[Pocshi]

Daybreak LE (3).SC2Replay


I have currently a gold protoss, wanting to improve my mechanics

Thank you very much, add me if you want to have practice matches as well: Pocshi.466

[mGGAequitas]

Originally Posted by Pocshi

Daybreak LE (3).SC2Replay

hi thar,


ok let's look at the attack at ~7 minutes, which puts you a lot behind.
First of all forcefields are to stop repair on the bunker, ffs aren't necessary in those positions if no repair. Also when you go to attack make sure you pop a guardian shield it helps reduce the damage so much. This is part of why your attack fails but the main reason is because this build is meant to exploit a small timing window where you just have so much stuff compared to terran. However because you haven't mastered the build you end up attacking a minute or so later which means he has a lot more stuff and can repel you easily. If you are going to copy sase's build, get a bunch of replays where he does this push and watch carefully exactly when things go down.
So during this attack he loses 100 resources (from the bunker) whereas you lose 800 resources from your army, which is not a good position to be in 8 minutes into a game.
Another thing that puts you behind is your macro. When your nexus finishes it's 25 probes to 24 scvs. this is about when you attack. After the attack its 29 probes to 33 scvs. Make sure that you are constantly producing probes (even better to chronoboost them) especially during attacks. if you can't micro while making probes, don't go for timing attacks, instead just build up an army and 1a it, ignore the micro completely untill you can macro properly. During 7-8 minutes (during your attack) your resources go up to 1k-1.5, same at 15-16 minutes, floating 2k because you are worried about the battle. Focus on keeping your resources low.
16:30-17 - after the battle you keep just rallying in units to their death, your army is small and all over the place and gets cleaned up easily. If you are losing a battle, retreat, make a big army and then attack again. (look at the resources lost at 16:30 and 17:20, you put yourself a lot behind)
Again i'll suggest you focus on making probes more constantly, since you only have 52 probes at 18 minutes into the game which is the same as what terran has except they have mules so your economy is quite a bit worse than theirs.
You are a bit behind in upgrades and you have 2 collossi not doing anything in your main. If you can't defeat an army retreat, don't throw away units, even if it means you lose your nexus. Retreat and then hit his army with a force which can actually kill him.

Summary
1. Make more probes -> more money
2. Spend more money -> have more stuff
3.

+ [????] +

1a

4. Win!

Quick Comments

	Nemo:	++
	xGKingdelete:	:) <-- imagine it's nodding as well

[Pocshi]

I see, i'll focus on trying to be able to make probes more, and maybe add more gateways so i can spend the money.

Thank you

[mGGDrGooSe]

http://www.sc2sea.com/replays.php?do=viewreplay&id=1355

Gold ZvP on condemned ridge. Completely typical opener, no fancy stuff happening. Obviuosly some minor macro slip ups with missed injects, but i still have 48 drones at 8 mins, so I don't think they are anything we can call game breaking (I am usually smoother than this, but the end result is always the same anyway). So at the first proper engage, I only have around 150ish supply, which is less than the desired 200 'stephano' style. But I loathe the 12 min max. i hate mass roach with a passion. Anyway, point being, there are obvious mechanical and macro things that could be fixed, such as producing during an engagement instead of after it, etc. But for all money the game looks completely even until he swats my 2-0 (vs 1-1) army aside and just a-moves to victory.

[Nemo]

Originally Posted by mGGDrGooSe

http://www.sc2sea.com/replays.php?do=viewreplay&id=1355

Gold ZvP on condemned ridge. Completely typical opener, no fancy stuff happening. Obviuosly some minor macro slip ups with missed injects, but i still have 48 drones at 8 mins, so I don't think they are anything we can call game breaking (I am usually smoother than this, but the end result is always the same anyway). So at the first proper engage, I only have around 150ish supply, which is less than the desired 200 'stephano' style. But I loathe the 12 min max. i hate mass roach with a passion. Anyway, point being, there are obvious mechanical and macro things that could be fixed, such as producing during an engagement instead of after it, etc. But for all money the game looks completely even until he swats my 2-0 (vs 1-1) army aside and just a-moves to victory.

