[ryrymanpie]

Hi,

I am a gold zerg player. So despite the title of this post i am aware that EVERYTHING in my game play needs to be fixed but that is not why i am writing this post.

As of late i am on a massive losing streak, over the last win loss ratio of 2:15 at the moment. I am not sure what exactly is making me lose all these games, ZvP i always go for 3 base regardless of the protoss build however if my ovie does not scout a fe i change it around a bit to stay safe. ZvZ i go for early ling pressure followed by a roach push. ZvT at the moment i am not really having any problems but that's only because almost everyone dies to my timing attack at 7:30-8 mins (8 roaches; 20+ lings).

ANYWAY i will attach a replay of the ZvP and ZvZ match ups. I don't FEEL as though my macro is terrible but please keep in mind, in the ZvZ match up i am not trying to play economical i am trying to put up lots of pressure and finish the game early.

I honestly feel as though there is a few particular things that i do not know about or am not aware of that i am doing completely wrong and is costing me countless games or at least i hope that's the case. Please don't respond to this thread if you're going to tear apart my build, although my build is NOT optimal and timings are off etc i refuse the believe that at a gold level such things change the game perhaps a GM and masters level but certainly not gold. I am aware that my lack of scouting defiantly is a contributing factor to my losses and i am trying to work on it.

ZvP
http://sc2rep.com/replays/%28Z%29Ryr...8P%29Zim/21231

ZvZ
http://sc2rep.com/replays/%28Z%29vop...rymanpie/21233

ZvZ
http://sc2rep.com/replays/%28Z%29DaB...rymanpie/21232

I am looking for very specific replay analysis to the point where you can give me a strategy to address the issue not just identify the issue. I particularly don't like it when i am told, "Just focus on your queens the entire game and keep there energy low", yes, very doable, but practical? no.

Anyway, thank you for taking the time to read this and i hope i can get some help because i defiantly need it!!

[ToRSpookToR]

http://www.sc2sea.com/replays.php?do=viewreplay&id=2089

veto the shit out of this map now
your build is off in TvT you usually want 3 rax 2 reactor 1 techlab you should be in time to get stim+shields by the time, if you know he is meching it can be excused but you saw 3 rax!!! fix your gas timings
you should be fighting for that tower
dont make marauders in marine tank vs marine tank
didnt put scvs in gas for ages (natural)
you should be positioned in the choke to your third and nat i am at 10 mins now (also put 6 marines in your marine for drops with a sensor tower AGAIN TAKE THE BLOODY TOWER HOW ARE YOU SAFE
ok this is 100% the most important thing in the world when 1 rax fe or variations of it YOU NEED TO ADD PRODUCTION @ 11 MINS SO IMPORTANT SOOSOSOSOSOSOSO IMPORTANT 20 seconds late you can lose games usually 2 rax and a factory a little later(its hard if you go faster factory your ups will be slower depends on your style)
OH MY GIDDY AUNT YOU FORGOT BLOODY STIM (@14mins now) GET THAT SHIT NOW
holy bat man production is 5 mins late you need to defend your main too turrets marines censor towers
holy balls you have a contain 20 mins on 2 base just camp that shit take a 4th AND GET 4 FACTORYS if he breaks out you need 6ish it tanks AND FAST to hold
OH MY GODD HE IS OUT WHAT THE BALLS YOUR UPGRADES

on upgrades usually with this type of build you go +1 attack then +1 armour when +1 armour is half done add another armoury and eb when they are done you should start 2-1 3-2 then +3 armour, a good way to remember your upgrades is to hotkey them i personally hotkey my ebs with my rax tab then get them upgrades i see other people put them on their own hotkey or even with their ccs up to you.

VERY VERY VERY ROUGH didnt spend that long sorry.

Main points
- no marauders
- fix gas timings
- defend main from drops you got lucky this game
- add production at 11 mins with this build (2nd fact when you get 5th and 6th gases [3rd fact if you want it])
- upgrades work out hotkeys or a method to not forget them! his upgrades were way better than yours unacceptable
- you are on 4 base he is contained on 2 GET MORE FACTS when he breaks out you need more tanks and fastttttt (assuming you added the fact you want about 4-5 facts in this situation)

hope this helped

[ToRSpookToR]

