SC2SEA.com - Starcraft 2 SEA eSports Community Site

ToRXypha · Mon, 27th-Sep-2010, 12:38 PM

Is there anyway to know if im actually improving my skill level in terms of the leagues.
at the moment i get a few wins (6-7) ahead of 50% and then i start losing a couple and break even again, at the same time my div rank will go up but you know that hardly means anything. guess my question is how can i know i actually am improving in the bigger scheme of things instead of blizzards system that will always make it seem your getting better even if your not and you only know when you get promoted a league or demoted

OxygeN · Mon, 27th-Sep-2010, 12:49 PM

There are of course both quantitative, and qualitative factors to knowing if your improving, and to quickly go through some of them,

Quantitative :
Higher win-rate.
Utilize most of your resources.
Building the counters to your opponent unit mix
Building sufficient production structures.

Qualitative :
You feel more confident vs a specific match-up,
Positioning your units better, (eg. maruders around marines, roaches infront of hydras)
Doing more harassment.
Losing less from harassment.

Hope this helps!

Quick Comments

inFeZa:

good advice

framtidenskrig · Sat, 3rd-Mar-2012, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OxygeN

There are of course both quantitative, and qualitative factors to knowing if your improving, and to quickly go through some of them,

Quantitative :
Higher win-rate.
Utilize most of your resources.
Building the counters to your opponent unit mix
Building sufficient production structures.

Qualitative :
You feel more confident vs a specific match-up,
Positioning your units better, (eg. maruders around marines, roaches infront of hydras)
Doing more harassment.
Losing less from harassment.

Hope this helps!

+1, well played

ToRXypha · Mon, 27th-Sep-2010, 12:58 PM

Yeah, i definatly feel like im improving all of those areas, and im seeing the odd plat player being matched againts me.
i guess for me i don't tend to improve unless i'm playing someone i know is better then me, (feel like i have to step up to the plate, just motivates me more). so maybe im improving and go up in blizzards background rating so it places me againts progressively harder where i continue to win and then hit my wall where i level back out to 50%, ( well i hope thats whats happening and im just not backstepping to old spot)

If there are any Plat/Diamond players who are willing to give me a 1v1 every now and then let me know, i think that would greatly improve my play

lolwut · Fri, 28th-Oct-2011, 5:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xypha

Yeah, i definatly feel like im improving all of those areas, and im seeing the odd plat player being matched againts me.
i guess for me i don't tend to improve unless i'm playing someone i know is better then me, (feel like i have to step up to the plate, just motivates me more). so maybe im improving and go up in blizzards background rating so it places me againts progressively harder where i continue to win and then hit my wall where i level back out to 50%, ( well i hope thats whats happening and im just not backstepping to old spot)

If there are any Plat/Diamond players who are willing to give me a 1v1 every now and then let me know, i think that would greatly improve my play

I could play against you. lolwut/901 plat/diamond level zerg. I can play all races at platnuim level though

SiZeMaTTeRs · Mon, 27th-Sep-2010, 1:03 PM

Well .. i will have to go with Oxygen. What i always do to know when i'm improving or not is too always watch replays on 1v1 game that u played (ladder or customs) no matter if u win the match or loss the match. Study the replays, identify your mistakes and improve it next time, dun worry about APM that much in your matches, concentrated more on your timing and in-game response.

**nirvAnA** · Tue, 28th-Sep-2010, 12:24 AM

i think it mainly has to do with a players approach to learning, let me just characterise these groups of players into two groups - g#1 and g#2.

players in g#1 approach the game very analytically, they study the game and absoutely hate losing, which of course drives them to study the game even more. when they lose, they take a moment to reflect on why they lost, and what they could have done better. players in these groups imo are people like ice and glade. always after i beat ice, he takes a really long time to say gg. its not because he has "bad gg timing", but i believe its because hes reflecting on why he lost and what he could have done better, even at the end of the actual game itself, as at the end he always comments on his play like he should have gone this tech instead when he saw my units, or he miscalculated the timing and should have gone xxx faster etc. As a result, he learns something from every game he plays. These players also spend time going over their own replays figuring out why they lost and also slowly watching or rewatching key replays of good players with a learning approach, i.e testing himself if he would make x and x units in the same sitation and then sees if this top player makes the same, judging who will win the next battle before it happens, etc. these players constantly seek information for e.g searching forums for strategies they have trouble with and reading discussions. they often end up having good ladder records.