If tgun or Apth are available, that's a job for you guys. If not it will be done by the usual suspects (or any volunteer).

[Nemo]

Originally Posted by mGGDrGooSe

http://www.sc2sea.com/replays.php?do=viewreplay&id=1355

Gold ZvP on condemned ridge. Completely typical opener, no fancy stuff happening. Obviuosly some minor macro slip ups with missed injects, but i still have 48 drones at 8 mins, so I don't think they are anything we can call game breaking (I am usually smoother than this, but the end result is always the same anyway). So at the first proper engage, I only have around 150ish supply, which is less than the desired 200 'stephano' style. But I loathe the 12 min max. i hate mass roach with a passion. Anyway, point being, there are obvious mechanical and macro things that could be fixed, such as producing during an engagement instead of after it, etc. But for all money the game looks completely even until he swats my 2-0 (vs 1-1) army aside and just a-moves to victory.

Replay Analysis vs
http://fr.twitch.tv/nemoulysses/b/321644937#

Summary

• When you see a bad wall or a window of attack, switch to attack mode asap until you have done damage or won if you canend the game. That's the strength of Stephano. Being ahead because he don't allow opponent to be greedy or be unsafe.
• Engagements were dreadfull. That's your main weakness for now. Engage with both lings and roach in the same time. Never attack in chokes. Best way to engage is spine in front with roaches and lings attacking by behind. You already have 2 groups for your army use them.
• Creep was inexistant so your 5 spines were useless. You could have easily put them in a position where they would have defended the entrance to both your Nat and 3rd.

Quick Comments

mGGAequitas:

http://www.sc2sea.com/images/misc/postnotes_pos.gif

[Andross]

Hey guys I really need help with my ZvP matchup, I keep losing and it's just getting ridiculous now I'm really starting to think protoss are OP and there's no point playing zerg. I denied his third for ages and had 50 more drones than him and HE STILL WINS. Any advice would be very appreciated, thanks.

[xGKingdelete]

Originally Posted by Andross

Hey guys I really need help with my ZvP matchup, I keep losing and it's just getting ridiculous now I'm really starting to think protoss are OP and there's no point playing zerg. I denied his third for ages and had 50 more drones than him and HE STILL WINS. Any advice would be very appreciated, thanks.

Firstly, you never had 50 more drones than him. In fact, in the entire early/midgame, you were pretty much even on worker count, which means protoss is ahead.

In a normal game, a protoss would want to get a third base by 15 minutes, or risk having oversaturation for a while after the main base mines out. However, your opponent didn't make enough workers either. This blunder of his meant that he didn't even need the third base that quickly, because he wasn't mining out his first two bases faster enough.


Believe it or not, your opponent was winning for most of this game. Even though you were in pretty good shape after you killed his entire army, you lost your third, didn't have as many drones as you wanted and didn't have any answer to the colossus tech that he was making at home.


Tips.
Against a timing push, you want to wait for the last moment possible before you run in and attack his army. Your army is growing faster than his, and it's at your base, so you will be reinforcing much faster than him. Also, you have spines.
Everytime you threw your army into his prematurely, he came out ahead. You threw a series of small armies at him, instead of waiting and hurling one giant army at him.

+ Show +

Setting up a flank is important, because forcefields become effectively useless. Notice how every time you attacked, you only attacked from one angle and got forcefielded, and lost all of your zerglings? This is how to stop that. Just wait for him to push in within range of spines, then send everything in from both sides. You can't lose.

You needed a similar thing against his second deathball at 22 mins. Try to get a concave, don't get forcefielded.

What should have happened in this game, was that you absolutely crushed his army, kept your third base and most of your units alive, droned up to 80, and then won.


Here is another important thing to consider. When to take gas? How much to mine? 6:00 is a good time to take gas, so leave that. But you took too many geysers. 4 is too many. Roach ling is very mineral heavy, and you also need minerals to make drones. You need minerals to beat these attacks. Rewatch the replay, while looking at the gas count. Now imagine if all of that gas was minerals, do the maths, and figure out how many zerglings you didn't have because you mined gas instead.