another one for papa
he had a wall go home no need to stay there make sure no addon then you can go home dont risk losing scv for no reason
your build makes no sense you push at 9 mins he has more bio and stim or shields you lose or you push and he has tanks and you lose, now you are very behind. I suggest marine hellion medivac if you want to pressure this way.
10 depot
12 gas
13 rax
reactor on rax
fact
when fact 100% starport
push with 6-8 marines 3 hellions and a medivac elevator into main do what ever you want much better than this build i will give you a replay
maynarde workers you should have 2 lines on each base (16) on minerals that is.
get faster medivacs 15 mins you dont have a reactored starport for medivacs tut tut
you are on 1 fact 1 starport and 2 rax you should add 3 rax when on 2 base
pushing down here was a mistake i feel you should have dropped with a medivac and sieged up and defended you just denied his third base so you should work on getting an army to defeat his comes with experience in when knowning whether to engage or not.
in this situation putting a sensor tower just behind where zerg puts his overlords is so helpful to know if he is going for your third or nat.
no defense in main he drops your main with 4 tanks and marines GG

ill just play a TvT doing that build i talked about and give you the rep hang tight

http://www.sc2sea.com/replays.php?do=viewreplay&id=2095 here is rep its just vs ai but you get the idea not so good on daybreak though follow it up with expo/banshee/tank push w/e you want

[TidaL]

Hi guys,
Recently I've been losing to alot of all-ins

Here's one in PvT
Its a 1-1-1 push (I think thats what its called)

Any help would be great!

Replay: http://drop.sc/280802

Thanks

[TidaL]

vs
Here's another replay of the same 1-1-1 push

Besides getting supply blocked before he hits any advice

Replay 2:http://drop.sc/281038

Again any help would be great

Ty

[mGGAequitas]

Originally Posted by ETL.TidaL

http://drop.sc/280802

mkay so you miss a few probes early on because you scout early and don't adjust or sometimes you just forget.

Way too much chronoboost saved up, spend it on something, anything, if something is making; chronoboost it, doesn't matter what it is.

You should probably cut probes at 16 on minerals not 18 if you are going for an all in.

you went for collosus bay but no collossus? gotta make no sentries and very few stalkers to be able to afford it.
your build doesn't make too much sense. 3gate robo then bay but you aren't really rushing to collossus or immortals, you only actually get one obs from the robo (425/375 for one obs). you should be getting the robo and bay a lot sooner then add on other gates then go attack with your all in.
you pull all your probes and you die, coz you have all this money invested in tech and you never utilize it
don't engage like how you did: forcefield and fall back, when you are out of forcefields force him to engage while in the choke so you limit his armies effectiveness (see 300).
collossus probably woulda helped if you started making them as soon as your bay finished. you have to cut gateway units to afford the robo units as they are stronger you ahve to prioritize them more.

[mGGAequitas]

Originally Posted by ETL.TidaL

http://drop.sc/281038

your build was a lot better this time, still missing probes and save up too much chrono

the supply block was pretty bad, the collossus was late to start, you are floating a lot of minerals, you should be up to like 5 gates by now making like 80-90% zealots with a few stalkers and maybe 1 or 2 sentries.

dont pull ur probes so early absolutely no point.

vs a 1-1-1 you want to delay the attack as much as possible, you rush out to die, you have to buy some time, retreat wait for ur collossus a few more warp ins, then when you are ready you pop a guardian shield and go.

ur forcefields also did not help you. you have to place them so it traps his marines in and blocks some of his marines. so right in the middle of his army is good

[TidaL]

@Aequitas
Thanks for the tips!

What would be the optimal unit composition against the 1-1-1 push
I am unsure wat to build once/if i scout it

[mGGAequitas]

lots of 'stuff' in most cases. there are so many variations there is no one good composition

chargelot archon imo works well against most of the more common 1-1-1 compositions, the charge combined with the ff from the tanks kills marines really quick.

But just focus on macro and you should be all right

Quick Comments

TidaL:

Thanks

[ACX]

PVP
I don't know how to deal with chargelot/archons, I don't exactly know what composition I need to best them in the early-mid game stage. I was told to make choke points with buildings but what if they show up on my door without warning?

Replay: http://drop.sc/283963

I should've guessed that my opponent was going chargelots because going blink stalkers on Daybreak isn't really effective but he did hide his Templar Archives so I couldn't scout it.

I feel I could've made a proxy pylon and warp-in zealots to harass his mineral line.

What other viable strategies are there to deal with chargelot/archons?

[mGGAequitas]

Originally Posted by Krnx

Replay: http://drop.sc/283963

you should really put your name in the post or in your profile page on sc2sea coz how else are people supposed to know that you are Spirit?

first of all you cut way too many probes for taking an expo

6:50 you see a forward pylon in a vulnerable position so is definetly gonna be attacking you soon. This is where you should cut probes (you are behind a lot of probes already though) and drop some more production buildings since you are 2gate robo, you should add on at least 2 gates right away.

