[Nemo]

Originally Posted by FuzzyLogic

As of Late i have been having a lot trouble Just over all playing the game I'm not really sure where I am going wrong, Just wondering if you guys could go over a replay and maybe give me me some tips to improve =)

this is of a recent game verse a Random who was Zerg I felt as if I was going well then sort of just lost not really sure why xD however im sure there is something super obvious.

Any help would be great =)

Watching the replay I saw quickly that you are higher level so I checked your profil : http://sea.battle.net/sc2/en/profile.../1/FuzzyLogic/ so better helpers than me can know there is a job for them.

Replay Analysis

• You're build order (photon expand) seems very clean to me. I don't see big macro mistakes (supply block for 10 sec at 1rst pylon) apart from the fact that you only harvest from 3 extractors for a very long time. That seems odd cause you cut Drones at saturation and then there were no reason not to harvest from the last gas extractor.
• 13:53 : You have 1740/400 gas in bank, that's not the good time to let your macro slip because zerg was on 2 bases and All-in was possible or, like he did, over expanding to over macro you.
• Your obs have been sniped, you're very blind when you push, without any AOE. You don't know army composition of your opponent at that moment and you have immortals that are good against Roach only. Why not make hallucination to scout ?
• You push with 83 army food against 100 and after battle you are 53 food against 72. That's still a victory cause you destroyed more than 2K more resources.
• 16:30 : You have kept the center of the map, the Xelnaga, you have 3K minerals in bank, and opponent is double expanding (you don't know that because of lack of scouting). Anyway you have to spend your money. Double expand + 2 to 4 more gateways would have been a good idea IMO.
• 18:00 : Instead of expanding you have pushed without really replenishing your army. You're now 30 army food behind, 2 expand behind and your opponent have catch a bit on the resources destroyed and you now have 4K minerals in bank. I think that that was your key mistake. Not enough scouting of his 2ble expand, and over extending with this push.
• 20:00 : 9 cannons at your 3rd that was too much and bad placed, the majority didn't protect your mineral line. You have 117 overall food. Put your minerals in units. Throw down gateways and zealots/Stalkers if your need your gas for something else.
• 25:00 : Your Deathball is now frighting, thanks to Archons and good army composition, he attacks you and get trounced. But his macro has been quite good and his bases are working well now.
• 28:00 he tries another attack and catch you off guard. He manages to destroy your army and you loose.

Conclusion

• You forget to harvest from one gas at the beginning;
• You make your third too late (when you should have taken your 4rth);
• You didn't scout enough the potential expands of the map. He was able to hide his 4rth for too long;
• You didn't spend enough your money in the middle of the game. You should have put down gateways.

I hope this will be a bit helpful.

That will be probably my last Replay Analisis for 3 weeks as I'm going in vacation without good Internet connexion, so Apth, I might not be able to help you in this task during this period.

Cheers !

Quick Comments

nirvAnA:

[Ascel]

Thanks you =D that was a lot of help. Just so Many little things I didn't see or think off.

Thanks for your help Mate =D Ill try and not be terrible now xD

[Nemo]

Originally Posted by FuzzyLogic

Thanks you =D that was a lot of help. Just so Many little things I didn't see or think off.

Thanks for your help Mate =D Ill try and not be terrible now xD

You're welcome and you're not terrible at all ! As you say, many little things to do but the basics are very strong. Even GM get supply-blocked.

Don't hesitate to post again if you want help.

[TragicHero]

Originally Posted by Nemo

Watching the replay I saw quickly that you are higher level so I checked your profil : http://sea.battle.net/sc2/en/profile.../1/FuzzyLogic/ so better helpers than me can know there is a job for them.