And lastly, but most importantly, focus on your injects, focus on making drones quicker. You've probably heard that a lot, but that's because it's important. As zerg, macroing better is the easiest way to improve.

Quick Comments

mGGAequitas:

http://www.sc2sea.com/images/misc/postnotes_pos.gif

[Andross]

Originally Posted by SQL.delete

Firstly, you never had 50 more drones than him. In fact, in the entire early/midgame, you were pretty much even on worker count, which means protoss is ahead.

In a normal game, a protoss would want to get a third base by 15 minutes, or risk having oversaturation for a while after the main base mines out. However, your opponent didn't make enough workers either. This blunder of his meant that he didn't even need the third base that quickly, because he wasn't mining out his first two bases faster enough.


Believe it or not, your opponent was winning for most of this game. Even though you were in pretty good shape after you killed his entire army, you lost your third, didn't have as many drones as you wanted and didn't have any answer to the colossus tech that he was making at home.


Tips.
Against a timing push, you want to wait for the last moment possible before you run in and attack his army. Your army is growing faster than his, and it's at your base, so you will be reinforcing much faster than him. Also, you have spines.
Everytime you threw your army into his prematurely, he came out ahead. You threw a series of small armies at him, instead of waiting and hurling one giant army at him.

+ Show +

Setting up a flank is important, because forcefields become effectively useless. Notice how every time you attacked, you only attacked from one angle and got forcefielded, and lost all of your zerglings? This is how to stop that. Just wait for him to push in within range of spines, then send everything in from both sides. You can't lose.

You needed a similar thing against his second deathball at 22 mins. Try to get a concave, don't get forcefielded.

What should have happened in this game, was that you absolutely crushed his army, kept your third base and most of your units alive, droned up to 80, and then won.


Here is another important thing to consider. When to take gas? How much to mine? 6:00 is a good time to take gas, so leave that. But you took too many geysers. 4 is too many. Roach ling is very mineral heavy, and you also need minerals to make drones. You need minerals to beat these attacks. Rewatch the replay, while looking at the gas count. Now imagine if all of that gas was minerals, do the maths, and figure out how many zerglings you didn't have because you mined gas instead.


And lastly, but most importantly, focus on your injects, focus on making drones quicker. You've probably heard that a lot, but that's because it's important. As zerg, macroing better is the easiest way to improve.

Thanks a lot man that's exactly what I needed, I'll implement the tips you gave me .

Quick Comments

xGKingdelete:

glgl, remember it's never imba, just get better

[mGGDrGooSe]

Cheers Nemo for your thoughts. Basically I think it's coming down to having enough apm to stay on top of macro and actually maintaining map awareness, army awareness and everything else. Need to increase my multitasking somehow. Oh, and the 'g' instead of 'gg' at the end was entirely accidental.

[Nemo]

Originally Posted by mGGDrGooSe

Cheers Nemo for your thoughts. Basically I think it's coming down to having enough apm to stay on top of macro and actually maintaining map awareness, army awareness and everything else. Need to increase my multitasking somehow. Oh, and the 'g' instead of 'gg' at the end was entirely accidental.

You're welcome. Yeah, mechanism is the first difference maker (unfortunately ^^). Creeping a bit and engaging from both sides is the most important thing for you atm, even if it means sacrificing a bit of eco management.

[mGGAequitas]

http://drop.sc/201584

This terran does a 1-1-1 to me with thors banshee and marines. Despite scouting it, having the econ lead for a while and doing some damage to him early on, i pretty much get 1a'd.

During the game I thought I could stop it by just pumping out as many units as possible off 2 base. but that didnt work out so great in that game.
In hindsight; I am thinking that maybe i could have gone for high templar, since feedback, storms and archons would all be really good against that composition. But after the robo would I have enough time to get out a bunch of templar and would my army be too small?

or should I have gone for what I tried but with a lot more cannons? (like 5-10)

[xGKingdelete]

Originally Posted by Aequitas

http://drop.sc/201584

This terran does a 1-1-1 to me with thors banshee and marines. Despite scouting it, having the econ lead for a while and doing some damage to him early on, i pretty much get 1a'd.