7:20 your obs sees 3 zealots and a sentry
and at 7:45 you see he has 4 gates and a twilight, possible things he could be doing: blink and chargelot archon. However it is far too late for blink and you saw zealots so that eliminates blink and leaves only charge/archon. (note: could be archons from either dts or hts. only difference is you need an obs at base which you have anyway)

So now that you know what's coming you know have to defend it. As you know you have to wall off fully against this attack and build only range units. it's unlikely you could defend your natural (on this map) so wall off at the top of your main's ramp. He can't bust up your ramp and you tech to collossus. A warp prism may also work well in putting pressure back on him as he has his army at your natural so nothing to defend. That being said a warpin of 4 chargelots is pretty good defence against whatever you warp in to harass.

All that being said, you held off his first attack ok, could perhaps have microed it slightly better but decent enough that you are ahead.

The problem comes when you are late on your warpins so when his next attack comes you have slightly less army then you should. Also spend your chronoboost better.

Sacrificing the nexus was a poor decision with the probes you would have been able to hold him off fairly easily

that engagment in the middle is the final blow, again your missing warp ins means your army is at quite a significant disadvantage now and chargelots do a lot better in the open like that as they surround your army and do tonnes of damage.

Quick Comments

	xGKingdelete:	good work here
	syfChase:	Aequitas imba analyser

[ACX]

Thanks for the insight aeq. Yeah, after watching the replay i felt that i could've defended by expo with my army + probes.

[Seffy]

http://drop.sc/284249 - mGGxJieun (me) vs a platinum player, PvP.

My first game for today, and somewhat I won despite being out supplied just about the whole game (he had more workers and army size). I actually think I should've lost this game because I really was doing bad imo.

I don't actually know how I won aside from the fact that at one point I had a nice colo spread (I think)..
But, my macro and micro were both slipping fairly bad and I'd like to know what can I do to hold this sort of build that he had done better (it was mainly zealot and colossus based), and would I be able to predict this build earlier on in the game?

Thanks in advance. ^^

[xGKingdelete]

Originally Posted by SecretJieun

http://drop.sc/284249 - mGGxJieun (me) vs a platinum player, PvP.

My first game for today, and somewhat I won despite being out supplied just about the whole game (he had more workers and army size). I actually think I should've lost this game because I really was doing bad imo.

I don't actually know how I won aside from the fact that at one point I had a nice colo spread (I think)..
But, my macro and micro were both slipping fairly bad and I'd like to know what can I do to hold this sort of build that he had done better (it was mainly zealot and colossus based), and would I be able to predict this build earlier on in the game?

Thanks in advance. ^^

Technically you should only post replays where you lose (I think).


Scouting
You were out supplied because he expanded minutes before you. Make sure you scout if he expands or not, and decide whether you want to punish it or expand yourself. If you sit back on one base without putting on any pressure, he will get ahead. In this game it looks like you were scared by the warp prism drop and didn't expand because of that. Just remember it's only 4 zealots in there. You can just keep a few stalkers and a zealot or two in your mineral line to deny it while the rest of your army can secure the expansion.

would I be able to predict this build earlier on in the game?

What he did wasn't a "build order" that you can scout in the early game. It was a midgame army composition. Most players will go for a collosus zealot based army in the midgame (after 2 bases), and you have to do some midgame scouting to confirm this with your observer. If you're both on two bases, go to his base and check to see what his robo is building. If he has 2 robos it's a dead giveaway that he's massing colossus. Or you could just look at his army with a suicide zealot scout.


Anyway, you won because in macro PvP there's this rule "First to attack loses". It's true. In this game, your opponent attacked your third and kept on getting the worse engagement because his zealots were clumped up and couldn't get to your army.

I'm not sure how to clearly address all of your concerns so I'll just tell you everything you need to know instead.

Once both players are on two base, the player who gets colossus will win. Colossus are just the only reliable unit to use in the mid and lategame. There are chargelot archon timings that can beat it, but these are countered by building a wall of gateways and having colossus behind them. If both players go colossus, the guy who attacks loses. This is because unit spread and positioning is incredibly important with units that do crazy splash damage like colossus.

