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faithHunter · Mon, 26th-Mar-2012, 1:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xGKingiaguz

God ******* dammit somehow this is turning into a real thread. Look we even have a poll!

MECH DOES NOT WORK. YOU ARE WASTING PRECIOUS TIME AND LADDER POINTS BY DOING IT INSTEAD OF BIO. IT'S NOT UNDERUSED OR ANYTHING, IT GOT USED AND THEN TERRANS LEARNED THAT MECH UNITS ARE UTTER TRASH THAT CANNOT KILL ANYTHING PROTOSS BECAUSE UNLIKE MECH VS ZERG AND MECH VS TERRAN WHEN YOU GET LIKE 15 SIEGE TANKS INSTEAD OF KILLING EVERYTHING, PROTOSS JUST LAUGH AT THAT AND A MOVE IT WITH IMMORTALS, CHARGELOTS AND ARCHONS. WHAT, 35 DAMAGE TO ONE 350 SHIELD ARCHON? THAT SOUNDS LIKE EFFICIENCY TO ME!

That poll has been there ever since I made this thread. Why complain about it now? O.o

**nGenLight** · Mon, 26th-Mar-2012, 1:43 PM

To be perfectly honest, pure mech is pretty bad, some mech units work very well with your standard bio, not going into detail, refuse to help you terran fukers, you guys no mother.

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VB_Rhuubarb · Mon, 26th-Mar-2012, 6:37 PM

I have got Mech TvP to work offracing in diamond, so anything I say probably won't work (or be relevent) above that.

Having said that, I find the trick to it is early game cloak banshees with marines and thors to defend until about 10 minutes when you can transition into virtually pure mech (with banshees). The trick to surviving most early attacks is just observer sniping with thors which usually ends up with protoss losing everything to banshees.

Admittedly, I get a lot of wins cause my opponents don't know what to do, but then again neither do I late game. Guides on TL say transitioning to Raven/BC with tank/ghost/thor support is the way to go, but I haven't got that far yet.

The reason I go mech though, is because I find it fun, and I don't really enjoy playing bio.

Next_rim · Mon, 26th-Mar-2012, 9:51 PM

Quote:

Having said that, I find the trick to it is early game cloak banshees with marines and thors to defend until about 10 minutes

To defend? I lost to that shit recently, thor + scv repair is strong offense.

Xeen · Tue, 27th-Mar-2012, 10:08 AM

Lategame P can warp 20 gateway units anywhere on the map to reinforce, using warpgates that can be built anywhere on the map, and you want to use a less mobile army?

Sounds good!

Crankenstein · Wed, 28th-Mar-2012, 11:59 AM

I've had success with incorporating siege tanks into a powerful timing attack (such as the 2/2/2) especially on maps where you are able to abuse positioning like the cliff on TDA or any map where you can siege the natural and have the front of the main/ramp covered at the same time with high ground vision provided by banshees.

I've also had success with incorporating 3/4 tanks into my composition early game in order to deny a greedy 3rd like supernova just did in Code S and like MKP and Gumiho have done in the past.

Beyond that I think mech is pretty awful. Listen to HuT and Iaguz... run away.

ROOT`iaguz · Sat, 31st-Mar-2012, 2:07 AM

There are definitely a shitload of cool plays you can do with units that come out of the factory. Some of them even involve taking a bunch of bases! A lot of these are either heavily timing attack focused (eg, we get X tanks and X marines and we go win/lose the game) or they are transition focused (eg, I'm going to make 5 tanks, pretend to push out to pressure, then stop making tanks and get a 3rd and play regular bio. With these tanks my defense against shenanigans is bolstered tremendously, and by faking a timing and transitioning well I can hopefully trick an opponent into goofing up somehow, yay mindgames).

Generally a lot of factory based TvP plays fizzle out as the Protoss death ball becomes far too resistant to tank fire and chews through marines like no-ones business. Fortunately there's plenty of ways to win before that happens!

One of the other big reasons pure mech TvP sucks too is that blue flames are really bad at defeating zealots. Better just get marines anyway it turns out.

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Crankenstein:

WaGGlez · Thu, 5th-Apr-2012, 5:37 AM

In early - mid game I like going marines and siege tanks and it works fine, but late game I don't see mech working at all.

VB_Rhuubarb · Thu, 5th-Apr-2012, 10:22 PM

I've been watching the replays from this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=323003

While it's not pure factory units (pure hellion/tank/thor), the end game army is non bio + ghosts. For those thinking about watching the replays but not sure what to expect. The general theme was during the late game, the player would have a maxed army that consisted of some mix of hellions/tanks/thors/banshees/ravens/battlecruisers and plays a completely passive style (he never attacks with his entire army).

The protosses would admittedly engage fairly badly and get owned, and eventually the mech player would get in such a good position that the protoss just gave up. I find that this player respond quickly to incursions on the minimap and has good tank/ghost control (aka doesn't forget to siege like me, and his ghost usage minimises the effects of HTs).

Here is my most recent attempt of doing the style on ladder:
http://www.sc2sea.com/attachment.php...1&d=1333631584

Next_rim · Fri, 6th-Apr-2012, 1:23 AM

Quote:

I've been watching the replays from this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=323003

Went there, joined channel, found a master player there to test it out. Link to replay below.

http://www.sc2sea.com/replays.php?do=viewreplay&id=712

General thoughts - it's map dependent, and feedback is op.

VB_Rhuubarb · Fri, 6th-Apr-2012, 9:38 AM

I watched the replay, and it shows that you need ghosts with this style. The guy build no ghosts the entire game and got wrecked as you said by HT. I've found that between sensor towers, tanks and ghosts, HTs are not as effective as they were for you Next_Rim.

