SLCN.Kez]

try to engage from 2 different angles, try to spread creep QUICK as possible as it will delay his push because he'll be clearing creep, also try to engage on creep, have a few lings scouting round for when he pushes when he does backs tab with mutas, and finally i like to engage his ball soon as i see him move out so his tanks arent seiged and can usually trade pretty quickly then take me 3rd/4th/new base, but ive found that roach bling early works pretty well early then get out infestors but they are a lot harder to use ive found but yeh hope this helps.

[Silver Pharaoh]

Hmm...how about roach mutas?

[matthras]

I'm assuming you're referring to the standard first marine/tank push.

It's possible with just Ling/Bling, but you can also use Roaches to soak up some of the initial fire (Roaches have 2 armor, so early game they're really effective against marines). If you also have a chance to flank, do so.

Make sure you spread creep from your natural. This is an absolute given. And as kez mentioned, try to hit them when the tanks are sieging up (less experienced players will siege up all their tanks in one go).

Mid game you can pretty much stick to Roach/Ling/Bling (whether you use Mutas or Infestors) to hold you off whilst you expand and tech up to T3. Of course, assuming appropriate micro (Banelings hitting Marines, Roaches/Lings hitting the tanks)

You can also experiment with getting +1 Armor early, as it'll allow Zerglings to survive a tank shot before they get +1 Vehicle Attack.

I've purposely not mentioned Mutas/Infestors since choosing which tech path you want to go can be more of a personal style thing. Mutas are fairly fragile, but if handled correctly can do enough damage. The benefits of Infestors is that it allows you a smooth T3 transition and provide a more solid defence against Marines, but sacrifices mobility.

EDIT: Roach/Muta won't do much against Marines.

[crAzerk]

I've been adapting the style of Glade recently in my games of going roach-baneling opening. This opening is pretty robust and holds even if he doesn't go marine/tank and goes for blueflame hellions, etc, whereas if you opened ling/bling you may have more problems with hellion/marine pushes

Roach bane basically transits into infestors or mutas, which as matt has very nicely put, is really a personal preference thing. For instance, Glade really hates infestors for some reason, and always uses mutas.
I personally prefer infestors, because of fungal and neural, both very helpful for breaking marine/tank contains.

+1 armor asap is actually quite crucial regardless of the composition of the Terran. They will help your lings survive longer against tanks, roaches survive longer against everything, and just keeps you up to par with the Terran who will most definitely get infantry weapon upgrades

[Silver Pharaoh]

roach banes seem rather gas heavy...and watching his stream, I do see him usually going roaches and banes against terran, roaches and hydra against toss. The thing is, executing the engagement is my problem usually. Against terran, i always get +1 armor just for the sake of the tanks.

My problem is probably teching to infestors. I just don't know when to stop making units and tech because it's almost impossible to scout terran especially with marines patrolling the base. On Metalopolis, it's really hard for me to beat this unit composition as flanking is really hard with the narrow pathways favouring terran. And he knows no to siege all at once.

[matthras]

That's why it's Roach/Ling/Bling. If you make ALL your zerglings into banelings (which isn't necessary unless you're going for a bust) of course it's going to be gas heavy.

Fact of the matter is you'll end up banking resources since you usually won't have enough larva to have enough Zergling production such that you'll use up the extra resources.

If you have spare resources, you either tech/get upgrades/throw down another Hatchery.

Apart from that, we can't help you without replays.

[FvRelimzkE]

I'm only in Gold but I have found that if you're using Ling/Bling/Muta, you have to keep your mutas somewhere that can hit the tanks from the back once the marines move forward, and it is a necessity that you attack from multiple directions. I usually attack from two directions, with speedlings in the lead and banelings coming in immediately after. This has a pretty decent success rate for me.

[PiG]

Simple answer:

1) Scout
2) You see marine tank and production befitting a push
3) stop droning well before its gunna hit and just get alot of stuff.
4) Wait a bit outside the terran base.
5) When he moves out hit A + click behind the terran army.
6) Win.