Replay Analysis

• You're build order (photon expand) seems very clean to me. I don't see big macro mistakes (supply block for 10 sec at 1rst pylon) apart from the fact that you only harvest from 3 extractors for a very long time. That seems odd cause you cut Drones at saturation and then there were no reason not to harvest from the last gas extractor.
• 13:53 : You have 1740/400 gas in bank, that's not the good time to let your macro slip because zerg was on 2 bases and All-in was possible or, like he did, over expanding to over macro you.
• Your obs have been sniped, you're very blind when you push, without any AOE. You don't know army composition of your opponent at that moment and you have immortals that are good against Roach only. Why not make hallucination to scout ?
• You push with 83 army food against 100 and after battle you are 53 food against 72. That's still a victory cause you destroyed more than 2K more resources.
• 16:30 : You have kept the center of the map, the Xelnaga, you have 3K minerals in bank, and opponent is double expanding (you don't know that because of lack of scouting). Anyway you have to spend your money. Double expand + 2 to 4 more gateways would have been a good idea IMO.
• 18:00 : Instead of expanding you have pushed without really replenishing your army. You're now 30 army food behind, 2 expand behind and your opponent have catch a bit on the resources destroyed and you now have 4K minerals in bank. I think that that was your key mistake. Not enough scouting of his 2ble expand, and over extending with this push.
• 20:00 : 9 cannons at your 3rd that was too much and bad placed, the majority didn't protect your mineral line. You have 117 overall food. Put your minerals in units. Throw down gateways and zealots/Stalkers if your need your gas for something else.
• 25:00 : Your Deathball is now frighting, thanks to Archons and good army composition, he attacks you and get trounced. But his macro has been quite good and his bases are working well now.
• 28:00 he tries another attack and catch you off guard. He manages to destroy your army and you loose.

Conclusion

• You forget to harvest from one gas at the beginning;
• You make your third too late (when you should have taken your 4rth);
• You didn't scout enough the potential expands of the map. He was able to hide his 4rth for too long;
• You didn't spend enough your money in the middle of the game. You should have put down gateways.

I hope this will be a bit helpful.

That will be probably my last Replay Analisis for 3 weeks as I'm going in vacation without good Internet connexion, so Apth, I might not be able to help you in this task during this period.

Cheers !

Thanks again for the feedback Nemo! Your analysis is greatly appreciated.
I'll keep all of your points in mind in my PvZ games.
- I've been experimenting on Cruncher-esque 9-10gate pushes on 2 bases and it seems to work :|. Punishes droning zergs really well!

[ToRPandarine]

I'm going to post here cause itll be nice to see what high league players say abt my gameplay..a word of warning, i dont follow builds to the dot, do weird things with my units and the first two of the replays im goin to put up are just plain facepalm... :/

edit: 5 replays for you to either cringe or laugh at! :/ like i said, the first two are just plain dumb. the other 3 i felt it was ok except the last one. a note is attached with slightly more details.

as a lowly silver player, i will greatly appreciate any flak regarding how i play cause i wanna improve

[Nemo]

Originally Posted by TragicHero

Thanks again for the feedback Nemo! Your analysis is greatly appreciated.
I'll keep all of your points in mind in my PvZ games.
- I've been experimenting on Cruncher-esque 9-10gate pushes on 2 bases and it seems to work :|. Punishes droning zergs really well!

Your welcome ! I'm very glad it's useful. Aggressive builds are good, that's more action in the game.

Originally Posted by ThePandarine

I'm going to post here cause itll be nice to see what high league players say abt my gameplay..a word of warning, i dont follow builds to the dot, do weird things with my units and the first two of the replays im goin to put up are just plain facepalm... :/

edit: 5 replays for you to either cringe or laugh at! :/ like i said, the first two are just plain dumb. the other 3 i felt it was ok except the last one. a note is attached with slightly more details.

as a lowly silver player, i will greatly appreciate any flak regarding how i play cause i wanna improve

Game 1
Replay analysis

• Orbital command 1rst priority ASAP after Rax finishes
• All Building must produce at all time (rax was not producing)
• Exit your marines from your bunker to defend your SCVs when attacked from behind (by reaper this time). Marines are your first line of defense in the beginning of game against all thing apart Blue flame hellions, make them without stopping and send them where your attacked;
• Don't panic when attacked by reapers or dropped, defend calmly.