During the game I thought I could stop it by just pumping out as many units as possible off 2 base. but that didnt work out so great in that game.
In hindsight; I am thinking that maybe i could have gone for high templar, since feedback, storms and archons would all be really good against that composition. But after the robo would I have enough time to get out a bunch of templar and would my army be too small?

or should I have gone for what I tried but with a lot more cannons? (like 5-10)

while your attacks did damage, I don't think they did enough. You were dedicating too much, it would have been good if you were chronoboosting probes behind it, while trading efficiently. You had lost 1.25k more resources than him when he moved out to your base.

If they pull scvs, pull all your probes, no matter what. That would have made a huge difference. Set up a better concave on the whole ramp, watch the stalkers at the back who werent attacking.

And don't take a third gas against 1-1-1 styles unless you think you can get colossus or something like that out in time.


ht won't work against 1-1-1 variations that hit faster, but maybe it would for this one.

Quick Comments

mGGAequitas:

thx :)

[ToRdizz]

Silver PvT on daybreak.

I play defensive at the start because I had played this guy before and knew there would be early pressure. I haven't been playing protoss that long and I'm having a heap of trouble knowing when to expand.

http://drop.sc/202314

[xGKingdelete]

Originally Posted by dizz

Silver PvT on daybreak.

I play defensive at the start because I had played this guy before and knew there would be early pressure. I haven't been playing protoss that long and I'm having a heap of trouble knowing when to expand.

http://drop.sc/202314

a lot of times you can expand off one gateway, but only after scouting, and processing scouting information vs terran is very complicated, so don't worry about that.

For now, expand after your first warp in of units. That should be enough to hold against any early pressure that isn't all-in with scvs. With your first zealot and stalker, you can take control of the watchtowers, or even poke up his ramp to see what's going on if you want. The map is yours in the beginning. Having the watchtowers helps a lot, it's much easier to prepare for an attack if you see it coming 30 seconds away.


Try to start your third base around 12-13 mins, so you have somewhere to transfer to when your main mines out. If you see that you have colossus and he has no vikings, that's also safe to expand with.


Spend your money better. Try not to float too much, add a few gateways if you can't spend it all. Make sure you get templar tech, it's just really really good. Even if you find ht too difficult to use, you can make archons as well. You want to have as many gas units in your army as possible (high templar, archons, colossus) if you want to beat a terran army.

Just focus on spending your money, most important thing for now.

Quick Comments

Nemo:

Nice !

[ToRdizz]

Thanks man. I tend to stop building probes after 2 bases in most of my matches because I'm too tentative to take a 3rd. I want to use HTs cos they look so cool but don't have much practice with them. I guess just jumping in would be best! Thanks a lot.

Quick Comments

xGKingdelete:

ht are pretty imba, get them and you'll find that you start to win a lot more

[Andross]

Hey guys I have been having a lot of trouble vs protoss since I switched to terran, according to me I macroed reasonably well but I still lost and don't no why, I also done reasonable damage with medi-drops, I just can't seem to win.

[mGGAequitas]

Originally Posted by Andross

Hey guys I have been having a lot of trouble vs protoss since I switched to terran, according to me I macroed reasonably well but I still lost and don't no why, I also done reasonable damage with medi-drops, I just can't seem to win.

your 2 medivac drops did an INSANE amount of damage completely ruining his econ so the only thing he could do at that point would be to attack.
your army despite being behind in upgrades (2-2 to 1-1), should have easily been able to destroy his attack. Your two biggest mistakes were; not stimming and engaging on the ramp. Make sure when there is a major engagement you stim asap. and vs protoss you really want as large a concave as possible, you want to fight in open areas instead of in chokes like that ramp, to nullify the effectiveness of the forcefields.
If you had spread out your army in a large concave then stimmed and attack moved you would have won imo.

[sneak]

Hi I tried banshee opener agains a protoss. and I always get rolled when i do it. Could someone check my production and give me some feedback please.

[TCPLemminks]

Need a replay analysed?
There's a thread for that.

Quick Comments

syfChadMann:

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