Once the T sits just outside your base with his tanks spread across several cliffs and behind ravines and long grass n shit, ur dead unless u have an epic econ lead. Easier to just not get as many drones and crush them whenever they move out unseiged or clumped up.

Same as when you scout a 4/6/7 gate you just stop droning and get a billion units n screw them up in the open where they cant ff. General rule of zerg is know when to stop droning, and chances are its well before what you think.

Quick Comments

Silver Pharaoh:

[Aean(:]

Originally Posted by PiG

Simple answer:

1) Scout
2) You see marine tank and production befitting a push
3) stop droning well before its gunna hit and just get alot of stuff.
4) Wait a bit outside the terran base.
5) When he moves out hit A + click behind the terran army.
6) Win.

Once the T sits just outside your base with his tanks spread across several cliffs and behind ravines and long grass n shit, ur dead unless u have an epic econ lead. Easier to just not get as many drones and crush them whenever they move out unseiged or clumped up.

Same as when you scout a 4/6/7 gate you just stop droning and get a billion units n screw them up in the open where they cant ff. General rule of zerg is know when to stop droning, and chances are its well before what you think.

Tip for my fellow terrans:
Send 1-2 marines ahead of your army as you move out.

Quick Comments

PapaBigBelly:

can send an scv too, since they are faster

[Silver Pharaoh]

They would send some marines to clear out the towers and I would be in the dark for a while. Should I keep on sending lings just to see if he's really moving out or what? Cuz sometimes, they just shark around.

[SLCN.Kez]

in regards to "when do i tech up" or whatever it was, assuming u stopped his first push ok, thats when u tech, as it takes terran another 3 mins to make 3-4 tanks (assuming hes on 2 factories) + time it takes forh im to push out + clear ur creep (make sure u re shit out creep tumours after his initial push). but yeah basically what pig said.

[PiG]

Originally Posted by kez

in regards to "when do i tech up" or whatever it was, assuming u stopped his first push ok, thats when u tech, as it takes terran another 3 mins to make 3-4 tanks (assuming hes on 2 factories) + time it takes forh im to push out + clear ur creep (make sure u re shit out creep tumours after his initial push). but yeah basically what pig said.

Yep this is exactly correct, after you reset the tank count you buy yourself time to drone + tech.


Aean: Haha yeah its funny how many terran players only make half-hearted attempts at scouting ahead. Personally I kill these lone marines asap with just part of my army if possible. Whether or not i think i can take the incoming army I don't wanna show my hand so i try to keep them in the dark! Ultimately if the terran has geared up for a push he won't be put off by having his marines sniped, as from his POV its just as possible the zerg is simply trying to buy time after some epic drone rounds.

So keep your armies in unpredictable spots where scan can't see them!

Silver pharoah: yes never give up those towers to just a few marines (or stalkers in the case of toss). Force your opponent to commit to these positions if he wants the map control. Personally i often leave roaches at the towers so that helions can't pick them off easily. The rest of my army is often far out on the map... not sharking like T or P because I don't want my opponent to see me :P. More like Foxing lol! This allows me to be ready to jump on a silly move out with tanks in a ball unseiged or counter quickly!

Oh and a general thought: As zerg having less drones then your opponent isn't necessarily a bad thing as long as you have the hatcheries + queens to quickly mass drones after winning a battle. Alot of the top zergs are using heavy roach ling armies in the early and mid-game as long as they stay ahead in actual bases it doesn't matter that their opponent has more workers because their opponent has ALOT of trouble veryifying just where the zerg economy is at and usually feels forced to attack or pressure to stop the zerg econ getting out of control. This allows zergs to engage, trade armies; their own cheap and low-tech one for the opponents often more expensive and higher tech army (sentrys, collossus, seige tanks etc.)

You'll notice the new and improved Idra is slowly moving towards this style whenever he scouts an incoming push or has his scouting denied. He realises units will stop possible attacks and have much more utility as opposed to a massive drone round which has the potential to lose you the game right there.

[Silver Pharaoh]

I see. Thanks a lot for the tips guys.