Once both players have about 7-8 colossi, the first to get archons can hit a timing and win, but it's not guaranteed. Archons, like colossus, do a ton of splash damage. But the more important thing is their ability to tank colossus volleys and not die. Zealots will die within seconds of a battle, and if they don't have archons to match yours, you will have a front line of archons and he will only have colossi left. If both players have colossus and archons, the guy who attacks loses

Once both players have about 7-8 colossi and archons in the mix, the first to get a mothership will win. Most of the time. A mothership probably won't be necessary in your games; having a colossus archon ball and denying his bases while securing your own economy is a better way to play in your league.

The most important thing in macro PvP is positioning. If you can draw his army out of position with a warp prism drop or something like that, you might be able to kill a base or his army if he comes back. If you can set up a flank when he moves out, you should win. If he attacks into your defensive concave and you have similar supply, you should win.

I'd like to know what can I do to hold this sort of build

So in summary, do the same build but be the defender. Remember, first to attack loses (unless you pull his army out of position with a drop). hope this helps

[Seffy]

Originally Posted by xGKingdelete

Technically you should only post replays where you lose (I think).

Originally Posted by Apth

Try to post replays of losses - it's difficult to critique your play if you win.

Yep you're technically right. :3

Short and sweet, you've given really good information with your reply. So defending is the way to go in macro PvP then, works for me since I'm mainly a defensive player.

Yeah the warp prism drop did indeed put me off quite hard. I'll just make sure to automatically have some units defending the mineral line and have the rest allow me to secure an expansion from here on in.

I didn't really intend to do a gateway wall on the 3rd; just decided to place it as such. Didn't think it'd be very helpful so I'll try to do that more often.

Thank you for giving some of your time to help a fellow player out. I highly appreciate it.

Quick Comments

xGKingdelete:

np, gl hf!

[Apth]

Hey dudes and dudettes, wouldn't mind a hand with this one.

I've recently switched to Toss so there will probably be a decent few holes, but what I'm most interested in is my decision making.

I feel like I should have done something fundamentally different that game - there are probably a bunch of things I need to improve on (and feel free to point them out), but I'd like to know what decision I made or didn't make that resulted in that loss.

Cheers yo.

Gold Toss: http://www.sc2sea.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=796

Quick Comments

	Malice:	I'll do this when I get home in about an hour ^^
	xGKingdelete:	nice to see you around!

[Malice]

Originally Posted by Apth

Hey dudes and dudettes, wouldn't mind a hand with this one.

I've recently switched to Toss so there will probably be a decent few holes, but what I'm most interested in is my decision making.

I feel like I should have done something fundamentally different that game - there are probably a bunch of things I need to improve on (and feel free to point them out), but I'd like to know what decision I made or didn't make that resulted in that loss.

Cheers yo.

Gold Toss: http://www.sc2sea.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=796

Alright so considering you're in gold, I'll go over some real fundamental problems with your opening, building placement, and how you play in the EARLY stages of the game. Refining an opening is key to midgame success, and it doesn't take much effort at all when you compare it to playing during the mid and lategame.

So for each map, you want to be able to take a pretty fast nexus, and you're doing that fine, but your buildings after that, makes it look like you want to be aggressive. It is not necessary to create extra gateways, just to finish walling off, unless you are being pressured. That extra gateway you made, could have instead been a pylon, with a small gap to put a zealot there. This means that you're putting more money towards economy in the early game (where it's important), which can set you up to make more units later.



Pretty decent example of a walloff on condemned. Uses 1 cannon (put more down if aggression comes up, such as roach busts, or banes.) Uses 1 gateway in the wall, and it isn't a full wall. The only problems are the pylons in the wall, but with good early game scouting, you should be able to know if they're going banes of roaches. This means you're not making excessive gateways and cannons early in order to wall off, and using those minerals elsewhere. For other maps, refer to the forge fast expand section of this guide: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...d=383628#1.1.1, this guide has A LOT of good stuff in it you can use.

I did notice in this game you didn't actually scout for a third. Most of the time, zerg will take a third, and you'll be absolutely fine. But if they don't, and they're doing a much more aggressive strategy, you're going to have no idea it's coming, and you'll likely be put behind because of it. You always want to send a probe out to scout if a third is up by 4:30. Any later, and something fishy could be up. But anyway, with your robo opening, it's quite inefficient, because you're getting 3 extra gateways before you even put your robo down. Why do the gateway need to be so early? If you're not going to be aggressive with them, you may as well make your tech first, and get your tech out faster, rather than those simple gateways, which you can get later. Getting these gateways puts your robo significantly later, and means you're getting out your observer pretty late, and you can't scout as fast, as well as you'll have less immortals when it comes down to what this zerg's strategy was, and in this case, you need as many immortals as possible to be able to kill roaches effectively.