People in g#2 instead are more of the casual type and just want to have fun and continue playing the game. They are probably tired enough from work/school and just wanna sit back and enjoy their gaming expereince without that much study or indepth thinking, so they end up ploughing on by massing more games. they also tend to watch repalys by massing them as well, watching alot of them and at very fast speeds. Of course everyone wants to get better, but it takes effort. At the back of their mind they might think that they will subconciously learn and absorb all these new information and become better, but this is an approach i disagree with.

although g#2 might work for the minority of people, i believe the mindset in g#1 is far superior and helps increase your understanding of the game much more.

Because gamers in general are naturally lazy, and "just want to play/enjoy" the game, i would say most people belong in g#2. it takes alot more effort to sit back and think about the game and why you lost, which can be annoying and which is why most people do not do that.

It has also being in my expereince that players in g#1 tend to hate massing games because they prefer learning and thinking over repetition. Which is a shame because a mixture of g#1 learning approach and the massing game approach as in g#2 is the absoulte best combination to have.

i personally would encourge players who want to be good at this game to dedicate time to study it, as in be a part of g#1!

Quick Comments

	Nemo:	Clear !
	FS.Kezz:

zealous · Sat, 15th-Jun-2013, 7:32 AM

In line with nirvana's grp#1 learning as I have recalled in one seminar I attended highlights reflection as an important but neglected step in the process. Its not just about the "Do/Experience" its about what you will do after the experience

ToRXypha · Tue, 28th-Sep-2010, 9:57 AM

Thanks for that, i started in G#2 when i first got the game, (didnt play Beta) just to enjoy it and not be too in depth, i really enjoyed it and decided i want to get to diamond now.
Now i look at all my replays sometimes twice (sometimes i get distracted on a game I won by the battle instead of checking on my macroing) since doing so I've learnt how to time my pushes a little more (a little easier now with the game clock) when to harass and when to know the harrassing is costing me more then i'm gaining.

I've learnt I get distracted later mid game to end game and forget to keep on ther spawning larva and spreading creep. or occasionally i've left it to long for another round of scouting and get caught out by cloaked banshees (noticed is very hard to knock back as zerg if you are completely not ready for it).

Since i noticed these mistakes my game has definatly increased in skill.

Thanks for the advice

HuT · Tue, 28th-Sep-2010, 5:08 PM

Everybody does it, they wake up, ready for a day packed of 1v1's and the idea that they'll add a few hundred points onto their ladder score. But, after you lose 3 in a row, all the while using strategies that you have utilised that have been successful in the past all seem worthless now.

As a question to the general populace of these forums, when you hit a barrier, whether it be psychological or skill based that negatively impacts your gameplan and ability to win games you have won in the same manner before, how do you work to overcome it? Do you stick to the same strategy and try to refine it, or do you decide that a build or tactic is obsolete and forget it all together?

Share your views!

dtarchon · Tue, 28th-Sep-2010, 9:06 PM

My honest advice: You are too concerned with NOT losing. 3 losses in a row isnt that bad.

If it escalates to ten, then maybe you should take a break, do some stretching exercise or simply a nap to recover yr mental energy.

Other things you can do is to play a custom or team league game where a loss might be less painful for you and allow you to recover your confidence/refine yr skills so as to speak.

Losing is part of winning. Failure is a stepping stone to success. If you look at it this way, you will naturally progress forward.

And finally, If you are using the same strategy for the past 3 games, its time to change perhaps? and review what yr opponent did to defeat you.

**TAEdgE** · Wed, 29th-Sep-2010, 6:40 AM

This depends on how you are as a gamer though. I personally try to analyze why i lost and just get myself in the right condition to win a game to get some confidence back (after a losing streak start.)

