[ROOT`iaguz]

Another good idea for WCS is just to do what england did for theirs.

"oh shit our players are all bad.... SEND FOR TASTOSIS!"

25k viewers **** yeah

As regards sunset we all have our small roles. I am a player. I have to play and be entertaining and hopefully if I do that well enough it works. Ditto for all the players, all the casters and all the manager folk and all the other people. It's one thing to think about solutions to problems, but **** it. You have your roles. It's simple. Just do that and do it well.

Quick Comments

	inFeZa:	.......................................
	Paroxysm:	so true...
	Dox:	this guy keeps shit real (and interesting)
	Sunset:	Awh. Am I the tweeter? -_-
	nGenLight:	likewise the scholars need to theorycraft for solutions so we have better understanding of our roles
	AxSGRiM:	uk players aren't bad ==
	NOM:	^ But there not sexy like Aussie players :p

[bLaCkcAt]

Malaysian scene is dead? Owh man
I just started picking up sc2 (from BW)...

Quick Comments

	Sunset:	Don't listen to the big scary man. You can be our Blackcat <3
	inFeZa:	Nothing is stopping you from playing.

[syfChadMann]

I'm all for getting some of the scene's movers and shakers together and collaborating for some big dawg shizz... I know right.. I'm trying to be professional and I say "big dawg shizz" - idgaf.

Anyway, I agree with alot of the points being addressed, in short - we need to be professional, promote our sponsors, give ROI to investors and build the scene - its not going to happen overnight and alot of effort needs to be expended before it does. we can all do our part - spread awareness and fund events.. if you have some extra cash and love eSports - why not put on a tournament - or contact someone that can on your behalf?.. Perhaps nirvAnA could set up a donation section to donate to your favourite team to help them build up?.. but I see the next step for SEA is to build its competition and get out to MLG and GSL and make a name for ourselves. Lets do dis yo.

eSports
SEA SC2
the saddle club.

Quick Comments

VoxMSI.Rogue:

♥ tsc 4 lyfe

[|Erasmus|]

Originally Posted by inFeZa

don't really know what point you're making... so far I've not seen any marketing for WCS and not through the channels I was talking about.

EDIT: oh, and chadmann... I'm going to have to disagree and say that I think donations are not the way to growth. I think if it's possible to find a way to reach financial sustainability at the current time, then there is room for growth. As long as the scene remains in the state where it's just bleeding money out and relying on donations to keep itself propped up, there will be a lack of sponsor money walking in the door.

Quick Comments

syfChadMann:

oh my lord.

[syfChadMann]

Originally Posted by |Erasmus|

don't really know what point you're making... so far I've not seen any marketing for WCS and not through the channels I was talking about.

EDIT: oh, and chadmann... I'm going to have to disagree and say that I think donations are not the way to growth. I think if it's possible to find a way to reach financial sustainability at the current time, then there is room for growth. As long as the scene remains in the state where it's just bleeding money out and relying on donations to keep itself propped up, there will be a lack of sponsor money walking in the door.

I...
eh...
Okay, if community funds and supports it - it will grow. Growth leads to exposure, exposure leads to marketing opportunities ... that means sponsorship. It's addressing the 'catch 22' situation currently in place where we have zero exposure.. and low competition.. boost competition, boost exposure, boost investment returns.

Marketing 101 big boy.
EDIT - actually I'm going to explain this a bit more.. just so I don't get silly responses..
If you want to grow something that has no ROI benefit.. it's hard to get external investment. So you have to prop it up and bleed funds into it to bolster it while it finds its feet. Fake self-sufficiency until the beast can support itself. make sense? okay.. good, now go support eSports how ever you can. ty

Anyway, I'm sure there are plenty of talented individuals in the community that can promote the Aus WCS effectively.. also, Blizzard is involved.. I'm sure they will do their part to bolster the event.

[NvRossi]

chucked a few tweets at Khaldor while he was doing a Q and A while streaming the Gigabyte and Nvidia tournament to 5k viewers and saw quite a few others tweeting regarding Aus etc...