Conclusion:
You lost because you panicked a bit when attacked by the reapers.

Game 2
Replay analysis

• Good reaction when seeing a pool first, wall, and bunker.
• Don't suicide your hellions. Harassing is good but learn to micro them to make them last because now they are not doing enough damage. You lost more resources than him during your harrass, that's not good.
• When the mutas are out, time for the hellion to get back to base for the future doom mecha push
• Transition to mech OK, but when you push, push with all your army.

Game 3
Replay analysis
If you're gonna do such a early push, make sure to make big damages. Even if your making a bunker, your marines and other SCV must make damage. You were in his base with 3 marines, 3 SCV against a mere zealot and you allowed a forge then 3 cannons to be warped in. That's way to passive.

Game 4
Replay analysis

• Scout after your depot (or after your rax), not before.
• Make sure to know when he expand, that's more important than controlling the xelnaga.
• Always make units from your buildings (forgot marines from your rax), that's as important for Terran as making SCV
• You suicided again your hellions and committed too much to them without scouting a huge roach force. Roach ask for tanks and / or Marauders

Conclusion:
You lost because you didn't make enough units. When he pushed you he was 50 army food ahead. Make units at all time from all your buildings !

Game 5
Replay analysis

• Bad supply block at 19 food
• Make units always, always, always.

Conclusion:
Your opponent was dreadfull, no many thing to learn from here.

General conclusion

Concentrate on the basic macro mechanisms of the game, do them well and you will improve. You know what to do each time, you simply don't master the mechanics to do it well. Play, play and play again, you will improve.

Cheers !

Quick Comments

nirvAnA:

[Apth]

Originally Posted by ThePandarine

5 replays

Before I dive in, note that there are basic things you should be looking to improve - most importantly,

• Scouting
• Not getting supply blocked
• Constantly making units and SCVs

Aside from that, here's my take on your games.

Game 1
You went straight to Battlecruisers without scouting your opponent. You had no idea if your opponent was expanding, if BC's were a good option vs his unit composition, or where his tech was going after his Reaper opening.
Scout your opponent.

Game 2
Once static defense goes down, the bunker rush is over. Spines and Cannons both outrange bunkers. Unless you're still in range of some production structures, pack up and go home. You lost this game because you were pressing an advantage you no longer had.

Game 3
You got lucky this game. Your opponent's hesitation to capitalise on your turtle resulted in you being able to a-move a bunch of Thors into his base for the win.

Your expansion, IMO, went down a little bit late. You put on some good pressure towards the start of the game with your Hellions, but didn't take advantage of this pressure. Expanding behind Hellion harass is a good idea - your opponent will be busy making Roaches, putting down Spines, and making a good show of cowering.
If you see you have an advantage, make use of it.

Game 4
Your opponent out-macro'd you. At 14:30 the supplies were 135 to 87 in his favour, allowing him to a-move through your base and win. He out-macro'd you because he was on two bases for most of the game, while you were on one.

If you see your opponent has expanded, you need to do one of two things - be aggressive, or expand yourself. Doing neither allows your opponent to take an economic lead unchecked.

Game 5
You made units and attacked, and your opponent GG'd. Well done.

[ToRPandarine]

Originally Posted by Nemo

5 replay analysis

Originally Posted by Apth

5 replay analysis

I agree with both of you that I need to improve my macro skills as other players have told me many times over. In the past few games, I've tried nothing except macro hard, making sure I produce units though I still float a stupid number of resources when I'm attacking, responding to something or it goes into a late game situation.

Scouting has been an issue for me as I'm reluctant to either waste a unit or use a scan. I know using buildings to scout is viable but to me its a tad bit slow. What's your take on that?