Also I think the style has to be played in a more 'deathbally' passive than your opponent played. Multiple times he sent groups of units (like 10 tanks by themselves, then 5 BCs) on 'solo' missions. For me, I've found the strength in going 'Mech' is that a mixed army of hellions/tanks/thors/banshees/ravens/battlecruisers/ghosts is VERY cost efficient, but having a mixture like just tank/hellion, or just BC, is pretty bad.

Next_rim · Fri, 6th-Apr-2012, 11:48 PM

Quote:

I watched the replay, and it shows that you need ghosts with this style. The guy build no ghosts the entire game and got wrecked as you said by HT.

True, he needed ghosts really bad. However, 90% of his failure was general positioning. This map is meant to put a forward 4th at a disadvantage, so you need to expand vertical. He chose the forward base and got punished by it with cliff abuse. Basically, after he expanded there, I already had the game. There was exactly 0 chance for him to take a 5th. Even if he were bio, forward base is such a bad choice in pvt here.

ROOT`iaguz · Sat, 7th-Apr-2012, 1:07 AM

ARGH.

YOU WANT ANOTHER REASON WHY MECH SUCKS? IT'S BECAUSE BLUE FLAMES SUCK AND THERE'S THIS OTHER UNIT CALLED THE MARINE WHICH COSTS ONLY MINERALS ARE ARE VASTLY SUPERIOR TO BLUE FLAMES FOR BIG MECH PLAYS EXCEPT YOU KNOW WHAT WE CAN DO WITH MARINES? WE CAN GET CHEAP UPGRADES (which is sick) AND WE CAN DECIDE RANDOMLY THAT IT WOULD BE A MUCH BETTER IDEA TO JUST DROP THIS WHOLE PRETENCE OF GOING MECH FOR A LIVING, THROW DOWN A BUNCH OF RAX AND A STARPORT AND PLAY BIO LIKE GOD (aka David Kim) INTENDED.

Next_rim · Sat, 7th-Apr-2012, 1:23 AM

Quote:

GOD (aka David Kim)

Can it be...oh my!

DtorR · Sat, 7th-Apr-2012, 9:30 PM

Can you show a replay of why mech sucks, from you Iaguz? Some people aren't convinced by your words.

TNSkywolve · Sat, 7th-Apr-2012, 10:46 PM

Hey ppl!,

Just to help out fellow SC2 players.. The thing about mech play in TVP mid-late game is that, you HAVE TO CONTROL THE MATCH IF YOU ARE GOING FOR MECH!..the only reason you're going mech is to break your opponents forces/defense after so long..bear in mind that your army should not just pure bio or heavy mech.. e.g 'You have your marine marauder ball and going in to pressure early(8-10mins).. protoss defend. you retreat..get some medi and try again..should you fail..for your next wave(15++ mins) get some tanks for splash dmg or any other mech that you think should be helpful' ..this way you are forcing the protoss player to counter tech..he will get immortals etc.. this is where your marines marauders will be helpful.. should you fail to break the opponent with your mech and bio build.. resort to special tactics..ghost,drops, multi pronged attack. Above all, when fighting a TVP. you should be wary of the opps tech! and counter them.. this has alot to do with the player themselves..practice makes perfect! anyway I don't recommend heavy mech play against protoss since terran unit production rate is slow(compare protoss warp tech and terran have to queue units)

Hope this helps for all ^-^
Btw I'm a protoss player! ^-^ GL HF!

Next_rim · Sat, 7th-Apr-2012, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Hey ppl!,

Just to help out fellow SC2 players.. The thing about mech play in TVP mid-late game is that, you HAVE TO CONTROL THE MATCH IF YOU ARE GOING FOR MECH!..the only reason you're going mech is to break your opponents forces/defense after so long..bear in mind that your army should not just pure bio or heavy mech.. e.g 'You have your marine marauder ball and going in to pressure early(8-10mins).. protoss defend. you retreat..get some medi and try again..should you fail..for your next wave(15++ mins) get some tanks for splash dmg or any other mech that you think should be helpful' ..this way you are forcing the protoss player to counter tech..he will get immortals etc.. this is where your marines marauders will be helpful.. should you fail to break the opponent with your mech and bio build.. resort to special tactics..ghost,drops, multi pronged attack. Above all, when fighting a TVP. you should be wary of the opps tech! and counter them.. this has alot to do with the player themselves..practice makes perfect! anyway I don't recommend heavy mech play against protoss since terran unit production rate is slow(compare protoss warp tech and terran have to queue units)

Hope this helps for all ^-^
Btw I'm a protoss player! ^-^ GL HF!

wtf have I just read

ROOT`iaguz · Sat, 7th-Apr-2012, 11:09 PM

...

Disregard everything that guy said.

TNSkywolve · Sat, 7th-Apr-2012, 11:48 PM

sry then..my context is very complex.. alot of ppl wont understand me(proven)..

anyway GL with the weakness of mech in TVP.. just compensate that weakness properly and you'll be fine..

STILL DON'T UNDERSTAND!?? THEN WATCH SOME VIDEO GUIDES!(Day9 etc)..

GL HF! ^-^

ROOT`iaguz · Sun, 8th-Apr-2012, 12:25 AM

No, it's not because you're too intelligent it's because your post is very poorly laid out. Maybe english isn't your strong suit and that's fine, but I can't see how anyone could read your post and extract any useful information out of it.

Also, you are in silver league. Mech works there not because it's an intelligent strategy but because people in silver have such sloppy mechanics that you can do pretty much any strategy and it will work and it doesn't mean it's the correct one.

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