He is aware of our scene and said we have alot of potential :P

Quick Comments

inFeZa:

:)

[|Erasmus|]

Originally Posted by cR.ChadMann

I...
eh...
Okay, if community funds and supports it - it will grow. Growth leads to exposure, exposure leads to marketing opportunities ... that means sponsorship. It's addressing the 'catch 22' situation currently in place where we have zero exposure.. and low competition.. boost competition, boost exposure, boost investment returns.

Marketing 101 big boy.

Anyway, I'm sure there are plenty of talented individuals in the community that can promote the Aus WCS effectively.. also, Blizzard is involved.. I'm sure they will do their part to bolster the event.

I've studied enough business and economics to know that if I"m looking for an investment opportunity, I'd be looking for something which has a way of making money, not something running more spectacular events propped up by donations.

So you don't need to be too condescending. But that is also my own opinion, and I know I'm not alone in it.

And of course they can, I didn't say they couldn't.

[syfChadMann]

Originally Posted by |Erasmus|

I've studied enough business and economics to know that if I"m looking for an investment opportunity, I'd be looking for something which has a way of making money, not something running more spectacular events propped up by donations.

So you don't need to be too condescending. But that is also my own opinion, and I know I'm not alone in it.

And of course they can, I didn't say they couldn't.

I have a degree in marketing dude..

ROI isn't all about dollars and cents. It's about exposure.. brand awareness, advertising, promotion... these activities see no direct ROI - but build brand awareness and product awareness - that leads to sales.

Quick Comments

	iMSystem:	+1 If only everyone else knew this...
	TAriiChard:	He didn't go to Mktg2020 =)
	inFeZa:	Any Exposure is Good Exposure.

[cruxSpoon]

Originally Posted by cR.ChadMann

Quote:
Originally Posted by |Erasmus|
I've studied enough business and economics to know that if I"m looking for an investment opportunity, I'd be looking for something which has a way of making money, not something running more spectacular events propped up by donations.

So you don't need to be too condescending. But that is also my own opinion, and I know I'm not alone in it.

And of course they can, I didn't say they couldn't.
I have a degree in marketing dude..

ROI isn't all about dollars and cents. It's about exposure.. brand awareness, advertising, promotion... these activities see no direct ROI - but build brand awareness and product awareness - that leads to sales.

You're both arguing semantics!!!

"that leads to sales" = ROI. That is the end game goal of investment no matter which way you look at it. For dick measuring purposes I am a Finance Major AND Bachelor of Law. So i've seen these words thrown around in a few contexts. To both your points however.

Donations whilst helpful, are not sustainable for a few reasons. For sustainability you need to have consistency. Donations are not consistent in both amount and when they come in. sc2sea has done a great job of keeping prize pools consistent for its tournaments by using the donations wisely. I can't help but feel if there was constant set amount being injected into sc2sea every month that we would see larger prize pools, attracting larger players. Now we see that as an investment. *NB - you may define these terms differently, but pls take away the substance not the terminology argument from this spiel.

Now why would anyone invest in sc2? Exposure, advertising? All the points have been hit above. As a team with sponsors you know what that means (Mr Chad ). In order for exposure those players have to do well, at foreign events. This is one way to gain sc2sea popularity.

The other is, as discussed, to gain popularity at home to attract foreigners to sea. The investments we see here are already taking place in such things as ACL and by Benji and Systems streams on tournaments such as xGTL and IEM Gamescom.

To summarise this summary!

1. Dont argue semantics where the content is same pls...this is how we start down the circlejerk trains.
2. Investment in players needs more exposure - do better at foreign events
3. Investment in tournaments at home needs more exposure - need to attract bigger names.
4. Mooses point still not dealt with, brought up earlier (system i think) - self sustainability, whcih invokes points 2,3 about getting returns on investments (see the running in circles?)

All i've done really is summarize and clarify the majority of whats been said before it gets into a big argument fueled by misunderstanding.

Quick Comments

	mGGDrGooSe:	c-c-c-c-c-combo breaker
	PiG:	<3
	Cyanide:	nicely put!
	AxSGRiM:	ezpz

[breadfan]

I'm really enjoying this thread now.

Dox/Sunset/Inmaniac pointed out something important re: spreading awareness.