I have no replays of current to show as it has mostly been nothing but mass Marines and Marauders (the easiest thing I know I can constantly produce without screwing it up) sweeping across the field though I had a few losses yesterday (this is what happens when you stop for even TWO days from SC2 and forget some basic macro lol) but I was at a CC and forgot to save the replays to a USB.

I hope I can post a replay one day where my macro is acceptable

Thanks again to Nemo and Apth for the analysis!

glhf people!

[Nemo]

Originally Posted by ThePandarine

Scouting has been an issue for me as I'm reluctant to either waste a unit or use a scan. I know using buildings to scout is viable but to me its a tad bit slow. What's your take on that?
I hope I can post a replay one day where my macro is acceptable

Thanks again to Nemo and Apth for the analysis!

glhf people!

You're welcome.

To scout :

• 1 marine on each Xelnaga (or the important ones). A SCV or marine patrolling the potential expands of your opponent.
• For enemy base, drops are a very good way of scouting. Hellion drop to chase SCV and scout in the same process as the enemy drones will flee and you are going to chase them in the enemy base.
• Against Zerg a Viking paroling the map for Overlord hunting and flying around enemy base is good too.

[TragicHero]

Hi it's me again (I know you guys might be sick of me already lol). Laddering has been okay. I've been improving against Terran and Protoss after watching HwangSin and ZenexPuzzle's streams lately. Their aggressive builds have been helping me a lot.

I've only been having trouble against Z. The only ways I could actually win is by fake 4 gating or a 2 base 10 gate timing push or something cheesey like that.

So I've decided to go for a more stable build, the MC PvZ air build (from Day9).

The replay I'm attaching is a custom map against a Masters player. I'm not actually really sure of the build order and timings of this build... Just following my instincts. Though I feel that my void rays are really slow to come out?

Also was trying my best to macro as hard as I can but can't seem to push out that much units. Hopefully you guys can look through my replay and see where I can actually improve my play for this build.

Thanks!


http://www.sc2sea.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=398

[Nemo]

Originally Posted by TragicHero

Hi it's me again (I know you guys might be sick of me already lol). Laddering has been okay. I've been improving against Terran and Protoss after watching HwangSin and ZenexPuzzle's streams lately. Their aggressive builds have been helping me a lot.

I've only been having trouble against Z. The only ways I could actually win is by fake 4 gating or a 2 base 10 gate timing push or something cheesey like that.

So I've decided to go for a more stable build, the MC PvZ air build (from Day9).

The replay I'm attaching is a custom map against a Masters player. I'm not actually really sure of the build order and timings of this build... Just following my instincts. Though I feel that my void rays are really slow to come out?

Also was trying my best to macro as hard as I can but can't seem to push out that much units. Hopefully you guys can look through my replay and see where I can actually improve my play for this build.

Thanks!


http://www.sc2sea.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=398

I'm not a expert of this build, but I have found a interesting post about it here : http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...st_id=10476014

Through this discussion, I think your first Void Ray was not late since you make your stargate after your 1rst gate. Some people make the VR far after apparently.

Your opponent did a blind spore counter and tried to put up his third even after he saw your VR. The normal Zerg counter seems to be a strong 2 base agression because your ground army should be weak at this time. So you forced a cancel of the third, forced the queens to travel, force hydras and spores. Even if you did nearly no damage, the opening was still a decent sucess because you disturbed his macro and forced a tech path that suited well your Colossi transition.