I overcome it generally by simply just taking a break with simple reflection, listen to some music, if im listening to music when i play, turn it off, or vice versa... maybe watch an fpvod, or talk to a friend about it and just vent little frustrations (possibly if you lost to stuff you either never face, or always face, so it's a bit more annoying).

I think that playing through it is what the majority of players do though. Everyone loses. Losing is more helpful than winning for everything except confidence and ladder/tournament standing. It teaches you what you did wrong, and how you can overcome that little hole so that your overall game will be even stronger with each win.

Others i see overcoming it similarly, but maybe they just vent their anger (if it is a significant loss streak), taking a break, and simply coming back as if it never happened. I never really do that but i've seen some of my friends do it frequently. Just a simple break if you don't want to stress over any little ladder details or continuing confidence bumps.

**sheepy** · Wed, 29th-Sep-2010, 11:53 PM

I don't believe theres such a thing as a glass ceiling. If your not improving, its because you not doing it right.

When your watch your own loss replays, what you tend to find is that you are able to identify so many errors in your own gameplay. So many that sometimes its just shocking.

However, i noticed that most people i know tend to never watch or save their own loss replays, cause of the rage from losing ( i'm guilty of that too ) . And many people weirdly watch their own win replays, esp if they win against someone good. Its a really important habit to take a step back, look at your loss and think, what could i have done better? what can i do to make sure i avoid similar mistakes again?

TAhackdZ · Fri, 15th-Apr-2011, 9:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nGenHuT

Everybody does it, they wake up, ready for a day packed of 1v1's and the idea that they'll add a few hundred points onto their ladder score. But, after you lose 3 in a row, all the while using strategies that you have utilised that have been successful in the past all seem worthless now.

As a question to the general populace of these forums, when you hit a barrier, whether it be psychological or skill based that negatively impacts your gameplan and ability to win games you have won in the same manner before, how do you work to overcome it? Do you stick to the same strategy and try to refine it, or do you decide that a build or tactic is obsolete and forget it all together?

Share your views!

IMO builds, strats, and tactics never become obsolete. There will always be situations where builds we previously thought we're useless will shine, and vica versa.

Personally I don't tend to give up on a build or strat to easily. If I get a bunch of losses, I'll look at the build and see where I can fit something else in, or take something out.

TASlowHands · Thu, 29th-Dec-2011, 7:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SQLTt.HuT

Everybody does it, they wake up, ready for a day packed of 1v1's and the idea that they'll add a few hundred points onto their ladder score. But, after you lose 3 in a row, all the while using strategies that you have utilised that have been successful in the past all seem worthless now.

As a question to the general populace of these forums, when you hit a barrier, whether it be psychological or skill based that negatively impacts your gameplan and ability to win games you have won in the same manner before, how do you work to overcome it? Do you stick to the same strategy and try to refine it, or do you decide that a build or tactic is obsolete and forget it all together?

Share your views!

I always try and stick with my strats, i had a roach hydra corruptor build in ZvP which had me at more than 70% at one point around the mid diamond level. I only drops strats when they are outright unviable, i dropped roach hydra corruptor as masters toss for the most part tear it up.

I believe so long as you are a decent player mechanically you can do any strategy, thats why I am very harsh on myself even when i win at times, for example i decide to 2 base all in but have 3 missed injects at the end of the game, I scold myself. The only barrier I hit are mechanically not strategically because im pretty flexible and good at altering my builds. I only really feel happy with a win when i play a bit better than my average, apm soaring, creep everywhere and the like. But really it all comes down to mechanics and good old fashioned practise

Op I think you would benefit from having practise partners that are better than you. I often play with TAsolid who has crazy good TvZ and it always pushes me apm and mechanic wise playing him and I can actually feel myself getting better, even if I lose. Try and find someone that is just that little bit better than you and get them to give you a real challenge. The problem with just ladder is you play the same level of opponents struggling with the same issues as you.

ToRXypha · Mon, 4th-Oct-2010, 6:34 PM

Well it looks like i have been improving, my win ratio is going up now and i got promoted to platinum today, hopefully not much longer and I can get my way into diamond. Thanks again for the advice.