Your observer getting to your opponents base was extremely late, it got to his base at around 10:30, when it should be about a minute and a half earlier, this is due to that late robo, and this is where things start to get bad for you. What you're looking for with your observer, is when you send it straight to your opponents main, you find any kind of tech structure when the lair finishes. This means looking for the amount of gases your opponent is to take a read on how aggressive they will be. Your opponent sat on 4 gases for a while, the lack of gases at the third this late into the game is a telltale sign that the zerg is being aggressive with roaches, but if your observer actually makes it to the main on time, you should see that when the lair finishes, the roach warren will start doing a dance, meaning roach speed is coming, and the zerg wishes to be aggressive. In being able to analyse what your opponent is actually doing, you're halfway to fixing your problem.

Your next problem is actually making the correct decision on what units you're making to hold this off. This build is pretty allin nowadays, since if it doesn't work, protoss is free to tech pretty hard, or hit a stronger 3 base timing, so treat it that way. You don't want to be fighting it in a bad position ever, or you'll get owned. The key to beating this build is that as soon as you know it's coming, you just defend, make as many immortals as possible, have a good sentry count, and add stalkers gradually. Forcefields are your best friend in this situation, and without them positioned well, you simple die. This means getting in a good position where the zerg can't concave very well. This is why I do not like this map. The third is very open, and protoss do not like open thirds. Maps like cloud kingdom and daybreak have quite decent chokes at the thirds, and this is why they are great protoss maps. But as soon as the aggression came at you, you didn't handle it well. You attacked in a position where he had all the space in the world to move around and run away, and you have to put down an extremely large amount of forcefields just to not die, and kill a few roaches. Attacking as close as possible to your nexus ensures he needs to come at you. You are the defender, you are waiting for him to fight you, since he made all the units, it's up to him to use those units to do damage, you just need to sit back and not die. The advantage to this is that you use less forcefields, since it's much harder to get a concave for him if he's moving into your third, whereas the area you attacked at is quite circular, so it's extremely easy for the units to concave themselves. Your forcefields were very late also, this is an advantage also if you're sitting at your third waiting, what you can do, is have an observer sitting over the entrance to your third, and just wait and be ready to put forcefields down as soon as he attacks into you. Having late forcefields can cost you the game. It didn't make that much of a difference in this game, but what a good zerg will do, is they won't just a-move into you. They will move command ontop of your army if you're not looking, and then attack, so all the roaches can attack you right away, and do as much damage as possible.

So the keys to holding this sort of thing is by analysing what the zerg has, and concluding what the zerg is actually doing. Then making the right units, and positioning properly so the zerg can't just overrun you.

This is why you need a solid early game plan and build order, in this game, if your robo was ontime, and a bit earlier, you would have a much faster robo, and you would see what your opponent was doing much faster, which gives you more time to prepare for what's coming your way.

Sorry about the slabs of text, but I kinda get carried away when writing this sort of stuff. I hope it helps in some way at all, this build caused a lot of troubles a while ago, but most of us protosses know how to hold is properly by now, and hopefully you can soon too!

[Apth]

Originally Posted by Malice

Badass advice

Thanks for that man, much appreciated.

Don't remember why I put down some gates before my robo, but I agree that was probably a large part of the problem. I'm going to put it down to my brain doing something other than what I know I should be doing.

I'm not too worried about my late forcefields or positioning, that was a result of my crappy map awareness, which will get better over time. I was more concerned that I shouldn't even be trying to take a third - but it sounds like that was ok (if a bit late).

Scouting and Macro is all I'm working on at the moment, so it's good to hear the problems with that game are manageable.

Thanks again

[Ice714]

Terran < Gold

I am having great success against Terran and Protoss, my build orders are working and I have multiple options when it comes to game time.

When I play against Zerg I pretty much cannot defeat lings and banes with Bio, never.

I always lose and I keep practising it as much as possible because at the moment it's my only problem, I can beat Zerg with Mech most of the time but I am still working on that personally and I feel confident enough to fix that problem myself.

So

http://drop.sc/352236

What am I doing so wrong? I did mess my build a little I usually have quicker Helions to begin with and get my starport faster so I can drop and try to deny the 3rd.

Thanks!

[mGGReaver]

http://drop.sc/286121
I did drops , put him quite behind in upgrades for a long time, but i still lost. I need help on what am I doing wrong here. Thank you