Replay analysis

• You cut your probe from 4m45 to 5m30 (at 22 probes). You should not cut your probes when doing this build that aim at giving you an economic advantage for the middle game
• At ~7m30 you have 100 energy on your Nexus. You should absolutely use more your Chronoboost and especially on probes. You need money quickly to saturate your bases and build units during your push.
• Your first VR is out at 6m57sec and you begin another at ~8m00sec making a production facility idle this soon in the game seems under-optimal for me. If you can't make that stargate produce at all time, shouldn't you make a 3 gate expand stargate then ? If your first VR is alone, chase overlords, they give you 100 minerals and a larva when you destroy them. Add that you will disturb injects after that, that's really something that can hurt the zerg.
• 10m00 : You have 160 Nexus energy, and a bad supply block
• 12m15s : Robo finish, 13:00 first unit produced (and you have the resources before)
• 16m53 : That's the moment your strategy pays off. You're behind in army food but he has no Infestor or Corruptors, then you destroy his gold and his Roach Hydra army with excellent forcefields and use of Colossi. 18:23, you're ahead in army food and both of you have 3 bases. But he has 27 larvae and 2K+ minerals. He launches the Corruptors.
• 19:49 : Same army food but he has no more larvae (5) and 300 resources. That was time for the last battle in front of his gold. He takes you out of position, you have no more force fields, he has far better upgrades, you lose badly this battle and the game.

Conclusion
You still has improvement to make on your macro and especially :

• Use of Chronoboost
• Building from all your facilities at all time

The build is well executed and gave you interesting advantages (scout, force hydras, no or late infestors) but in term of timing You should make units from it until you have 3 VR and 1 phoenix. Kill the maximum of Ovies you can.

Quick Comments

nirvAnA:

[iM yang]

Any Protoss players feel free to dump a replay. I shalt be lending my hand for ze replay analysees.

Quick Comments

Apth:

The knowledge. It fills us. It is neat.

[ToRPandarine]

And I'm back for more thrashing! :P These are my 15th to 20th games which I have I believe I win 4 and lose 2.

Game 15 (vs Bronze Top 8/4v4 Gold) is a 30+ minute long TvT which eventually ends up to become a Star Wars fight IMO.

Game 16 (Silver) is a large force of Marauders and Marines steam rolling in.

Game 17 (Silver) is a en masse BC group that just smashed me to bits.

Game 18 (Silver/Gold last season) is a large tank force with a few bio units.

Game 19 (Silver/Silver Top 8 last season) is a TvZ that I thought I was going to lose but I have no clue why I held.

Game 20 (Silver Top 8) is a retarded BC fight.

As you can see, I'm kinda trying to get my macro up and kinda forfeiting my scouting to be able to concentrate on it. You may flame me away for that :/

Like always, harsh criticism is appreciated. I would like a favor and know if my macro has improved or is just as horrendous as it was when you first saw my earlier 5 replays.

Thanks again and GLHF!

[ToNYT]

Hey guys this is my first time posting.
i recently switched to zerg from terran and just played a match against my bsg clan leader synchro
who started off as zerg. I am in gold league and synchro has yet to play his placement for season 3 but everytime we would play it would end up me being the loser. but this particular match is the longest game we have ever had and Synchro and my self are wondering if we could have some good zvz ers analyse this replay as we would like to know what went wrong for us and what went really well. Of course i know my faults but i would like to know more on how i could improve and so does synchro
You can find the play here: http://www.sc2replayed.com/replay-videos/11698
if there are any zergs out there that could help us out that would be great for both of us
thanks for taking your time to read this post,watch the replay and reply to this thread.
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replay-videos/11698
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replay-videos/11698
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replay-videos/11698
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replay-videos/11698

ToNYT

[Maynarde]

Hey man there's actually a replay feedback / analysis thread. Probably a better place to start than making a new one.

http://www.sc2sea.com/showthread.php?t=202&page=8

See ya there

Quick Comments

ToRPandarine:

it was good cause it gave me the lols :)

[ToRPandarine]

Originally Posted by Maynarde

Hey man there's actually a replay feedback / analysis thread. Probably a better place to start than making a new one.

http://www.sc2sea.com/showthread.php?t=202&page=8

See ya there

huh...didnt know it led to there...which is...rite....back here :l lol

[Apth]

Originally Posted by ToNYT

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replay-videos/11698

I find it difficult to go through a replay from both perspectives, so I've done my analysis from yours.

Scouting
Your Overlord spread was good, but you didn't scout your opponent's tech. At 14 minutes, you still didn't have eyes on any of his tech buildings.
While you can make inferences about what tech path your opponent is taking by looking at the units he makes, sacking an Overlord or a couple of lings is always a good idea.