I, as a lowly platinum player who hopes one day to be good at this game, but otherwise just really loves starcraft 2 and esports, can do a lot more than what I am doing. I've regularly tried to think of ways I can "help out" the scene - maybe I need to save some pennies and donate a prize pool to some tournament. Maybe I can use my various skills in some way to initiate some big thing. Maybe I need to volunteer to help with some of the behind the scenes stuff, like admining tournaments so existing tournament organisers can focus on other things.

More simple than any of those, upvoting reddit posts is something that I don't really do. I've never been a reddit user, and I only made an account to upvote a post about the ACL Gold Coast stream earlier in the year. But I recognise there are tons of active SC2 redditors, and me making a more focused drive to upvote ANYTHING to do with the SEA scene can make a big impact. So I will strive to do this simple yet overlooked task, starting today. And hey, maybe we can implement some forum feature where people can add links to reddit posts related to SEA, so that the people who aren't likely to spend the time searching through piles of posts in search can make a better habit of reading/upvoting the relevant ones. I don't know how this would work, but I'm sure there are a few ways it could be done well.

Another thing that has been sort of touched upon is that we do have friends in the "upper" SC2 community. People who actually participate in SEA events and I believe would actually love to see our scene succeed. People like Incontrol, who supports and casts charity events like the rumble in the bronze, and for that matter participates in things like the EG vs Eve showmatch. People like Khaldor who casted, I believe, the Dox Cup #2. Perhaps even Tastosis to an extent, when they declare they want to come to SEA events. This is more thinking out loud, but I'm sure this can be utilised in some way - maybe if we can create ways in which it is worthwhile to involve them more, we can get more exposure. Exposure may not be our only issue, but it is one of them.

Quick Comments

PiG:

reddit links on sc2sea good idea! Remember sharing FB and retweeting is just as important!

[VoxMSI.Rogue]

I think we should make an sea video, some form of parody featuring our top players and community members.

Like a kony 2012 inspired South East Asian SC2 appeal video.

SEA 2012.

Quick Comments

	iVnStinger:	^
	Paroxysm:	Seconded!

[Paroxysm]

Originally Posted by Paroxysm

the main people missing are the sc2 lovers already here in aus who don't know about our events. Not tryingtoConvertRugby

Jared, you commented this on my last post, but what I mean was that a lot of people don't know about sc2sea, but they do know about twitter, sc2 reddit, facebook etc. We need to use those forums to advertise as well as our own if we want to bring it to the world. We cant just all go on the street and hold signs. If only we could...

[PiG]

Originally Posted by IrisRogue

I think we should make an sea video, some form of parody featuring our top players and community members.

Like a kony 2012 inspired South East Asian SC2 appeal video.

SEA 2012.

Any sort of highlight video for our players/events/tournaments would be fantastic to be played at barcraft... been fantasising about this for a while now :P


@Paroxysm ahh yeah I get you man I thought you were going for the "lets put our tournaments on NA and EU time and invite them all to play to get viewers" which while valid shouldn't be something we do too often! But as a let's use those big sits like reddit/TL etc i couldn't agree more.

This isn't about us desperately holding signs in the streets. It's a mixture of passing on the word in ladder/bnetchat/clan communications and getting in the habit of hyping and discussing our tournaments consistently through all the correct avenues! I agree with you 100% Payoxy!

[nGenLight]

How I dream of the day us known SEA players actually get recognized at Barcrafts (without wearing our uniform). Often time I feel like our own fans ogle towards NA stars more so than their local heroes, it is a little sad. Exposure is key I guess, and as a Player I really don't want to think / don't know of what else I can do, but to "SHOW GOOD GAMES".

Quick Comments

	VoxMSI.Rogue:	♥
	PiG:	aw man yeah this would be sweet... after IEM I felt so proud when dozens of people introduced themseles to me! needthis!
	frequency:	as if all the girls dont swarm to the cute chinese boy already
	TACeeSerps:	I was fanboying over you at Arena Lan, didn't have the guts to say hi though. Does that count??

[Paroxysm]

Yes! Numerous times I have been talking to someone on the ladder, when I'm not raging at protoss ^^, and the chat will lean towards tournaments and whatnot. I mention sc2sea and can imagine a blank stare looking back at me. From there I link them to sc2sea, and say check it out, its a really good site. Whether or not they actually follow through with it is a totally different thing altogether.