Passivity
Although the game started getting scrappy about the 15 minute mark, before then there was no reason for you to have your army sitting in your base just chillin'.
You don't have to fully commit to an attack every time you move out of your base - leaving your base gives you a bit of map control, gives you an idea of how heavily your opponent is committing to units (important in ZvZ) and puts pressure on your opponent.
Even if you walk to his base, see you'd lose the engagement and walk straight back, this is better than just sitting around.

Responding to Expansions
When your opponent expands, he is gaining an economic advantage. You need to respond to this in one of two ways -

• Expand, thus evening the economic playing field, or
• Be aggressive, taking advantage of the fact that your opponent has invested into an expansion and not units or tech.

While you wern't *that* far behind your opponent in terms of expansion timings, he was consistently expanding before you the whole game. This gave him an edge.

Creep Spread
Your opponent spread creep almost right to your base. This had two effects.

• Your opponent had more vision of the map than you did
• There was a patch of non-creeped ground outside your base that your opponent consistently made you fight on, while he sat happily on his creep spread.

In this case, I would have spread a bit of creep to even the playing field.

You didn't hotkey your macro hatch
Not sure if you noticed this or not. You had almost a page full of larvae sitting at your macro hatch, because you were consistently injecting, but because it wasn't hotkeyed you wern't spending it.
There were a few points in the game where you were sitting on 1-1.5k minerals and no gas - those larvae as speedlings could have put some serious pressure on your opponent, and possibly changed the outcome of the game.

Overall
You and your opponent played very well. No gaping flaws in your mechanics or decision making that I could make out, and while you made some positioning errors, I don't think these were significant enough to have had an impact on the outcome of the game.

ggwp

[ToNYT]

[QUOTE=Apth;30821]
Passivity
Although the game started getting scrappy about the 15 minute mark, before then there was no reason for you to have your army sitting in your base just chillin'.
You don't have to fully commit to an attack every time you move out of your base - leaving your base gives you a bit of map control, gives you an idea of how heavily your opponent is committing to units (important in ZvZ) and puts pressure on your opponent.
Even if you walk to his base, see you'd lose the engagement and walk straight back, this is better than just sitting around.

Hey thanks for the analysis, im just wondering when should i be aggressive
because i am always never sure when to attack and when i attack, what do i aim to acheive when i attack, like do i aim to just trade armies?.

thanks for putting the time to analyse my reply

ToNYT

[Apth]

Originally Posted by ToNYT

Hey thanks for the analysis, im just wondering when should i be aggressive
because i am always never sure when to attack and when i attack, what do i aim to acheive when i attack, like do i aim to just trade armies?

Here are some 'triggers' that you can use to time your attacks.

Upgrades
When an upgrade finishes - Roach speed, +1/+2 etc, it's a good time to move out and see what kind of damage you can do.

Expanding
Expanding behind a push is standard. While your opponent deals with your push, you get your expo up, droned and crawler'd.

If your opponent expands
If you aren't in a position to expand in response, or if you think you could do some damage, there's usually a good window.

Here is something very important to note.

Your attack does not have to do damage.
I'm going to say that again, because it's important.
Your attack DOES NOT have to do damage.

'Pushing' your opponent doesn't necessarily mean that you kill any units or buildings. It can be as simple as moving your units into his sight range and walking away.

Keeping your opponent in his base, denying scouting and map control by having your units out on the map and not sitting next to your natural, and forcing your opponent to spend resources on defenses instead of econ or tech puts you in a wonderful position. You don't need to actually do any damage to achieve this.

If you subscribe to the Grandmaster Manual, there's a section on the Psychological aspect of gameplay that goes into this sort of thing a bit more. It's very helpful.

Quick Comments

Nemo:

This is it. What's important is being active with your units.

[iM yang]

So confused, Maynarde. =o