But if we want to grow the SEA scene, 2 steps definitely need to be followed:

1. Advertising on the actual SEA Server to people who have no idea what sc2sea.
2. Advertising through all Starcraft 2 Forums - TL, SC2SEA, SCReddit, Twitter etc. etc.

That, in conjunction with hype videos (DOX? haha) on youtube that are linked to screddit and TL is a good way to begin advertising for our region. Even players streaming daily. I stream daily, and I get 15ish viewers on average. Half are from SEA, half are from the rest of the world. 90% of the people from the rest of the world ask, 'what is the SEA server?' in the chat channel.

As we all know, They don't want to come here for anything because we apparently have very little to offer. If we want to improve our region, we have to go to them. It's sad but true.

[nGenLight]

Just an idea, a model we can look up at - Taiwan SC2 Scene.

We could learn a lot from Taiwan, relatively small market like us, however they really got a nice system/exposure/e-sports culture going on there. & Their fans actually know, love, support their local heroes! But I guess that might be because everyone there wears glasses whereas here everyone is running around kicking a football or something.

HRU has like 53475348534 girl fans; Want to see the day where handsome guys like Rossi can get all the cats he can get, for being a SC2 Superstar, and proud of it, too.

Quick Comments

	x5_dot:	men of starcraft calendar?? ;)
	NOM:	^ Iv'e been dying to have this for awhile. :p
	cruxSpoon:	I wear glasses...**** you...or god bless you...your choice
	mGGDrGooSe:	I know we have enough women for a women of starcraft one as well (^_^)

[Cyanide]

Originally Posted by Paroxysm

I mention sc2sea and can imagine a blank stare looking back at me. From there I link them to sc2sea, and say check it out, its a really good site. Whether or not they actually follow through with it is a totally different thing altogether.

Maybe we can get our SEA players to start every game with
"For more replays, visit SC2SEA.COM" lol...

Quick Comments

	breadfan:	Pretty sure that gets automatically added to files when uploaded to that replay site. Players aren't advertising it.
	mGGDrGooSe:	Hey I was gonna suggest that. Start everygame with "glhf, for more local sc2 action visit sc2sea.com" just ctrl+c it in

[Paroxysm]

We should try it for a day or two Cyanide ahaha

Quick Comments

mGGDrGooSe:

comment above got cut off. You can use ctrl+v to say things in game.

[Delraich]

There is a lot of different points raised in this thread. I think a useful starting point would be taking stock of a) where are we now b) where do we want to be c) defining each of the gaps between a and b, and d) then proposing how to actually get to b)

Reading these posts, alot of the suggestions are mostly around b) and d). I haven't specifically tallied and classified the themes of each post, but the main points seem to be around a number of relatively ambicious aims:
Increase the profile of SEA starcraft 2
Have a SEA SC2 hero(s)
Win significant tournaments
Need more money/ get more sponserships
Increase overall professionalism of community and figure heads
Improve opportunities/ support/ training system for players to be able to compete at the very top levels

I am sure that a fair few of the above are linked, but I would think that if doing all of the above things is not possible in one go, maybe a few things can be started that may lead to the others being more feasable. For example, from what I read, it sounds like tGun and Moonglades opportunities in Korea are often cited in a very positive way. With this in mind, if Pig (or someone else) was supported again in this way, this could be a great start in this direction. This person would be a representative of the region and if he/ she ended up winning major stuff and doing speeches and whatnot, this would send a very professional image for SEA that is tied to success (assuming they are also delivering the goods by winning stuff). Then the community should benefit by its association with this person. This one thing could be a significant and relatively feasabile start in this direction.

[inFeZa]

Originally Posted by xGKingiaguz

Another good idea for WCS is just to do what england did for theirs.

"oh shit our players are all bad.... SEND FOR TASTOSIS!"

25k viewers **** yeah

You know what... as much as this shits me it kinda is true. We are having internationals for WCS apparently, dont think it's tastosis, still should bring some viewers in if its a name worth knowing. Maybe wolf/khaldor as korea isn't too far.? Just have to wait and see.

Whoever it is, it will be a pleasure to meet and observe for them!